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Eircom DSL rollout. Delayed and no longer a priority.

  • 07-12-2011 1:38pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 206 ✭✭


    Why are Eircom refusing to say which Exchanges, if any will be enabled for basic DSL in the future. For many of those living in the affected areas who have been waiting many years for 1MB broadband this is very frustrating. On the one hand we hear of the occasional enabling of an Exchange such as the Naul in Dublin so it seems the rollout has not been completely abandoned but why can't you provide more certainty for those served by non DSL enabled Exchanges. 

    The following are the "facts" from what I can gather. If there is any inaccuracy in the following I assume an Eircom rep will point it out. And please don't confuse the issue by bringing in the NGB upgrading of already enabled Exchanges. 

    1. Eircom has shut down it's broadband rollout website broadbandatoz.ie

    2 Eircom has not enabled many Exchanges that it promised in 2007 would be enabled by 2009. 

    3 Eircom has reneged on its promise to "take all orders" in the five major urban areas. The breaking of this promise is a clear indication that Eircom now has no intention of DSL enabling all Exchanges in the major cities. 

    4 Over 200 Exchanges have not been DSL enabled. 


«13

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 682 ✭✭✭kevinmcc


    And eircom being eircom won't even take the time to respond to the valid points which you made OP. I'd also like to know how they can justify a price of 25.36EUR per month for basic line rental before you even make a call. And its the same amount even if you are connected on a line which does not have a DSL enabled exchange. To compare in Northern Ireland you can get line rental for 10GBP a month from BT if you pay the year upfront. The price difference is shocking and unjustified. No wonder eircom are billions in debt, we've got rid of our landline and will not give eircom a cent until they upgrade our exchange.


  • Registered Users Posts: 580 ✭✭✭regress


    What is the point of an Eircom forum if reps only answer queries that suit them and refuse to give info on legitimate questions relating to the effective abandonment of DSL rollout despite promises and assurances that Eircom gave to govt. Simple questions that should have straightforward answers

    - Which Exchanges, if any do Eircom plan to enable and a rough timetable?

    - How many, if any of the Exchanges that Eircom promised to enable by 2009 will be enabled in the future?

    - Do Eircom have any plans to enable any more Exchanges in the cities?

    - Admittance that Eircom is now refusing to honour it's Take all orders promise.


  • Registered Users Posts: 580 ✭✭✭regress


    My understanding is that Eircom has approx 1200 Exchanges and that there were about 300 or 25% left to be enabled  before the decision was taken to wind down the rollout. 

    There are about 30 Exchanges left on list of those that Eircom promised to enable by 2009. I assume that it will take another few years at least to complete this program

    I also assume that the 250+ Exchanges that are not on this list now have little hope of ever being DSL enabled as the Exchanges on the "enabled by 2009" list will take priority. 


  • Registered Users Posts: 580 ✭✭✭regress


    Any chance you could provide official statement on status od DSL roll out. Can you confirm that it has been effectively suspended because of Eircoms upcoming bankruptcy.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    regress wrote: »
    There are about 30 Exchanges left on list of those that Eircom promised to enable by 2009. I assume that it will take another few years at least to complete this program

    This would be the early April 2007 list...which is not yet completed. I would say it is more like 15 exchanges now Regress. 2 of them were done recently, The Naul and Leitrim Village. One even got NGN.

    It does look like we will not see this program finished in April 2012...5 years after eircom announced them and 2.5 years after they should all have been done.

    Here is a list. I compiled it when eircom shut down their BroadbandatoZ site and hoped we would not notice :( 3 or 4 exchanges were done thereafter.

    Exchanges by County and province.

    Connacht

    Roscommon:

    Ballyforan

    Leitrim:

    Carrigallen
    Cloone

    Sligo

    Sligo is complete.

    Galway

    Kilrickle

    Mayo

    Mayo is complete.

    Abandoned Connacht = 4

    ULSTER

    Donegal

    St. Johnston

    Monaghan

    Annyalla

    Cavan

    Cavan is complete

    Abandoned Ulster = 2


    MUNSTER

    Cork

    Ballydesmond
    Knocknagree
    Knockraha

    Kerry

    Kerry is complete

    Waterford

    Ballymacarbry

    Tipperary

    Ballyporeen

    Limerick

    Bruree

    Abandoned Munster = 6

    Leinster

    Westmeath

    Westmeath is complete

    Longford

    Longford is complete

    Louth

    Louth is complete

    Meath

    Meath is complete

    Offaly

    Offaly is complete

    Laois

    Laois is complete

    Kilkenny

    Oldtown
    Coon

    Dublin

    Dublin is complete

    Kildare

    Calverstown

    Wicklow

    Wicklow is complete

    Wexford

    Wexford is complete

    Abandoned Leinster = 3

    Abandoned Nationwide = 15


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  • Registered Users Posts: 580 ✭✭✭regress


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    This would be the early April 2007 list...which is not yet completed. I would say it is more like 15 exchanges now Regress. 2 of them were done recently.

    [/SIZE][/B]

    What is Eircoms current timetable for enabling the Exchanges on the 2007 list?


