Racism - Mod Note on 1st Post - Read before posting.

tommyhaas · 04-01-2012 12:38AM

cournioni wrote: »

I believe it was a rhetorical question from Dalglish to the referee.

Did the referee say that? Look my point is, the majority of people thought the same thing. Liverpool's handling of the situation has IMO been disgraceful, but I don't see a problem in Dalglish saying that immediately after the event.If he said so subsequently, I'd agree with you

Zico · 04-01-2012 12:39AM

I don't understand why Liverpool aren't appealing. The damage in terms of reputation is already done so what is there to lose? Having made a point of taking a highly unpopular stand in support of their player and publicly disputing the findings of the independent panel I'm at a loss as to why they suddenly don't have the courage of their convictions.

clubberlang12 · 04-01-2012 12:43AM

tommyhaas wrote: »

You say statement, yet you've quoted a question. Dalglish asked had Evra made previous allegations, vastly different then stating that he had

Did you know the second the Suarez story broke that Evra hadn't made the claims at Chelsea? I certainly didn't, nor did many other Liverpool or United fans. I don't see any problem with Dalglish asking the question. In fact, it would be negligent for him not to have clarified it

When said in the form of a rhetorical question it is no longer a question, but a statement.

While obviously not being 100% sure, i'd be fairly confident that Kenny wasn't asking Marriner if Evra had done this before, more he was insinuating that Evra had done this before.

We know what is going on, we know what is not in the report and that is important for us.

"It really is very dangerous that you don't know the full extent of the hearing, and what was said. It is up to the club to decide what we want to do about that.

What is he on about here? If there is other evidence......show it, release it, whatever. He has been pretty blunt in saying that the character of his player has being destroyed and in their initial statement after the charge said they would use all means necessary to clear his name, but yet he is stating that not all the facts have being released. This is crazy talk. Put up or shut up Kenny.

Blatter · 04-01-2012 12:44AM

Kess73 wrote: »

The thing is that is does boil down to one man's version of event against another man's version, or one man's word against another's if you like.

The circumstantial evidence in this case is not strong at all, and the FA's own assertion that Evra's interviews were more convincing that those of Suarez does suggest that the tipping point was indeed how one man's words were taking over another's.

At this point it is just becoming a case of splitting hairs, and the fact I have one knuckledragger sending me PMs now about how I am a typical shameful Liverpool supporter saying Suarez is innocent (funny given that I never said Suarez was innocent or that Evra was lying), has me losing interest quickly in debating stuff in this thread

I guess this is where we essentially disagree, the circumstantial evidence was quite damning IMO.

I wouldn't reply to anyone sending you PMs like that and would just ignore them. As you say yourself it's not as if you are saying Suarez is definitely innocent or anything.

K-9 wrote: »

They had no legal representation?

Oh my.

It was the FA v Luis Suarez, United lawyers weren't involved at the commission.

cournioni · 04-01-2012 12:47AM

tommyhaas wrote: »

Did the referee say that? Look my point is, the majority of people thought the same thing. Liverpool's handling of the situation has IMO been disgraceful, but I don't see a problem in Dalglish saying that immediately after the event.If he said so subsequently, I'd agree with you

No, the referee did not say that, however, the statement on the Liverpool FC website would suggest that it was a rhetorical question from Dalglish to the referee. Their stance on the situation is that Patrice Evra is still a liar, which would suggest to me that they really did believe that what Dalglish said was the case prior to any charges being brought against Suarez.

For the record, I knew about the Chelsea incident, however I was not aware of any incident with Steve Finnan prior to it being brought up here.

Blatter · 04-01-2012 12:50AM

Those recent statements from LFC and Suarez aren't reflecting well on the club in the media, Mirror's backpage tomorrow:

Xavi6 · 04-01-2012 12:50AM

Full transcript of Kenny's press conference tonight. Some interesting answers -

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/jan/04/kenny-dalglish-luis-suarez-transcript

K-9 · 04-01-2012 12:53AM

Blatter wrote: »

It was the FA v Luis Suarez, United lawyers weren't involved at the commission.

Ah the report said Evra had a couple of United representatives present and I took that to mean legal ones.

I do think the LFC legal team went about this completely the wrong way. Whether that was their own opinion or based on LFC instructions, against the legal teams advice, there's questions to be answered.

K-9 · 04-01-2012 12:56AM

Was it Taylor? Dalglish should have just banned him.

cournioni · 04-01-2012 12:58AM

Xavi6 wrote: »

Full transcript of Kenny's press conference tonight. Some interesting answers -

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/jan/04/kenny-dalglish-luis-suarez-transcript

Wow. Arrogance unparalleled.

Mr Alan · 04-01-2012 12:59AM

Blatter wrote: »

Those recent statements from LFC and Suarez aren't reflecting well on the club in the media, Mirror's backpage tomorrow:

In fairness The Mirror have been on their high horse since long before any verdict was reached in this case. That headline is more than a little misleading. As was their 'racist' headline the other week. Or their 'racism is creeping back into the game' headline alongside a pic of Suarez the week after the whole thing kicked off.

