New aparts for sale for 30 weeks average pay - will property go lower?

gigino

Will property fall further, thats the question on many peoples minds. How affordible is property - in terms of peoples earnings. If you want to compare wages to property prices in Ireland then lets choose average public sector salary which is € 48,000 per year according to the CSO. www.cso.ie We could choose average private sector salary but statistics on that may be less reliable. Now lets look at what you can buy new 2 bedroom apartments for in ordinary, middle Ireland. You can get them for not just less than 48k, not just less than 38k but less than 30k even.
Here is a 2 bedroom apartment in " middle Ireland" for 29k ( if you want it, offer 25 or 26k - that may buy it ! )
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=631593

Elsewhere in the country, from Donegal to Louth to Waterford city, property can also be got for less than a years salary:
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=614632
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=613282
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=630903
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=629156
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=629383
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=627468


Now, what other country in the world could you buy a new 2-bedroom apartment, built to Irish government standards, for as little as 7 or 8 months ( not years ) average public sector salary ? This suggests to me that property prices are already very low. Property is already buttons in many areas of this country. It cannot fall much more in many areas surely ? If it does, will you see an apartment for sale for only 2 or 3 months wages ?
Will this be the year property bounces back to 2 or 3 years salary ? Historically you would think property should cost at least that anyway ?

noxqs

guilt to Irish government standards

Freudian slip? We all know the celtic tiger appartments are ****e. Look no further then Priory Hall etc.

mikemac1

gigino wrote: »

guilt to Irish government standards,

As we've seen in Priory Hall and the news about water pipes freezing last winter and the pyrtite in Baldolye and a lot of other examples, standards don't mean a lot in this country

Do you mean to type guilt on some unconscious level?


Edit, much the same post above

snubbleste

Thread should read:
Average public sector pay in Ireland buys you a flat in 30 weeks.

Eric Cartman

yeah, aside from the last one in waterford city the others are of utterly no value to anybody, these are the prices we should be seeing for apartments just outside the m50 belt, but get anywhere close to dublin and those prices triple

mikemac1

Anyway gigino, going by your hotel thread we Irish are lazy and not fit to hold down a job and pay a mortgage

woodoo

A retired guard could buy one gigino

gigino

mikemac1 wrote: »

Anyway gigino, going by your hotel thread we Irish are lazy and not fit to hold down a job and pay a mortgage

Most Irish people i know are not lazy and do hold hold jobs and many pay mortgages. Please keep on thread.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

yeah, aside from the last one in waterford city the others are of utterly no value to anybody, these are the prices we should be seeing for apartments just outside the m50 belt

Most of the people in the country live outside the M50 belt. Where do you think they should live ?

Benny_Cake

gigino wrote: »

Most of the people in the country live outside the M50 belt. Where do you think they should live ?

Well, they'll probably want to live in houses for a start, none of those apartments look too appealing to me. Apartment living is suited to large cities, but I don't see the appeal for someone in Longford or Manorhamilton.

Eric Cartman

gigino wrote: »

Most of the people in the country live outside the M50 belt. Where do you think they should live ?

yes but 2 bed apartments suit a limited range of people, mostly students, young professionals and childless couples , students dont buy houses/apartments , so that leaves the last 2

useless as a rental property except the last one as stated above, and to buy youd have to be mad , theres little to no public transport around them, shops, nightclubs and other services are far away, and theyre outside of dublin and cork - our two major cities

K-9

gigino wrote: »

Elsewhere in the country, from Donegal to Louth to Waterford city, property can also be got for less than a years salary:
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=614632
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=613282
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=630903
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=629156
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=629383
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=627468

That one in Killybegs is probably about its value, needs doing up. The Bundoran apartment might offer a return during the Summer but there could well be an over supply so you might only get a couple of months rent.

As for prices, it's back to location, location, location again!

noxqs

In all seriousness however, there are plenty of good economic analysis papers/blogs out there which has a contrarian view to your simplistic: "surely it can't drop lower, joe".