    If any Exchanges are to be DSL enabled in the future will those on the 2007 list take priority

    Will any of the hundreds of Exchanges not on the 2007 list ever be enabled?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    regress wrote: »
    What is Eircoms current timetable for enabling the Exchanges on the 2007 list?
    None. More than enough money was spent on financial advisors in 2011 to finish the lot of them with fibre to the home (nearly).
    If any Exchanges are to be DSL enabled in the future will those on the 2007 list take priority
    Absolutely not, installing FTTx takes priority now. eircom sincerely hope that the country folks are understanding of the fact that they don't matter.
    Will any of the hundreds of Exchanges not on the 2007 list ever be enabled?
    Very few. From what I can make out there are 272 exchanges with no DSL today out of around 1216 .


  • Registered Users Posts: 580 ✭✭✭regress


    http://www.finfacts.ie/irishfinancenews/article_1016285.shtml


    Irish Rural Link (IRL) - told Oireachtas Committee on Communications, Energy and Natural Resources that the lack of broadband in much of the country is a brake on indigenous entrepreneurship and jeopardises our economic recovery. IRL said options including the renationalisation of the former State teloco Eircom, should be considered.
    “Eircom’s incumbent position means the country is relying on them to provide the broadband infrastructure we require and the company has made it clear it simply cannot afford the investment. Without it tens of thousands or homes and business people will never be able to access the high quality broadband required and will be condemned to the digital dark ages for a generation. There must be a proper debate on the future of Eircom.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,802 ✭✭✭horse7


    does anyone read the papers,eircom is about to go into liquidation,all stt directors have resigned from the board.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    They have plenty of cash at hand ( €300M) to finish the 2007 program.....sure they spent as much sponsoring the GAA in 2011 ALONE as it would take to upgrade the remaining exchanges in that program.

    Bankrupt or not they will spend as much again next year.!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 580 ✭✭✭regress


    Interesting to look at the archives and see how Eircom and the govt blatantly lied about the rollout of DSL. It seems like the rollout has now been effectively abandoned even though nearly 300 Exchanges were not enabled. Many in urban centres.

    The govt believing Eircoms assurances that basic 1MB DSL would be rolled out to the cities is anagoulous to Biffo believing Seanies assurances on the golf course that Anglo was solvent.

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/eircom-stalls-on-broadband-rollout-1669857.html

    The Government promised last night that the nationwide rollout of current broadband would be unaffected by Eircom's problems
    A spokesperson for the Communications Department said: "Eircom's plans are entirely separate from the National Broadband Scheme and that promise will be kept."
    That scheme will provide remote areas with broadband via slower and less reliable wireless connections.
    Communications Minister Eamon Ryan announced in January that every home in the country would have access to high-speed internet by September 2010 under the National Broadband Scheme.
    Difficulties

    While Eircom predicted there would be nationwide availability of broadband at speeds ranging from 1  megabits per second by 2011, it accepted that a "residual" part of rural Ireland would have to depend on wireless networks. 
    Committee members yesterday claimed the company was "saddled" with enormous debt, but Eircom countered that its debt was "manageable" and that it was completing a €1bn investment programme to upgrade telephone exchanges.


  • Registered Users Posts: 580 ✭✭✭regress


    Even though little chance of an answer I'll ask the question again.

    Does Eircom have any plans to rollout DSL availability in the major cities?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    The 'all orders taken' program of 2007 did not promise Universal ADSL or fibre...bless... in the 5 big cities but proposed to use Wimax as well as ADSL. Sadly the Wimax gear that was installed is all shut down and the spectrum was returned to Comreg at the end of 2011.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,320 ✭✭✭roast


    No response from the Eircom reps whatsoever?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,138 ✭✭✭eircom: Ant


    regress wrote: »
    Even though little chance of an answer I'll ask the question again.

    Does Eircom have any plans to rollout DSL availability in the major cities?

    Thank you for your post.

    In answer to your query, eircom have and are currently involved in a nationwide roll out of advanced NGN (next generation networks) nationwide; including all cites.

    If you need further information on NGB and broadband availability, please see www.ngb.ie or contact Broadband Sales direct - freefone 1800503303.

    Best wishes,
    Ant


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Ant, the queries largely involve 2 issues.

    1. Completion of the last generation broadband rollout ( announced April 2007) not the next generation broadband program. It is not unreasonable to expect completion by April 2012...5 years later. Subsumation of last generation into next generation is of course entirely acceptable.

    2. The status of the 2007 "Take All Orders" program in 2012. Is it abandoned in Dublin Cork Limerick Galway and Waterford which is where eircom gave that committment to all of their customers.

    finally to NGB

    3. Eircom announced the NGB program sould be complete, rolled out to over 240 exchanges by end 2011. Announcement

    a) How many exchanges are complete as of 6 January 2012.
    b) How many are programmed to be completed after 6 January 2012
    c) By the end of what quarter and in what year will these remaining exchanges be completed.

    Thanks.


  • Registered Users Posts: 580 ✭✭✭regress


    MRBEAVER wrote: »
    Why are Eircom refusing to say which Exchanges, if any will be enabled for basic DSL in the future.
    MRBEAVER wrote: »
    please don't confuse the issue by bringing in the NGB upgrading of already enabled Exchanges.
    kevinmcc wrote: »
    eircom being eircom won't even take the time to respond
    regress wrote: »
    What is the point of an Eircom forum if reps only answer queries that suit them and refuse to give info on legitimate questions

    - Which Exchanges, if any do Eircom plan to enable and a rough timetable?

    - How many, if any of the Exchanges that Eircom promised to enable by 2009 will be enabled in the future?

