Illegal immigrants

Ellie2008

I was having a conversation with a friend who represents immigrants before the Refugee Appeals Tribunal and it made me think about how some Irish people can be quite critical of people lying so that they can stay in Ireland or coming here pregnant for the same reason. My friend has a son and said she would literally do anything to give him a better life if that involved lying to stay in a country so be it, I can see her point I mean to Africans Ireland must seem like heaven, should we not have more understanding?

galwayrush

We're rolling in money, let them all in....:rolleyes:

Ellie2008

galwayrush wrote: »

We're rolling in money, let them all in....:rolleyes:

To clarify I wasnt suggesting that, I just think maybe in our conversations and attitudes we need to have more understanding.

biko

We understand alright that Ireland must be a very nice place for someone from a very poor country.
That doesn't mean we should open our borders for everyone. I'm not sure the infrastructure or the economy could handle it.
The people I know from Nigeria, Tunisia, Morocco etc all are here for the money and the brighter future.

I think we should try to help poor people "at home" rather than invite them here.

senorwipesalot

We already have more than our fair share.Time to call a halt.

mikemac1

Ellie2008 wrote: »

I was having a conversation with a friend who represents immigrants before the Refugee Appeals Tribunal ?

And it's taxpayers like you pay these legal fees to represent people who should not be here

Ellie2008 wrote: »

should we not have more understanding?

Well yes, there are people living in awful conditions in Africa
But if you're desperate and poor you don't have the option of fleeing to a small windswept island in the Atlantic. It's take money and resources to even get here.

Look at Rotimi Adebari, came to Ireland claiming he was fleeing religious persecution. Became a councillor, then the mayor of Portlaoise and returned to Nigeria for a civic reception for his achievement
In fear of his life alright......

Or Pamela from Sligo who went through at least four legal teams and would make Michael Lowry and Liam Lawlor look amateurs with her ability to frustrate and drag out proceedings.

Making a laugh out of us

woodoo

I think we should have some immigration in response to jobs that can't be filled here and maybe take 100 asylum seekers per year max.

Illegal immigrants should be returned home asap regardless if they have children or not here.

WIZE

This Country needs rules for immigration and to stick to them . No ifs or buts.

any immigrants breaking the law should be deported

also they need to fit into Irish society and not think their religious or laws from their own country can be flawnted here.

membersonly

Immigants! I knew it was them, even when it was the bears I knew it was them...

ronnie3585

It's the immigrants, I knew it was the immigrants........even when it wasn't, I knew it was the immigrants.

Killer Pigeon

This is why Irish people are evil and against asylum seekers, boardsies are also "extremely dangerous to society".

(try not to laugh)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aUQi_edXl4

Oh yes, it seems that it's not just Africans who want asylum here...but people who come from very prosperous countries and have little or no severe threat to their lives.

the groutch

Dey Tuk Er Jerbs!

later12

biko wrote: »

That doesn't mean we should open our borders for everyone. I'm not sure the infrastructure or the economy could handle it.

Why must you firstly refer to our infrastructure or economy?
As far as I can see that's not what the OP was asking.

If we look on this matter from a human perspective, immune from nationalistic self-interest, it is absurd that we should close our borders to our fellow man in order to save our own economy.

I find the way in which this opinion is so acceptable (and in fairness, so widespread) in the quarter of a million years during which we have been on Earth to be utterly dejecting.

Opening our borders in an uncontrolled and chaotic fashion would not be a welcome nor a rational action.

But neither is this suggestion that we ought to 'protect our own', when 'our own' is a selfish and an entirely arbitrary human construction that owes most of its privilege to an accident of birth.

What gave you the right to live here, biko?

RichieC

We really cpuld use some genetic divercity on the oul sod.

Honestly though.. Wait until the the fresh water supply from the glaciers runs out and we suddenly have 30 million refugee on tbe move. These will be the good old days.

mikemac1

The Dutch, French, German, Spanish, Portuguese all had colonies
And the Belgians were notorious for what went on in their colonies, get your arm hacked off for dissent
I haven't listed everyone

Those countries can step and deal with it.

Ireland will deal with the population on Rockall

biko

later10 wrote: »

Why must you firstly refer to our infrastructure or economy?
As far as I can see that's not what the OP was asking.

