Racism - Mod Note on 1st Post - Read before posting.

Will I Amnt · 01-01-2012 01:37PM

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Le King wrote: »

I think you need to read the report badly before you embarrass yourself any further.

Says the person that keeps mentioning the word 'negro' without realising Suarez was talking Spanish.

People are seeing that word and immediately applying our English understanding of it.

Oh, and I've read the report well, thanks. Not badly like many of you have.

He referenced his skin colour while abusing him,what are you not getting here???

homerjay2005 · 01-01-2012 01:37PM

ilovelamp2000 wrote: »

I'll keep it short and sweet.

I'm willing to bet most people who are disgusted with the judgement haven't even read it.

Everyone who is still banging on about the lack of evidence is either deluded or ignorant. There are numerous witness statements, TV footage, and an admission by Suarez. That is all evidence.

There is nothing particularly unusual about the judgement given, the vast majority of it is legally sound. There are a couple of things I would take issue with, but they'd be more towards the extent of his punishment than the offence itself. There is no doubt in my mind that he's guilty of the offence.

As a club we need to take a long look at ourselves, we've acted appallingly throughout. I said it at the time but it was obvious the club statement at the time of the decision was being completely facetious and was merely intended to rile up the masses, it's still having an effect. Knowing what we know now just makes it look even worse. We've drip fed the media bull**** all the way along to cover it all up, and every supporter is clinging to that bull**** as if it's gospel.

Those fans who went along with it, and those who've been trying to justify Suarez's behaviour also need to take look at themselves. You look really really stupid, next time sit back and have an objective look at things, think it through then come to your conclusion. Don't say "well the club says this, so it must be true" and then go off on some hare brained conspiracy buzz.

at last a decent post from a liverpool fan. well done.

sadly, doesnt look like many other fans of the club agree with you which is sad.

lordgoat · 01-01-2012 01:37PM

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Says the person that keeps mentioning the word 'negro' without realising Suarez was talking Spanish.

People are seeing that word and immediately applying our English understanding of it.

So what if he was speaking spanish, he was using the word in relation to his skin colour. Seriously is it that difficult for you to comprehend the context?

So when Saint Suarez went 'negro, negro, negro' how in any sense of the word was he not referring to Evra's colour?

Honestly dude, you're an embarrassment to any of the more reasoned argument from liverpool fans, who i have some sympathy for.

Dublin_Gunner · 01-01-2012 01:43PM

lordgoat wrote: »

So what if he was speaking spanish, he was using the word in relation to his skin colour. Seriously is it that difficult for you to comprehend the context?

So when Saint Suarez went 'negro, negro, negro' how in any sense of the word was he not referring to Evra's colour?

Honestly dude, you're an embarrassment to any of the more reasoned argument from liverpool fans, who i have some sympathy for.

Once again your merely quoting what Evea said in his statement. Suarez said he never said 'negro negro negro' and the report explains that tv evidence doesn't show him saying it either.

Suarez called him a black man, I fail to see the issue. He is a black man, or hasn't he noticed.

It's merely a case of the race card being played.

Le King · 01-01-2012 01:44PM

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Says the person that keeps mentioning the word 'negro' without realising Suarez was talking Spanish.

People are seeing that word and immediately applying our English understanding of it.

What does negro mean in Spanish? Black. Why would Suarez feel the need to call Evra by his skin colour on the pitch?

The word can also be used in Spanish to describe something as terrible, awful etc. negra

You can also use the word negro to describe somebody as a slave.

Get your facts right there before lecturing me on Spanish.

Chupa dura, amigo - That's not offensive because I'm talking about hard lollipops and I've used friend at the end of the remark. :rolleyes:

You can fix it whatever way you like, but your still wrong.

Will I Amnt · 01-01-2012 01:45PM

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

lordgoat wrote: »

So what if he was speaking spanish, he was using the word in relation to his skin colour. Seriously is it that difficult for you to comprehend the context?

So when Saint Suarez went 'negro, negro, negro' how in any sense of the word was he not referring to Evra's colour?

Honestly dude, you're an embarrassment to any of the more reasoned argument from liverpool fans, who i have some sympathy for.

Once again your merely quoting what Evea said in his statement. Suarez said he never said 'negro negro negro' and the report explains that tv evidence doesn't show him saying it either.

Suarez called him a black man, I fail to see the issue. He is a black man, or hasn't he noticed.

It's merely a case of the race card being played.

Does the report confirm he just called him a black man???