    - Do Eircom have any plans to enable any more Exchanges in the cities?

    - Admittance that Eircom is now refusing to honour it's Take all orders promise.
    regress wrote: »
    Any chance you could provide official statement on status od DSL roll out. .

    regress wrote: »
    Even though little chance of an answer I'll ask the question again.

    Does Eircom have any plans to rollout DSL availability in the major cities?
    roast wrote: »
    No response from the Eircom reps whatsoever?

    In answer to your query, eircom have and are currently involved in a nationwide roll out of advanced NGN (next generation networks) nationwide; including all cites.

    Shockingly insulting response but predictable. After weeks of refusing to respond Eircom provides a reply that answers none of the questions asked and adresses none of the issues. This thread relates to DSL enabling Exchanges. It has nothing whatsover to do with NGB which is comprehensively discussed in multiple other threads . None of the previous posts asked about NGB so using it as a response in very unprofessional and partronising.


  • Registered Users Posts: 580 ✭✭✭regress


    MRBEAVER wrote: »
    Why are Eircom refusing to say which Exchanges, if any will be enabled for basic DSL in the future.

    please don't confuse the issue by bringing in the NGB upgrading of already enabled Exchanges.

    1. Eircom has shut down it's broadband rollout website broadbandatoz.ie



    If you need further information on NGB and broadband availability, please see www.ngb.ie

    Best wishes,
    Ant

    The NGB site provides information on NGB. I can find no information on in relating to whether any of the hundreds of non enabled Exchanges will be DSL enabled in the future.

    Please stop talking about NGB or do so on another thread. It has no relation to the subject matter of this thread. If you want to continue to refuse to address any of the issues raised just continue your silence.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,320 ✭✭✭roast


    regress wrote: »
    Shockingly insulting response but predictable. After weeks of refusing to respond Eircom provides a reply that answers none of the questions asked and adresses none of the issues. This thread relates to DSL enabling Exchanges. It has nothing whatsover to do with NGB which is comprehensively discussed in multiple other threads . None of the previous posts asked about NGB so using it as a response in very unprofessional and partronising.

    I had a feeling it was going to be a copy-paste response.:rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 580 ✭✭✭regress


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    . Subsumation of last generation into next generation is of course entirely acceptable
    .

    Totally acceptable but I think Ant wanted to discuss instead the NGB upgrading of Exchanges that were already enabled years ago. Totally irrelevant to the queries on this thread relating to the hundreds of Exchanges that were never enabled for basic DSL.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Well I would rather focus on the exchanges that were supposed to be upgraded since April 2007 and which have not been as well as the status of city exchanges within the Take All Orders promise.

    That would inevitably still leave around 200 exchanges with no DSL but eircom never promised anything in those cases.

    Currently 271 eircom exchanges have no DSL capability as far as can be ascertained ...naturally I would be glad to hear otherwise or about any plans to add DSL capability of any sort to any of these Last or New Generation Broaband...sure anything will do.

