Racism - Mod Note on 1st Post - Read before posting.

niallo27 · 01-01-2012 11:07PM

cloptrop wrote: »

Yep and the longer they drag this out the worse it looks for the club on a world level.
all one person has to do is weigh up the actual amount of black players in the team ................1
big football teams these days rely on selling shirts in asia and africa and america
i posted yesterday how espn reported the situation , how the fans are backing him and how the club is backing him make it worse
i cant see black players wanting to go play there if the club logic is <its ok to call you negro , sure your black arnt ye> <we mean it in a friendly way>
in all honestly apologise and get on with it , look how chelsea dealt with the terry situation , no backing no publicity just make sure he was interviewed with a black player whenever he was interviewed,
ok terry will get dragged back up when the court case happens but its forgotten about for now
liverpool just showed the world that they will stand up for their racist players<it doesnt matter if hes guilty or not he was found guilty>
the fans should be urging the club to get sense , id love to get a black liverpool supporters view on this <a real one not jimmy from kerry pretending to be jemal from nigeria>
its a P R disaster and old school kenny dalgleish doesnt seem to be realising that you cant call your black left back chalky anymore
the pure stupidity of liverpools handling of this should be the problem not whether durk kuyt heard what or evra accused a chelsea groundsman of racism<as far as i remember it was a row over them not being allowed warm down >, <ive heard evra was at a charity event for chelsea and zinedine zidane was there , they had a row and evra accused him of calling him black too , only for evras friend calmed him down and said this wasnt true would zidane have been charged> what right minded liverpool supporter is making these crazy lies up about a man who stood up for himself ,,,,,,jaysus negrito was never mentioned
all he did was stage a strike in the french team during the world cup , thats the only stain on his charachter really and he was honest in what he did there <whether he was right or wrong >
enjoy the transfer window

Ah good old Jimmy from Kerry up to his old tricks, he told me he had 15 million quid to lodge into my account last week.

Nalz · 01-01-2012 11:07PM

#15 wrote: »

Well, this has gone a bit wrong for the OP!

the sooner the better the Terry story comes to the fore the better! #DongWongJi

smokedeels · 01-01-2012 11:27PM

I've tried reading through this thread and succeeded only in giving my self a headache.

Am I right in understanding that the report has established that Suarez referenced Evra's skin colour to antagonise him.

If so, is there anything left to debate?

argosy2006 · 01-01-2012 11:32PM

Media are all out to get Suarez, So they never actually read documents,
I think Suarez's account was lost in translation, Needing to be translate it lost some meaning with the panel listening to it,And looked and read in transcript than Evra was been believed before Suarez's version of events was even listened to
Now media making Liverpool look bad for supporting what actually could be an innocent player, Point is no one knows for sure, It was never proven,Yet he's found guilty, Its simply not correct,
Now what do FA do to the thousands of fans making Racist remarks towards Suarez week in week out/??? He got abuse before,,Now its will be ten times worse,,Ref's will only give him freekick if player fouling him beheads him and puts his head on a stick, Other that that he will get nothing,

SantryRed · 01-01-2012 11:44PM

argosy2006 wrote: »

Media are all out to get Suarez, So they never actually read documents,
I think Suarez's account was lost in translation, Needing to be translate it lost some meaning with the panel listening to it,And looked and read in transcript than Evra was been believed before Suarez's version of events was even listened to
Now media making Liverpool look bad for supporting what actually could be an innocent player, Point is no one knows for sure, It was never proven,Yet he's found guilty, Its simply not correct,
Now what do FA do to the thousands of fans making Racist remarks towards Suarez week in week out/??? He got abuse before,,Now its will be ten times worse,,Ref's will only give him freekick if player fouling him beheads him and puts his head on a stick, Other that that he will get nothing,

What absolute bollocks

K-9 · 01-01-2012 11:49PM

SantryRed wrote: »

What absolute bollocks

Why do you think that?

Btw, you described yourself as a neutral fan previously. What team do you support?

