Why are most hotel workers not Irish ?

gigino · 29-12-2011 02:04PM #1

My brother stayed in a few large hotels in Ireland recently and said even the receptionist, leisure centre staff, waiting staff etc were foreign. Excellent staff, but mostly eastern European. I know the HR person in another large Irish hotel ( well known brand name ) and she said they do not have any Irish people on housekeeping duties / making up rooms. She said they never found any Irish people who could stick the pace.

We Irish seem to work hard when we go abroad. The minimum wage is higher here than in most countries around the world. We have a lot of unemployment here ( half a million ? ) and a lot of emigration. Is it not puzzling we cannot compete here / be as good as foreign workers ?

Sky King · 29-12-2011 02:06PM

A lot of them came here during the boom when working in hotels was beneath Irish people and hung on to their jobs (deservedly) when we had to fk off.

I personally think their culture makes their personalities a bit too 'serious' and impersonal for work in our hospitality industry, and I also think that if people come to Ireland to experience our culture then the hotels should have Irish working in them.

But that's the way the dice fell innit?

freeze4real · 29-12-2011 02:07PM

In fairness the Easter Europeans look way better than the Irish women and one can also say that they're very hard working.

Saila · 29-12-2011 02:07PM

how many of them were hired in the last few years though, that answers it.

MugMugs · 29-12-2011 02:07PM

Cos they're all generally hot! Hot staff is a good perk!

Yakult · 29-12-2011 02:08PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KThDnFOj0Hk

Ostrom · 29-12-2011 02:10PM

We did compete, by producing an educated workforce capable of capitalising on our mid-90's growth. The result was a serious shortfall in service sector labour which in some cases (natural uptake through net immigration aside) required active recruitment.

Biggins · 29-12-2011 02:10PM

Sky King wrote: »

A lot of them came here during the boom when working in hotels was beneath Irish people...

SOME Irish people - not all, or not even a majority! At least if your going to do some tainting, be more accurate and not wrongly impose that it was all!

Of couse the above is just a single silly, narrow mined view. Try looking at a wider picture next time!

Sky King wrote: »

..I personally think their culture is a bit too 'serious' for work in our hospitality industry, and I also think that if people come to Ireland to experience our culture then the hotels should have Irish working in them.

But that's the way the dice fell innit?

What?

Yahew · 29-12-2011 02:14PM

Yakult wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KThDnFOj0Hk

God, do people rely on comic TV to tell them what to think all the bloody time? Every single time somebody mentions this topic, somebody posts that as if it was the most original thing ever. It isn't.

homerjay2005 · 29-12-2011 02:16PM

cos irish people in general wont get out of bed for less than 15euro an hour and want a job that is easy as possible.

foreigners who come here, dont have the luxury of a grand a month + on social welfare to fall back on either if they leave their jobs, so they stay there and work as hard as they can.

29-12-2011 02:18PM

Yahew wrote: »

Every single time somebody mentions this topic, somebody posts that as if it was the most original thing ever. It isn't.

Maybe it's to point out that this topic has been done to death a multitude of times, and the same posts will continually come up every time

Yahew · 29-12-2011 02:18PM

There was a letter in the IT two days ago about this. The number of people employed in the retail sector who were immigrants rose by 17,000 in the last 2 years, while Irish employment declined in that sector ( and everywhere else).

In declining job markets, jobs are in fact being "turked". The whole "morality" about this is spurious nonsense, as are claims of xenophobia. In fact claims of xenophobia are the way middle class poseurs attack the working class, whilst maintaining their control over the non-tradable sector.

Ever wonder why we don't have Hungarian dentists - widely regarded to be the best in Europe - over here? Why do people have to go to Hungary. Answer: the dentist cartel controls the borders, unlike the retail sector workers.

Yahew · 29-12-2011 02:19PM

28064212 wrote: »

Maybe it's to point out that this topic has been done to death a multitude of times, and the same posts will continually come up every time

Maybe its to make no point at all. At the moment jobs are being taken in the retail sector, and Irish working class people cant get those jobs. This is is a recession. Its a genuine complaint, and comic book nonsense is not thinking about it.

( I think the rise in libertarian thinking it due to South Park - showing how controlling mass media can be).

John Doe1 · 29-12-2011 02:20PM

Because Hotel owner hate Irish people. Burn them!!!:mad:

amacachi · 29-12-2011 02:23PM

efla wrote: »

We did compete, by producing an educated workforce capable of capitalising on our mid-90's growth. The result was a serious shortfall in service sector labour which in some cases (natural uptake through net immigration aside) required active recruitment.

Shortfall was caused by inflating construction more than anything else IMO.