Nothing like a bit of tabloid sensationalism.

Also funny how their staff have been avid supporters of John Terry throughout his ordeal, both on Twitter & in the paper.

Xenophobia?!

Never!

Xavi6 · 04-01-2012 01:00AM

K-9 wrote: »

Was it Taylor? Dalglish should have just banned him.

Photo of Taylor at the press conference -

K-9 · 04-01-2012 01:00AM

cournioni wrote: »

Wow. Arrogance unparalleled.

Nah, far too naive. Should have just banned the journalist like SAF does. Doesn't matter what he does so just shut them up.

Blatter · 04-01-2012 01:03AM

K-9 wrote: »

Nah, far too naive. Should have just banned the journalist like SAF does. Doesn't matter what he does so just shut them up.

Daniel Taylor said various reporters asked him the questions and that there was around 50 present.

kryogen · 04-01-2012 01:03AM

clubberlang12 wrote: »

When said in the form of a rhetorical question it is no longer a question, but a statement.

While obviously not being 100% sure, i'd be fairly confident that Kenny wasn't asking Marriner if Evra had done this before, more he was insinuating that Evra had done this before.

What is he on about here? If there is other evidence......show it, release it, whatever. He has been pretty blunt in saying that the character of his player has being destroyed and in their initial statement after the charge said they would use all means necessary to clear his name, but yet he is stating that not all the facts have being released. This is crazy talk. Put up or shut up Kenny.

What is Dalgleish on about? I believe he is now trying to perpetuate a conspiracy theory to explain the events and leave his side blameless

Simple really

Exactly, he should either put up or just please, for the sake of everyone, on either side of this, just shut the **** up. Man up and move on

Suarez should apologise, Dalgleish should apologise, if only for the character assasination.

They wont though, unfortunately, its ok though as it says more about them then it does about anybody else

K-9 · 04-01-2012 01:05AM

Xavi6 wrote: »

Photo of Taylor at the press conference -

Lol, it is Daniel Taylor. Should have banned him like SAF did!

cournioni · 04-01-2012 01:06AM

K-9 wrote: »

Nah, far too naive. Should have just banned the journalist like SAF does. Doesn't matter what he does so just shut them up.

He should have indeed. At least then he wouldn't have to reply with such arrogant, self righteous answers. Instead he chose to do so.

Mr Alan · 04-01-2012 01:07AM

Kryogen, did Utd staff apologise for inventing racist accusations against that Chelsea fella?

Did Evra apologise to him for lying about what happened that day?

Or did Ferguson come out and blast the decision & the FA for making it?

K-9 · 04-01-2012 01:08AM

Blatter wrote: »

Daniel Taylor said various reporters asked him the questions and that there was around 50 present.

Far too naive. Anything Kenny says is going to be twisted, even saying nothing.

Sometimes an outright press ban on questions about things like Suarez is a good idea. People will moan anyway as SAF knows well.

cournioni · 04-01-2012 01:12AM

Mr Alan wrote: »

Kryogen, did Utd staff apologise for inventing racist accusations against that Chelsea fella?

Did Evra apologise to him for lying about what happened that day?

Or did Ferguson come out and blast the decision & the FA for making it?

I thought it was a case of the FA being unable to discipline Chelsea as it did not involve Chelsea playing or coaching staff rather than United's accusations being disproven...

Mr Alan · 04-01-2012 01:16AM

cournioni wrote: »

I thought it was a case of the FA being unable to discipline Chelsea as it did not involve Chelsea playing or coaching staff rather than United's accusations being disproven...

That was to do with charging them for the general brawl.

The FA found that the racial element was fabricated by Utd staff & that Evra and them lied & exaggerated throughout the proceedings.

Probably part of the reason the Utd staff were so on the ball with their testimonies in this case tbh.

kryogen · 04-01-2012 01:18AM

Mr Alan wrote: »

Kryogen, did Utd staff apologise for inventing racist accusations against that Chelsea fella?

Did Evra apologise to him for lying about what happened that day?

Or did Ferguson come out and blast the decision & the FA for making it?

Ah there you are, been looking for you

Im interested to get your thoughts on the recent developments as you seemed to be keeping a low profile, possibly given the corner you had painted yourself in to?

to answer your points,

No they didnt, and Mike really should have, so thats his shame, do two wrongs make a right?

The FA found that Evra had exaggerated, not lied, so no need to to apologise for lying, he just gave the story legs which hurt him in the long run, but the crux of exaggeration is that it is based on fact, not a lie

Fergie has had a long running battle with the FA, so no he didnt take the judgement with the grace that you would have, oh hang on.........I can tell you he didnt handle the situation anywhere like how Dalgleish has and again do two wrongs make a right?

cournioni · 04-01-2012 01:18AM

K-9 wrote: »

Far too naive. Anything Kenny says is going to be twisted, even saying nothing.