Brain Stroking · 02-01-2012 12:02AM

manual_man wrote: »

It still looks like the shinguard to me. All the while noting that Evra's leg is on its way downward (ie considerably lower than his leg had been a split second earlier). We'll agree to differ on this one

:pac:

Leiva · 02-01-2012 12:08AM

Brain Stroking wrote: »

:pac:

Your contributions to this debate are far from brain stroking more stroke !

Brain Stroking · 02-01-2012 12:09AM

Good laugh reading through all this. Maybe we arent as evolved in 2012 as we'd like to think we are. Gonna sit back now and laugh at this from afar :pac:
Special mention to Manual Man - will look forward to seeing what you have to say on other topics :pac:

SantryRed · 02-01-2012 12:13AM

K-9 wrote: »

Why do you think that?

Btw, you described yourself as a neutral fan previously. What team do you support?

I am a neutral fan. I support Shels in the LOI and follow Watford. Have absolutely no affiliation to either team.

I just don't get how Liverpool fans can defend either Suarez or the decision process. The FA have always made decisions on the balance of probabilities. Suarez and the Liverpool staff too ( Kuyt and Comolli) have been horrendously inconsistent in what they were saying. I myself am not sure if the 5 times thing is actually true. However, what I'm 100% about is the bit where Suarez said "Why, because you are Black?" and I believe Liverpool have been trying to cover this bit up since he admitted using the word. I find it a ridiculous coincidence that Kuyt and Comolli both misinterpreted him in two different languages and that Suarez then heard Comolli say in English to Dalglish and didn't pull him up over it then either. I also believe Comolli was pulling a fast one when being cross-examined he said he didn't remember spelling Tues for Phil Dowd. The inconsistency of when Suarez claimed to use the negro word is ridiculous. According to the report, he has changed it several times to agree with video evidence. Imo, Suarez probably did abuse Evra more than the one time he admits to. And in accordance with FA rules, he was charged accordingly and for making a racial remark I think he has gotten off pretty lightly with only an 8 match ban.

ShiverinEskimo · 02-01-2012 12:23AM

argosy2006 wrote: »

Media are all out to get Suarez, So they never actually read documents,
I think Suarez's account was lost in translation, Needing to be translate it lost some meaning with the panel listening to it,And looked and read in transcript than Evra was been believed before Suarez's version of events was even listened to
Now media making Liverpool look bad for supporting what actually could be an innocent player, Point is no one knows for sure, It was never proven,Yet he's found guilty, Its simply not correct,
Now what do FA do to the thousands of fans making Racist remarks towards Suarez week in week out/??? He got abuse before,,Now its will be ten times worse,,Ref's will only give him freekick if player fouling him beheads him and puts his head on a stick, Other that that he will get nothing,

This entire post is simply ridiculous. Here is a media piece that will spell it out for you, using direct quotes from the report that unlike you, they have actually read and pretty much shows how utterly ignorant your opinions of some kind of witch-hunt are.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/dec/31/luis-suarez-patrice-evra-racism-verdict1

Have a read. They clearly state how and why it was not 'Lost in translation' and why 'Evra was believed before Suarez gave his version of events' is total bollocks given that it's only been Suarez who gave inconsistent and unreliable evidence and the fact that the whole point of the entire report is to back up their claims that of the two witnesses it was Evra whose story added up and Suarez whose story did not.

It's really not that difficult. It's people like you who are doing the most disservice to Liverpool FC by basically closing your eyes, clapping your ears and shouting "la la la la la" now that such detailed and damning evidence has been released.

bucketybuck · 02-01-2012 12:27AM

argosy2006 wrote: »

He got abuse before,,Now its will be ten times worse

He is a proven and demonstrable racist, I have no sympathy for him.

everdead.ie · 02-01-2012 12:28AM

The media ut to get Suarez isn't really believable at all to me they have been pretty even handed and still say allegedly despite being found guilty.

I think he's going to have to take this on the chin because the document is so thorough and the FA and the committee really seem to of taken there time to go through this and do it right.

I also think the FA come out of this very well, especially considering how some people said they where laughable etc.

