Bertie's 367K secretarial expenses since 2008

take everything

Wow.
Sums up the state of affairs in Ireland today IMO.

chin_grin

Wow. Sums up the state of threads not actually quoting the article they're linking to. :pac:

Government withdraws expenses for former taoisigh (That looks weird to me. Did they spell it incorrectly?!)

PAUL CULLEN, Political Staff

THE ENTITLEMENT of former taoisigh to a range of perks has ended, a move that will particularly hit Bertie Ahern, who has claimed €367,000 for secretarial services since 2008.

The expenses relate to secretarial assistants, computer equipment, telephone costs and airport VIP facilities paid for by the State. The Department of the Taoiseach stopped paying for these services in respect of former taoisigh yesterday.

The provision of secretarial services for Mr Ahern since 2008 is more than all other former taoisigh combined. He has also run up mobile phone bills of almost €11,000.

Before the cutback announced by Taoiseach Enda Kenny last month, Mr Ahern and other former taoisigh were entitled to two secretarial assistants in the five years after stepping down, and one thereafter.

The arrangement was put in place in 2001 to facilitate former holders of the office to carry out public roles and deal with correspondence as well as “co-operating with researchers in various areas such as history, administration and political science”, according to the department.

Mr Ahern incurred secretarial costs of €75,000 in 2008, €114,000 in 2009, €107,000 in 2010 and €71,000 last year. His phone bills peaked at €3,500 in 2009 and amounted to €2,200 between January and August last year.

Fianna Fáil leader Micheál Martin is among those who have said the expenses paid to his former cabinet colleague under the scheme are too high and should be reduced.

The provision of secretarial services for Brian Cowen cost €32,000 last year, while the bill for the late Dr Garret FitzGerald amounted to €30,000 for the period last year up to his death in May. The department also paid €25,000 in respect of a secretary for Albert Reynolds and €16,000 for John Bruton. Dr FitzGerald also got €2,000 and Mr Cowen got almost €1,500 to buy computer equipment since the scheme started.

Another former taoiseach, Liam Cosgrave, is not recorded as having claimed under the scheme.

The entitlement of former taoisigh to a State car, other than on important State occasions, was withdrawn last June, while their pensions, along with those of other high earners in the public service, were cut by 20 per cent last month.

The Dublin Airport Authority said it had been informed last month that the department would no longer be paying for VIP facilities for former taoisigh at Irish airports. A VIP package at Dublin airport, including assistance with customs and immigration and retrieval of baggage, costs at least €160 plus VAT. Latest figures show the State spent almost €4,000 on this service in 2009.

Officials from the Department of Foreign Affairs have traditionally provided assistance to former taoisigh at foreign airports on request, according to the department.

take everything

chin_grin wrote: »

Wow. Sums up the state of threads not actually quoting the article they're linking to. :pac:

The relevant article is the linked article.

Cookie_Monster

Mr Ahern and other former taoisigh were entitled to two secretarial assistants in the five years after stepping down, and one thereafter.

why, just why? One is bad enough, but two

Freddie59

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

why, just why? One is bad enough, but two

It's Ireland. That's why. We moan on fora such as this one, but do little else (myself included). The Greeks go out, protest, throw a few rocks around and hey presto - a 50% reduction.

I know it's been done to death but the situation is completely surreal and GUBU:

* Private, bankrupt, business entities bailed out by the taxpayer (while the taxpayer was not at fault).

* No-one prosecuted (or ever will be).

* A bankrupt State which insists that "contracts must be honoured with its employees" - while using money that should be protecting our most vulnerable in order to do so.

* The current Government's slash and burn policies supported by a so-called "Labour Party".

The list is truly endless. It is incredible to believe that all this has happened, and, for a country which would hold a referendum at the drop of a hat for the most ridiculous things, we weren't even asked if it was OK.

FFS.:mad:

Biggins

Mr Cowen got almost €1,500 to buy computer equipment since the scheme started.

Now unless Mr Cowan is an avid gamer and needs a suped-up one, an excellent pc with software can be got for 500/600+.

€1,500

Himmm...

The_Kew_Tour

and people would still vote for FF in next General Election

Mark200

Freddie59 wrote:

The Greeks go out, protest, throw a few rocks around and hey presto - a 50% reduction.

I think you need to pay more attention to the news if you really hold such a simplistic view of the situation.

Mark200

Biggins wrote: »

Mr Cowen got almost €1,500 to buy computer equipment since the scheme started.

Now unless Mr Cowan is an avid gamer and needs a suped-up one, an excellent pc with software can be got for 500/600+.

€1,500

Himmm...

What about a printer/photocopier, detective?

ejmaztec

Biggins wrote: »

Now unless Mr Cowan is an avid gamer and needs a suped-up one, an excellent pc with software can be got for 500/600+.

€1,500

Himmm...

He probably needed three in case two of them conked out.

ilovesleep

Freddie59 wrote: »

It's Ireland. That's why. We moan on fora such as this one, but do little else (myself included). The Greeks go out, protest, throw a few rocks around and hey presto - a 50% reduction.

I know it's been done to death but the situation is completely surreal and GUBU:

* Private, bankrupt, business entities bailed out by the taxpayer (while the taxpayer was not at fault).

* No-one prosecuted (or ever will be).

* A bankrupt State which insists that "contracts must be honoured with its employees" - while using money that should be protecting our most vulnerable in order to do so.

* The current Government's slash and burn policies supported by a so-called "Labour Party".

The list is truly endless. It is incredible to believe that all this has happened, and, for a country which would hold a referendum at the drop of a hat for the most ridiculous things, we weren't even asked if it was OK.

FFS.:mad:

Wait for the ignorant blind responses to this something on the lines of: we all bought one or more properties, regular new cars, multiple holidays abroad every year and the latest fancy gadgets and equipment so it's all our fault.
As if the nation were responsible for the banks finances and knew what was happening behind the counter on their balance sheets. Last time I checked I did my own household budgetting and nobody elses.

And we voted FF three times over to allow us to have the lavish, greedy lifestyles described above when the problem lies deeper than this:
Pothole politics
Elections held around exam times and on a weekday
The election buying of certain interest groups

As if the electorate knew FF were going to bankrupt the state and turn the nation into paupers for them and their mates.

Biggins

Mark200 wrote: »

What about a printer/photocopier, detective?

A printer/photocopier can be bought now for far less than €100 - even less than €50 - will that do?

Example:

* http://www.argos.ie/static/Product/partNumber/9040418/Trail/searchtext%3EPRINTER.htm

* http://www.argos.ie/static/Product/partNumber/9040425/Trail/searchtext%3EPRINTER.htm

* http://www.harveynorman.ie/computing?cat=1129&def_system_producttype=2228

Even a top range one at €99 is cheap!
* http://www.harveynorman.ie/canon-mg-5250.html

Its not rocket science!
Jeeze, some people really have to be lead/informed to everything by the hand!

I can get a VERY good PC and printer/copier for 700/800 Euro!
I would have saved €700+ for the state.
Now if all those that was getting those payments added up the money left over, it could be quite a considerable amount.

gerryo777

Freddie59 wrote: »

It's Ireland. That's why. We moan on fora such as this one, but do little else (myself included). The Greeks go out, protest, throw a few rocks around and hey presto - a 50% reduction.

I know it's been done to death but the situation is completely surreal and GUBU:

* Private, bankrupt, business entities bailed out by the taxpayer (while the taxpayer was not at fault).

* No-one prosecuted (or ever will be).

* A bankrupt State which insists that "contracts must be honoured with its employees" - while using money that should be protecting our most vulnerable in order to do so.

* The current Government's slash and burn policies supported by a so-called "Labour Party".

The list is truly endless. It is incredible to believe that all this has happened, and, for a country which would hold a referendum at the drop of a hat for the most ridiculous things, we weren't even asked if it was OK.

FFS.:mad:

Add another €1.25 billion to UNSECURED secondary bondholders in anglo this month... Pure madness!

up for anything

Mr Ahern incurred secretarial costs of €75,000 in 2008, €114,000 in 2009, €107,000 in 2010 and €71,000 last year. His phone bills peaked at €3,500 in 2009 and amounted to €2,200 between January and August last year.

I hate, despise and fear them all but this fucker is beginning to make Haughey look like a small time crook and is doing it legally.

ilovesleep

Don't forget about Bertie renotvating his office for 200,000 plus euro

The same price as a fcuking mortgage for a house and that was for one office. When we did up a room here at home it cost us 3000 euro. Bertie's office should have cost more than 5000. 10,000 at the very most and that's being generous. One would have to wonder where did the other 190,000 go to.

gerryo777

ilovesleep wrote: »

Don't forget about Bertie renotvating his office for 200,000 plus euro

The same price as a fcuking mortgage for a house and that was for one office. When we did up a room here at home it cost us 3000 euro. Bertie's office should have cost more than 5000. 10,000 at the very most and that's being generous. One would have to wonder where did the other 190,000 go to.

To paddy de plasterer maybe.....
Hopefully this leeching f**k ahern will drop dead sooner rather than later.......

Biggins

Now don't stress over Mr Ahern!
Mr Ahern will be just fine with his gross pension of €139,785.34 a year – not to mention €40,00 for every speaking trip to Nigeria!
At €2496 a week he still gets for life, its is a sickening amount wasted!
Cowen gets €138,769.42 a year by the way!

...And the above will be on top of directorships, other jobs, etc that they do weekly!

Zebra3

Biggins wrote: »

Now unless Mr Cowan is an avid gamer and needs a suped-up one, an excellent pc with software can be got for 500/600+.

€1,500

Himmm...

Or maybe even the fat c**t could've just dipped into his six figure pension that we're paying him as his reward for failure.

Epic failure.

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Mark200

Biggins wrote: »

Mark200 wrote: »

What about a printer/photocopier, detective?

A printer/photocopier can be bought now for far less than €100 - even less than €50 - will that do?

Example:

* http://www.argos.ie/static/Product/partNumber/9040418/Trail/searchtext%3EPRINTER.htm

* http://www.argos.ie/static/Product/partNumber/9040425/Trail/searchtext%3EPRINTER.htm

* http://www.harveynorman.ie/computing?cat=1129&def_system_producttype=2228

Even a top range one at €99 is cheap!
* http://www.harveynorman.ie/canon-mg-5250.html

Its not rocket science!
Jeeze, some people really have to be lead/informed to everything by the hand!

I can get a VERY good PC and printer/copier for 700/800 Euro!
I would have saved €700+ for the state.
Now if all those that was getting those payments added up the money left over, it could be quite a considerable amount.

What if he got a laser printer so that he wouldn't have to wait 20 minutes for your top of the range printer to print one report?

cloud493

Why's he been given all that money?

Biggins

Mark200 wrote: »

What if he got a laser printer so that he wouldn't have to wait 20 minutes for your top of the range printer to print one report?

Are you for real? Are you seriously that badly informed as to the capabilities of STANDARD printers today and as to their speeds?
Christ man, you need to go back to school or at least to to the computer section here and get an education!

O' and by the way, Samsung colour laser printers alone (for example) can be bought for €160.

Mark200

Biggins wrote: »

Mark200 wrote: »

What if he got a laser printer so that he wouldn't have to wait 20 minutes for your top of the range printer to print one report?

Are you for real? Are you seriously that badly informed as to the capabilities of STANDARD printers today and as to their speeds?
Christ man, you need to go back to school or at least to to the computer section here and get an education!

O' and by the way, Samsung colour laser printers alone (for example) can be bought for €160.

Sorry for assuming that the speed on the page you linked to was accurate.


Anyway my point was that you were gently implying that Cowen was either pocketing expenses or spending 3 times the cost of something for no reason, when in fact yoy don't have a clue what it was actually spent on. For no reason assuming 'Computer Equipment' means one single computer.

There are plenty of reasons to hate Cowen and FF. What really annoys me is the eagerness to make up reasons from non-stories.

Downlinz

Load of BS, head office in the land and you seriously expect him to be using Lidl printers? 1,500 is not an excessive amount to spend on computing equipment for matters of national importance. Good software and network security for a start isn't cheap.

People need to cop on and realise that while these people were no saints they're not the comic book villain yielding a big with the dollar sign on it that you'd like them to be.

Sick of all you moaners, just bear in mind there are children out there who'll have got more expensive computing equipment than that this very christmas. And sure I'm sure if he skimped and got cheap **** and had documents of national importance leaked you'd be the very same people to complain about a lack of professional?

gigino

Us the Irish people are to blame for putting up with all these ex-Taoiseach, ex-tanaistes, ex-Presidents, ex-TD's, ex-senators etc creaming the system. Lokk at young Many Coughlan for example, Cowens sidekick, on a pension of 140k a year I think ? Plus the other perks we only hear about now and again. ( renumeration for being directors of this + that etc, other expense accounts etc )

People who destroyed the country should be answering questions, not rewarded.

Biggins

Mark200 wrote: »

Anyway my point was that you were gently implying that Cowen was either pocketing expenses or spending 3 times the cost of something for no reason, when in fact you don't have a clue what it was actually spent on. For no reason assuming 'Computer Equipment' means one single computer.

I implied what? I did not.
I allowed anyone to possibly think that they might in the current times, think about reducing the amount actually given out OR have those that need these items, to apply for them, submit the paperwork with a quote from a business, have an exact cheque issued for such items - and guess what, the reminder of the possible €1500 can stay with the state!

...And if Cowen and co is retired what in gods name do they want with more than one machine?
Cowen has only one pair of hands as does any single secretary they already have working for them - on we can assume a pc that they already have?
Assuming one needs to be updated (do they HAVE to be updated yearly?) even then, it a huge amount that is left over!

Downlinz wrote: »

...I'm sure if he skimped and got cheap **** and had documents of national importance leaked you'd be the very same people to complain about a lack of professional?

Can ANYONE produce any reports, etc that they have produced of ANY national importance since retiring?Anyone? Anything?

Mark200

Biggins wrote: »

Mark200 wrote: »

Anyway my point was that you were gently implying that Cowen was either pocketing expenses or spending 3 times the cost of something for no reason, when in fact you don't have a clue what it was actually spent on. For no reason assuming 'Computer Equipment' means one single computer.

I implied what? I did not.
I allowed anyone to possibly think that they might in the current times, think about reducing the amount actually given out OR have those that need these items, to apply for them, submit the paperwork with a quote from a business, have an exact cheque issued for such items - and guess what, the reminder of the possible €1500 can stay with the state!

...And if Cowen and co is retired what in gods name do they want with more than one machine?
Cowen has only one pair of hands as does any single secretary they already have working for them - on we can assume a pc that they already have?
Assuming one needs to be updated (do they HAVE to be updated yearly?) even then, it a huge amount that is left over!

Downlinz wrote: »

...I'm sure if he skimped and got cheap **** and had documents of national importance leaked you'd be the very same people to complain about a lack of professional?

Can ANYONE produce any reports, etc that they have produced of ANY national importance since retiring?Anyone? Anything?

So what are you thinking that they did with the supposed leftover money?

Also I'd hope that they didn't lift computers fron the Dept of An Taoiseach.

Biggins

Mark200 wrote: »

So what are you thinking that they did with the supposed leftover money?

Good question!

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

gerryo777

Downlinz wrote: »

Load of BS, head office in the land and you seriously expect him to be using Lidl printers? 1,500 is not an excessive amount to spend on computing equipment for matters of national importance. Good software and network security for a start isn't cheap.

People need to cop on and realise that while these people were no saints they're not the comic book villain yielding a big with the dollar sign on it that you'd like them to be.

Sick of all you moaners, just bear in mind there are children out there who'll have got more expensive computing equipment than that this very christmas. And sure I'm sure if he skimped and got cheap **** and had documents of national importance leaked you'd be the very same people to complain about a lack of professional?

Sure aren't we terrible, all of us sitting "cribbing and moaning", I don't know how we don't just go off and commit suicide and be done with it!!!:mad:

Mark200

Biggins wrote: »

Mark200 wrote: »

So what are you thinking that they did with the supposed leftover money?

Good question!

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Yeah clearly not implying anything improper without knowing any of the facts...

Biggins

Mark200 wrote: »

Yeah clearly not implying anything improper without knowing any of the facts...

As the saying goes (or words to the effect)...
I've forgotten more facts than you can possibly now even remember or know.

Don't attempt to put words in my mouth.
You will only end up looking foolish.
Read what I have actually wrote - not what you want to read!

Mark200

Biggins wrote: »

Mark200 wrote: »

Yeah clearly not implying anything improper without knowing any of the facts...

As the saying goes (or words to the effect)...
I've forgotten more facts than you can possibly now even remember or know.

Don't attempt to put words in my mouth.
You will only end up looking foolish.
Read what I have actually wrote - not what you want to read!

Are you not saying that there was money leftover and not spent on what it was supposed to be spent on? We are talking about the facts of this expense claim. Just because you want to think you know more things than me in general does not mean yoy know anything about this expenses claim.

Biggins

Mark200 wrote: »

Are you not saying that there was money leftover and not spent on what it was supposed to be spent on?

AGAIN to repeat, I was hoping some would have the intelligence to concluded that:

...They might in the current times, think about reducing the amount actually given out OR have those that need these items, to apply for them, submit the paperwork with a quote from a business, have an exact cheque issued for such items - and guess what, the reminder of the possible €1500 can stay with the state!

In fact, rather than they also taking cuts in these areas, that have in fact INCREASED their expenses in these areas!

For example on Dec 1st last month (remember, 5 days before the budget when we were told all would be feeling the pinch of the government!)

Sean Flemming. TD.

When the Taoiseach’s script writers met with him last week they scripted a speech with the message that we are all in this together and that the Government was going to be fair. However, they had hardly left the room when the Taoiseach approved an 18% increase in travel and subsistence for senior officials of his Department. Staff in the Taoiseach’s Office have had their travel and subsistence allowance increased from €275,000 to €325,000. I know what happened when the script writers left the room.

...Also, contract legal services for the Attorney General’s Office, which comes under the remit of the Taoiseach, are to be increased to €668,925, a 38% increase...

...At a time when the Minister for Finance is asking everyone else to take a cut, he has increased salaries in his Department from €17.8 billion to €20.5 billion, an increase of 15%.

...The Minister, Deputy Howlin, is increasing consultancy charges (WTF?) in his Department by 43%

...He is also increasing his Department’s office expenses by 27% and there is an increase of 11% for retired civil servants. The Office of Public Works, which comes within the remit of the Minister, Deputy Howlin, is increasing its office expenditure by 8%.

...Will the Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Burton, who left the Chamber a few minutes ago, explain to those on whom she proposes to impose cuts the reason she has increased office expenditure in her Department by 23%, from €11.9 million to €14.7 million?

Source: http://www.kildarestreet.com/debates/?id=2011-12-05.10.0

I am aware of such things because I deliberately stay informed and am informed directly from the Dail about such things by people within it.
Thats how I know some of the crap I do. The public seriously don't know half of the stuff that goes on via the offices of certain Dublin buildings - inc the Dail and those within it!

Example: I assume you missed the story involving the two Fine Gael TDs, Joe McHugh and Olwyn Enright, who got married in 2005. As reported the happy couple continued to claim separate €140 overnight allowances for three years, pulling in an extra €30,000. LINK: http://www.finfacts.ie/finfactsblog/2009/04/irish-golden-fleece-award-minister.html

Nice eh!

Mark200

Biggins wrote: »

Mark200 wrote: »

Are you not saying that there was money leftover and not spent on what it was supposed to be spent on?

AGAIN to repeat, I was hoping some would have the intelligence to concluded that:

...They might in the current times, think about reducing the amount actually given out OR have those that need these items, to apply for them, submit the paperwork with a quote from a business, have an exact cheque issued for such items - and guess what, the reminder of the possible €1500 can stay with the state!

In fact, rather than they also taking cuts in these areas, that have in fact INCREASED their expenses in these areas!

For example on Dec 1st last month (remember, 5 days before the budget when we were told all would be feeling the pinch of the government!)

Sean Flemming. TD.

When the Taoiseach’s script writers met with him last week they scripted a speech with the message that we are all in this together and that the Government was going to be fair. However, they had hardly left the room when the Taoiseach approved an 18% increase in travel and subsistence for senior officials of his Department. Staff in the Taoiseach’s Office have had their travel and subsistence allowance increased from €275,000 to €325,000. I know what happened when the script writers left the room.

...Also, contract legal services for the Attorney General’s Office, which comes under the remit of the Taoiseach, are to be increased to €668,925, a 38% increase...

...At a time when the Minister for Finance is asking everyone else to take a cut, he has increased salaries in his Department from €17.8 billion to €20.5 billion, an increase of 15%.

...The Minister, Deputy Howlin, is increasing consultancy charges (WTF?) in his Department by 43%

...He is also increasing his Department’s office expenses by 27% and there is an increase of 11% for retired civil servants. The Office of Public Works, which comes within the remit of the Minister, Deputy Howlin, is increasing its office expenditure by 8%.

...Will the Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Burton, who left the Chamber a few minutes ago, explain to those on whom she proposes to impose cuts the reason she has increased office expenditure in her Department by 23%, from €11.9 million to €14.7 million?

Source: http://www.kildarestreet.com/debates/?id=2011-12-05.10.0

I am aware of such things because I deliberately stay informed and am informed directly from the Dail about such things by people within it.
Thats how I know some of the crap I do. The public seriously don't know half of the stuff that goes on via the offices of certain Dublin buildings - inc the Dail and those within it!

I don't really see how that post answered my question at all. It's nice that you have a friend in the Dail though. Thanks for sharing.

Biggins

Mark200 wrote: »

...Thanks for sharing.

I have a trusted number - and someone has to keep an eye on the buggers!
...And not just always rely on a press/media which prints stuff, often with its own deliberative political spin.

And I did answer to your:

Originally Posted by Mark200
Are you not saying that there was money leftover and not spent on what it was supposed to be spent on

Did you miss my reply?

AGAIN to repeat, I was hoping some would have the intelligence to concluded that:

...They might in the current times, think about reducing the amount actually given out OR have those that need these items, to apply for them, submit the paperwork with a quote from a business, have an exact cheque issued for such items - and guess what, the reminder of the possible €1500 can stay with the state!

I think once again, your only seeing/reading what you want to and ignoring the rest!

Mark200

Biggins wrote: »

Mark200 wrote: »

...Thanks for sharing.

I have a trusted number - and someone has to keep an eye on the buggers!
...And not just always rely on a press/media which prints stuff, often with its own deliberative political spin.

And I did answer to your:

Originally Posted by Mark200
Are you not saying that there was money leftover and not spent on what it was supposed to be spent on

Did you miss my reply?

AGAIN to repeat, I was hoping some would have the intelligence to concluded that:

...They might in the current times, think about reducing the amount actually given out OR have those that need these items, to apply for them, submit the paperwork with a quote from a business, have an exact cheque issued for such items - and guess what, the reminder of the possible €1500 can stay with the state!

I think once again, your only seeing/reading what you want to and ignoring the rest!

Yes again well done on the friend.

That still doesn't answer my question. You seem to be suggesting an alternative system. We were talking about money that had already been given out.

Guy:Incognito

Freddie59 wrote: »

The Greeks go out, protest, throw a few rocks around and hey presto - a 50% reduction.
:

You forgot "murder a couple of people"

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

and people would still vote for FF in next General Election

Not all former toaisigh are FF........

Biggins

Mark200 wrote: »

Yes again well done on the friend.

That still doesn't answer my question. You seem to be suggesting an alternative system. We were talking about money that had already been given out.

There is nothing know that can be done about the money that has been given out.
If you want to now what they did with their leftovers, I politely suggest that you contact individual offices.
Myself, I suspect they will never tell and expose themselves to being possibly letting such things slip into the public domain!

...The only thing that has run off on Mr Aherns printer of any substance, I suspect is a draft of his book!
(If his book can be called "substance!")

ColeTrain

ilovesleep wrote: »

Don't forget about Bertie renotvating his office for 200,000 plus euro

The same price as a fcuking mortgage for a house and that was for one office. When we did up a room here at home it cost us 3000 euro. Bertie's office should have cost more than 5000. 10,000 at the very most and that's being generous. One would have to wonder where did the other 190,000 go to.

Stationery?

Biggins

ColeTrain wrote: »

Stationery?

Well there will always be a demand for envelopes!
A lot get lost under desks.

Mark200

Biggins wrote: »

Mark200 wrote: »

Yes again well done on the friend.

That still doesn't answer my question. You seem to be suggesting an alternative system. We were talking about money that had already been given out.

There is nothing know that can be done about the money that has been given out.
If you want to now what they did with their leftovers, I politely suggest that you contact individual offices.
Myself, I suspect they will never tell and expose themselves to being possibly letting such things slip into the public domain!

...The only thing that has run off on Mr Aherns printer of any substance, I suspect is a draft of his book!
(If his book can be called "substance!")

I wonder if you're deliberately missing the point or if you really think you're replying to what I'm saying.

I'm not asking what can be done about money already given out.

My original point was that you were clearly implying that the €1500 that was claimed to have been spent on computer equipment could not have all been spent on computer equipment.

Therefore you're quite obviously saying that either someone pocketed the remaining money or that they spent ~3 times the cost on what they wanted. I asked you how you can say this since you don't actually know what he bought. It's at this point that you started saying I was putting words in your mouth and then decided to tell me about your amazingly innovative new expenses claims system, and mentioning your friend.

rabjoshu

Is there a list of entitlements that elected/retired politicans receive?
It appears they receive some thick manual on how to milk the system to the optimal level.

Biggins

rabjoshu wrote: »

Is there a list of entitlements that elected/retired politicans receive?
It appears they receive some thick manual on how to milk the system to the optimal level.

The list as such is all over the place on government sites.
They make it hard to find the stuff under any one section - but here is a small help:

* http://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2011-06-28.639.0&s=TD+entitlements#g641.0.r

* http://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2010-09-29.3557.0&s=TD+entitlements#g3559.0.r

(Looks like their site might have problems!)

Biggins

Mark200 wrote: »

...My original point was that you were clearly implying that the €1500 that was claimed to have been spent on computer equipment could not have all been spent on computer equipment.

Aaa... NO!
Thats what your trying to say, I'd said.

I said that there are less costly PC's, etc in the present day and that alternative methods of allowing expenditure, need to be drawn up!

How many times are you going to ignore what I have actually stated - and try spin it as something else?

Mark200 wrote: »

...Therefore you're quite obviously saying that either someone pocketed the remaining money or that they spent ~3 times the cost on what they wanted. I asked you how you can say this...

*sigh*
Christ almighty!

Mark200 wrote: »

...It's at this point that you started saying I was putting words in your mouth and then decided to tell me about your amazingly innovative new expenses claims system, and mentioning your friend.

The above speaks for itself!

O' and P.S. - As for "innovative new expenses claims system" - if you knew your stuff, you'd know there ALREADY such a system being used in the Dail and Office of public expenditure - its just not being applied to these instances!
I'm wondering why they don't extend the present system!
It would save more money big time?

CrazyRabbit

Another former taoiseach, Liam Cosgrave, is not recorded as having claimed under the scheme.

Bring back Liam?

Mark200

Biggins wrote: »

Mark200 wrote: »

...My original point was that you were clearly implying that the €1500 that was claimed to have been spent on computer equipment could not have all been spent on computer equipment.

Aaa... NO!
Thats what your trying to say, I'd said.

I said that there are less costly PC's, etc in the present day and that alternative methods of allowing expenditure, need to be drawn up!

How many times are you going to ignore what I have actually stated - and try spin it as something else?

My original point still stands that you are drawing conclusions that he wasted money despite not knowing what was bought with it.

Or if you're going to try imply "wasted money" is a spin, then replace with "overspent" or "overcharged" or whatever suits.

Biggins

Mark200 wrote: »

My original point still stands that you are drawing conclusions that he wasted money despite not knowing what was bought with it.

Or if you're going to try imply "wasted money" is a spin, then replace with "overspent" or "overcharged" or whatever suits.

I might say (AND I AM) that a lot of money that is being given out might be going wasted.
Be it sitting in accounts building up for stuff that might never be bought and/or needed - when in fact exact amounts instead should be given out as and when (with proof of quote and justification) such items can be passed along one way or another.

How in gods name have you not made that out already?

Mark200

Biggins wrote: »

Mark200 wrote: »

My original point still stands that you are drawing conclusions that he wasted money despite not knowing what was bought with it.

Or if you're going to try imply "wasted money" is a spin, then replace with "overspent" or "overcharged" or whatever suits.

I might say (AND I AM) that a lot of money that is being given out might be going wasted.
Be it sitting in accounts building up for stuff that might never be bought and/or needed - when in fact exact amounts instead should be given out as and when (with proof of quote and justification) such items can be passed along one way or another.

How in gods name have you not made that out already?

We were talking about a very specific claim, not claims in general.

Zebra3

Downlinz wrote: »

Load of BS, head office in the land and you seriously expect him to be using Lidl printers? 1,500 is not an excessive amount to spend on computing equipment for matters of national importance.

This thread has nothing to do with those currently in the top office in the land.

Freddie59

Mark200 wrote: »

I think you need to pay more attention to the news if you really hold such a simplistic view of the situation.

It is very simple. Bankrupt entities bailed out by the taxpayer, with said taxpayer then being asked to prop up a PS and SW bill that is beyond ridiculous - even by Irish standards. But, hey, while some people seek to justify it then it's hardly likely that anything will change. But one day we WILL run out of money. And that day is approaching. Fast.

Biggins

Mark200 wrote: »

We were talking about a very specific claim, not claims in general.

No, your trying to make it about one claim. Speaking for everyone else now with the "We" ?
Some of us are talking about the whole topic that needs to be addressed.
Your just being belligerent and pedantic!

Freddie59

Mark200 wrote: »

What if he got a laser printer so that he wouldn't have to wait 20 minutes for your top of the range printer to print one report?

Are you actually a retired TD? NOTHING can justify this waste. Absolutely NOTHING. And why would this report be so urgent anyway? From someone who fcuked the place up in the first instance?