True, the OP wants us to be nicer to lying non-Irish that have come here for a brighter future. That's it?

Imo, if they have lied and do not need protection under UN or other convention then they should not be here.
They will only help flood the market with cheap labour and bring down wages for everyone.

Also they undermine the faith the Irish put in them, such as Pamela Izevbekhai.
Neither that this help

A joint operation by gardai and the Department of Social and Family Affairs has uncovered social welfare fraud involving more than €2.2m in false claims by asylum seekers so far this year.
This brings the total value of savings from false benefit claims by asylum applicants to €14m since August 2004.

l A Nigerian woman who applied for asylum here in 2003 and was granted refugee status in 2005 and who was subsequently found to have a multi-entry visa for the UK, which she sought while living in Lagos. She had previously claimed in her asylum application that she had been forced to flee from Nigeria. She is still living here in receipt of rent allowance of €1,143 a month and payments of €245.80 weekly.

l A Nigerian man was stopped in Belfast on his way to Dublin, had two Nigerian passports, one which gave him permission to live in Ireland and the other to reside in the UK. He was registered to live here with his Nigerian wife on the basis that they had an Irish-born child but he had also been granted the right to live in the UK on the basis of a marriage to a Portuguese woman. He works in the UK but he and his wife claim social welfare benefits of €32,677.60 a year from the Irish State.

l Another Nigerian man was stopped in Belfast while in transit to Birmingham. He had been here to collect his monthly social welfare benefit of €2,240. He is suspected of sub letting a house in Longford and is stated to have left the country in 2005.

l An Indian man arrived at Dublin airport for a week-long visit but was picked up by immigration officials at Holyhead port while attempting to enter the UK. He was served with illegal entry papers and returned to Dublin port. But within four hours he was discovered at Belfast docks where he claimed to be Sri Lankan.

woodoo

later10 wrote: »

Why must you firstly refer to our infrastructure or economy?
As far as I can see that's not what the OP was asking.

If we look on this matter from a human perspective, immune from nationalistic self-interest, it is absurd that we should close our borders to our fellow man in order to save our own economy.

I find the way in which this opinion is so acceptable (and in fairness, so widespread) in the quarter of a million years during which we have been on Earth to be utterly dejecting.

Opening our borders in an uncontrolled and chaotic fashion would not be a welcome nor a rational action.

But neither is this suggestion that we ought to 'protect our own', when 'our own' is a selfish and an entirely arbitrary human construction that owes most of its privilege to an accident of birth.

What gave you the right to live here, biko?

Is selfish always bad. Why should we be selfless?

KINGVictor

Ellie2008 wrote: »

I was having a conversation with a friend who represents immigrants before the Refugee Appeals Tribunal and it made me think about how some Irish people can be quite critical of people lying so that they can stay in Ireland or coming here pregnant for the same reason. My friend has a son and said she would literally do anything to give him a better life if that involved lying to stay in a country so be it, I can see her point I mean to Africans Ireland must seem like heaven, should we not have more understanding?

@ OP - they are no longer called illegal immigrants...so PC

They are classified as Undocumented

Ellie2008

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

This is why Irish people are evil and against asylum seekers, boardsies are also "extremely dangerous to society".

(try not to laugh)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aUQi_edXl4

Oh yes, it seems that it's not just Africans who want asylum here...but people who come from very prosperous countries and have little or no severe threat to their lives.

I watched this worth the ten minutes...

pragmatic1

I would do the same if I was in their position but that doesnt mean we should just let anyone into the country that wants to. No one can blame people wanting a better life, but we have to think about the welfare of our own people first.

Ellie2008

KINGVictor wrote: »

@ OP - they are no longer called illegal immigrants...so PC

They are classified as Undocumented

I stand corrected, many thanks.

Ellie2008

biko wrote: »

True, the OP wants us to be nicer to lying non-Irish that have come here for a brighter future. That's it?

Imo, if they have lied and do not need protection under UN or other convention then they should not be here.
They will only help flood the market with cheap labour and bring down wages for everyone.
Also they undermine the faith the Irish put in them, such as Pamela Izevbekhai.

