New aparts for sale for 30 weeks average pay - will property go lower?

jam_mac_jam · 09-01-2012 12:11AM

gigino wrote: »

Yes you can buy a house for not much more than an apartment. However some people prefer an apartment as there is no grass to cut, its sometimes more central etc. Young people on the continent generally live in apartments. The question is ; will houses + apartments drop much further ? When I was small I vagely remember an elderly relative telling me how his house cost x times annual salary at the time.....

Its like people complaining about the price of a pint of guinness now. But you can say its e.g. 25 minutes work, same as it took to buy one when it cost 4 shillings.

If you don't understand that people in Longford dont want to live in appartments then I am not going to bother explaining to you why these are so cheap. You are either stupid or arguing for the sake of it, so I will have no more to say on the matter. Goodnight.

gigino · 09-01-2012 12:16AM

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

If you don't understand that people in Longford dont want to live in appartments ....

You think everyone can afford to live in Dallas style mansions in the countryside, and that apartments are too cheap at only 30 weeks gross pay ? Jasus, you'd think some young people or someone or elderly people downsizing or someone would be glad to live in a modern apartment. Whats the world coming to. Anyway, you can buy a house there nearly as cheap. Do you think houses will drop much further ...to say the equivalent of 5 months gross pay ?

Badgermonkey · 09-01-2012 12:17AM

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

You are either stupid or arguing for the sake of it, so I will have no more to say on the matter. Goodnight.

I can't help but read this in the voice of an upper-class Victorian gentleman.

Goodnight Sir indeed.

MagicSean · 09-01-2012 12:19AM

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

If you don't understand that people in Longford dont want to live in appartments then I am not going to bother explaining to you why these are so cheap. You are either stupid or arguing for the sake of it, so I will have no more to say on the matter. Goodnight.

He's arguing for the sake of it. It wouldn't be an unusual thing.

Vizzy · 09-01-2012 12:31AM

Gigino, its nice to see that you are back with such any intersting thread.
I would never have known that you could buy an apartment in the middle of nowhere,that nobody wants(hence the low price) if you hadn't highlighed for us here.
Except, of course,if we hadn't read it the last time you highlighted it,and the time before that.Oh yeah and the time before that as well.
Thanks.

Eleganza · 09-01-2012 12:56AM

the amount of legislation, rules and regulations involved with multi-unit developments have made apartment ownership impractical.
Most management companies are not in compliance with the Multi-Unit Development act of 2011 which means a Solicitor can't complete conveyancing on apartments.
The only way I can see apartment living working in future is if entire blocks are owned by property management/investment companies and every apartment occupier of a tenant of the management company with no owner occupiers present.
Irish apartments were built to be sold to owner occupiers and amateur landlords and are effectively worthless with all the new legislation in place.

gigino · 09-01-2012 01:10AM

Vizzy wrote: »

I would never have known that you could buy an apartment in the middle of nowhere

hold on a second ... are you saying various locations like Waterford city, Longford, Donegal, Louth, Laois , etc are all in the middle of nowhere ?
Do you think every property outside the Pale is in the middle of nowhere and you should be able to buy it for buttons ?

gigino · 09-01-2012 01:13AM

Eleganza wrote: »

Irish apartments were built to be sold to owner occupiers and amateur landlords and are effectively worthless with all the new legislation in place.

If that explains the low cost of apartments in this wonderful country, why are houses in some locations nearly as cheap ? You can buy houses for less than a years average salary in parts of the country now too : do you think thats ok and should / will property go cheaper ?

Eleganza · 09-01-2012 01:20AM

gigino wrote: »

If that explains the low cost of apartments in this wonderful country, why are houses in some locations nearly as cheap ? You can buy houses for less than a years average salary in parts of the country now too : do you think thats ok and should / will property go cheaper ?

Houses in same developments but not part of management companies are not nearly as cheap but are relatively cheap compared to similar houses urban areas where there is some demand.
900sq ft cardboard wall terraced and semi-d houses in remote rural locations have very little going for them but at least are saleable unlike many apartments which are unsaleable.

mickdw · 09-01-2012 01:28AM

Eleganza wrote: »

the amount of legislation, rules and regulations involved with multi-unit developments have made apartment ownership impractical.
Most management companies are not in compliance with the Multi-Unit Development act of 2011 which means a Solicitor can't complete conveyancing on apartments.
The only way I can see apartment living working in future is if entire blocks are owned by property management/investment companies and every apartment occupier of a tenant of the management company with no owner occupiers present.
Irish apartments were built to be sold to owner occupiers and amateur landlords and are effectively worthless with all the new legislation in place.

100% agree with all that.

gigino · 09-01-2012 01:31AM

Eleganza wrote: »

........unlike many apartments which are unsaleable.

