Illegal immigrants

Ellie2008 · 07-01-2012 11:16PM #1

I was having a conversation with a friend who represents immigrants before the Refugee Appeals Tribunal and it made me think about how some Irish people can be quite critical of people lying so that they can stay in Ireland or coming here pregnant for the same reason. My friend has a son and said she would literally do anything to give him a better life if that involved lying to stay in a country so be it, I can see her point I mean to Africans Ireland must seem like heaven, should we not have more understanding?

galwayrush · 07-01-2012 11:17PM

We're rolling in money, let them all in....:rolleyes:

Ellie2008 · 07-01-2012 11:18PM

galwayrush wrote: »

We're rolling in money, let them all in....:rolleyes:

To clarify I wasnt suggesting that, I just think maybe in our conversations and attitudes we need to have more understanding.

biko · 07-01-2012 11:22PM

We understand alright that Ireland must be a very nice place for someone from a very poor country.
That doesn't mean we should open our borders for everyone. I'm not sure the infrastructure or the economy could handle it.
The people I know from Nigeria, Tunisia, Morocco etc all are here for the money and the brighter future.

I think we should try to help poor people "at home" rather than invite them here.

senorwipesalot · 07-01-2012 11:23PM

We already have more than our fair share.Time to call a halt.

mikemac1 · 07-01-2012 11:23PM

Ellie2008 wrote: »

I was having a conversation with a friend who represents immigrants before the Refugee Appeals Tribunal ?

And it's taxpayers like you pay these legal fees to represent people who should not be here

Ellie2008 wrote: »

should we not have more understanding?

Well yes, there are people living in awful conditions in Africa
But if you're desperate and poor you don't have the option of fleeing to a small windswept island in the Atlantic. It's take money and resources to even get here.

Look at Rotimi Adebari, came to Ireland claiming he was fleeing religious persecution. Became a councillor, then the mayor of Portlaoise and returned to Nigeria for a civic reception for his achievement
In fear of his life alright......

Or Pamela from Sligo who went through at least four legal teams and would make Michael Lowry and Liam Lawlor look amateurs with her ability to frustrate and drag out proceedings.

Making a laugh out of us

woodoo · 07-01-2012 11:24PM

I think we should have some immigration in response to jobs that can't be filled here and maybe take 100 asylum seekers per year max.

Illegal immigrants should be returned home asap regardless if they have children or not here.

WIZE · 07-01-2012 11:26PM

This Country needs rules for immigration and to stick to them . No ifs or buts.

any immigrants breaking the law should be deported

also they need to fit into Irish society and not think their religious or laws from their own country can be flawnted here.

membersonly · 07-01-2012 11:27PM

Immigants! I knew it was them, even when it was the bears I knew it was them...

ronnie3585 · 07-01-2012 11:27PM

It's the immigrants, I knew it was the immigrants........even when it wasn't, I knew it was the immigrants.

Killer Pigeon · 07-01-2012 11:31PM

This is why Irish people are evil and against asylum seekers, boardsies are also "extremely dangerous to society".

(try not to laugh)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aUQi_edXl4

Oh yes, it seems that it's not just Africans who want asylum here...but people who come from very prosperous countries and have little or no severe threat to their lives.

the groutch · 07-01-2012 11:34PM

Dey Tuk Er Jerbs!

later12 · 07-01-2012 11:34PM

biko wrote: »

That doesn't mean we should open our borders for everyone. I'm not sure the infrastructure or the economy could handle it.

Why must you firstly refer to our infrastructure or economy?
As far as I can see that's not what the OP was asking.

If we look on this matter from a human perspective, immune from nationalistic self-interest, it is absurd that we should close our borders to our fellow man in order to save our own economy.

I find the way in which this opinion is so acceptable (and in fairness, so widespread) in the quarter of a million years during which we have been on Earth to be utterly dejecting.

Opening our borders in an uncontrolled and chaotic fashion would not be a welcome nor a rational action.

But neither is this suggestion that we ought to 'protect our own', when 'our own' is a selfish and an entirely arbitrary human construction that owes most of its privilege to an accident of birth.

What gave you the right to live here, biko?

RichieC · 07-01-2012 11:34PM

We really cpuld use some genetic divercity on the oul sod.

Honestly though.. Wait until the the fresh water supply from the glaciers runs out and we suddenly have 30 million refugee on tbe move. These will be the good old days.

mikemac1 · 07-01-2012 11:39PM

The Dutch, French, German, Spanish, Portuguese all had colonies
And the Belgians were notorious for what went on in their colonies, get your arm hacked off for dissent
I haven't listed everyone

Those countries can step and deal with it.