Ok so take a person who is not at risk of being persecuted but they are seriously seriously poor and they manage to get this far and can almost touch the chance of a better life and Irish people, the majority of whom live like kings in comparison are scornful of them for doing whatever it takes to stay here - that's the bit I dont understand.

RichieC

What annoys me is the same anti immigrant low lifes are the same eejits who argue against global climate change. Well lads your wreakless short sightedness is going to cause the largest refugee crisis this world will ever see. You wont have a leg to stand on when the **** really hits the fan.

Even those on the side of fixing the problem are lying through their teeth with false optimism

currently refugees are fleeing political or relugious persecution. That will soon be the least of their problems...we are screwed.

later12

biko wrote: »

Imo, if they have lied and do not need protection under UN or other convention then they should not be here.

Now I know they have less legal right to be here, but I'm interminably fascinated by that great dutiful auxiliary should.

Tell me, biko; why should non EU nationals not be given the opportunity to remain here?

KINGVictor

Ellie2008 wrote: »

I stand corrected, many thanks.

No problem...it is just not a problem in Ireland- a lot of other countries have undocumented people as well. Hope it is all resolved soon...;)

later12

woodoo wrote: »

Is selfish always bad. Why should we be selfless?

A valid point. If one feels that we should be selfish then he ought to argue for entirely arbitrary immigration controls; I wouldn't dispute that.

Ellie2008

KINGVictor wrote: »

No problem...it is just not a problem in Ireland- a lot of other countries have undocumented people as well. Hope it is all resolved soon...;)

A guy a know in Ireland is once such undocumented person, he is white American and has been through Irish airports almost 30 times while working here for years illegally and as far as I know only questioned a tiny number of those times. Now if he was African...

biko

Ellie2008 wrote: »

Ok so take a person who is not at risk of being persecuted but they are seriously seriously poor and they manage to get this far and can almost touch the chance of a better life and Irish people, the majority of whom live like kings in comparison are scornful of them for doing whatever it takes to stay here - that's the bit I dont understand.

The older Irish knows what poor is, trust me. The 80s in the rural areas wasn't a walk in the park you know.
Maybe that's why they're now reluctant to share the riches of the boom with people that didn't help build it.

Ellie2008 wrote: »

A guy a know in Ireland is once such undocumented person, he is white American and has been through Irish airports almost 30 times while working here for years illegally and as far as I know only questioned a tiny number of those times. Now if he was African...

He flies back and forth to US? How can he be "undocumented" and have a passport? He doesn't have to show a visa at the border?

freeze4real

As an immigrant I believe and i'm in support of deportation of illegal immigrants who will live of tax payers money.

whatever nationality they are Nigerian Congolese south africa etc.

2.

The governments are to blame as well, they intend to give out money like bread to this ones. Money given out to asylum seekers must be cut in half and be replaced by food stamps or something alike.

there are 2 types of illegal immigrant

1. those who would like to work. there was a guy that I knew he had the wrong papers and stuuff. But he went to college graduareted got a nice .1 degree.

3 months after ghis grad immigration caught up with him and was deported I called him and he said I had no regret going over to Ireland using a fake visa/passport. I have gotten what my mates ever dreamt off, that's coming to Europe studying an getting an international degree. That is gold. believe you me its gold. education is the way out if you live in Africa.

2. The 2nd types of illegal immigrants are the low life's the worst of them. They are lazy useless and educated.In truth they have embraced some of the culture of the Irish sitting at home are claiming the dole.
They should be deported at all cost.

We can go round and round with these debates and I tell you WE JUST GO ROUND IN CIRCLES TILL MOD LOCKS THIS FORUM.

mikemac1

Back in the eighties there was a scandal when it was discovered millionaires were paying for Irish passports

We can bring it back, if you want a passport, pay up

freeze4real

mikemac1 wrote: »

Back in the eighties there was a scandal when it was discovered millionaires were paying for Irish passports

We can bring it back, if you want a passport, pay up

AFAIK that system is used in the UK as well to encourage business development and growth.

[/QUOTE]We can bring it back, if you want a passport, pay up [/QUOTE]

In relation to who ? Rich or normal class citizens

zindicato

the groutch wrote: »

Dey Tuk Er Jerbs!