    Name Code STD County
    BILBOA BIB 059 Carlow
    FENAGH FEH 059 Carlow
    HACKETSTOWN HKN 059 Carlow
    MYSHALL MYL 059 Carlow
    RATHOE RTO 059 Carlow
    TEMPLEOWEN TMO 059 Carlow
    BAWNBOY BBY 049 Cavan
    BUTLERS BRIDGE BUB 049 Cavan
    CANNINGSTOWN CAW 042 Cavan
    CROSS KEYS CKS 049 Cavan
    SWANLINBAR SBR 049 Cavan
    BALLYVAUGHAN BVN 065 Clare
    BEHAGH BHH 065 Clare
    BROADFORD (Shannon) BRF 061 Clare
    CAHER CER 061 Clare
    CARRON CRR 065 Clare
    CRAGGAGH CAG 065 Clare
    DOONAHA DHA 065 Clare
    INAGH ING 065 Clare
    KILKEE KKE 065 Clare
    KNOCK KCK 065 Clare
    LABASHEEDA LDA 065 Clare
    LISSYCASEY LCY 065 Clare
    MONEYPOINT MPT 065 Clare
    OGONNELLOE OGO 061 Clare
    RAHEY CROSS RYX 065 Clare
    RUAN RUN 065 Clare
    ARDFIELD ALD 023 Cork
    ARDGROOM ADM 027 Cork
    ASHMOUNT ASM 021 Cork
    BALLYDESMOND BMD 064 Cork
    BALLYMACODA BMA 024 Cork
    BALLYNOE BLO 058 Cork
    BERNEY'S CROSS BYX 029 Cork
    BWEENG BWG 021 Cork
    CAHERAGH CEA 028 Cork
    CAPE CLEAR CCI 028 Cork
    CARRIGANIMMY CIM 026 Cork
    CHURCHTOWN CHW 022 Cork
    CONNA CNN 058 Cork
    CROSSBARRY CBA 021 Cork
    CULLEN CUX 029 Cork
    DUNDERROW DUW 021 Cork
    INCHYDONEY INY 023 Cork
    KILCROHANE KCH 027 Cork
    KNOCKNAGREE KNG 064 Cork
    KNOCKRAHA KHA 021 Cork
    LISLEVANE LVN 023 Cork
    LYRE LYR 029 Cork
    MEELIN MEN 029 Cork
    MILFORD MLD 063 Cork
    NEWCESTOWN NCN 021 Cork
    NEWTOWNSHANDRUM NSM 063 Cork
    RINGASKIDDY PORT RIP 021 Cork
    ROCKCHAPEL RCH 029 Cork
    SALLYBROOK SBK 021 Cork
    TARELTON TAN 026 Cork
    TEMPLEMARTIN TPN 021 Cork
    ARRANMORE ARN 074 Donegal
    CULDAFF CDF 074 Donegal
    DOIRE CHONAIRE DCE 074 Donegal
    DRUMKEEN DUK 074 Donegal
    GLENEELY GEY 074 Donegal
    ROSSNOWLAGH RWH 071 Donegal
    ST JOHNSTON STJ 074 Donegal
    BALDOYLE BDL 01 Dublin
    BALGADDY BGD 01 Dublin
    CLONSKEAGH CKH 01 Dublin
    OLDTOWN OLD 01 Dublin
    PEAMOUNT LANE PML 01 Dublin
    IBMSITE IBM 01 Dublin
    CASHEL CAS 095 Galway
    CLEGGAN CGG 095 Galway
    CLONBUR CNB 094 Galway
    CREGGS CGS 090 Galway
    EYRECOURT ECT 090 Galway
    GLANN GLA 091 Galway
    GURTEEN GUN 090 Galway
    INISBOFIN IBF 095 Galway
    INISHERE IHR 099 Galway
    INISHMAAN INM 099 Galway
    KILLIMOR KIR 090 Galway
    KILRICKLE KCE 091 Galway
    KILRONAN KRN 099 Galway
    KNOCKFERRY KNF 091 Galway
    LETTERFRACK LKR 095 Galway
    MAAM MAM 091 Galway
    NEW INN NIN 090 Galway
    NEWBRIDGE NBE 090 Galway
    RECESS RCS 095 Galway
    ROUNDSTONE RST 095 Galway
    TOBERELATAN TBL 091 Galway
    TULLY CROSS TUX 095 Galway
    WOODLAWN WLN 090 Galway
    ANNASCAUL ACL 066 Kerry
    ASDEE ASD 068 Kerry
    BALLINSKELLIGS BKS 066 Kerry
    BALLYDAVID BYD 066 Kerry
    BLACKWATER BRIDGE BIG 064 Kerry
    BROSNA BNA 068 Kerry
    CAHERDANIEL CRD 066 Kerry
    CLOGHANE CHA 066 Kerry
    CLONKEEN CKE 064 Kerry
    FINUGE FGE 068 Kerry
    FYBAGH FYB 066 Kerry
    GLENCAR GCR 066 Kerry
    INCH INH 066 Kerry
    KELLS KLL 066 Kerry
    LAURAGH LRH 064 Kerry
    LISSELTON LSN 068 Kerry
    LYRACROMPANE LPN 068 Kerry
    MUCKROSS MUC 064 Kerry
    PORTMAGEE PME 066 Kerry
    TUOSIST TST 064 Kerry
    VALENTIA ISLAND VIS 066 Kerry
    VENTRY VTY 066 Kerry
    ALLENWOOD ALW 045 Kildare
    ARDCLOUGH ARC 01 Kildare
    CALVERSTOWN CVW 045 Kildare
    CHERRYVILLE CYE 045 Kildare
    COLBINSTOWN COL 045 Kildare
    COOLCARRIGAN CCG 045 Kildare
    HEWLETT-PACKARD HPD 01 Kildare
    INTEL INL 01 Kildare
    KILMEAD KMD 059 Kildare
    NARRAGHMORE NAR 059 Kildare
    PUNCHESTOWN CROSS PNC 045 Kildare
    COON COO 056 Kilkenny
    JOHNSWELL JWL 056 Kilkenny
    OLDTOWN OWN 056 Kilkenny
    THE ROWER RWR 051 Kilkenny
    ARLES ARL 059 Laois
    BALLINAKILL BAK 057 Laois
    BALLINTUBBERT BBT 059 Laois
    BALLYFIN BIN 057 Laois
    CLOUGH COU 057 Laois
    COOLRAIN CRN 057 Laois
    CULLAHILL CIL 057 Laois
    ERRILL ERL 0505 Laois
    LUGGACURREN LRN 057 Laois
