Any [Dublin] pubs/clubs open tonight [Christmas Day]?

Kevin Duffy · 26-12-2011 09:06PM

Deleted User wrote: »

as long as Ireland remains a catholic country (and yes it remains one now) I don't see the problem with one of the longest traditions being upheld. Why don't all the people who take offense to the fact that pubs are closed do something about it? Seriously why not get out there and try and have the law changed.

No it doesn't, you're working hard to maintain that fiction. Falling mass attendences, increasing number of adherents of other religions, closing our Vatican embassy, open criticism of the church in the Dáil and the fact that the Catholic church has opted to close the process by which lapsed Catholics could record the fact they they were leaving the church, owing to the increasing numbers taking that step - all points to a church in rapid decline which increasingly marginalised and irrelevant to more and more people.

Micky Dolenz · 26-12-2011 09:14PM

Ireland is by and far a Catholic country. They own an enormous amount of our infrastructure, schools, Hospitals, "Community halls" etc.

we live in a Catholic country like Iranians live in a Muslim one.

Kevin Duffy · 26-12-2011 09:19PM

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Ireland is by and far a Catholic country. They own an enormous amount of our infrastructure, schools, Hospitals, "Community halls" etc.

we live in a Catholic country like Iranians live in a Muslim one.

Except that Iran's full title is the "Islamic Republic of Iran", so no, we don't. We don't have a State religion. The closest we have to that is the "special position" of the Catholic church in the constitution, which counts for little. The ownership of the buildings means little, they're mostly staffed by non-religious staff.

Micky Dolenz · 26-12-2011 09:25PM

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

Except that Iran's full title is the "Islamic Republic of Iran", so no, we don't. We don't have a State religion. The closest we have to that is the "special position" of the Catholic church in the constitution, which counts for little. The ownership of the buildings means little, they're mostly staffed by non-religious staff.

I hear what you are saying but that's not the reality of the situation. the reality is certainly changing but for now the church have a tight grip on this country.

Property rights will always mean something in any country, no mind ours.
The CC is a massive land owner here, only probably second to the state.

Land holding has only a small part in it however.

As long as we continue to indoctrinate our children into the Catholic Church it will remain strong. As long as they control our schools, they will remain strong. "Shur, I couldn't have jonny/mary being the only kid in the class who didn't get dressed up for their communion"

26-12-2011 09:28PM

Sofiztikated wrote: »

My point about the bank holidays is exactly that. They have the option to open or not. I don't know what "the puss" are though.

I really don't get what having to have a guaranteed day off over Christmas has to do with it? Honestly, I don't. As I mentioned, I've worked 10 of the last 15 Christmases. I'm still alive.

I assume you are a catholic. Answer me this. Do you use contraception?

EDIT: Actually, **** it. I don't care.

Obviously puss refers to pubs, it was a typo and that you picked up on it in such a manner implies that you are simply looking for an argument. And no I am not catholic.

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

No it doesn't, you're working hard to maintain that fiction. Falling mass attendences, increasing number of adherents of other religions, closing our Vatican embassy, open criticism of the church in the Dáil and the fact that the Catholic church has opted to close the process by which lapsed Catholics could record the fact they they were leaving the church, owing to the increasing numbers taking that step - all points to a church in rapid decline which increasingly marginalised and irrelevant to more and more people.

The church is in decline but all across the country churches are full every Sunday. According to the 2001 and 2002 census in Northern and Southern Ireland 74% of the country is Roman Catholic. It's going to be interesting to see the results of the last census but I strongly doubt that the results will show that much of a drop. As it stands Ireland is still for all intents and purposes a Catholic country.

As I've already said why don't those so again the Christmas Day closing try and do something about it. It's quite easy to complain on a forum board but another thing entirely to actually get out there and do something about it.

Personally I find the whole abuse within the church to be sicking but rather than simply sit back and tut my head at what a disgrace it was I've been working on a documentary where I interview many of those who suffered the most.

Kevin Duffy · 26-12-2011 09:33PM

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

I hear what you are saying but that's not the reality of the situation. the reality is certainly changing but for now the church have a tight grip on this country.

Property rights will always mean something in any country, no mind ours.
The CC is a massive land owner here, only probably second to the state.

Land holding has only a small part in it however.

As long as we continue to indoctrinate our children into the Catholic Church it will remain strong. As long as they control our schools, they will remain strong. "Shur, I couldn't have jonny/mary being the only kid in the class who didn't get dressed up for their communion"

I disagree. The speech by EK (you know the one) along with the embassy closure has put considerable strain and distance into the relationship. That gap will grow. Dairmuid Martin's pop at smorgasbord Catholics will lead to more widening. The debate on removing religious from school management is open. IIRC, the ownership of the buildings is also up for change too. The grip is looser than ever and getting looser.

The reason the "count me out" process was closed at the church's end was because they were watching the numbers rise. Sting of a dying wasp maybe.

Sofiztikated · 26-12-2011 09:33PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Obviously puss refers to pubs, it was a typo and that you picked up on it in such a manner implies that you are simply looking for an argument. And no I am not catholic.

No, I wasn't just looking for an argument, I actually didn't know what you meant. It could have been some local establishment.

Everything else, as I said, forget about it. I'm not arguing with you any more.