I find them more compelling.

I was around discussing stocks in 1999-<present> and the amount of people who kept saying "surely NASDAQ can't drop lower!" and a decade later we're still 50% off - and in real terms post-inflation, much much much lower.

So yes - any asset which has been in a bubble can deflate beyond what may 'seem logical' to someone who has been or are invested in the market. Irish property prices since 1996 has been completely removed from the underlying economic fundamentals and they will keep crashing. See: Japan asset bubble.

The_Thing

I think I'll buy one with next week's wages.

KindOfIrish

gigino wrote: »

Will property fall further, thats the question on many peoples minds. How affordible is property - in terms of peoples earnings. If you want to compare wages to property prices in Ireland then lets choose average public sector salary which is € 48,000 per year according to the CSO. www.cso.ie

I'm not sure about property, but public sector pay will fall. I work on 2 privat jobs for 60 hours a week and my pay per annum is less than 48,000

doulikeit

That can't be right average pub sec wage€ 48 000

Stinicker

gigino wrote: »

Will property fall further, thats the question on many peoples minds. How affordible is property - in terms of peoples earnings. If you want to compare wages to property prices in Ireland then lets choose average public sector salary which is € 48,000 per year according to the CSO. www.cso.ie We could choose average private sector salary but statistics on that may be less reliable. Now lets look at what you can buy new 2 bedroom apartments for in ordinary, middle Ireland. You can get them for not just less than 48k, not just less than 38k but less than 30k even.
Here is a 2 bedroom apartment in " middle Ireland" for 29k ( if you want it, offer 25 or 26k - that may buy it ! )
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=631593

Elsewhere in the country, from Donegal to Louth to Waterford city, property can also be got for less than a years salary:
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=614632
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=613282
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=630903
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=629156
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=629383
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=627468


Now, what other country in the world could you buy a new 2-bedroom apartment, guilt to Irish government standards, for as little as 7 or 8 months ( not years ) average public sector salary ? This suggests to me that property prices are already very low. Property is already buttons in many areas of this country. It cannot fall much more in many areas surely ? If it does, will you see an apartment for sale for only 2 or 3 months wages ?
Will this be the year property bounces back to 2 or 3 years salary ? Historically you would think property should cost at least that anyway ?

Public sector wages need to be cut and cut sharply.

theteal

If the Bundoran one was €28k, i'd honestly consider it as a holiday home. You'd have no bother renting that out for surf weekends at any stage of the year

gigino

Benny_Cake wrote: »

Well, they'll probably want to live in houses for a start, none of those apartments look too appealing to me.

One has a great view of the Atlantic.

Benny_Cake wrote: »

Apartment living is suited to large cities, but I don't see the appeal for someone in Longford or Manorhamilton.

One of the properties listed above was a 3 Bedroom Duplex. There are 3 bedroom hooses for sale on daft.ie for less than a years wages too. Besides, on the continent many people seem to live in apartments ?

Benny_Cake

gigino wrote: »

One of the properties listed above was a 3 Bedroom Duplex. There are 3 bedroom hooses for sale on daft.ie for less than a years wages too. Besides, on the continent many people seem to live in apartments ?

I'm not saying that no one would be interested in them, just that in rural Ireland it can be hard enough to convince people to live in housing estates, never mind apartments. Don't forget that house prices will have dropped too.

Yakult

They look fairly depressing tbh.

48k a year average? What in the name of sweet fuk.

Doc Ruby

You'd probably end up paying over a grand a year for them in management fees and charges though.

washman3

the prices are low cause there are no buyers out there now willing to buy properties like these. most potential buyers are waiting on to see what happens and hoping to buy a house for these prices in the next few years.
in 2005/6 a builder told me that houses/apts would be sold for the price of a 4x4 within 10yrs. he could see what was happening could'nt possibly be sustained. imagine that, a builder.!!!

Liam Byrne

snubbleste wrote: »

Thread should read:
Average public sector pay in Ireland buys you a flat in 30 weeks.

