Should we stop trusting people who wear suits?

Doc Ruby · 31-12-2011 05:26AM

Senna wrote: »

My mechanic always said "the guy covered in dirt just finished work will always pay, the guy in the suit will try and screw you over".

My mechanic always tries to screw me over. And the worst service I ever got was from an electrician wearing denims. I don't think it matters what they wear tbh.

FruitLover · 31-12-2011 05:39AM

Chuck Stone wrote: »

So should we treat people who wear suits with suspicion

Way ahead of you.

Killer Pigeon · 31-12-2011 06:00AM

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Ah ha, so you know what a 'proper' suit is compared with an improper suit?

Lol, suit snob.

Next please.

If it's bought in a shop that's anywhere below the same reputation as Marks & Spencer or Debenhams, then it's not a proper suit. Personally, for a casual suit, I go for Best Menswear.

hooradiation · 31-12-2011 07:07AM

Chuck Stone wrote: »

We hear so much about people who wear track-suits and how undesirable they are and how much they are a drain on society.

What about the suit-wearers?

The politicians. The 'expert' economists. The academics. The banksters.

They all wear suits and they've all sustained massive damage on this country.

So should we treat people who wear suits with suspicion or is that just apparel prejudice?

You tell me.

Only if you're a stroppy adolescent, in which case who gives have a doddering fuck what you think.

later12 · 31-12-2011 09:24AM

The OP has a good point. If we take Ireland from its inception as a Republic, it was first brought to its knees by the suited middle classes who wanted to lead it to independence by force or 'blood sacrifice'; quite at odds with the political outlook of the rural population which predominated, and who were to be the 'blood sacrifice'.

In fledgling independence, Ireland was built up not by the laissez-faire economic policies of its first bourgeois Government, who had the unfortunate habit of arriving to Parliament in Oxford grey Morning suits, but was driven by the rural peasantry. This lasted throughout most of the 20th century.

Until the 1990s, it was the wellington boot wearer and the man wearing factory overalls who sustained & built Ireland despite their successive governments who, with a few heroic exceptions, thought it best not to interfere.

In the present era, it was when the productive economy began to reap benefits for the Irish, and all the hard work of the agricultural and factory classes began to be awarded financially, that its success was (arguably) manipulated by 'the suited economy': bank staff, government politicians and estate agents, and neglected by others within that sartorial class: academics and opposition politicians.

Ireland, in its troubled history, has far more reason to be wary of the man in a suit than the man in workingmen's clothes.

Ellis Dee · 31-12-2011 09:36AM

Some people just don't need a suit to command respect.:):)

http://danfabrizio.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/gandhi2.jpg

Mr. CooL ICE · 31-12-2011 09:46AM

Academics wear suits?

Chuck Stone · 31-12-2011 11:24AM

hooradiation wrote: »

Only if you're a stroppy adolescent, in which case who gives have a doddering fuck what you think.

What are you on about you silly little person?

Sunnyisland · 31-12-2011 11:34AM

One must wear what suits oneself :-)

Mark200 · 31-12-2011 11:38AM

Suits make men far more presentable and professional. It also makes them seem like they actually care. Try going into a job interview wearing a tracksuit and see what happens.

If you're in a professional job and can't be bothered paying attention to your appearance when meeting clients then it says a lot.

Also I think having a business dress code in a workplace helps to encourage a sense of professionalism.

Chuck Stone · 31-12-2011 11:43AM

Mark200 wrote: »

Suits make men far more presentable and professional. It also makes them seem like they actually care. Try going into a job interview wearing a tracksuit and see what happens.

If you're in a professional job and can't be bothered paying attention to your appearance when meeting clients then it says a lot.

Also I think having a business dress code in a workplace helps to encourage a sense of professionalism.

I try to pay attention to how a person conducts themselves rather than what they wear.

suits make men far more ... professional

Lol. ^^

Sunnyisland · 31-12-2011 11:50AM

In my personal opinion you cant beat a good well fitted personally tailored suit with shoes to match, Yer the man :-)

Mark200 · 31-12-2011 12:10PM

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Mark200 wrote: »

Suits make men far more presentable and professional. It also makes them seem like they actually care. Try going into a job interview wearing a tracksuit and see what happens.

If you're in a professional job and can't be bothered paying attention to your appearance when meeting clients then it says a lot.