Ireland will deal with the population on Rockall

biko · 07-01-2012 11:39PM

later10 wrote: »

Why must you firstly refer to our infrastructure or economy?
As far as I can see that's not what the OP was asking.

True, the OP wants us to be nicer to lying non-Irish that have come here for a brighter future. That's it?

Imo, if they have lied and do not need protection under UN or other convention then they should not be here.
They will only help flood the market with cheap labour and bring down wages for everyone.

Also they undermine the faith the Irish put in them, such as Pamela Izevbekhai.
Neither that this help

A joint operation by gardai and the Department of Social and Family Affairs has uncovered social welfare fraud involving more than €2.2m in false claims by asylum seekers so far this year.
This brings the total value of savings from false benefit claims by asylum applicants to €14m since August 2004.

l A Nigerian woman who applied for asylum here in 2003 and was granted refugee status in 2005 and who was subsequently found to have a multi-entry visa for the UK, which she sought while living in Lagos. She had previously claimed in her asylum application that she had been forced to flee from Nigeria. She is still living here in receipt of rent allowance of €1,143 a month and payments of €245.80 weekly.

l A Nigerian man was stopped in Belfast on his way to Dublin, had two Nigerian passports, one which gave him permission to live in Ireland and the other to reside in the UK. He was registered to live here with his Nigerian wife on the basis that they had an Irish-born child but he had also been granted the right to live in the UK on the basis of a marriage to a Portuguese woman. He works in the UK but he and his wife claim social welfare benefits of €32,677.60 a year from the Irish State.

l Another Nigerian man was stopped in Belfast while in transit to Birmingham. He had been here to collect his monthly social welfare benefit of €2,240. He is suspected of sub letting a house in Longford and is stated to have left the country in 2005.

l An Indian man arrived at Dublin airport for a week-long visit but was picked up by immigration officials at Holyhead port while attempting to enter the UK. He was served with illegal entry papers and returned to Dublin port. But within four hours he was discovered at Belfast docks where he claimed to be Sri Lankan.

woodoo · 07-01-2012 11:40PM

later10 wrote: »

Why must you firstly refer to our infrastructure or economy?
As far as I can see that's not what the OP was asking.

If we look on this matter from a human perspective, immune from nationalistic self-interest, it is absurd that we should close our borders to our fellow man in order to save our own economy.

I find the way in which this opinion is so acceptable (and in fairness, so widespread) in the quarter of a million years during which we have been on Earth to be utterly dejecting.

Opening our borders in an uncontrolled and chaotic fashion would not be a welcome nor a rational action.

But neither is this suggestion that we ought to 'protect our own', when 'our own' is a selfish and an entirely arbitrary human construction that owes most of its privilege to an accident of birth.

What gave you the right to live here, biko?

Is selfish always bad. Why should we be selfless?

KINGVictor · 07-01-2012 11:44PM

Ellie2008 wrote: »

I was having a conversation with a friend who represents immigrants before the Refugee Appeals Tribunal and it made me think about how some Irish people can be quite critical of people lying so that they can stay in Ireland or coming here pregnant for the same reason. My friend has a son and said she would literally do anything to give him a better life if that involved lying to stay in a country so be it, I can see her point I mean to Africans Ireland must seem like heaven, should we not have more understanding?

@ OP - they are no longer called illegal immigrants...so PC

They are classified as Undocumented

Ellie2008 · 07-01-2012 11:45PM

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

This is why Irish people are evil and against asylum seekers, boardsies are also "extremely dangerous to society".

(try not to laugh)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aUQi_edXl4

Oh yes, it seems that it's not just Africans who want asylum here...but people who come from very prosperous countries and have little or no severe threat to their lives.

I watched this worth the ten minutes...

pragmatic1 · 07-01-2012 11:45PM

I would do the same if I was in their position but that doesnt mean we should just let anyone into the country that wants to. No one can blame people wanting a better life, but we have to think about the welfare of our own people first.

Ellie2008 · 07-01-2012 11:45PM

KINGVictor wrote: »

@ OP - they are no longer called illegal immigrants...so PC

They are classified as Undocumented

I stand corrected, many thanks.

Ellie2008 · 07-01-2012 11:49PM

biko wrote: »

True, the OP wants us to be nicer to lying non-Irish that have come here for a brighter future. That's it?

Imo, if they have lied and do not need protection under UN or other convention then they should not be here.
They will only help flood the market with cheap labour and bring down wages for everyone.
Also they undermine the faith the Irish put in them, such as Pamela Izevbekhai.