This thread is about undocumented immigrants as your saying they took your jobs ... well if you are illegal or undocumented you are not allowed to work in the state then the problem here is the people who run local firms that gave them work even though they know themselves that employing this individuals is against the law and does not do a proper background check.

The problem here nowadays is that its hard to really see individual's who are here because of bad circumstances where he/ she came from and that they really need help and those who are here just to take advantage/ abuse the system like the post earlier bout people being stopped with fake ID's.

zenno

biko wrote: »

We understand alright that Ireland must be a very nice place for someone from a very poor country.
That doesn't mean we should open our borders for everyone. I'm not sure the infrastructure or the economy could handle it.
The people I know from Nigeria, Tunisia, Morocco etc all are here for the money and the brighter future.

I think we should try to help poor people "at home" rather than invite them here.

But the borders were open to everyone. do you not think it's a bit late now as in the boom years the government let anyone in even scores of immigrants from Brazil and others that were not even part of the european union. this country is going to have austerity measures for the next ten years so i agree with the governments recent decision to screen all immigrants coming to Ireland now. about time this has happened.

Ellie2008

biko wrote: »

The older Irish knows what poor is, trust me. The 80s in the rural areas wasn't a walk in the park you know.
Maybe that's why they're now reluctant to share the riches of the boom with people that didn't help build it.


He flies back and forth to US? How can he be "undocumented" and have a passport? He doesn't have to show a visa at the border?

Apologies in my tiredness I may have gotten muddled, he of course has a US passport just no Irish visa.

later12

freeze4real wrote: »

As an immigrant I believe and i'm in support of deportation of illegal immigrants

Why,of course.
They are your competitors

who will live of[sic] tax payers money.

How can such a likely cohort be determined upon arrival? This certainly cannot be determined based on one's early academic qualifications; if so why are we not deporting flunks in the school system?

Money given out to asylum seekers must be cut in half and be replaced by food stamps or something alike.

Let me ask you; should this rule not be applied to Irish people who have never paid a tax on their income, as well as to non EU nationals?

Nodin

freeze4real wrote: »

As an immigrant I believe and i'm in support of deportation of illegal immigrants who will live of tax payers money.

whatever nationality they are Nigerian Congolese south africa etc.

2.

The governments are to blame as well, they intend to give out money like bread to this ones. Money given out to asylum seekers must be cut in half and be replaced by food stamps or something alike.

..........

Do you know how much an asylum seeker gets a week?

mikemac1

Nineteen euro but accomadation and meals are sorted in hostels and centres

No bills to look after so they don't need much money

kate.m

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

This is why Irish people are evil and against asylum seekers, boardsies are also "extremely dangerous to society".

(try not to laugh)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aUQi_edXl4

Oh yes, it seems that it's not just Africans who want asylum here...but people who come from very prosperous countries and have little or no severe threat to their lives.

Thanks for posting that...Just...wow. :rolleyes:
Too funny...

K-9

biko wrote: »

We understand alright that Ireland must be a very nice place for someone from a very poor country.
That doesn't mean we should open our borders for everyone. I'm not sure the infrastructure or the economy could handle it.
The people I know from Nigeria, Tunisia, Morocco etc all are here for the money and the brighter future.

I think we should try to help poor people "at home" rather than invite them here.

A lot of the people at home don't really want to help themselves, throw money at them and they waste it. SVDP while nice and do gooding is abused by so many it really should be scrapped. Irish people doing nixers, single parents claiming LPA with the fella living with them, then doing the poor mouth at Christmas.

I think we should bar immigration and then stop throwing money at problems like alcoholism, drug addiction and mental illness for example. We've thrown Billions at it over the years and it solves nothing, the problem got worse. Rates of alcoholism, drug abuse and mental illness are rising. Throwing more money at alcoholics and druggies just seems to make the matter worse.

freeze4real

Ok

Nodin

freeze4real wrote: »

................

Look i have the mate from somalia 2 houses were allocated to his family and brothers, money thrown to their faces anyhow as if they earn't it.

On this warm sunny day he wore a jumper from tk max that cost about 60e and said its to sunny and there the jumper in the bin.