Sometimes an outright press ban on questions about things like Suarez is a good idea. People will moan anyway as SAF knows well.

More irresponsible than naive. Does Dalglish and Liverpool not realise that what they are saying is damaging both their own reputation and footballs reputation in England by coming out with such statements. They have an obligation as sports stars and idols to set a good example for kids growing up playing and watching the sport. The message that they are sending out to everybody with their statements is that racism is ok and the any authority figure is wrong to punish us and our player for it.

kryogen · 04-01-2012 01:19AM

K-9 wrote: »

Far too naive. Anything Kenny says is going to be twisted, even saying nothing.

Sometimes an outright press ban on questions about things like Suarez is a good idea. People will moan anyway as SAF knows well.

Hard to twist the actual transcript though is it not?

Blatter · 04-01-2012 01:20AM

Mr Alan wrote: »

That was to do with charging them for the general brawl.

The FA found that the racial element was fabricated by Utd staff & that Evra and them lied & exaggerated throughout the proceedings.

Probably part of the reason the Utd staff were so on the ball with their testimonies in this case tbh.

I asked you this before and didn't get an answer but here's hoping this time.

If the FA found that United staff had fabricated a claim of racism, then why weren't they charged? Surely there'd be a punishment if that was found, no?

cournioni · 04-01-2012 01:22AM

Mr Alan wrote: »

That was to do with charging them for the general brawl.

The FA found that the racial element was fabricated by Utd staff & that Evra and them lied & exaggerated throughout the proceedings.

Probably part of the reason the Utd staff were so on the ball with their testimonies in this case tbh.

Can you please send a link to the FA statement where the FA said that Evra and the United coaching staff lied?? Good lad.

Seaneh · 04-01-2012 01:24AM

Honestly, this entire thing baffles me.

I speak south american spanish.

Negro is not a ****ing offensive word.

Luis Suerez would use negro without even realising he was using it, the same way people drop mate, buddy, sham, dude, man or fella into sentences without realising they are all over this country.

The only problem here is the idiocy of the media, the general public and the FA.

There is such a stupid fear of being seen as supporting racism and the FA are so blinded that they claim he had to have meant it offensively, they said that the fact the couldnt remember how many times he said it was a clear indicator he meant it offensively.

The fact that he couldnt even remember using the word half the time he does, to me, screams he just happens to ****ing use the word in sentences.

The people on here, and elsewhere, who are too stupid to see a linguistical misfortune as someone throwing racial slurs, I really pity you all.

Mr Alan · 04-01-2012 01:26AM

kryogen wrote: »

Ah there you are, been looking for you

Im interested to get your thoughts on the recent developments as you seemed to be keeping a low profile, possibly given the corner you had painted yourself in to?

to answer your points,

No they didnt, and Mike really should have, so thats his shame, do two wrongs make a right?

The FA found that Evra had exaggerated, not lied, so no need to to apologise for lying, he just gave the story legs which hurt him in the long run, but the crux of exaggeration is that it is based on fact, not a lie

Fergie has had a long running battle with the FA, so no he didnt take the judgement with the grace that you would have, oh hang on.........I can tell you he didnt handle the situation anywhere like how Dalgleish has and again do two wrongs make a right?

Actually, the commission found Evra's, Phelans & Co's evidence exagerated & unreliable. They found what they said and what actually happened were different, ie. They lied.

As for the two wrongs thing, I'm simply pointing out the ridiculous high horse attitude that Utd fans have adopted here is beyond hypocritical.

Blatter wrote: »

I asked you this before and didn't get an answer but here's hoping this time.

If the FA found that United staff had fabricated a claim of racism, then why weren't they charged? Surely there'd be a punishment if that was found, no?

No idea.

Possibly for the same reason that Evra didn't get a 4 game ban for abusive/insulting language like Suarez did? No idea what that is mind.

kryogen · 04-01-2012 01:26AM

Seaneh wrote: »

Honestly, this entire thing baffles me.

I speak south american spanish.

Negro is not a ****ing offensive word.

Luis Suerez would use negro without even realising he was using it, the same way people drop mate, buddy, sham, dude, man or fella into sentences without realising they are all over this country.

The only problem here is the idiocy of the media, the general public and the FA.

There is such a stupid fear of being seen as supporting racism and the FA are so blinded that they claim he had to have meant it offensively, they said that the fact the couldnt remember how many times he said it was a clear indicator he meant it offensively.

The fact that he couldnt even remember using the word half the time he does, to me, screams he just happens to ****ing use the word in sentences.

The people on here, and elsewhere, who are too stupid to see a linguistical misfortune as someone throwing racial slurs, I really pity you all.

Personally I pity people who cant see the wood for the trees

Mr Alan · 04-01-2012 01:28AM

cournioni wrote: »

Can you please send a link to the FA statement where the FA said that Evra and the United coaching staff lied?? Good lad.

Find it yourself 'lad'.

Racism - Mod Note on 1st Post - Read before posting.

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