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Bertie's 367K secretarial expenses since 2008

245

Comments

  • #32
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Mark200 wrote: »
    Are you not saying that there was money leftover and not spent on what it was supposed to be spent on?

    AGAIN to repeat, I was hoping some would have the intelligence to concluded that:
    ...They might in the current times, think about reducing the amount actually given out OR have those that need these items, to apply for them, submit the paperwork with a quote from a business, have an exact cheque issued for such items - and guess what, the reminder of the possible €1500 can stay with the state!

    In fact, rather than they also taking cuts in these areas, that have in fact INCREASED their expenses in these areas!

    For example on Dec 1st last month (remember, 5 days before the budget when we were told all would be feeling the pinch of the government!)

    Sean Flemming. TD.
    When the Taoiseach’s script writers met with him last week they scripted a speech with the message that we are all in this together and that the Government was going to be fair. However, they had hardly left the room when the Taoiseach approved an 18% increase in travel and subsistence for senior officials of his Department. Staff in the Taoiseach’s Office have had their travel and subsistence allowance increased from €275,000 to €325,000. I know what happened when the script writers left the room.

    ...Also, contract legal services for the Attorney General’s Office, which comes under the remit of the Taoiseach, are to be increased to €668,925, a 38% increase...

    ...At a time when the Minister for Finance is asking everyone else to take a cut, he has increased salaries in his Department from €17.8 billion to €20.5 billion, an increase of 15%.

    ...The Minister, Deputy Howlin, is increasing consultancy charges (WTF?) in his Department by 43%

    ...He is also increasing his Department’s office expenses by 27% and there is an increase of 11% for retired civil servants. The Office of Public Works, which comes within the remit of the Minister, Deputy Howlin, is increasing its office expenditure by 8%.

    ...Will the Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Burton, who left the Chamber a few minutes ago, explain to those on whom she proposes to impose cuts the reason she has increased office expenditure in her Department by 23%, from €11.9 million to €14.7 million?

    Source: http://www.kildarestreet.com/debates/?id=2011-12-05.10.0

    I am aware of such things because I deliberately stay informed and am informed directly from the Dail about such things by people within it.
    Thats how I know some of the crap I do. The public seriously don't know half of the stuff that goes on via the offices of certain Dublin buildings - inc the Dail and those within it!

    Example: I assume you missed the story involving the two Fine Gael TDs, Joe McHugh and Olwyn Enright, who got married in 2005. As reported the happy couple continued to claim separate €140 overnight allowances for three years, pulling in an extra €30,000. LINK: http://www.finfacts.ie/finfactsblog/2009/04/irish-golden-fleece-award-minister.html

    Nice eh!


  • #33
    Mark200
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,536 ✭✭✭Mark200


    Biggins wrote: »
    Mark200 wrote: »
    Are you not saying that there was money leftover and not spent on what it was supposed to be spent on?

    AGAIN to repeat, I was hoping some would have the intelligence to concluded that:
    ...They might in the current times, think about reducing the amount actually given out OR have those that need these items, to apply for them, submit the paperwork with a quote from a business, have an exact cheque issued for such items - and guess what, the reminder of the possible €1500 can stay with the state!

    In fact, rather than they also taking cuts in these areas, that have in fact INCREASED their expenses in these areas!

    For example on Dec 1st last month (remember, 5 days before the budget when we were told all would be feeling the pinch of the government!)

    Sean Flemming. TD.
    When the Taoiseach’s script writers met with him last week they scripted a speech with the message that we are all in this together and that the Government was going to be fair. However, they had hardly left the room when the Taoiseach approved an 18% increase in travel and subsistence for senior officials of his Department. Staff in the Taoiseach’s Office have had their travel and subsistence allowance increased from €275,000 to €325,000. I know what happened when the script writers left the room.

    ...Also, contract legal services for the Attorney General’s Office, which comes under the remit of the Taoiseach, are to be increased to €668,925, a 38% increase...

    ...At a time when the Minister for Finance is asking everyone else to take a cut, he has increased salaries in his Department from €17.8 billion to €20.5 billion, an increase of 15%.

    ...The Minister, Deputy Howlin, is increasing consultancy charges (WTF?) in his Department by 43%

    ...He is also increasing his Department’s office expenses by 27% and there is an increase of 11% for retired civil servants. The Office of Public Works, which comes within the remit of the Minister, Deputy Howlin, is increasing its office expenditure by 8%.

    ...Will the Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Burton, who left the Chamber a few minutes ago, explain to those on whom she proposes to impose cuts the reason she has increased office expenditure in her Department by 23%, from €11.9 million to €14.7 million?