Also I think having a business dress code in a workplace helps to encourage a sense of professionalism.

I try to pay attention to how a person conducts themselves rather than what they wear.

Deciding what to wear ans how to wear it is part of conducting yourself. Same way if you're sending out CVs you make sure they are well presented and easy to look at. It'd be a bit stupid to say "well the presentation doesn't matter since the content is there".

People generally want to deal with people who at least appear to make an effort. It obviously depends on what your area.of employment is, but if I owned a business and a consultant came in offering their services I think its quite obvious that I would be less willing to give my money to someone who didn't even bother to dress up. Obviously that doesn't change the fact that you should make sure that they know what they're talking about, but if they can't make an effort to dress up before asking me for money, then what kind of effort would you expect them to put into the rest of their work?

later12 · 31-12-2011 01:06PM

Mark200 wrote: »

Deciding what to wear ans how to wear it is part of conducting yourself.

It isn't really; it's part of tolerating the present, and inevitably temporary, perception of what 'a professional' ought to look like.

When our professional forefathers were starting out in their careers, they were, at various times throughout the modern age, expected to wear tight breeches, ascots, mutton chops, silly beards, all manner of hats, garricks, wigs and waistcoats. Some of these, most notably hats, have only recently died out. Professional dress changes, and it will change.

Deciding what to wear has nothing to do with conduct, or 'conducting oneself' as you suggest. Its popularity is little more than concession to a rather absurd fad. We can be confident that it is a mere concession in light of the fact that men rarely wear suits in their own free time.

Mark200 · 31-12-2011 01:13PM

later10 wrote: »

Mark200 wrote: »

Deciding what to wear ans how to wear it is part of conducting yourself.

It isn't really; it's part of tolerating the present, and inevitably temporary, perception of what 'a professional' ought to look like.

When our professional forefathers were starting out in their careers, they were, at various times throughout the modern age, expected to wear tight breeches, ascots, mutton chops, silly beards, all manner of hats, garricks, wigs and waistcoats. Some of these, most notably hats, have only recently died out. Professional dress changes, and it will change.

Deciding what to wear has nothing to do with conduct, or 'conducting oneself' as you suggest. Its popularity is little more than concession to a rather absurd fad. We can be confident that it is a mere concession in light of the fact that men rarely wear suits in their own free time.

Breaking news: dress styles change over time.

I wasn't claiming that they didn't.

later12 · 31-12-2011 02:03PM

Mark200 wrote: »

Breaking news: dress styles change over time.

I think you missed the point. You're claiming that wearing a suit is 'part of conducting yourself'. It isn't. It's just adhering to a pretty nonsensical fad of fashion.

Some of the most brilliant men of our time are woeful dressers. Thankfully they have greater things to occupy their minds than colour co-ordinating their neckties; and possess the independence of spirit not to be a slave to dress codes.

If we keep this within an Irish context, the fact that a man like Garret FitzgGerald is remembered in the same breath for his odd socks and ruffled hair as for his professionalism and the dignity which he held for his office, then I think your argument comes under some strain.

gigino · 31-12-2011 02:30PM

never trust what anyone in a suit says.

Mark200 · 31-12-2011 02:31PM

later10 wrote: »

Mark200 wrote: »

Breaking news: dress styles change over time.

I think you missed the point. You're claiming that wearing a suit is 'part of conducting yourself'. It isn't. It's just adhering to a pretty nonsensical fad of fashion.

Some of the most brilliant men of our time are woeful dressers. Thankfully they have greater things to occupy their minds than colour co-ordinating their neckties; and possess the independence of spirit not to be a slave to dress codes.

If we keep this within an Irish context, the fact that a man like Garret FitzgGerald is remembered in the same breath for his odd socks and ruffled hair as for his professionalism and the dignity which he held for his office, then I think your argument comes under some strain.

Well actually, I was claiming that looking well and presentable is part of conducting yourself. A suit being what is, these days, considered as presentable in business.

I never even implied that brilliant people have to wear suits. My point was that it helps a lot. People make judgements about you before you even open your mouth. If you are looking to persuade someone to hire you or to trust you, then presumably you'd want that initial judgement to be as good as possible.

Obviously this doesn't apply to people who already have a well established reputation.