    SHANAHOE SNO 057 Laois
    THE SWAN TSW 059 Laois
    WOLFHILL WOL 059 Laois
    TIMAHOE TOE 057 Laois
    AUGHACASHEL AUG 071 Leitrim
    CARRIGALLEN CIG 049 Leitrim
    CLOONE CLU 071 Leitrim
    DOWRA DRA 071 Leitrim
    DRUMKEERAN DKN 071 Leitrim
    GLENFARNE GLF 071 Leitrim
    KILTYCLOGHER KLR 071 Leitrim
    LEITRIM VILLAGE LET 071 Leitrim
    NEWTOWNGORE NGO 049 Leitrim
    BALLAGH BAH 069 Limerick
    BALLYAGRAN BGN 063 Limerick
    BRUREE BEE 063 Limerick
    CASTLEMAHON CMN 069 Limerick
    FEENAGH FGH 063 Limerick
    GALBALLY GBY 062 Limerick
    GLENROE GLO 063 Limerick
    GRANAGH GNG 061 Limerick
    HERBERTSTOWN HBN 061 Limerick
    KILMEEDY KMY 063 Limerick
    KNOCKADERRY KKY 069 Limerick
    MARTINSTOWN MAN 063 Limerick
    MEANUS MUS 061 Limerick
    TOURNAFULLA TFA 069 Limerick
    ARDAGH ADH 043 Longford
    CARRICKGLASS CKG 043 Longford
    CLONDRA CNA 043 Longford
    COLEHILL CLL 044 Longford
    KENAGH KNA 043 Longford
    MOYNE CROSS MEX 049 Longford
    NEWTOWNCASHEL NTC 043 Longford
    RACECOURSE ROAD RCR 042 Louth
    READYPENNY RPY 042 Louth
    ATTYMASS ATS 096 Mayo
    BALLYCASTLE BCE 096 Mayo
    BALLYCROY BYR 098 Mayo
    BANGOR ERRIS BES 097 Mayo
    BINGHAMSTOWN BHM 097 Mayo
    BLACKSOD BKD 097 Mayo
    CARROWMORELACKEN CMK 096 Mayo
    CLARE ISLAND CIS 098 Mayo
    CLOGHANS CRF 096 Mayo
    CLOONAGH CAH 098 Mayo
    CURRANE CUA 098 Mayo
    DOOLEEG DLG 096 Mayo
    FERRYBRIDGE FBD 094 Mayo
    GARRANARD GRD 096 Mayo
    GEESALA GSL 097 Mayo
    GLENAMOY GMI 097 Mayo
    GLENISLAND GIL 094 Mayo
    HOLLYMOUNT HMT 094 Mayo
    KEEL KEL 098 Mayo
    KILLADOON KON 098 Mayo
    MULRANY MRY 098 Mayo
    PARK PRK 094 Mayo
    ROSSPORT RSP 097 Mayo
    TOOREEN TOR 094 Mayo
    TOURMAKEADY TEY 094 Mayo
    URLAUR URL 094 Mayo
    CASTLEJORDAN CSJ 046 Meath
    DUNDERRY DDY 046 Meath
    FORDSTOWN FWN 046 Meath
    KILBRIDE KBE 01 Meath
    KILSHARVAN KSV 041 Meath
    LONGWOOD LWD 046 Meath
    ROBINSTOWN RBT 046 Meath
    ANNYALLA AYL 042 Monaghan
    GLASSLOUGH GLS 047 Monaghan
    STRANOODEN SON 042 Monaghan
    BALLYDALY BDA 057 Offaly
    BRACKNAGH BKG 057 Offaly
    CLOGHAN CGH 090 Offaly
    CLONBULLOGUE CBE 046 Offaly
    CLONYGOWAN CYG 057 Offaly
    LEABEG LAG 057 Offaly
    POLLAGH PLL 057 Offaly
    SHANNONBRIDGE SNB 090 Offaly
    TULLAMORE COURT TMC 057 Offaly
    WALSH ISLAND WIS 057 Offaly
    KINNITY KNT 057 Offaly
    BALLYFORAN BFN 090 Roscommon
    EMMOO JUNCTION EMJ 090 Roscommon
    FOUR ROADS FRS 090 Roscommon
    MONKSLAND MNK 090 Roscommon
    TAUGHMACONNELL TML 090 Roscommon
    BUNNANADDAN BUD 071 Sligo
    DROMARD DMD 071 Sligo
    LAVAGH LVH 071 Sligo
    AGHANCON AHC 057 Tipperary
    AHERLOW AHO 062 Tipperary
    BALLINGARRY BRY 067 Tipperary
    BALLYMACKEY BCK 067 Tipperary
    BALLYPOREEN BPN 052 Tipperary
    BOHERLAHAN BON 0504 Tipperary
    CARRIG CGB 057 Tipperary
    COOLBAWN CBN 067 Tipperary
    CRINKILL CRI 090 Tipperary
    GOOLDS CROSS GSX 0504 Tipperary
    KILCOMMON KCO 062 Tipperary
    LISRONAGH LSR 052 Tipperary
    MOYNE MNE 0504 Tipperary
    MULLENNAGLOUGH MUG 051 Tipperary
    NEW INN NWN 052 Tipperary
    REARCROSS RRX 062 Tipperary
    ROSEGREEN RGN 062 Tipperary
    ROSSOULTY RSY 0504 Tipperary
    SILVERMINES SIL 067 Tipperary
    TEMPLEDERRY TDY 0504 Tipperary
    TEMPLETUOHY TPY 0504 Tipperary
    TOOMEVARA TOO 067 Tipperary
    BALLINAMULT BAM 058 Waterford
    BALLYMACARBRY BMY 052 Waterford
    CLASHMORE CMO 058 Waterford
    LOSKERAN LOS 058 Waterford
    SHANBALLY SHY 058 Waterford
    STRADBALLY STY 051 Waterford
    BALLYMORE BYW 044 Westmeath
    BALLYNACARGY BNY 044 Westmeath
    FINEA FNA 043 Westmeath
    ROSEMOUNT ROT 090 Westmeath
    ADAMSTOWN ADT 053 Wexford
    MONAMOLIN MLN 053 Wexford
    COOLKENNO CKO 059 Wicklow
    ENNISKERRY KILGARRON EKK 01 Wicklow
    GLENCREE GNE 01 Wicklow
    KILMACANOGUE KMC 01 Wicklow
    REDCROSS RDS 0404 Wicklow
    VALLEYMOUNT VMT 045 Wicklow