PHB · 01-01-2012 01:48PM

The phrase "liverpool fans" appears over 360 times in this thread. I think it's really impressively absurd that it continues to be used. There is clearly a diversity of opinion within liverpool fans, to suggest otherwise is just absurd. Please stop using this phrase.

K-9 · 01-01-2012 01:50PM

Trilla wrote: »

All these so called experts, journalists and pundits on sky sports are stating that Liverpool should just accept this punishment and that Suarez got off lightly.

Apparently Suarez contradicted himself on two major points when giving evidence and was found inconsistent and unreliable.

Also, and I haven't read in to this at all, but one expert is claiming within the report the FA investigated in to the cultural differences by contacting other experts in the know (in reference to the word Suarez has admitted to have used). Their findings were supposed to be conclusive that this word is never used as Suarez claims it to be. I did however see pics of an Argentina team with a flag using a similar word to "negro" so I'm confused on that one. Maybe the key thing here is it was a similar word and not the word Suarez admitted to have said.

The experts basically backed up both Evra's and Suarez's evidence as pretty consistent with what they were saying. It can be used in a friendly way, even to strangers and in an informal setting like a football match. All that seems to have been ignored.

Will I Amnt · 01-01-2012 01:52PM

PHB wrote: »

The phrase "liverpool fans" appears over 360 times in this thread. I think it's really impressively absurd that it continues to be used. There is clearly a diversity of opinion within liverpool fans, to suggest otherwise is just absurd. Please stop using this phrase.

Practice what you preach PHB

Leiva · 01-01-2012 01:54PM

Sooner the better it's brought to the COA I say .

Even IF Suarez was guilty and going by their own document I have no clue how the 8 match ban got totted up ???

Will I Amnt · 01-01-2012 01:55PM

K-9 wrote: »

Trilla wrote: »

All these so called experts, journalists and pundits on sky sports are stating that Liverpool should just accept this punishment and that Suarez got off lightly.

Apparently Suarez contradicted himself on two major points when giving evidence and was found inconsistent and unreliable.

Also, and I haven't read in to this at all, but one expert is claiming within the report the FA investigated in to the cultural differences by contacting other experts in the know (in reference to the word Suarez has admitted to have used). Their findings were supposed to be conclusive that this word is never used as Suarez claims it to be. I did however see pics of an Argentina team with a flag using a similar word to "negro" so I'm confused on that one. Maybe the key thing here is it was a similar word and not the word Suarez admitted to have said.

The experts basically backed up both Evra's and Suarez's evidence as pretty consistent with what they were saying. It can be used in a friendly way, even to strangers and in an informal setting like a football match. All that seems to have been ignored.

This wasn't in South America and Evra is not South American.
He should have known better than to use the word Negro,end of story.

tommyhaas · 01-01-2012 01:58PM

If John Terry is found not guilty in court, a court that only convicts when a charge is proven beyond all reasonable doubt, can the FA still charge and find him guilty on the balance of probabilities?

Leiva · 01-01-2012 01:59PM

cambo2008 wrote: »

This wasn't in South America and Evra is not South American.
He should have known better than to use the word Negro,end of story.

Neither was Evra when he decided to start this whole Shiite fest by speaking in Spanish at Anfield ?

ilovelamp2000 · 01-01-2012 02:00PM

mixednuts wrote: »

Sooner the better it's brought to the COA I say .

Even IF Suarez was guilty and going by their own document I have no clue how the 8 match ban got totted up ???

It won't be brought to the COA.

We'll get the ban reduced on appeal, probably to four games. Mainly because the FA won't want to have to hit EBJT with an 8 game ban in the lead up to Euro 2012.

Le King · 01-01-2012 02:02PM

tommyhaas wrote: »

If John Terry is found not guilty in court, a court that only convicts when a charge is proven beyond all reasonable doubt, can the FA still charge and find him guilty on the balance of probabilities?

Yes, but nothing will happen to England Captain John Terry.

Suarez is the poster boy now.

homerjay2005 · 01-01-2012 02:02PM

mixednuts wrote: »

Neither was Evra when he decided to start this whole Shiite fest by speaking in Spanish at Anfield ?

lol.....ive seen it all now.

jaysus you lot are unreal for blaming it on everything other than your own.

Chong · 01-01-2012 02:04PM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

lol.....ive seen it all now.

jaysus you lot are unreal for blaming it on everything other than your own.

This "you lot" you speak of Ed as in Liverpool fans :pac:

K-9 · 01-01-2012 02:06PM

cambo2008 wrote: »

This wasn't in South America and Evra is not South American.
He should have known better than to use the word Negro,end of story.