Eleganza wrote: »

the amount of legislation, rules and regulations involved with multi-unit developments have made apartment ownership impractical.

Eleganza wrote: »

Irish apartments were built to be sold to owner occupiers and amateur landlords and are effectively worthless with all the new legislation in place.

so the government is to blame if people cannot sell their apartments ?

Surely one of the duties of a government is to enable the transfer of property ownership to take place ?

Is it right that successive Irish governments stood over and approved a system, indeed gave tax incentives for property to be sold to unsuspecting innocent people say 5 years ago ....who find their investments " effectively worthless with all the new legislation in place" ? Suppose some of these apartments now need to be sold due to relocation of work, emigration or bereavement ? Has any other government in the world messed up to the degree that apartments are now only worth 30 weeks gross average public sector pay ?

westendgirlie · 09-01-2012 01:41AM

Apartments outside of cities were built, and purchased for one reason only - to rent out.

Take that apartment in Bundoran. It's only use is as a seasonal holiday rental. Trust me on that as I know exactly where it's located. So why is the vendor selling it so cheaply? Not getting the necessary bookings for the season?

There are hundreds of these apartments and honestly, if you are looking for a bargain, spend a few quid more and get yourself a semi, with a garden.

Eleganza · 09-01-2012 01:45AM

Are you looking for an argument from me?
I'm just stating facts and speaking as someone who sold an apartment in November experiencing horrific problems with conveyancing along the way.
I have nothing further to add to the thread and I'm going to bed now.

Degsy · 09-01-2012 01:46PM

Eleganza wrote: »

Are you looking for an argument from me?
I'm just stating facts and speaking as someone who sold an apartment in November experiencing horrific problems with conveyancing along the way.
I have nothing further to add to the thread and I'm going to bed now.

Good night to you Sir..and a penny'orth of balderdash to that rapscallion.

gigino · 09-01-2012 02:08PM

Eleganza wrote: »

I'm just stating facts and speaking as someone who sold an apartment in November experiencing horrific problems with conveyancing along the way.

Not all apartments which are sold "experience horrific problems with conveyancing along the way." Once management company fees have been paid to date it should be easy enough, it certainly was in the case of an apartment which I know of which changed hands also in 2011. Anyway, different folk, different experiences. The point is some new apartments are for sale now for only € 29,000. The sellers solicitor says there are no special complications with conveyancing. If we got 29,000 people on boards.ie to chip in a euro each to buy it we could find out ...the first boards apartment

.

Maybe we should hold on a bit ....if, as you say, " Irish apartments were built to be sold to owner occupiers and amateur landlords and are effectively worthless ", maybe potential buyers should wait until they are maybe a months wages ( or less ) rather than 7 or 8 ?

Imagine coming home one night drunk and telling the other half you squandered the months pay in impulse buy of an apartment ?

I remember an old timer on the radio once saying how his house cost 2000 pounds, and the commentator said that was cheap, but your man said it was the equivalent of 5 years work at the time.

Degsy · 09-01-2012 02:32PM

Its worth pointing out that nearly all apartments are leasehold interests as opposed to freehold.

That basically means that you never really own them,merely have title to a 99 year lease or something along those lines..so as an investment they are worse than useless and built so poorely they're also unsuitable for raising a family.

Apartments were yet another Govt and media-sponsored conjob of the Celtic Tiger.

smash · 09-01-2012 02:35PM

Could you even build an apartment for 30k? I'd say they're selling at a loss.

pickarooney · 09-01-2012 02:39PM

kowloon wrote: »

Let's turn a thread about apartments into another public sector vs. private sector ****about .

Yeah, cause that was in no way the intention of the OP.

Vizzy · 09-01-2012 02:47PM

gigino wrote: »

hold on a second ... are you saying various locations like Waterford city, Longford, Donegal, Louth, Laois , etc are all in the middle of nowhere ?
Do you think every property outside the Pale is in the middle of nowhere and you should be able to buy it for buttons ?

No I'm not( in fact I'm one of the ones whio lives outside the Pale)

Simple lesson in economics though,Supply and demand i.e.if they are/were required they would be bought in a second at those prices.
A public servant can,by your logic,buy these apartments in 30 weeks.
Also by your logic,and using CSO figures,any private sector worker could buy them outrigtht in about 12 months.
I'm frankly amazed that if they are as centrally located as you say and are as good value as you say that Private Sector developrs aren't tripping over one another to snap these up.
BTW,you work in the PS,I assume you'll be buying 3 or 4 and be in the clear,debtwise,in a maximum of 2.5 years

Eleganza · 09-01-2012 03:07PM

gigino wrote: »

Not all apartments which are sold "experience horrific problems with conveyancing along the way." Once management company fees have been paid to date it should be easy enough, it certainly was in the case of an apartment which I know of which changed hands also in 2011. Anyway, different folk, different experiences.