    Source: http://www.kildarestreet.com/debates/?id=2011-12-05.10.0

    I am aware of such things because I deliberately stay informed and am informed directly from the Dail about such things by people within it.
    Thats how I know some of the crap I do. The public seriously don't know half of the stuff that goes on via the offices of certain Dublin buildings - inc the Dail and those within it!
    I don't really see how that post answered my question at all. It's nice that you have a friend in the Dail though. Thanks for sharing.


  • #34
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Mark200 wrote: »
    ...Thanks for sharing.

    I have a trusted number - and someone has to keep an eye on the buggers!
    ...And not just always rely on a press/media which prints stuff, often with its own deliberative political spin.

    And I did answer to your:
    Originally Posted by Mark200
    Are you not saying that there was money leftover and not spent on what it was supposed to be spent on
    Did you miss my reply?
    AGAIN to repeat, I was hoping some would have the intelligence to concluded that:

    ...They might in the current times, think about reducing the amount actually given out OR have those that need these items, to apply for them, submit the paperwork with a quote from a business, have an exact cheque issued for such items - and guess what, the reminder of the possible €1500 can stay with the state!

    I think once again, your only seeing/reading what you want to and ignoring the rest!


  • #35
    Mark200
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,536 ✭✭✭Mark200


    Biggins wrote: »
    Mark200 wrote: »
    ...Thanks for sharing.

    I have a trusted number - and someone has to keep an eye on the buggers!
    ...And not just always rely on a press/media which prints stuff, often with its own deliberative political spin.

    And I did answer to your:
    Originally Posted by Mark200
    Are you not saying that there was money leftover and not spent on what it was supposed to be spent on
    Did you miss my reply?
    AGAIN to repeat, I was hoping some would have the intelligence to concluded that:

    ...They might in the current times, think about reducing the amount actually given out OR have those that need these items, to apply for them, submit the paperwork with a quote from a business, have an exact cheque issued for such items - and guess what, the reminder of the possible €1500 can stay with the state!

    I think once again, your only seeing/reading what you want to and ignoring the rest!
    Yes again well done on the friend.

    That still doesn't answer my question. You seem to be suggesting an alternative system. We were talking about money that had already been given out.


  • #36
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,227 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Freddie59 wrote: »
    The Greeks go out, protest, throw a few rocks around and hey presto - a 50% reduction.
    :

    You forgot "murder a couple of people"

    The_Kew_Tour wrote: »
    and people would still vote for FF in next General Election

    Not all former toaisigh are FF........


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  • #37
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Mark200 wrote: »
    Yes again well done on the friend.

    That still doesn't answer my question. You seem to be suggesting an alternative system. We were talking about money that had already been given out.

    There is nothing know that can be done about the money that has been given out.
    If you want to now what they did with their leftovers, I politely suggest that you contact individual offices.
    Myself, I suspect they will never tell and expose themselves to being possibly letting such things slip into the public domain!

    ...The only thing that has run off on Mr Aherns printer of any substance, I suspect is a draft of his book!
    (If his book can be called "substance!")


  • #38
    ColeTrain
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭ColeTrain


    ilovesleep wrote: »
    Don't forget about Bertie renotvating his office for 200,000 plus euro

    The same price as a fcuking mortgage for a house and that was for one office. When we did up a room here at home it cost us 3000 euro. Bertie's office should have cost more than 5000. 10,000 at the very most and that's being generous. One would have to wonder where did the other 190,000 go to.

    Stationery?


  • #39
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    ColeTrain wrote: »
    Stationery?

    Well there will always be a demand for envelopes!
    A lot get lost under desks.


  • #40
    Mark200
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,536 ✭✭✭Mark200


    Biggins wrote: »
    Mark200 wrote: »
    Yes again well done on the friend.

    That still doesn't answer my question. You seem to be suggesting an alternative system. We were talking about money that had already been given out.

    There is nothing know that can be done about the money that has been given out.
    If you want to now what they did with their leftovers, I politely suggest that you contact individual offices.
    Myself, I suspect they will never tell and expose themselves to being possibly letting such things slip into the public domain!

    ...The only thing that has run off on Mr Aherns printer of any substance, I suspect is a draft of his book!
    (If his book can be called "substance!")
    I wonder if you're deliberately missing the point or if you really think you're replying to what I'm saying.

    I'm not asking what can be done about money already given out.

    My original point was that you were clearly implying that the €1500 that was claimed to have been spent on computer equipment could not have all been spent on computer equipment.

    Therefore you're quite obviously saying that either someone pocketed the remaining money or that they spent ~3 times the cost on what they wanted. I asked you how you can say this since you don't actually know what he bought. It's at this point that you started saying I was putting words in your mouth and then decided to tell me about your amazingly innovative new expenses claims system, and mentioning your friend.