Will I Amnt · 02-01-2012 12:30AM

argosy2006 wrote: »

I think Suarez's account was lost in translation, Needing to be translate it lost some meaning with the panel listening to it,And looked and read in transcript than Evra was been believed before Suarez's version of events was even listened to

How could it be lost in translation,they had weeks to examine his quotes in Spanish and English.
The part in bold is just gibberish.

K-9 · 02-01-2012 12:44AM

SantryRed wrote: »

I am a neutral fan. I support Shels in the LOI and follow Watford. Have absolutely no affiliation to either team.

I just don't get how Liverpool fans can defend either Suarez or the decision process. The FA have always made decisions on the balance of probabilities. Suarez and the Liverpool staff too ( Kuyt and Comolli) have been horrendously inconsistent in what they were saying. I myself am not sure if the 5 times thing is actually true. However, what I'm 100% about is the bit where Suarez said "Why, because you are Black?" and I believe Liverpool have been trying to cover this bit up since he admitted using the word. I find it a ridiculous coincidence that Kuyt and Comolli both misinterpreted him in two different languages and that Suarez then heard Comolli say in English to Dalglish and didn't pull him up over it then either. I also believe Comolli was pulling a fast one when being cross-examined he said he didn't remember spelling Tues for Phil Dowd. The inconsistency of when Suarez claimed to use the negro word is ridiculous. According to the report, he has changed it several times to agree with video evidence. Imo, Suarez probably did abuse Evra more than the one time he admits to. And in accordance with FA rules, he was charged accordingly and for making a racial remark I think he has gotten off pretty lightly with only an 8 match ban.

You just seems to post a lot in United threads, maybe its a Shels think like Des and you protest a little too much!

Maybe some Shels fans just take a specific interest in United!

The report doesn't look great from a Pool perspective but I don't get why Kuyt is getting such criticism. His evidence was hardly great for Suarez and all he did say, when asked could he have misinterpreted the conversation with Suarez in Dutch, he said yes. Perfectly reasonable answer.

It seems a good honest pro's reputation is being tarnished because he said he heard Evra saying "the ref is booking me because I'm black". United hardcore fans going mad at that and then taking his word on the Suarez conversation. That's hardcore football fans for you, double standards are irrelevant.

Shame a good honest pro just giving his version of events is getting abuse.

bucketybuck · 02-01-2012 12:49AM

K-9 wrote: »

Shame a good honest pro just giving his version of events is getting abuse.

Shame a good honest pro playing a football match got racist abuse.

K-9 · 02-01-2012 12:56AM

bucketybuck wrote: »

Shame a good honest pro playing a football match got racist abuse.

Not a reason to doubt Kuyt's integrity though, you think it is as you replied to my post and that's the main point of it?

02-01-2012 01:00AM

K-9 wrote: »

You just seems to post a lot in United threads, maybe its a Shels think like Des and you protest a little too much! Maybe some Shels fans just take a specific interest in United!

The report doesn't look great from a Pool perspective but I don't get why Kuyt is getting such criticism. His evidence was hardly great for Suarez and all he did say, when asked could he have misinterpreted the conversation with Suarez in Dutch, he said yes. Perfectly reasonable answer.

It seems a good honest pro's reputation is being tarnished because he said he heard Evra saying "the ref is booking me because I'm black". United hardcore fans going mad at that and then taking his word on the Suarez conversation. That's hardcore football fans for you, double standards are irrelevant.

Shame a good honest pro just giving his version of events is getting abuse.

I pretty much only post in United threads and trust me, SantryRed doesn't have any pro-United bias.

You have no right to talk about double standards of people's testimony after the shambles of a statement from Liverpool showed exactly that. You are trying to make this a United vs Liverpool thing in your comment there when really it's just everyone against a small group of Liverpool "hardcore fans". No other club's fans seem to have any doubt that Suarez is guilty of what he has been charged with after he himself admitted saying it once.

K-9 · 02-01-2012 01:03AM

Liam O wrote: »

I pretty much only post in United threads and trust me, SantryRed doesn't have any pro-United bias.

You have no right to talk about double standards of people's testimony after the shambles of a statement from Liverpool showed exactly that. You are trying to make this a United vs Liverpool thing in your comment there when really it's just everyone against a small group of Liverpool "hardcore fans". No other club's fans seem to have any doubt that Suarez is guilty of what he has been charged with after he himself admitted saying it once.