Indeed, pretty obviously. They were speaking in Spanish using Spanish phrases, Evra included! Suarez has said he has used the phrase before on a football pitch plenty of times, including in England.

It seems the main thrust is because Evra got very annoyed and threw a hissy fit the FA assume Suarez must have said it numerous times. That's what the main basis for decision is.

The same Evra that had a hissy fit over the coin toss! The ref must have rigged the toss going on that logic as poor Patrice was annoyed!

Leiva · 01-01-2012 02:07PM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

lol.....ive seen it all now.

jaysus you lot are unreal for blaming it on everything other than your own.

"you lot " ??? ... Speak to me directly next time .

I was replying to a comment about why a different language was been used , and pointing out that the two of them were at it and all evidence points to Evra using a foreign language first .

Problem ?

tommyhaas · 01-01-2012 02:09PM

Le King wrote: »

Yes, but nothing will happen to England Captain John Terry.

Suarez is the poster boy now.

I think the FA may well ban him providing they can even if he is found not guilty by the court

I was sceptical initially given that they have previously let of people on the basis it was the England Capt (Ironically, IIRC Dalglish was Shearer's manager when he benefited from this), but I think Terry's only up for mention in February, so it will be a later date for his actual hearing. If that was to occur after the Euro's (I'm not sure how long these things take in the UK),it would make it far easier for the FA to ban him, and potentially strip him of the captaincy as the next major tournament will still be another two years away, and Terry's getting on

ush · 01-01-2012 02:12PM

K-9 wrote: »

The same Evra that had a hissy fit over the coin toss! The ref must have rigged the toss going on that logic as poor Patrice was annoyed!

Arguing and a coin toss. Did it go something like this....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhXJcfczNIc

Will I Amnt · 01-01-2012 02:19PM

K-9 wrote: »

cambo2008 wrote: »

This wasn't in South America and Evra is not South American.
He should have known better than to use the word Negro,end of story.

Indeed, pretty obviously. They were speaking in Spanish using Spanish phrases, Evra included! Suarez has said he has used the phrase before on a football pitch plenty of times, including in England.

It seems the main thrust is because Evra got very annoyed and threw a hissy fit the FA assume Suarez must have said it numerous times. That's what the main basis for decision is.

The same Evra that had a hissy fit over the coin toss! The ref must have rigged the toss going on that logic as poor Patrice was annoyed!

Your posts are getting progressively petty in here,that last paragraph sums it up perfectly.
Evra is the villain in all this yea??? :rolleyes:

Will I Amnt · 01-01-2012 02:21PM

cambo2008 wrote: »

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

lordgoat wrote: »

So what if he was speaking spanish, he was using the word in relation to his skin colour. Seriously is it that difficult for you to comprehend the context?

So when Saint Suarez went 'negro, negro, negro' how in any sense of the word was he not referring to Evra's colour?

Honestly dude, you're an embarrassment to any of the more reasoned argument from liverpool fans, who i have some sympathy for.

Once again your merely quoting what Evea said in his statement. Suarez said he never said 'negro negro negro' and the report explains that tv evidence doesn't show him saying it either.

Suarez called him a black man, I fail to see the issue. He is a black man, or hasn't he noticed.

It's merely a case of the race card being played.

Does the report confirm he just called him a black man???

Still waiting a reply on this.....

parker kent · 01-01-2012 02:25PM

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Suarez called him a black man, I fail to see the issue. He is a black man, or hasn't he noticed.

This is up there with the most idiotic sentences I have read.

How in the world do you fail to see that somebody referring to the colour of somebodies skin in a heated exchange is wrong? He was winding Evra up and then referred to the colour of his skin whilst speaking negatively about him. That is wrong. If you disagree with that, well you are wrong.

PHB wrote: »

The phrase "liverpool fans" appears over 360 times in this thread. I think it's really impressively absurd that it continues to be used. There is clearly a diversity of opinion within liverpool fans, to suggest otherwise is just absurd. Please stop using this phrase.

I sympathise with any Liverpool fan trying to be reasonable about this case. But I'm sure you have noticed the mind numbingly idiotic posts that appear with alarming regularity in this thread. It is easy enough for people to make the mistake of using a generalisation such as "Liverpool fans". There have been plenty in the thread about United fans too.

Like I said earlier, I find it disheartening that a case about racist abuse has come down to such ridiculous willy waving bullshíte here. An independent panel, chaired by an experienced QC examined this case. They used independent experts such as language experts to help with their case. They had relevant evidence including witness statements, TV footage (including footage not seen in public) and an admission by Suarez that he used certain language. We can see on camera that during the argument that Suarez pinched Evra's arm whilst clearly speaking to him in an aggravated manner. That tallies with Evra's evidence.