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,659 ✭✭✭✭dahamsta


    Come on Eircom, stop acting the maggot and answer the question that was asked.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 354 ✭✭arctan


    the reason he's going on about NGB is because that is DSL, well the access customers will be given is DSL ...

    i.e. if your exchange has been upgraded into the next generation network, DSL should be available..

    Eircom are also only obligated to provide a telephone service if financially viable...

    once they do, there is no obligation for them to upgrade a line to handle anything other than voice, well at the moment.

    unfortunately this means, if you're out in the sticks, be happy if you even got a copper cable out, let alone a service to handle DSL ...

    there are also logistical and technology limitations to rolling out a DSL connection, particularly when down the country where lines easily travel past the 5km limit for DSL to the nearest exchange... it can even make basic PSTN services a nightmare.

    of course, in a perfect world, we'd all have Fibre to the home, but without investment, Eircom have to bank on, and pump money into the main money makers (commercial, and urban residential customers)

    I'd get onto them to see if you are in a suitable area for FCS (Fixed Cellular Service)... its basically wireless connection to a tower or exchange for your home telephone and slightly higher than dial up data speeds (some areas can be faster than a fixed ISDN line)

    edit: just seen one or two of the names of the exchanges in Wicklow ... lol, ever see the likes of Glencree exchange ? its basically a box .... no wonder it's not DSL enabled.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    arctan wrote: »
    the reason he's going on about NGB is because that is DSL, well the access customers will be given is DSL ..

    Yeah but that is not what he was asked :)

    eircom have around 1220 exchanges.

    950 or so have broadband, up to 8mbit first generation ADSL

    210 of the 950 have NGB, up to 24mbit second generation ADSL
    (another 30 or so were promised NGB on top of the 210, eircom have no intention of upgrading all 950 to NGB)

    2 of the 950 have VDSL, up to 100mbit third generation ADSL( actually VDSL)

    2 more of the 950 have some fibre, 1 in Dublin and 1 in Wexford.

    270 have nothing. Many of those 270 were promised _something_, ie not fibre and not VDSL...just bog standard ADSL.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 354 ✭✭arctan


    simple matter of fact though is, that it all has to go into the next generation network ...

    if it's not next generation broadband enabled ... this means no DSL ... of any type


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,659 ✭✭✭✭dahamsta


    arctan wrote: »
    if it's not next generation broadband enabled ... this means no DSL ... of any type

    Where did you get that idea? There's a rake of non-"NGB" - a retarded term btw - DSL-enabled exchanges around the country. I'm on one, and they're doing the exact same thing with these now they did with the DSL upgrades -- do the top earners, and screw everyone else.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 354 ✭✭arctan


    it's how the network is being upgraded... unless the exchange is an RSU (a type of sub exchange) to another exchange that it is linked in the with the next generation network, you won't have DSL, because you won't be linked into the network, simple ..

    NGB, NGN, all fairly homo terms alright, but unfortunately Next Generation Network and Broadband are fairly standard terms in the industry for describing this type of network, bit like 2.5, 3 and 4 G in mobile networks ...

    as for the do the top earners, screw everyone else, they are a company who do have to turn over a profit, instead of upgrading Farmer Joe in the sticks with a nice DSL connection so he can watch youtube, they could save money and install it into a business premises with more line useage, hence more profit ...

    ever see the costs for upgrading an exchange ? let alone then puttin in infrastructure into a customer ?

    unfortunately, Eircom could promise you the moon and the sun, but regulatory wise, even in urban areas, all they are obligated to do is provide you with simple voice sevices... even then, it's only when financially viable.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,659 ✭✭✭✭dahamsta


    Sorry but you're going around in circles. You clearly said that if an exchange isn't NGB enabled, DSL isn't available - I quoted you directly - and as I said this is absolutely not the case. I know how DSL works, I know what NGB represents, I know the costs involved and I'm acutely aware of Eircom's ridiculous levels of debt, none of these have any relevance to that statement.

    I'm not even sure how to respond to the comment about rural exchanges. It does make me wonder if you've ever set foot outside a major city. Villages and towns are very different animals these days.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 354 ✭✭arctan


    Don't be sorry, because I'm not going in a circle ... I'm not doubting for one second either you don't know anything about DSL

    but if the exchange is not connected to the next gen network, you won't get DSL ... I then corrected it by saying, some (especially in rural areas), are RSU's, even though they are called exchanges, they are merely RSU's (sub exchanges), a bit like a spur out from a main exchange, it's to combat signal degredation over long runs (or a lot are put into spur towns or industrial estates for ease of access) ... they can have DSL also (even though records and wholesalers will say they don't)

    re: the comment of rural exchanges, it's because I've worked on a lot of them ... to call some of them an exchange is hilarious tbh ... but if it has an E-side cable, LLI and MDF ... it's designated an exchange ... even if its in a roadside box


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    In the interests of simplicity an "exchange" is a point where an A/D conversion is carried out and power injected into a E side or a D side. It could be the size of a biscuit tin on a pole somewhere but is normally a roadside cabinet or a building somewhere. An RSU is a legacy voice telephony description....lets use that instead of exchange if you will. :)

    eircom have no intention of abandoning RSUs backhauled over legacy ATM gear Arctan.

    They maintain the capability to encapsulate a DSL service within ATM do they not??