26-12-2011 09:37PM

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

I disagree. The speech by EK (you know the one) along with the embassy closure has put considerable strain and distance into the relationship. That gap will grow. Dairmuid Martin's pop at smorgasbord Catholics will lead to more widening. The debate on removing religious from school management is open. IIRC, the ownership of the buildings is also up for change too. The grip is looser than ever and getting looser.

The reason the "count me out" process was closed at the church's end was because they were watching the numbers rise. Sting of a dying wasp maybe.

The church being removed from school system is a good thing and the loosening of their grip on society can only bring result in a better country. But till such a time as the majority of the country is no longer catholic we all will have to continue to make certain sacrifices, not being able to get a pint on Christmas Day or Good Friday is one of them.

leggo · 26-12-2011 09:41PM

Deleted User wrote: »

how many bar staff would be told either work Christmas Day or don't bother coming in the day after.

Woo! 3-day weekend!

Micky Dolenz · 26-12-2011 09:43PM

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

I disagree. The speech by EK (you know the one) along with the embassy closure has put considerable strain and distance into the relationship. That gap will grow. Dairmuid Martin's pop at smorgasbord Catholics will lead to more widening. The debate on removing religious from school management is open. IIRC, the ownership of the buildings is also up for change too. The grip is looser than ever and getting looser.

The reason the "count me out" process was closed at the church's end was because they were watching the numbers rise. Sting of a dying wasp maybe.

You need to start thinking more locally. it's not so much about the Vatican, it's about the people who control your local school, your local hospital, your local everything.

what Kenny did was lip service, great for the cameras.The withdrawal of our diplomatic office there was a economically wise one. We have a very capable counsellor in Rome just around the corner. When they start buying Catholic school buildings and make them non-denominational I'll stand up and take notice.

Mark200 · 26-12-2011 10:35PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Why don't we simply try to turn Christmas day into just another day of the week for anyone who isn't Catholic. After all it is their day so why do so many of us non-Catholics celebrate it?

Emmm it was actually a secular day until Christianity stole it.

And your argument about kids not being able to say Happy Christmas is rubbish. You sound like you've been staring at Fox News for the last two weeks.

Also, even if that argument was true it'd still be missing the point. You're annoyed at the idea of forced secularism, so therefore you argue in favour of forced Catholicism? I don't want either. People should be free to do whatever they want. That's the argument I'm making.

And your "there are bigger things to worry about" point is pretty annoying. So what if there are? You can say that about nearly every single thing in the world. Does that mean we, and our politicians, should just sit with folded arms refusing to discuss or argue anything unless the topic is the most important thing in the world? Just because there may be countries in worse conditions than Ireland does not mean we should settle for what we have.

"Ireland is forcing Catholicism on us"

"Well Iran stones people to death"

"Fair point"

26-12-2011 10:57PM

Mark200 wrote: »

Emmm it was actually a secular day until Christianity stole it.

And your argument about kids not being able to say Happy Christmas is rubbish. You sound like you've been staring at Fox News for the last two weeks.

Also, even if that argument was true it'd still be missing the point. You're annoyed at the idea of forced secularism, so therefore you argue in favour of forced Catholicism? I don't want either. People should be free to do whatever they want. That's the argument I'm making.

And your "there are bigger things to worry about" point is pretty annoying. So what if there are? You can say that about nearly every single thing in the world. Does that mean we, and our politicians, should just sit with folded arms refusing to discuss or argue anything unless the topic is the most important thing in the world? Just because there may be countries in worse conditions than Ireland does not mean we should settle for what we have.

"Ireland is forcing Catholicism on us"

"Well Iran stones people to death"

"Fair point"

I wasn't arguing that kids cant say happy Christmas, merely relaying what a teacher I know told me about the school she works in. Kids are taught not to wish one another a merry Christmas as the head and others found that it may offend kids who are not catholic.

I believe that everyone should be free to do as they please but when you live in a catholic country you have to accept certain things that you may not agree with. As long as the majority of Irish citizens remains catholic then certain things will remain as they are.

Look, as I said before if the forced closure of pubs on Christmas Day and Good Friday annoy you so much why don't you actively get out there and try to do something about it. We hear the same tired arguments every year when in the run up to the days but no one ever does anything about it bar complain about the great injustice of it on the internet.

As an atheist, I recognise that there are certain things which will occur in Ireland or in any country for that fact, where the large majority of the population are of one particular religion. I simply choose to ignore the irritation and respect the fact that beliefs of a large portion of the country are being respected.

If people want to be outraged by anything then the closing of Pubs has to be pretty low on the list. People will put far more passion and time into complaining about the pub closure than they will the closing of hospitals or the current state of our country.

pandabrian · 28-12-2011 11:02AM

Sofiztikated wrote: »

Point 1.

There is nothing stopping a business opening or closing on a Bank Holiday. Not one.

Point 2. Utter bolox. And even if (and I say IF) they do work for a number of days in a row, you can be more than guarenteed they a) get paid for it, b) they get their time back when it's quiet and z) hospitality is a service based business. Don't ****ing whinge about being busy when most people are off. It's all part of it! That's when you are busy.

You have a penchant for using the slang word "bolox". A true sign of a lazy mind.

BraziliaNZ · 28-12-2011 11:42AM

I had a great few pints in my local in London on Xmas day, all the regulars made an appearance and was good craic. The bar shut about 5 and then the barman went off to have dinner somewhere. I knew no one really who was staying in London this Xmas so what's so sad about wanting to go to where everyone knows me for a few drinks?

Any [Dublin] pubs/clubs open tonight [Christmas Day]?

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