I rest my case on the hard core United fan thing, prevalent throughout the thread.

Seems some aren't that bothered about the truth at all, sure what does the truth matter when you can get a dig in at Kuyt, a Pool player as well?

Rely on his evidence and then disparage him speaking out of the other side of the mouth. Expected no better.

greendom · 02-01-2012 01:06AM

So what's the future for Liverpool and Suarez ?

What's the likelihood of an appeal ? I really can't see it myself. What would be the net gain? Prolonging this misery and for what

And does Suarez have a future in English football ? Will he be able to cope with the taunts from the crowd and other players ?

SantryRed · 02-01-2012 01:06AM

K-9 wrote: »

You just seems to post a lot in United threads, maybe its a Shels think like Des and you protest a little too much! Maybe some Shels fans just take a specific interest in United!

The report doesn't look great from a Pool perspective but I don't get why Kuyt is getting such criticism. His evidence was hardly great for Suarez and all he did say, when asked could he have misinterpreted the conversation with Suarez in Dutch, he said yes. Perfectly reasonable answer.

It seems a good honest pro's reputation is being tarnished because he said he heard Evra saying "the ref is booking me because I'm black". United hardcore fans going mad at that and then taking his word on the Suarez conversation. That's hardcore football fans for you, double standards are irrelevant.

Shame a good honest pro just giving his version of events is getting abuse.

How has Kuyt been tarnished? It's just the inconsistencies that stick out. Also, he said he was almost certain he heard Evra say he was being book because he was black, something Marriner has refuted which makes other things he say look inconsistent or less believable per say(can't find the exact word I mean).

02-01-2012 01:08AM

K-9 wrote: »

I rest my case on the hard core United fan thing, prevalent throughout the thread.

Seems some aren't that bothered about the truth at all, sure what does the truth matter when you can get a dig in at Kuyt, a Pool player as well?

Rely on his evidence and then disparage him speaking out of the other side of the mouth. Expected no better.

what are you on about? I didn't mention Kuyt there and the only time I can see him mentioned in the thread is in relation to his testimony which clashed with his own players. You on the sauce or something? It's highly probable that the commission's findings are true and highly improbable that Suarez's defense is true. What do you want us to do?

Blatter · 02-01-2012 01:15AM

K-9 wrote: »

I rest my case on the hard core United fan thing, prevalent throughout the thread.

Seems some aren't that bothered about the truth at all, sure what does the truth matter when you can get a dig in at Kuyt, a Pool player as well?

Rely on his evidence and then disparage him speaking out of the other side of the mouth. Expected no better.

There was found to be absolutely NO correlating evidence to support Kuyt's claim that Evra said ''you're only booking me because I'm black'' towards the referee. So, it is easy to dismiss this.

Kuyt's initial interpretation of what Suarez told him, was backed up and in line with the initial interpretation of what Suarez told Comolli, and also in line with Evra's evidence.

It is not a case of just selectively believing Kuyt. There are perfectly good, valid reasons why Kuyt's statement about what Suarez said to him carried more weight than his statement about Evra making allegations against the referee.

Basically, one statement form Kuyt was in line and backed up with the evidence of others, the other statement wasn't.

K-9 · 02-01-2012 01:18AM

SantryRed wrote: »

How has Kuyt been tarnished? It's just the inconsistencies that stick out. Also, he said he was almost certain he heard Evra say he was being book because he was black, something Marriner has refuted which makes other things he say look inconsistent or less believable per say(can't find the exact word I mean).

Right, he said he heard nothing in the goalmouth incident, same as DeGea, perfectly reasonable and nobody can doubt that.

Its perfectly reasonable he may have misheard Evra with the ref thing. The ref never heard at any time Evra mentioning he was called black, apparently he said it twice, 2 different times. The first he heard of it was after the game.

During a match with 40 odd thousand people watching and making a hell of a lot of noise, not like your usual United or Pool home match, its very plausible players hear nothing or pick up things wrongly. That would be an inconvenient thing to think though for those with an agenda.