My management company was extant and managing the apartment block professionally but that still didn't prevent issues cropping up with title on public spaces. Just because a sale completed doesn't mean that the solicitor acting on behalf of the purchaser processed the sale correctly and there may be a whole world of trouble waiting for the purchaser a couple of years down the line.
Rule of Thumb: Apartment ownership in Ireland - best avoided.

msg11 · 09-01-2012 03:24PM

I can't even rent on my salary let alone buy a house!

With most people my age in part time employment (age 18-23) house prices will have to come down lower, cause there is no way in hell people my age in Dublin will be able to afford a house on salary's less than 13,000 a year and still getting taxed and USC'ed. I pray every night that one day I will be handed a full time contract with my employer but at the moment it's very unlikely.

ScumLord · 09-01-2012 03:27PM

smash wrote: »

Could you even build an apartment for 30k? I'd say they're selling at a loss.

You don't build an apartment though you build a building full of apartments. As a whole Irish apartments are terrible, we threw up the bare minimum and most I've seen are little better than nice looking projects and they're all a few tenets away from being slums.

Terrible planning, poorly built and about as future proof as betamax. They should all be torn down and replaced with modern community orientated buildings.

frank reynolds · 09-01-2012 03:30PM

the average PS wage is NOT that. it's more like €30K per year. sickening to see so many ppl brainwashed by the media to think we're all lording it up with massive wages.

Degsy · 09-01-2012 03:32PM

Just found out from a friend that those apartments in longford for 30k were originally priced at over 200k..other developments in the area sold off the plans for up to 300k!!

gigino · 09-01-2012 05:59PM

frank reynolds wrote: »

the average PS wage is NOT that.

according to the governments own statistics service ( cso ) it is, and I gave the very detailed link earlier. They should know.

Degsy wrote: »

That basically means that you never really own them,merely have title to a 99 year lease or something along those lines..so as an investment they are worse than useless and built so poorely they're also unsuitable for raising a family.

Its usually a 999 year lease rather than 99 year....thats practically the same as freehold as who cares what the owner does with it in 999 years time ( or 979 years or whatever ).

Yes, a 2 bedroom apartment is unsuitable for raising a family. However , many young people - and some old people downsizing - on the continent seem to live in apartments without problems.

Degsy · 09-01-2012 06:28PM

gigino wrote: »

. However , many young people - and some old people downsizing - on the continent seem to live in apartments without problems.

Apartments that are properly built and with adequate space etc then maybe otherwise look at the "apartments" on the outskirts of french cities or the former eastern block countries...cess pits of crime and misery.

ScumLord · 09-01-2012 06:35PM

Degsy wrote: »

Apartments that are properly built and with adequate space etc then maybe otherwise look at the "apartments" on the outskirts of french cities or the former eastern block countries...cess pits of crime and misery.

I was in a soviet era town that was attached to a metalworks. While it's depressingly dreary in it's layout it's far from a cess pit of crime and misery, unless your a gypsy, they treat those people literally like rats.

Toby Take a Bow · 09-01-2012 06:45PM

gigino wrote: »

according to the governments own statistics service ( cso ) it is, and I gave the very detailed link earlier. They should know.

Its usually a 999 year lease rather than 99 year....thats practically the same as freehold as who cares what the owner does with it in 999 years time ( or 979 years or whatever ).

Yes, a 2 bedroom apartment is unsuitable for raising a family. However , many young people - and some old people downsizing - on the continent seem to live in apartments without problems.

Any of the apartments I have seen on the continent are beyond amazing, and usually fairly cheap. In Spain (AFAIK) the conditions are favourable towards people renting, ie, the law is often on your side with regard to actually living in decent, affordable accommodation.

Conversely, any of the apartments I've lived in in Dublin (and those of my friends I've seen) have been fairly depressing places: shoddily built with a 'management' company that don't seem to know the meaning of the word management.

Degsy · 09-01-2012 06:51PM

ScumLord wrote: »

unless your a gypsy, they treat those people literally like rats.

They're not known for thier industrious lifestyle in fairness.

gigino · 09-01-2012 11:33PM

Toby Take a Bow wrote: »

Any of the apartments I have seen on the continent are beyond amazing, and usually fairly cheap.

are they as cheap as some of the ones here, only 30 weeks wages ?

I think on the continent apartments usually cost the equivalent of a number of years average public service wage, and are often older than apartments here. Perhaps building regulations should have been better here, but who set and enforced the building regs ?

In terms of peoples earning ability, what do you think is a sustainable or fair price for an apartment ?

New aparts for sale for 30 weeks average pay - will property go lower?

Comments