That's the kind of thinking that created this mess, because it assumes that you don't need to eat, drink, travel to work, rent your current home, pay your phone bill, heat and light your current home, etc, etc.

Even being damn frugal it would take 4 times that to buy the flat.

Still a reasonable price for a change, and it's good to see some reality kick into the market, but manipulated figures, headlines and thread titles like the above are what created the frenzy - sure the government definition of "disposable income" even ignores the most basic living expenses.

noxqs

Wait for the price database to go online - then wait a few months and check out the _real_ prices stuff sells for. With no transparency in the market and so much uncertainty - why bother now? It's not like prices will start climbing for years anyways.

There's nothing to loose for waiting longer.

Crazy Horse 6

doulikeit wrote: »

That can't be right average pub sec wage€ 48 000

Thats what i thought. Surely thats a misprint.

Crazy Horse 6

washman3 wrote: »

the prices are low cause there are no buyers out there now willing to buy properties like these. most potential buyers are waiting on to see what happens and hoping to buy a house for these prices in the next few years.
in 2005/6 a builder told me that houses/apts would be sold for the price of a 4x4 within 10yrs. he could see what was happening could'nt possibly be sustained. imagine that, a builder.!!!

Yeap he was'nt far off tbh. When we see the average price of a house in the Dublin area fall to in and around 80k for an average three bed we will be near enough to rock bottom. Hell of a lot of delusion out in the market still.

kowloon

Let's turn a thread about apartments into another public sector vs. private sector ****about .

Kristopherus

Crazy Horse 6 wrote: »

Thats what i thought. Surely thats a misprint.

Those were 2008 figures. Knock 15% off and it will be fairly accurate.

JONJO THE MISER

Some of ye guys have obviously never been in the states, in places like Texas mansions can be had for 250k and most 4 bed homes cost 90k at most.

ShamoBuc

Crazy Horse 6 wrote: »

Thats what i thought. Surely thats a misprint.

There are alot of 'fat cats' in the public sector on serious wages - if the top 5% of the PS were left out I'm sure it would be a different story.
But that wouldn't be any good for a sensationalistic headline would it. Also there were Pay cuts aswell!

Also there are alot of deductions on that figure......tax, universal social charge, pension deductions, pension levy etc. I reckon a good 55-60% of that 48k would be gone, leaving about 20k -23k disposable income for a years work.
Gross figures for wages never tell a true story.

noxqs

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

Some of ye guys have obviously never been in the states, in places like Texas mansions can be had for 250k and most 4 bed homes cost 90k at most.

Ahh shure haven't ye heard? Ireland is different!

*sarcasm*

Logical Fallacy

Property prices won't bounce back for a while thankfully.

People can't afford heavy mortgages, banks can't run the risk and no one is building houses and driving demand up anymore.

Lesson learned? Nope. But it will be about 5 years before people start making the same mistakes again.

washman3

noxqs wrote: »

Ahh shure haven't ye heard? Ireland is different!

*sarcasm*

yip, exactly. "we are the gateway to Europe"
"we have a talented/educated workforce"
"we are english speaking"

and any other lines of bulls##t we want to believe....;)

jam_mac_jam

Yes we have hit the bottom, time to buy because completely worthless properties are cheap.

Toby Take a Bow

kowloon wrote: »

Let's turn a thread about apartments into another public sector vs. private sector ****about .

AKA a 'gigino' thread.

gigino

Kristopherus wrote: »

Those were 2008 figures. Knock 15% off and it will be fairly accurate.

doulikeit wrote: »

That can't be right average pub sec wage€ 48 000

It was over 49,000, its between 47 and 48k now, according to the latest government statistics ( they should know ).
http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublications/documents/earnings/2011/earnlabcosts_q32011.pdf

According to the cso, average hours worked in the public service is 31.8 hours per week, and average weekly pay is € 906.81 Thats for quarter 3, 2011, the latest statistics available.