Kuyt kept his testimony consistent about the Suarez conversation in Dutch , though not that great for Suarez. The panel just asked him a simple question, could he have misinterpreted the conversation? He answered yes and a huge deal is being made of it.

I see no reason to doubt Kuyt? Maybe you can reason why so many have painted him in a bad way? Nobody else has other than engage in the usual my team is better than yours crap.

K-9 · 02-01-2012 01:21AM

Liam O wrote: »

what are you on about? I didn't mention Kuyt there and the only time I can see him mentioned in the thread is in relation to his testimony which clashed with his own players. You on the sauce or something? It's highly probable that the commission's findings are true and highly improbable that Suarez's defense is true. What do you want us to do?

I fail to see why you responded to my substantive post about Kuyt, other than engage in a general, dismissive rant, addressing none of my points

Another one for the ignore list. I hated using it on principle but Jaysus its a great thing. The Muppett, Fuhrer and Liam O.

K-9 · 02-01-2012 01:23AM

Blatter wrote: »

There was found to be absolutely NO correlating evidence to support Kuyt's claim that Evra said ''you're only booking me because I'm black'' towards the referee. So, it is easy to dismiss this.

Kuyt's initial interpretation of what Suarez told him, was backed up and in line with the initial interpretation of what Suarez told Comolli, and also in line with Evra's evidence.

It is not a case of just selectively believing Kuyt. There are perfectly good, valid reasons why Kuyt's statement about what Suarez said to him carried more weight than his statement about Evra making allegations against the referee.

Basically, one statement form Kuyt was in line and backed up with the evidence of others, the other statement wasn't.

Fair enough, why is he being painted as a villain by a good few then?

02-01-2012 01:24AM

K-9 wrote: »

I fail to see why you responded to my substantive post about Kuyt, other than engage in a general, dismissive rant, addressing none of my points

Another one for the ignore list. I hated using it on principle but Jaysus its a great thing. The Muppett, Fuhrer and Liam O.

That's great, good luck, enjoy the persecution complex.

Fuhrer · 02-01-2012 01:29AM

Liam O wrote: »

That's great, good luck, enjoy the persecution complex.

If he puts everyone on the ignore list who takes apart his points with laughable ease, hes going to be seeing a pretty lonely forum.

SantryRed · 02-01-2012 01:33AM

K-9 wrote: »

Right, he said he heard nothing in the goalmouth incident, same as DeGea, perfectly reasonable and nobody can doubt that.

Its perfectly reasonable he may have misheard Evra with the ref thing. The ref never heard at any time Evra mentioning he was called black, apparently he said it twice, 2 different times. The first he heard of it was after the game.

During a match with 40 odd thousand people watching and making a hell of a lot of noise, not like your usual United or Pool home match, its very plausible players hear nothing or pick up things wrongly. That would be an inconvenient thing to think though for those with an agenda.

Kuyt kept his testimony consistent about the Suarez conversation in Dutch , though not that great for Suarez. The panel just asked him a simple question, could he have misinterpreted the conversation? He answered yes and a huge deal is being made of it.

I see no reason to doubt Kuyt? Maybe you can reason why so many have painted him in a bad way? Nobody else has other than engage in the usual my team is better than yours crap.

I'll 100% agree with you on Kuyt. I see no reason to doubt him either. I'm just using his statement along with Comolli to prove that Suarez did indeed imo say "because you are black" and not "Why, black?". All I'm responding to in regards Kuyt is that the fact he says he could have misinterpreted what Suarez said could have been found unreliable due to his previous statement being found untrue with Evra and Marriner. I like Kuyt as a player and think he is a model professional.

Blatter · 02-01-2012 01:35AM

K-9 wrote: »

Fair enough, why is he being painted as a villain by a good few then?

I don't know, I didn't see too many having a go at Kuyt. I suppose some are under the impression that he tried to backtrack and cover for Suarez, that was more Comolli.

I suppose others think he made up the allegation about Evra accusing the referee, although it is possible he was just badly mistaken.

Racism - Mod Note on 1st Post - Read before posting.

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