BraziliaNZ · 29-12-2011 02:24PM

Jesus who cares. Employers pick the people most suitable for a job. I've taken a couple of jobs abroad throughout the years, the UK, Oz etc are full of hundreds of thousands of Irish, I don't think we have a right to complain about a few fellow EU citizens working in our country. Sigh.

M cebee · 29-12-2011 02:26PM

so they're all on at least minimum wage?

Yahew · 29-12-2011 02:26PM

And that excuse does not fly now. Employers hire foreigners because

1) they can pay less,
2) the immigrants are less aware of their rights.

The idea that the 20% of people now on the dole don't have people who don't want to work ( generally posed as the lazy Irish - which is the only racist terminology used in these debates). That may have been true in the boom. Now, there are clearly people who want to work, because they did two years ago. Or they emigrate now to find work. Seems a crazy situation to me.

strandroad · 29-12-2011 02:31PM

Yahew wrote: »

Ever wonder why we don't have Hungarian dentists - widely regarded to be the best in Europe - over here? Why do people have to go to Hungary. Answer: the dentist cartel controls the borders, unlike the retail sector workers.

Not true, there are Hungarian, Polish etc dentists and GPs practicing in Ireland. GPs or dentists make decent money in their home countries though so they are not as likely to come over as hotel/catering staff, that's all.

Ostrom · 29-12-2011 02:31PM

amacachi wrote: »

Shortfall was caused by inflating construction more than anything else IMO.

Not necessarily - construction represented the lowest proportion of recorded activity for all issued PPSN's between 2002-2009, according to this joint CSO/Revenue report [http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublications/documents/labourmarket/current/ppsn.pdf]

Also new PPS allocations halved between 2004-2009

BraziliaNZ · 29-12-2011 02:32PM

Yahew wrote: »

And that excuse does not fly now. Employers hire foreigners because

1) they can pay less,
2) the immigrants are less aware of their rights.

The idea that the 20% of people now on the dole don't have people who don't want to work ( generally posed as the lazy Irish - which is the only racist terminology used in these debates). That may have been true in the boom. Now, there are clearly people who want to work, because they did two years ago. Or they emigrate now to find work. Seems a crazy situation to me.

I really dont think Irish people emigrate to work in hotels. Educated people are more likely to leave these days. I would rather be on the 188 euro a week dole than work in hotels. I know plenty of people at home gladly living on the dole. If Irish people really wanted those jobs they could get them over foreigners, IMO.

amacachi · 29-12-2011 02:33PM

efla wrote: »

Not necessarily - construction represented the lowest proportion of recorded activity for all issued PPSN's between 2002-2009, according to this joint CSO/Revenue report url]http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublications/documents/labourmarket/current/ppsn.pdf[/url

Also new PPS allocations halved between 2004-2009

Yeah because it was the Irish who went into construction. Why push a hoover for a tenner an hour when you could lug **** around a site for double that.

Ostrom · 29-12-2011 02:37PM

Yahew wrote: »

And that excuse does not fly now. Employers hire foreigners because

1) they can pay less,
2) the immigrants are less aware of their rights.

The idea that the 20% of people now on the dole don't have people who don't want to work ( generally posed as the lazy Irish - which is the only racist terminology used in these debates). That may have been true in the boom. Now, there are clearly people who want to work, because they did two years ago. Or they emigrate now to find work. Seems a crazy situation to me.

And the solution is what....?

Legislate for exploitation throughout times of growth? Insert a clause in their work permits to leave when unemployment increases? Remove their children and extended families from school? Remove their savings?

Depressed wages are not set consciously by employers targeting foreign staff for the sake of savings - and Irish workers were equally complicit in buying into limited security in times of high employment and labour mobility.

Yahew · 29-12-2011 02:37PM

mhge wrote: »

Not true, there are Hungarian, Polish etc dentists and GPs practicing in Ireland. GPs or dentists make decent money in their home countries though so they are not as likely to come over as hotel/catering staff, that's all.

They would have to requalify for dentistry. Medicine is different, for whatever reason.

You have to do this.

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

I really dont think Irish people emigrate to work in hotels. Educated people are more likely to leave these days. I would rather be on the 188 euro a week dole than work in hotels. I know plenty of people at home gladly living on the dole. If Irish people really wanted those jobs they could get them over foreigners, IMO.

I am sure Irish people are working in bars in London, and hotels too.

Yahew · 29-12-2011 02:41PM

Depressed wages are not set consciously by employers targeting foreign staff for the sake of savings - and Irish workers were equally complicit in buying into limited security in times of high employment and labour mobility.

Actually that is exactly what employers are doing. the threat of redundancy is greater if you lose your job and have to go back to Poland as you are not here long enough for the dole.

efla wrote: »

And the solution is what....?