  • #41
    rabjoshu
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 182 ✭✭rabjoshu


    Is there a list of entitlements that elected/retired politicans receive?
    It appears they receive some thick manual on how to milk the system to the optimal level.


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  • #42
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    rabjoshu wrote: »
    Is there a list of entitlements that elected/retired politicans receive?
    It appears they receive some thick manual on how to milk the system to the optimal level.

    The list as such is all over the place on government sites.
    They make it hard to find the stuff under any one section - but here is a small help:

    * http://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2011-06-28.639.0&s=TD+entitlements#g641.0.r

    * http://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2010-09-29.3557.0&s=TD+entitlements#g3559.0.r

    (Looks like their site might have problems!)


  • #43
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Mark200 wrote: »
    ...My original point was that you were clearly implying that the €1500 that was claimed to have been spent on computer equipment could not have all been spent on computer equipment.

    Aaa... NO!
    Thats what your trying to say, I'd said.

    I said that there are less costly PC's, etc in the present day and that alternative methods of allowing expenditure, need to be drawn up!

    How many times are you going to ignore what I have actually stated - and try spin it as something else?
    Mark200 wrote: »
    ...Therefore you're quite obviously saying that either someone pocketed the remaining money or that they spent ~3 times the cost on what they wanted. I asked you how you can say this...

    *sigh*
    Christ almighty!
    Mark200 wrote: »
    ...It's at this point that you started saying I was putting words in your mouth and then decided to tell me about your amazingly innovative new expenses claims system, and mentioning your friend.

    The above speaks for itself!

    O' and P.S. - As for "innovative new expenses claims system" - if you knew your stuff, you'd know there ALREADY such a system being used in the Dail and Office of public expenditure - its just not being applied to these instances!
    I'm wondering why they don't extend the present system!
    It would save more money big time?


  • #44
    CrazyRabbit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,659 ✭✭✭CrazyRabbit


    Another former taoiseach, Liam Cosgrave, is not recorded as having claimed under the scheme.

    Bring back Liam?


  • #45
    Mark200
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,536 ✭✭✭Mark200


    Biggins wrote: »
    Mark200 wrote: »
    ...My original point was that you were clearly implying that the €1500 that was claimed to have been spent on computer equipment could not have all been spent on computer equipment.

    Aaa... NO!
    Thats what your trying to say, I'd said.

    I said that there are less costly PC's, etc in the present day and that alternative methods of allowing expenditure, need to be drawn up!

    How many times are you going to ignore what I have actually stated - and try spin it as something else?
    My original point still stands that you are drawing conclusions that he wasted money despite not knowing what was bought with it.

    Or if you're going to try imply "wasted money" is a spin, then replace with "overspent" or "overcharged" or whatever suits.


  • #46
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Mark200 wrote: »
    My original point still stands that you are drawing conclusions that he wasted money despite not knowing what was bought with it.

    Or if you're going to try imply "wasted money" is a spin, then replace with "overspent" or "overcharged" or whatever suits.

    I might say (AND I AM) that a lot of money that is being given out might be going wasted.
    Be it sitting in accounts building up for stuff that might never be bought and/or needed - when in fact exact amounts instead should be given out as and when (with proof of quote and justification) such items can be passed along one way or another.

    How in gods name have you not made that out already?


  • #47
    Mark200
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,536 ✭✭✭Mark200


    Biggins wrote: »
    Mark200 wrote: »
    My original point still stands that you are drawing conclusions that he wasted money despite not knowing what was bought with it.

    Or if you're going to try imply "wasted money" is a spin, then replace with "overspent" or "overcharged" or whatever suits.

    I might say (AND I AM) that a lot of money that is being given out might be going wasted.
    Be it sitting in accounts building up for stuff that might never be bought and/or needed - when in fact exact amounts instead should be given out as and when (with proof of quote and justification) such items can be passed along one way or another.

    How in gods name have you not made that out already?
    We were talking about a very specific claim, not claims in general.


  • #48
    Zebra3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,299 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Downlinz wrote: »
    Load of BS, head office in the land and you seriously expect him to be using Lidl printers? 1,500 is not an excessive amount to spend on computing equipment for matters of national importance.

    This thread has nothing to do with those currently in the top office in the land.


  • #49
    Freddie59
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭Freddie59


    Mark200 wrote: »
    I think you need to pay more attention to the news if you really hold such a simplistic view of the situation.

    It is very simple. Bankrupt entities bailed out by the taxpayer, with said taxpayer then being asked to prop up a PS and SW bill that is beyond ridiculous - even by Irish standards. But, hey, while some people seek to justify it then it's hardly likely that anything will change. But one day we WILL run out of money. And that day is approaching. Fast.