Ok so take a person who is not at risk of being persecuted but they are seriously seriously poor and they manage to get this far and can almost touch the chance of a better life and Irish people, the majority of whom live like kings in comparison are scornful of them for doing whatever it takes to stay here - that's the bit I dont understand.

RichieC · 07-01-2012 11:50PM

What annoys me is the same anti immigrant low lifes are the same eejits who argue against global climate change. Well lads your wreakless short sightedness is going to cause the largest refugee crisis this world will ever see. You wont have a leg to stand on when the **** really hits the fan.

Even those on the side of fixing the problem are lying through their teeth with false optimism

currently refugees are fleeing political or relugious persecution. That will soon be the least of their problems...we are screwed.

later12 · 07-01-2012 11:50PM

biko wrote: »

Imo, if they have lied and do not need protection under UN or other convention then they should not be here.

Now I know they have less legal right to be here, but I'm interminably fascinated by that great dutiful auxiliary should.

Tell me, biko; why should non EU nationals not be given the opportunity to remain here?

KINGVictor · 07-01-2012 11:52PM

Ellie2008 wrote: »

I stand corrected, many thanks.

No problem...it is just not a problem in Ireland- a lot of other countries have undocumented people as well. Hope it is all resolved soon...;)

later12 · 07-01-2012 11:53PM

woodoo wrote: »

Is selfish always bad. Why should we be selfless?

A valid point. If one feels that we should be selfish then he ought to argue for entirely arbitrary immigration controls; I wouldn't dispute that.

Ellie2008 · 07-01-2012 11:56PM

KINGVictor wrote: »

No problem...it is just not a problem in Ireland- a lot of other countries have undocumented people as well. Hope it is all resolved soon...;)

A guy a know in Ireland is once such undocumented person, he is white American and has been through Irish airports almost 30 times while working here for years illegally and as far as I know only questioned a tiny number of those times. Now if he was African...

biko · 08-01-2012 12:00AM

Ellie2008 wrote: »

Ok so take a person who is not at risk of being persecuted but they are seriously seriously poor and they manage to get this far and can almost touch the chance of a better life and Irish people, the majority of whom live like kings in comparison are scornful of them for doing whatever it takes to stay here - that's the bit I dont understand.

The older Irish knows what poor is, trust me. The 80s in the rural areas wasn't a walk in the park you know.
Maybe that's why they're now reluctant to share the riches of the boom with people that didn't help build it.

Ellie2008 wrote: »

A guy a know in Ireland is once such undocumented person, he is white American and has been through Irish airports almost 30 times while working here for years illegally and as far as I know only questioned a tiny number of those times. Now if he was African...

He flies back and forth to US? How can he be "undocumented" and have a passport? He doesn't have to show a visa at the border?

freeze4real · 08-01-2012 12:05AM

As an immigrant I believe and i'm in support of deportation of illegal immigrants who will live of tax payers money.

whatever nationality they are Nigerian Congolese south africa etc.

2.

The governments are to blame as well, they intend to give out money like bread to this ones. Money given out to asylum seekers must be cut in half and be replaced by food stamps or something alike.

there are 2 types of illegal immigrant

1. those who would like to work. there was a guy that I knew he had the wrong papers and stuuff. But he went to college graduareted got a nice .1 degree.

3 months after ghis grad immigration caught up with him and was deported I called him and he said I had no regret going over to Ireland using a fake visa/passport. I have gotten what my mates ever dreamt off, that's coming to Europe studying an getting an international degree. That is gold. believe you me its gold. education is the way out if you live in Africa.

2. The 2nd types of illegal immigrants are the low life's the worst of them. They are lazy useless and educated.In truth they have embraced some of the culture of the Irish sitting at home are claiming the dole.
They should be deported at all cost.

We can go round and round with these debates and I tell you WE JUST GO ROUND IN CIRCLES TILL MOD LOCKS THIS FORUM.

mikemac1 · 08-01-2012 12:08AM

Back in the eighties there was a scandal when it was discovered millionaires were paying for Irish passports

We can bring it back, if you want a passport, pay up

freeze4real · 08-01-2012 12:11AM

mikemac1 wrote: »

Back in the eighties there was a scandal when it was discovered millionaires were paying for Irish passports

We can bring it back, if you want a passport, pay up

AFAIK that system is used in the UK as well to encourage business development and growth.

[/QUOTE]We can bring it back, if you want a passport, pay up

[/QUOTE]

In relation to who ? Rich or normal class citizens

Illegal immigrants

Comments