Legislate for exploitation throughout times of growth? Insert a clause in their work permits to leave when unemployment increases? Remove their children and extended families from school? Remove their savings?

Reducing immigration, in general, during a recession is not a bad idea in fact.

Most people think these things are "impossible". Germany largely has controlled it's borders with Poland by opting out of the accession State's workers right to work for 7 years. Even now Polish people - certain of a job here, but not there ( where the unions are stronger, and firing or replacing people is impossible) - come here and not to germany.

Go to ten miles from a Polish border in East Germany and the staff are German. Which is considered normal in Germany.

Biggins · 29-12-2011 02:47PM

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

I really dont think Irish people emigrate to work in hotels. Educated people are more likely to leave these days.

...Whereas I have found MANY Irish people working in hotels at home and abroad (from Nice, France to the USA and Australia) - but its all too easy just to paint all Irish with the same "lazy" or "its beneath them" brush!
Its a lazy, short-sighted view in my opinion.

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

I would rather be on the 188 euro a week dole than work in hotels.

...OK!!!
What! Is the work beneath you?

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

...If Irish people really wanted those jobs they could get them over foreigners, IMO.

Thats FAR too a simplistic view.

* You have fresh people coming here and renting property right away - and fair play to them, joining the work force right away if they can.
(They after while might consider taking on a mortgage but then they too will be looking for hight paid jobs also, to help with such payments!)
* Then you also have your original born and raised here residents who have grown up here and (JUST for example) taken on mortgages, etc.
They sometime cannot AFFORD to take on lower paid jobs - as much as they would like to!

Its too stupidly easy to say that to all Irish, some jobs are beneath them.
A wrong tainting and misunderstanding of a wider problematic picture is not being seen.

mikemac1 · 29-12-2011 02:54PM

Because while employment abuses in construction like pension funds, health and safety and Gama were highlighted and adressed, the hotel sector was ignored by our so called leaders.

Because if you work in a hotel you might finish after the wedding and cleaning the ballroom at four am and you're told to be back for breakfast shift or don't bother coming back at all

European Working Time Directive and minimum rest periods? Hah, they don't exist.

Because wage rates were driven to the bottom. I spent five years in various positions and got to night porter earning the princely sum of twelve euro per hour. I was experienced and I think I was worth it. Management decided two hundred residents was too much for one person, I trained a lovely guy from Poland, my hours were suddenly slashed off the roster and he got my job on minimum wage.

Hotels are cute, they don't fire staff, they just cut your hours and give them to the new hire and force you to leave. You quit so you do not have a case.

But managers are also abused too, trainee hotel manager is awful job on low pay and the hours you work should be illegal.
And then managers do what they've learned and in turn bully the staff

You would be fired in an office for the way head chefs treat their staff but then some admire the Gordon Ramsey types. All that shouting is wasted energy and achieves nothing. You can be passionate and a leader without it

And finally because posters on this site seem to hate this country and its people.
ALL Irish people think they are too good for these jobs? :rolleyes: Well who was doing them before mass immigration.
And ALL Eastern Europeans are better workers? Not at all, some are great, some are pissheads, no nationality is better or worse for that.

BraziliaNZ · 29-12-2011 02:55PM

Biggins wrote: »

What! Is the work beneath you?

Yes it is, at this stage in my life.

Biggins · 29-12-2011 02:59PM

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

Yes it is, at this stage in my life.

What stage?

I know of elderly folk working in local hotels.
I know of disabled working in local hotels, etc.
Hell, I know of far high qualified people working in hotels just so they could be still working!

Why is hotel work beneath you? Genuine question.

BraziliaNZ · 29-12-2011 03:04PM

Biggins wrote: »

What stage?

I know of elderly folk working in local hotels.
I know of disabled working in local hotels, etc.
Hell, I know of far high qualified people working in hotels just so they could be still working!

Why is hotel work beneath you? Genuine question.

Because I worked hard to be in a situation where I'm never stuck for work in my profession. I did my time in hotels and bars, loved it, but the money is not good enough for how I like to roll these days. And it's a pain in the ass. I don't do much these days and get a good salary. What's wrong with that?

Biggins · 29-12-2011 03:09PM

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

Because I worked hard to be in a situation where I'm never stuck for work in my profession. I did my time in hotels and bars, loved it, but the money is not good enough for how I like to roll these days. What's wrong with that?

Absolutely nothing wrong with that.
Its not that the work is beneath you then - its because you cannot afford to live the lifestyle you currently have dues to lower pay rates.

...Which sort of gives an example of what I mentioned earlier, ie: others sometimes cannot AFFORD to take on lower paid jobs - as much as they would like to!

Its NOT just because some Irish think a hotel job is beneath them!
Thats a stupid kop-out excuse used by other ignorant people.

Why are most hotel workers not Irish ?

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