  • #50
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Mark200 wrote: »
    We were talking about a very specific claim, not claims in general.

    No, your trying to make it about one claim. Speaking for everyone else now with the "We" ?
    Some of us are talking about the whole topic that needs to be addressed.
    Your just being belligerent and pedantic!


  • #51
    Freddie59
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭Freddie59


    Mark200 wrote: »
    What if he got a laser printer so that he wouldn't have to wait 20 minutes for your top of the range printer to print one report?

    Are you actually a retired TD? NOTHING can justify this waste. Absolutely NOTHING. And why would this report be so urgent anyway? From someone who fcuked the place up in the first instance?


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  • #52
    Freddie59
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭Freddie59


    Biggins wrote: »
    No, your trying to make it about one claim. Speaking for everyone lese now with the "We" ?
    Some of us are talking about the whole topic.
    Your just being belligerent and pedantic!
    +1 to that.


  • #53
    Mark200
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,536 ✭✭✭Mark200


    Freddie59 wrote: »
    Mark200 wrote: »
    I think you need to pay more attention to the news if you really hold such a simplistic view of the situation.

    It is very simple. Bankrupt entities bailed out by the taxpayer, with said taxpayer then being asked to prop up a PS and SW bill that is beyond ridiculous - even by Irish standards. But, hey, while some people seek to justify it then it's hardly likely that anything will change. But one day we WILL run out of money. And that day is approaching. Fast.
    I was responding to your interpretation of what is happening in Greece


  • #54
    Freddie59
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭Freddie59


    Downlinz wrote: »
    Load of BS, head office in the land and you seriously expect him to be using Lidl printers? 1,500 is not an excessive amount to spend on computing equipment for matters of national importance. Good software and network security for a start isn't cheap.

    People need to cop on and realise that while these people were no saints they're not the comic book villain yielding a big with the dollar sign on it that you'd like them to be.

    Sick of all you moaners, just bear in mind there are children out there who'll have got more expensive computing equipment than that this very christmas. And sure I'm sure if he skimped and got cheap **** and had documents of national importance leaked you'd be the very same people to complain about a lack of professional?

    Given that he is a RETIRED Taoiseach, what would these issues of "national importance" be, precisely?

    Not the comic book villains? Your opinion.......


  • #55
    Mark200
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,536 ✭✭✭Mark200


    Biggins wrote: »
    Mark200 wrote: »
    We were talking about a very specific claim, not claims in general.

    No, your trying to make it about one claim. Speaking for everyone else now with the "We" ?
    Some of us are talking about the whole topic that needs to be addressed.
    Your just being belligerent and pedantic!
    Sorry when you replied about that one claim on computer equipment suggesting that too much was spent, I assumed you were talking about that one claim on computer equipment. My mistake


  • #56
    Mark200
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,536 ✭✭✭Mark200


    Freddie59 wrote: »
    Mark200 wrote: »
    What if he got a laser printer so that he wouldn't have to wait 20 minutes for your top of the range printer to print one report?

    Are you actually a retired TD? NOTHING can justify this waste. Absolutely NOTHING. And why would this report be so urgent anyway? From someone who fcuked the place up in the first instance?
    No.

    And I'm not defending waste.


  • #57
    Freddie59
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭Freddie59


    Mark200 wrote: »
    I was responding to your interpretation of what is happening in Greece

    Direct comparison. One country lay down and took it up the ass, another revolted and got results.


  • #58
    Tango One
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,053 ✭✭✭Tango One


    Just looking at the expensive for Haughey he died June 2006 but managed to claim more for that year than the previous full year, plus he claim 136euro in 2007 even though he was dead!.

    Link


  • #59
    Mark200
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,536 ✭✭✭Mark200


    Freddie59 wrote: »
    Mark200 wrote: »
    I was responding to your interpretation of what is happening in Greece

    Direct comparison. One country lay down and took it up the ass, another revolted and got results.
    It says a lot that you'd prefer Ireland to be in Greece's situation.


  • #60
    Freddie59
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭Freddie59


    Mark200 wrote: »
    No.

    And I'm not defending waste.

    Yes you are. A RETIRED Taoiseach spends €1500 on equipment he could have got for half that (he shouldn't be getting any allowances AT ALL) and you're becoming all indignant because people are (rightfully) criticising this blatant waste of public funds.


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  • #61
    Freddie59
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭Freddie59


    Mark200 wrote: »
    It says a lot that you'd prefer Ireland to be in Greece's situation.

    No, I'd prefer Ireland not to be in this situation at all. Greece brought it upon themselves - a Golden circle of greedy idiots and their supporters brought it upon us.


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