But I'd love to see you go into an interview for a big company dressed in your pjs. See how they take your 'fashion is a fad' line.

paddyandy · 31-12-2011 02:41PM

If people can't be bothered to dress in a conventionally acceptable way then there's a good chance their business style is open to speculation as well .

Chuck Stone · 31-12-2011 02:45PM

paddyandy wrote: »

If people can't be bothered to dress in a conventionally acceptable way then there's a good chance their business style is open to speculation as well .

I would have thought the opposite to be true.

People can hide behind their 'fronting up' and buzz words.

later12 · 31-12-2011 02:46PM

Mark200 wrote: »

I never even implied that brilliant people have to wear suits.

But you said that wearing a suit was part of 'conducting oneself'. Is the insinuation that eminent professionals who dress terribly don't know how to 'conduct themselves', or is it just that you think they can get away with it?

My point was that it helps a lot. People make judgements about you before you even open your mouth. If you are looking to persuade someone to hire you or to trust you, then presumably you'd want that initial judgement to be as good as possible.

Which is why we all wear suits: as a concession to people who think it matters. It has nothing to do with conduct or professionalism in itself.

But I'd love to see you go into an interview for a big company dressed in your pjs. See how they take your 'fashion is a fad' line.

You seem to think I'm suggesting that nobody in business cares about the clothes worn by prospective employees. You're wrong. I'm disputing the intrinsic benefits that wearing a suit can bring, not the imaginary benefits that HR flunkeys erroneously perceive.

later12 · 31-12-2011 02:50PM

Chuck Stone wrote: »

People can hide behind their 'fronting up' and buzz words.

Precisely.

Any idiot can buy a suit. But not everybody can be an honest, committed professional; this has nothing to do with suit ownership.

Chuck Stone · 31-12-2011 02:55PM

later10 wrote: »

HR flunkeys

HR flunkeys.

The Schutzstaffel of the corporate world - not quite good enough to fight on the front line and not quite good enough to be in a position of responsibility.

charlemont · 31-12-2011 02:55PM

pmcmahon wrote: »

If ever i need business with someone i never trust a man in a flashy suit.
Normal suits are fine though.

And don't forget the stink of smarm. A smarmy grin is enough to make me want to use the fists.

dj jarvis · 31-12-2011 02:57PM

Mark200 wrote: »

Suits make men far more presentable and professional. It also makes them seem like they actually care. Try going into a job interview wearing a tracksuit and see what happens.

If you're in a professional job and can't be bothered paying attention to your appearance when meeting clients then it says a lot.

Also I think having a business dress code in a workplace helps to encourage a sense of professionalism.

well the problem with that is villains and chancers know that the majority of sheep see the clothes a persons has as a indication of a level of trust , but in reality this has NO basis, and if you live your life even slightly basing your opinion on how one dresses then your going to be repeatedly ripped off and disappointed .

a prime example would be anglo and its well heeled crooks , that assumption worked out well for Ireland didn't it

funny the most heroic thing i saw was done by a guy in filthy clothes and a scabby blanket around his shoulders , while being watched by goons in suits

funny did hitler , stalin and mao blair and bush not all have snappy suites
i dont remember one genocidal mass murderer wearing addids and nike

charlemont · 31-12-2011 03:11PM

The worse outfit I ever seen was a bloke with a pair of dark flat shoes, Blue tracksuit bottoms, A shirt and a demin jacket and to top it of he had a pudding bowl haircut. But he was also minding his own business and not bothering anybody.

paddyandy · 31-12-2011 03:12PM

There are people who CAN'T wear a suit and don't like others wearing them either . They are here on this thread .

Logical Fallacy · 31-12-2011 03:54PM

paddyandy wrote: »

There are people who CAN'T wear a suit and don't like others wearing them either . They are here on this thread .

Why can't they wear a suit?

Do they have 3 arms or something?

hooradiation · 31-12-2011 04:11PM

Chuck Stone wrote: »

What are you on about you silly little person?

It pretty ****ing obvious.
The only people who ever complain about "suits" are adolescents and who gives half a fuck what they think.

I realise I'm not explaining myself so much as just repeating myself, but I'm hoping that'll be enough. It's not a tough concept.

later12 · 31-12-2011 04:24PM

hooradiation wrote: »

The only people who ever complain about "suits" are adolescents

That sounds like pretty adolescent reasoning to me. And not a particularly well developed adolescent.

Should we stop trusting people who wear suits?

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