It is laughable to suggest he used the word "negro" as a term of endearment. When I use a term of endearment, I tend not to be shouting with a clearly aggravated face needing somebody to step in between myself and the other person.

The independent panel obviously had far longer to decide this and they came to a pretty clear conclusion. There is nothing fishy about this. There has not been an injustice. The comments about this topic on here sadden me that there is such widespread ignorance about a whole host of issues. I would say the very same thing if this was Rooney abusing Glen Johnson or Robbie Keane abusing somebody in the European Championships in the summer. Somethings are above the partisan bull that comes with soccer.

jank · 01-01-2012 02:25PM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

when will it end? when liverpool fans actually burst the bubble they are in and realise that for once, the need to accept that one of their players did something wrong.

this will go on and on until they do. the club should apologise for the way they have acted, but i dont think they will.

heres a few more views -

but this point is crucial. how in gods name can liverpool fans say its one word against another when this is the reality -

this whole episode reflects horribly on liverpool fans.

Good post. I think the owners of Liverpool FC will MAKE Danglish and Suarez give a press conference where they will apologise for all wrong doings. How some people are so blind is laughable.

noodler · 01-01-2012 02:30PM

Well I said the t-shirts were a very bad idea at the time. And that statement.

K-9 · 01-01-2012 02:31PM

cambo2008 wrote: »

Your posts are getting progressively petty in here,that last paragraph sums it up perfectly.
Evra is the villain in all this yea??? :rolleyes:

Yeah, the reading skills aren't great in here either!

I used an example to make a point. The main evidence the FA has is that there was indeed an argument, it lasted a minute or so, Evra got very annoyed, nobody heard anything but Evra was still annoyed as he talked to the ref and then the players afterwards. Plus Suarez's evidence wasn't as credible, a couple of inconsistencies, even though Suarez didn't have to prove anything.

I just carried the same logic to a previous disagreement Evra had with the ref, before the start of the very same match, a petty row with the ref over the coin toss. Get this, its even referenced in the same report I take it you've read? You know, evidence and stuff like that.

I'm pointing out the logical sequence the FA have used and applying it to the coin toss to show it isn't that great a reasoning, as there's a good chance the ref rigged the toss going on that logic. You could take it as a dig at the FA but I suppose that wouldn't give a chance to get a petty dig in and an ould :rolleyes: and get offended over "your" player.

Handsome Bob · 01-01-2012 02:36PM

PHB wrote: »

The phrase "liverpool fans" appears over 360 times in this thread. I think it's really impressively absurd that it continues to be used. There is clearly a diversity of opinion within liverpool fans, to suggest otherwise is just absurd. Please stop using this phrase.

Let them at it, for many of them this will be their highlight of 2012.

tommyhaas · 01-01-2012 02:39PM

Anyone think that club statement was released by Liverpool in the knowledge that Suarez was guilty and the verdict was fair?

By backing Suarez, the club are building an us against them mentality, backing Suarez to the hilt and strengthening his loyalty to the club. They could have made an alternative statement, accepting the verdict or at least stating that they were considering it without being critical of Suarez, but from the clubs point of view, what would that have achieved?

He's been found guilty, that won't change. He may get the ban reduced, but this will be down to the merits of the appeal as oppose to the the clubs reaction

In short, perhaps they felt there was more to be gained from coming out as they did, as oppose to how they would have been expected to come out, in the long run

I'm not asking if it was morally the right thing to do, before the high horses ride in, but could this have been the motivation behind the statement and fashion range?

Bodhisopha · 01-01-2012 02:43PM

tommyhaas wrote: »

Anyone think that club statement was released by Liverpool in the knowledge that Suarez was guilty and the verdict was fair?

By backing Suarez, the club are building an us against them mentality, backing Suarez to the hilt and strengthening his loyalty to the club. They could have made an alternative statement, accepting the verdict or at least stating that they were considering it without being critical of Suarez, but from the clubs point of view, what would that have achieved?

He's been found guilty, that won't change. He may get the ban reduced, but this will be down to the merits of the appeal as oppose to the the clubs reaction

In short, perhaps they felt there was more to be gained from coming out as they did, as oppose to how they would have been expected to come out, in the long run

I'm not asking if it was morally the right thing to do, before the high horses ride in, but could this have been the motivation behind the statement and fashion range?

Yeah, i felt the t-shirts should've just read "please don't leave us when we fail to qualify for the Champions League, Luis".

Racism - Mod Note on 1st Post - Read before posting.

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