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

Some of ye guys have obviously never been in the states, in places like Texas mansions can be had for 250k and most 4 bed homes cost 90k at most.

I've never been to Texas. Its a big place I believe. Would those properties @ 90k + 250 in Texas be 50 miles from civiliisation or in sizeable towns ? Any what are wages like in Texas ? Do people there get an average of the equivalent of 30 euro an hour ( plus pension when they retire of half finishing wage and 18 months tax free lump sum )? There are new 4 bedroom houses being sold in some parts of Ireland for 60k, I wonder how the Texas ones @ 90k compare to them ?

jam_mac_jam

You do know what an average is dont you? You do know that most people in the public service earn nothing like this?

gerryo777

Kristopherus wrote: »

Those were 2008 figures. Knock 15% off and it will be fairly accurate.

Doubt that, sure there's been 3 if not 4 increments (pay rises to you and me) since..

Degsy

gigino wrote: »

It was over 49,000, its between 47 and 48k now, according to the latest government statistics ( they should know ).
http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublications/documents/earnings/2011/earnlabcosts_q32011.pdf

According to the cso, average hours worked in the public service is 31.8 hors per week, and average weekly pay is € 906.81 Thats for quarter 3, 2011, the latest statistics available.


I've never been to Texas. Its a big place I believe. Would those properties @ 90k + 250 in Texas be 50 miles from civiliisation or in sizeable towns ? Any what are wages like in Texas ?

You dont actually have a job do you?

ShamoBuc

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

You do know what an average is dont you? You do know that most people in the public service earn nothing like this?

Sssshhhhhhh....doesn't suit his arguement.

gigino

noxqs wrote: »

Wait for the price database to go online - then wait a few months and check out the _real_ prices stuff sells for. With no transparency in the market and so much uncertainty - why bother now? It's not like prices will start climbing for years anyways.

There's nothing to loose for waiting longer.

True enough I suppose. I wonder is 29k the lowest price a modern 2-bedroom apartment is advertised for in Ireland ? Anyone know of new apartments which sold for less ?

Degsy

Here's a gaff in Dublin for 40k!!

Tusky

Rent prices don't seem to have come down much around Dublin. I've been looking for a 3 or 4 bed house close to city centre for 400 per person (1,200-1,600) and haven't been able to find anywhere nice.

MagicSean

Wait a minute. Are you telling me that if don't pay any bills or taxes for the next 30 weeks i can own my very own piece of **** in the middle of nowhere?

Where do I sign up?

CricketDude

KindOfIrish wrote: »

I'm not sure about property, but public sector pay will fall. I work on 2 privat jobs for 60 hours a week and my pay per annum is less than 48,000

Jaysus if I worked 60 hours a week id be expecting €150,000 a year at least.

Sky King

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

You do know what an average is dont you? You do know that most people in the public service earn nothing like this?

That's why for skewed distributions such as civil service pay, the median is often a more accurate estimator of what an 'average joe' gets because the high earners skew the distribution way out of proportion.

For example, nine low deck civil servants get in the reigon of 30 k a year, their boss (head of coillte) gets 400k.

This ten group of people has an average pay of 43k a year, clearly not representative of all the joes at the bottom of the ladder.

ronjo

Sky King wrote: »

That's why for skewed distributions such as civil service pay, the median is often a more accurate estimator of what an 'average joe' gets because the high earners skew the distribution way out of proportion.

For example, nine low deck civil servants get in the reigon of 30 k a year, their boss (head of coillte) gets 400k.

This ten group of people has an average pay of 43k a year, clearly not representative of all the joes at the bottom of the ladder.

That is truly awful maths

Sky King

Begod you;re right, it's wrong, but my point is still right. RIGHT?

what is it 67K average?

ronjo

Yep, I think its 67k

Nice pay for the bossman there.

bordsie

that's fine if you want to buy a place where your neighbours are all toothless simpletons with eyebrows on their cheeks. :rolleyes: