Racism - Mod Note on 1st Post - Read before posting.

K-9 · 02-01-2012 01:41AM

SantryRed wrote: »

I'll 100% agree with you on Kuyt. I see no reason to doubt him either. I'm just using his statement along with Comolli to prove that Suarez did indeed imo say "because you are black" and not "Why, black?". All I'm responding to in regards Kuyt is that the fact he says he could have misinterpreted what Suarez said could have been found unreliable due to his previous statement being found untrue with Evra and Marriner. I like Kuyt as a player and think he is a model professional.

Blatter wrote: »

I don't know, I didn't see too many having a go at Kuyt. I suppose some are under the impression that he tried to backtrack and cover for Suarez, that was more Comolli.

I suppose others think he made up the allegation about Evra accusing the referee, although it is possible he was just badly mistaken.

Thank you both, that's the point I was making and glad you seen it.

I think nearly everybody, Pool fan or not sees Kuyt as a good, honest, decent pro and nothing in this report suggests otherwise.

A perfectly reasoned response to my posts addressing my points. No doubt it'll matter little unfortunately.

homerjay2005 · 02-01-2012 01:41AM

greendom wrote: »

So what's the future for Liverpool and Suarez ?

What's the likelihood of an appeal ? I really can't see it myself. What would be the net gain? Prolonging this misery and for what

And does Suarez have a future in English football ? Will he be able to cope with the taunts from the crowd and other players ?

it will look really bad for them and him, if they dont appeal now.

greendom · 02-01-2012 01:51AM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

it will look really bad for them and him, if they dont appeal now.

I agree that they made a bad mistake with the statement and the shirt-wearing and they are now in a very tight corner. I still think better to accept this now than to bring themselves and the game into even more disrepute.

K-9 · 02-01-2012 01:53AM

SantryRed wrote: »

I'll 100% agree with you on Kuyt. I see no reason to doubt him either. I'm just using his statement along with Comolli to prove that Suarez did indeed imo say "because you are black" and not "Why, black?". All I'm responding to in regards Kuyt is that the fact he says he could have misinterpreted what Suarez said could have been found unreliable due to his previous statement being found untrue with Evra and Marriner. I like Kuyt as a player and think he is a model professional.

I suppose the point is, Kuyt was proven wrong in the panels findings on that particular issue, but taken as corroborating evidence on another issue

I understand the different scenarios but it seems Kuyt was accepted as mistaken in one scenario but he couldn't be mistaken in another.

It seems a bit like picking evidence that suits in one scenario, same in another and putting one on top of another.

Suppose its the pitfall of the balance of probabilities. Sure even beyond reasonable doubt has proved troublesome in the past as in the Birmingham 6. and the O'Reilly case mentioned by our legal and financial expert ilovelamp. Rejecting the FA case would have been more troublesome than looking for evidence to prove it, politics and all that and a screaming fan base on top.

Mr.Nice Guy · 02-01-2012 01:54AM

I'm not sure why there is criticism by some on the report when in The Guardian a legal expert on complex disputes said the report was very detailed and thorough and practically appeal-proof. Anti-racism campaigners have also welcomed the FA's report into proceedings.

Is there a possibility Suarez could get an increased ban if an appeal fails, because I noticed the Guardian's expert saying this:

Liverpool face an uphill struggle in overturning the decision, and the risks of trying but failing to do so are huge. Of all the options that are open to him, an appeal should be far down the list.

Anyone know?

J. Marston · 02-01-2012 02:09AM

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I'm not sure why there is criticism by some on the report when in The Guardian a legal expert on complex disputes said the report was very detailed and thorough and practically appeal-proof. Anti-racism campaigners have also welcomed the FA's report into proceedings.

Is there a possibility Suarez could get an increased ban if an appeal fails, because I noticed the Guardian's expert saying this:

Anyone know?

Luis Suarez's eight-match ban for racially abusing Patrice Evra could be increased if he appeals.

Liverpool are almost certain to appeal against the 24-year-old striker's ban but will wait until they see the full written judgement before doing so.

The Football Association have confirmed the ban can be increased, reduced or cancelled altogether by an appeal board.

...

K-9 · 02-01-2012 02:11AM

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I'm not sure why there is criticism by some on the report when in The Guardian a legal expert on complex disputes said the report was very detailed and thorough and practically appeal-proof. Anti-racism campaigners have also welcomed the FA's report into proceedings.

Is there a possibility Suarez could get an increased ban if an appeal fails, because I noticed the Guardian's expert saying this:

Anyone know?

The FA wont rescind the ban, maybe reduce it at best. PR wise it's a disaster for Liverpool, no matter what they do. Accept it, you'll get the usuals, appeal it, you'll get the usuals. Its a no win situation.

It's a Thick of it situation!

Mr.Nice Guy · 02-01-2012 02:27AM

K-9 wrote: »

The FA wont rescind the ban, maybe reduce it at best. PR wise it's a disaster for Liverpool, no matter what they do. Accept it, you'll get the usuals, appeal it, you'll get the usuals. Its a no win situation.

It's a Thick of it situation!

Yeah it's a tough one to call.

smokedeels · 02-01-2012 02:30AM

Looking at the length of time the FA took to reach this decision and the sizable document they've released, Liverpool will need something concrete to have any hope of winning an appeal.

K-9 · 02-01-2012 02:42AM

smokedeels wrote: »

Looking at the length of time the FA took to reach this decision and the sizable document they've released, Liverpool will need something concrete to have any hope of winning an appeal.

Funnilly enough much is made of time by Liverpool fans and otherwise. Liverpool fans complained it took too long, part of that was Suarez looking for time to appeal.

Others, like United fans, took Journalists on Twitter at their word, the same journalists like Daniel Taylor seen as not reputable by many United fans. Apparently the panel reached their verdict on the Friday and took 4/5 days to make sure of it.

It was accepted at the time that the verdict was reached on the Friday and the panel was just making sure. Reading back on this thread will confirm that.

Nothing in my reading of the report corroborates that.

Journalists, sources and twitter, a poor mix!

All they want is the latest scoop, making the back pages look reputable!

02-01-2012 02:59AM

Everyone knows the courts are out to get Liverpool. They're terrified of a young, vibrant, Liverpool with King Kenny at the helm. Most judges are probably United fans, or Chelsea fans, or Spurs fans, or City fans, or Arsenal fans, or Everton fans and they're all ****ting themselves at the idea of Liverpool seriously rivalling their team. And the CPS! They hate Liverpool too, probably jealous. Or scared. Or Mancs. Of course the FA couldn't bear to see Liverpool doing well, probably still bitter over all Liverpool's success. And ****-scared of Fergie, who's probably pulling all the strings behind this. Anyone who's looked at the evidence knows that the only thing Suarez has admitted to is calling Evra a negro, which is ok as long as it's in Spanish! Ask anyone! Except those two independent Spanish experts who concluded that it would definitely be construed as racist, because they're Mancs.

tommyhaas · 02-01-2012 03:07AM

peterswellman wrote: »

Most judges are probably United fans, or Chelsea fans, or Spurs fans, or City fans, or Arsenal fans, or Everton fans

Given that Utd, Chelsea, Spurs, City, Arsenal and Everton are probably 6 of the 7 or 8 top supported clubs in the country, I'd imagine its possible that most judges do support one of the above

What this has to do with the Suarez race case though I don't know. There were no judges involved on the panel, or courts involved as you suggest

Out of interest, are you a sarcastic Utd fan who hasn't bothered with the details of the case and is happy to generalise, or a bitter Liverpool fan who hasn't bothered with the details of the case and is happy to generalise?

everdead.ie · 02-01-2012 03:09AM

tommyhaas wrote: »

peterswellman wrote: »

Most judges are probably United fans, or Chelsea fans, or Spurs fans, or City fans, or Arsenal fans, or Everton fans

Given that Utd, Chelsea, Spurs, City, Arsenal and Everton are probably 6 of the 7 or 8 top supported clubs in the country, I'd imagine its possible that most judges do support one of the above

What this has to do with the Suarez race case though I don't know. There were no judges involved on the panel, or courts involved as you suggest

I think he was joking .... Although I thought he was serious untill the last couple lines

02-01-2012 03:10AM

tommyhaas wrote: »

Given that Utd, Chelsea, Spurs, City, Arsenal and Everton are probably 6 of the 7 or 8 top supported clubs in the country, I'd imagine its possible that most judges do support one of the above

What this has to do with the Suarez race case though I don't know. There were no judges involved on the panel, or courts involved as you suggest

:rolleyes:

My post was 100% serious. Literallly, it was so steep in research and understanding of the case that you're simply wrong. Unlucky though. To close me argument. I'd like to show a t-shirt which will prove, we all know he's not a racist.

tommyhaas · 02-01-2012 03:16AM

everdead.ie wrote: »

I think he was joking .... Although I thought he was serious untill the last couple lines

Yea I assumed that alright

peterswellman wrote: »

:rolleyes:

My post was 100% serious. Literallly, it was so steep in research and understanding of the case that you're simply wrong. Unlucky though. To close me argument. I'd like to show a t-shirt which will prove, we all know he's not a racist.

It was just that inaccurate that it would be easy to assume it was a poor pisstake. Referencing things that have never had a bearing on the case for example, its nearly as if while speaking sarcastically, you betrayed your ignorance of the basic facts

K-9 · 02-01-2012 03:16AM

Daniel Taylor was banned by Fergie wasn't he? I hope those agreeing with that decision aren't suddenly agreeing with Taylor when it suits?

02-01-2012 03:19AM

tommyhaas wrote: »

Yea I assumed that alright

It was just that inaccurate that it would be easy to assume it was a poor pisstake. Referencing things that have never had a bearing on the case for example, its nearly as if while speaking sarcastically, you betrayed your ignorance of the basic facts

It would be easy to assume because it was. Laugh, smile, not everything is so serious.

As for the bolded word, the below image sticks in my mind.

Will I Amnt · 02-01-2012 03:21AM

K-9 wrote: »

Daniel Taylor was banned by Fergie wasn't he? I hope those agreeing with that decision aren't suddenly agreeing with Taylor when it suits?

I think you need some sleep.
You're randomly talking to nobody at this stage

kryogen · 02-01-2012 03:23AM

K-9 wrote: »

The FA wont rescind the ban, maybe reduce it at best. PR wise it's a disaster for Liverpool, no matter what they do. Accept it, you'll get the usuals, appeal it, you'll get the usuals. Its a no win situation.

It's a Thick of it situation!

But it is a no win situation that they put themselves in

The best course of action given all the information available now is to just move on, accept it and move on. No sense in prolonging this and making it a bigger fiasco then it is

It has been a pr disaster for the club, through their own fault and regardless of some very strange fans views on the subject, the player was in the wrong and should just do the time for the crime.

Making it a bigger problem then it is will do no good

K-9 · 02-01-2012 03:24AM

cambo2008 wrote: »

I think you need some sleep.
You're randomly talking to nobody at this stage

Its amazing how suddenly Taylor has become a reputable source. Remarkable change of events.

Will I Amnt · 02-01-2012 03:29AM

K-9 wrote: »

cambo2008 wrote: »

I think you need some sleep.
You're randomly talking to nobody at this stage

Its amazing how suddenly Taylor has become a reputable source. Remarkable change of events.

It's happened on both sides,sure there was an arguement here where someone was using evidence from a previous FA case to question the validity of the evidence in this one.

It's a mindf**k of a thread at times.

SoulTrader · 02-01-2012 03:30AM

K-9 wrote: »

Daniel Taylor was banned by Fergie wasn't he? I hope those agreeing with that decision aren't suddenly agreeing with Taylor when it suits?

He was banned by Ferguson because Ferguson took issue over a book he wrote about United. I'm not sure how Utd fans can agree / disagree with that decision, or what relevance it has to racism in football

Your post just seems like continuing the LFC theme of undermining / discrediting anyone who has anything negative to say about LFC / Suarez. Was it anything more than that?

K-9 · 02-01-2012 03:31AM

kryogen wrote: »

But it is a no win situation that they put themselves in

The best course of action given all the information available now is to just move on, accept it and move on. No sense in prolonging this and making it a bigger fiasco then it is

It has been a pr disaster for the club, through their own fault and regardless of some very strange fans views on the subject, the player was in the wrong and should just do the time for the crime.

Making it a bigger problem then it is will do no good

If they got the whole decision rescinded its a PR disaster. Anything they do is a PR disaster. Right or wrong is irrelevant now.

When you've News International, the Mirror and the Mail against you, forget about PR, it's irrelevant. Nobody cares about the defence, minor details.

kryogen · 02-01-2012 03:34AM

K-9 wrote: »

If they got the whole decision rescinded its a PR disaster. Anything they do is a PR disaster. Right or wrong is irrelevant now.

When you've News International, the Mirror and the Mail against you, forget about PR, it's irrelevant. Nobody cares about the defence, minor details.

No if they got the decision rescinded that would actually be a pr victory, they wont though and I suspect they know this and will just try to do some damage limitation from here on in, the statement released after the findings were published leads me to believe this anyway

They have people against them because of how they have handled themselves, it really is nobody elses fault as much as Liverpool fans would love to have someone to blame (it seems)

K-9 · 02-01-2012 03:35AM

SoulTrader wrote: »

He was banned by Ferguson because Ferguson took issue over a book he wrote about United. I'm not sure how Utd fans can agree / disagree with that decision, or what relevance it has to racism in football

Your post just seems like continuing the LFC theme of undermining / discrediting anyone who has anything negative to say about LFC / Suarez. Was it anything more than that?

I accept that, perfectly reasonable. It's when some United fans dismiss him on United things suiting them, but then quote him, when it suits..............

K-9 · 02-01-2012 03:37AM

kryogen wrote: »

No if they got the decision rescinded that would actually be a pr victory, they wont though and I suspect they know this and will just try to do some damage limitation from here on in, the statement released after the findings were published leads me to believe this anyway

They have people against them because of how they have handled themselves, it really is nobody elses fault as much as Liverpool fans would love to have someone to blame (it seems)

They can't get the decision rescinded though, just the length of the ban?

#15 · 02-01-2012 03:37AM

Looks like Suarez might have had the chance to apologise and end this whole thing early on.

In the 48 hours after Evra’s complaint, any efforts to resolve the situation privately — PFA chairman Gordon Taylor has admitted he wanted to bring all sides together on the weekend the incident took place — was rejected by Liverpool, who by then were seeking a charge against Evra for a false allegation.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/8987529/Liverpool-under-mounting-pressure-to-abandon-plans-to-appeal-against-Luis-Suarezs-eight-match-ban.html

kryogen · 02-01-2012 03:38AM

K-9 wrote: »

They can't get the decision rescinded though, just the length of the ban?

They can appeal the decision, they wont though imo

Dont you think it would be best to just try to move on from this as quick as possible?

Genuinely

kryogen · 02-01-2012 03:40AM

#15 wrote: »

Looks like Suarez might have had the chance to apologise and end this whole thing early on.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/8987529/Liverpool-under-mounting-pressure-to-abandon-plans-to-appeal-against-Luis-Suarezs-eight-match-ban.html

And this is another example of how Liverpool have carried themselves so badly in this whole episode, there would have been no need for this if all sides had met and sorted it out privately

Cannot feel sympathy for the backlash they are receiving but it is sad to me that such a great club with rich traditions and history has let itself down so badly

K-9 · 02-01-2012 03:40AM

Just on the Taylor thing, I've seen him dismissed out of hand on United threads but quoted as a reliable source on this thread.

Racism - Mod Note on 1st Post - Read before posting.

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