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 354 ✭✭arctan


    tis an old term alright, but it's still getting plugged around Eircom, most of the industrial estates in Dublin, their exchanges are still called RSU's even though they might be fed with Fibre and have ODF's etc.. in them, not exactly legacy stuff.... a spur off a bigger exchange if anything else is all they are.

    they have to maintain a customers capability yes, but from a rollout sense, if the exchange the customer is connected to is not connected to NGN, they won't get DSL ...

    edit: just a note on the exchange, some of the rural RSU's are basically signal boosters, no A to D or D to A done...


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    You mean some of the rural exchanges are merely pairgains of some sort ?? Which ones off that list would be pairgains ??

    I think the point you are making is that ATM exchanges are no longer being considered for DSL Upgrades, they must have Ethernet backhaul in order to be considered. Am I correct ??

    Ethernet can be backhauled over Wireless ( STM-1 minimum) or Fibre, am I also correct ??


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 354 ✭✭arctan


    not that they are not being considered, but yes they may be put on the long finger compared to higher yielding exchanges, exchanges in urban areas are continuously getting upgraded ...

    if STT had of invested in Eircom, there was a program going to be run to replace pair gains and multiplexers for better technologies in rural areas, but that's on hold and funds being diverted to the next phase of FTTH & FTTC in urban spots I think, which is due to get going in the next couple of months

    Eircom's core backhaul network is all NGN, but it's the exchanges connecting into it, if they are not NGN, you won't get DSL

    (obviously they have to get onto the NGN somewhere, usually the next main exchange they are interconnceted with, be it using ATM or other older technologies)

    ethernet can be backhauled over Wireless and Fibre yes, but it's not usually done in a backhaul sense, distribution sense moreso on the fixed access operations side, FCS, FTTH, FTTH etc.. (Fibre being vDSL, FCS using GPRS or in some areas 3G)


    edit: sorry didn't answer the first part, no they wouldnt just be pairgains, but you could find them along them, yes ...

    have a look here

    http://www.eircomwholesale.ie/ExchangeMap/Modal.aspx?boundaries=true

    just for example off that list, Kilmacanougue 1 is not broadband enable, Kilmacanouge 2 is though according to the map, as far as I remember they are both in the same building and can be jumpered across, so broadband should be available to customers off that exchange ....
    this is a spur from Bray ... Enniskerry is also, so may have been upgraded the last while (or may be an RSU from from Bray also carrying DSL) , but on the list and map it says no Broadband is available... it's a big inconsistancy between what can be actually done and what's on record


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    I was discussing Aggregation more than Access, 3g cells are also backhauled over Ethernet. The Access network is a mess but many pairgains are being abandoned nodadays because of the pace of customer flight from eircom which means copper need no longer be split...no customers for it.

    Do you have a list of the non A/D conversion exchanges from that list above??

    Oh and Dahamsta, your exchange has fibre backhaul and is a designated WSEA Reach Node so it it Ethernet enabled too. Even fibred exchanges can still backhaul over ATM I am sorry to say.

    eircom need but plug and play an upgraded DSLAM in your case. :)


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,659 ✭✭✭✭dahamsta


    I know, which makes it all the more frustrating. I pass it daily and regularly see the lads havin' the tae there, makes me want to stop and offer to install it for them....

    For feck's sake if I could get in there I could patch myself up to my own cab in CIX, and break out from there. :)


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Around 700 of eircoms 1200 exchanges are now Ethernet backhauled ...Arctan can confirm that I think.

    Yet only 210 of the 700 have had the 7 year old ADSL2 technology installed ( marketed as Next Generation of course but it is 7 years old :) ) and perhaps another 30-100 will be done in future.

    In terms of backhaul I don't know how many of the remaining 500 exchanges are due to be switched off ATM or Pairgaining and onto Ethernet.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 354 ✭✭arctan


    aggregation, yes you're right in that sense,

    consumer flight, from mobiles in rural areas to UPC in urban areas can be bad for business for eircom, but, particularly in rural areas, it's good for the consumer, its freeing up lines to be used as regular lines instead of Digital carriers... so instead of having 4 customers, you now have one who can avail of more services, Broadband (if they can get it) and PSTN ... Eircom still lose out, but instead of 4 unhappy customers they have one happy customer using more services

    I don't have a non A/D list handy sorry ...


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Do you have any Ethernet stats, we cross posted at the same time there??


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 354 ✭✭arctan


    not off hand sorry, but I think it's an awful lot more than you mention, as i said exchanges are gettin upgraded all the time, but records take their time on being updated


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Final question, is the Ethernet backhaul upgrade program still underway and at what rate per month roughly ???


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 354 ✭✭arctan


    they are getting upgraded depending on usage ... i.e. higher capacity (regardless of area , but 9 times out of 10 it's urban) have priority

    not uncommon for busy inter exchange lines to get an upgrade in capacity once every year or two (i.e. pulling in a new fibre) if the customers to use it are there ...

    unfortunately it pulls man power and funds from elsewhere, leaving, particularly rural customers, with Eircom's obligation of voice services only...

    but the plan is to get majority of exchanges up to NGN spec, but when is a different story, especially with fook all funds to develop the network with


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Forgot to mention to Dahamsta. One can get a symettrical layer 2 Ethernet product from your premises to a WSEA Node Reach exchange to a reputable datacentre somewhere like Dublin and then you can get Layer 3 IP Transit there for feck all . That would give you a decent connection, one far above what even ADSL2 would provide...especially if one needed the uplink speeds.

    eircom can do up to 100mbits symettrical if they bond copper pairs. Thereafter one requires fibre to the premises but the prices for the fibre pull are not outrageous if one lives 1-1.5km from the exchange.

    Just a thought :cool:


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,659 ✭✭✭✭dahamsta


    It's me house SB, my premises is CIX. Well under 500m by line I reckon, but I think I'll stick with the deprecated DSL for now; I've seen Eircom's prices for that kinda stuff.

    God, I remember years ago trying to get a naked line for my "taxi service", do you remember those days? I'm getting on now....


  • Registered Users Posts: 580 ✭✭✭regress


    Sponge Bob wrote: »

    eircom have around 1220 exchanges.

    950 or so have broadband,

    210 of the 950 have NGB

    270 have nothing. Many of those 270 were promised _something_, ie not fibre and not VDSL...just bog standard ADSL.

    The previous technical discussion went a bit over my head but assume that above is basic description of situation. I assume as well that Ant was being disingenuous when he directed posters to NGB website for info of plans for the 270 with nothing.

    While we must accept that most of the 270 will never get anything there are two categories for which basic DSL was promised and I think it is reasonable to expect some sort of an explanation from Eircom for why they have nothing

    1 Exchanges covered by the 2007 upgrade program

    2 Exchanges in the five major cities ( take all orders ) promise

    I suppose expecting a response from Eircom is a bit hopeless at this stage as the reps only want to talk about NGB .


  • Registered Users Posts: 580 ✭✭✭regress


    regress wrote: »
    I think it is reasonable to expect some sort of an explanation from Eircom for why they have nothing

    1 Exchanges covered by the 2007 upgrade program

    2 Exchanges in the five major cities ( take all orders promise)

    .

    Bump. Still waiting a response from Eircom reps. Although I realise ye have been very busy responding to NGB queries. Some of us with nothing still hope for ADSL.


  • Registered Users Posts: 580 ✭✭✭regress


    Bump. I think it is reasonable to expect a response from Eircom in relation to broken promises.

    Broken Promise No 1. Exchanges on the 2007 Upgrade list will be upgraded to ADSL by 2009

    Broken Promise No 2. Those living in the 5 major cities will have basic 1MB broadband by 2009, either through ADSL or wimax. The "Take all orders" promise.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,138 ✭✭✭eircom: Ant


    regress wrote: »
    Bump. I think it is reasonable to expect a response from Eircom in relation to broken promises.

    Broken Promise No 1. Exchanges on the 2007 Upgrade list will be upgraded to ADSL by 2009

    Broken Promise No 2. Those living in the 5 major cities will have basic 1MB broadband by 2009, either through ADSL or wimax. The "Take all orders" promise.

    Hi regress,

    Apologies for delay. I've asked Technical Support for more information on your query. I'm looking into this and will advise further during the week.

    Best wishes,
    Ant


  • Registered Users Posts: 580 ✭✭✭regress


    Thanks Ant


  • Registered Users Posts: 580 ✭✭✭regress


    Thanks Ant



    Broken Promise No 1

    In 2007 Eircom announced a programme to reprogram certain named exchanges and carry
    out works to ensure that the exchanges on this list could deliver 1MB DSL broadband. 
    Eircom committed to completing this work by the end of 2009.

    Eircom even set up a site (formerly at www. broadbandatoz.ie) to announce when these exchanges were enabled.

    According to Spongebob Eircom promised to enable the following Exchanges





    Ballyforan
    Carrigallen
    Cloonee
    Kilrickle
    St. Johnston
    Annyalla

    Ballydesmond
    Knocknagree
    Knockraha
    Ballydesmond


    Ballyporeen

    Bruree

    Oldtown
    Coon

    Calverstown


    Broken Promise No 2

    http://www.irishpressreleases.ie/printer-page.php?p=1440

    Quote:
    16 Jan 2007 eircom today announced that with immediate effect the Company is taking all
    broadband orders placed within the five main urban areas of Dublin, Cork, Limerick, Waterford and Galway. Customers whose telephone lines have previously failed to qualify for broadband are encouraged to contact eircom to have their lines re-tested.

    Five years after this promise was made Eircom has abandoned plans to rollout 1MB broadband throughout the five named cities and is refusing the honour the "take all orders" promise. 

    Of course their are an additional 200+ Exchanges in addition to the above with nothing but let's address those two groups first. 


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,323 ✭✭✭jay93


    All tough people are looking for ADSL it's a dying tech at this point i really can't see Eircom ever complete the ADSL roll out in Ireland.

    If Eircom had the funds rolling out Fibre FTTH FTTC would be better for the future ADSL is terrible for long distances and overall speed we have a ''8Mb'' line with Eircom it's good but upload is crap 0.30Mb/s fibre could reach well over 20Mb/s Upload on fibre can't see ADSL being rolled out anymore their doesn't seem to be much in it for Eircom again they complete the ADSL roll out they would be starting with fibre then.

    I can only imagine how annoying it must be to have no form of fixed broadband but Eircom are broke as a business the only way Eircom can save all the customers jumping to UPC is by starting to roll out more FTTH FTTC otherwise the more UPC spreads across Ireland the quicker Eircom will loose ADSL customers to the UPC cable service.

    Fibre trials of the new Eircom/Magnet FTTH and FTTC have seen some amazing results with great pings download and upload rates..

    Chances of us getting Fibre here are very slim for the moment anyway..


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