Utter madness gobsmacked I was. fecking ludicrous


I stand by what I've said. money gotten as supplements for any sort of extravagance should be cut.

I was thinking this thread was going too well.

You can't be on the housing list if you're an asylum seeker. I suspect the rest of your post to be somewhat divergent from reality.

mikemac1

freeze4real wrote: »

Look i have the mate from somalia 2 houses were allocated to his family and brothers, money thrown to their faces anyhow as if they earn't it.

On this warm sunny day he wore a jumper from tk max that cost about 60e and said its to sunny and there the jumper in the bin.

Utter madness gobsmacked I was. fecking ludicrous

I met his wife
She was at the busstop and left the childs buggy behind her. Bus driver pointed it out and she said the social welfare will buy her another.

I met his brother too.
Got a cheque to buy a car as the welfare officer was concerned he was getting hassle on the buses

Oh there's loads more of these anecdotes

Ellie2008

kate.m wrote: »

Thanks for posting that...Just...wow. :rolleyes:
Too funny...

Are you the Spawn of Satan?

up for anything

Ellie2008 wrote: »

to Africans Ireland must seem like heaven, should we not have more understanding?

Another year of austerity measures here and we'll all be on the plane to Nigeria. At least there we'll be able to siphon some oil from the pipelines.

freeze4real

Nodin wrote: »

I was thinking this thread was going too well.

You can't be on the housing list if you're an asylum seeker. I suspect the rest of your post to be somewhat divergent from reality.

nice post either he's a refugee instead.

Nodin

freeze4real wrote: »

nice post either he's a refugee instead.

You don't know if your supposed Somali mate has been granted asylum, but you include him in your reasons to cut back on asylum seekers....in a thread thats supposedly about Illegal immigrants.....

Ellie2008

up for anything wrote: »

Another year of austerity measures here and we'll all be on the plane to Nigeria. At least there we'll be able to siphon some oil from the pipelines.

Best of luck with that, they have a nasty habit of shooting people

freeze4real

Nodin wrote: »

You don't know if your supposed Somali mate has been granted asylum, but you include him in your reasons to cut back on asylum seekers....in a thread thats supposedly about Illegal immigrants.....

why dont you clarify it for he's been here over 4yrs now so it makes him......


There loads of reasons to cut back on assylum seekers and i will make this clear I never brought assylum up in this thread, woodooo brought it up but i took to another level.

Whatever the case maybe my point is this, there are loads of money being wasted on illegal immigrants, millions upon millions some do deserve to get through no fault of their own

And some who get it misuse it.

There should be a major crackdown on ilegal immigrants with a swift deportation .

The laws needs to be tightened.

There is a recent video on youtube that highlighted a flaw in the British system.

If someone wants the link I will post it.

later12

mikemac1 wrote: »

Back in the eighties there was a scandal when it was discovered millionaires were paying for Irish passports

There was nothing "discovered" nor "scandalous" about this scheme as you suggest. The matter was debated extensively prior to its implementation in Dail Eireann, and anyone who followed politics at the time really ought to have been aware of its existence.

overshoot

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

This is why Irish people are evil and against asylum seekers, boardsies are also "extremely dangerous to society".

(try not to laugh)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aUQi_edXl4

Oh yes, it seems that it's not just Africans who want asylum here...but people who come from very prosperous countries and have little or no severe threat to their lives.

i can across him before and had a row with the deluded racist fool (a few of his videos have actually been removed from youtube for "inciting hate." (so i feel i can use those terms-actually iv the video rolling as i write this holy hell)

his full story was he overstayed his visa and was here illegally the first time, when he was arrested and deported (after applying for political assylum) he felt he was wronged and the torture he speaks of was being in our inadequate prison system. (he thought his cellmates were not right in the head:D)

that video is new to me, i love how his family background makes him a better person! seems there is a part 2 personally thought it was hilarious!


anyway on topic, i can see why many would lie to stay here many come from literally hell. but they are coming to a different environment. it should be made clear, they are honest and play by the rules from the start or are out

Nodin

freeze4real wrote: »

why dont you clarify it for he's been here over 4yrs now so it makes him......
.

You're asking me about your mate?