Racism - Mod Note on 1st Post - Read before posting.

Giggsy11 · 21-12-2011 02:03PM

Luis Suárez racism ban: PFA head Gordon Taylor supports FA's decision

• Taylor backs 'very strong message' over racist abuse
• Lord Herman Ouseley urges consistent tough stance

Luis Suárez's eight-match ban for racially abusing Patrice Evra has been supported by the head of the Professional Footballers' Association as "a very strong message to the rest of the world".

The Uruguyan Liverpool striker is expected to appeal against the suspension, with his defence being that he was unaware that language acceptable in his country was viewed as racist in Europe. Liverpool reacted angrily to the punishment for the 24-year-old, who was also fined £40,000 by an FA independent regulatory commission.

Gordon Taylor, the chief executive of the PFA, said the sanction was an important message, especially after the outcry at the Fifa president Sepp Blatter's remarks – later retracted – that racism on the pitch should be settled by a handshake.

Taylor said: "This was an independent commission experienced in law and football and they must have had compelling evidence, and it sends out a very strong message to the rest of the world.

"I understand the point about cultural differences but if you come to this country all players have to abide by not just the laws of the game but the laws of the land as well. Referring to someone's skin colour has got to be offensive – it's self-evident.

"No one can say the FA have ducked this issue and bearing in mind outcry in this country over Sepp Blatter's remarks it sends out an important message. This is a timely reminder for the FA, the PFA and the clubs to continue education programmes particularly for players coming from abroad: it is never right to make reference to a person's skin colour or nationality."

Taylor said the high-profile nature of the issue, with two of the biggest clubs in the world, would reinforce the message.

He added: "This is a situation involving two of our biggest clubs and a very sensitive time and it reiterates the message we want to get out. We are a multicultural society and a cosmopolitan league and players must have equal respect for people regardless of their nationality or skin colour.

"You can understand Liverpool being upset as they are a top quality club with a top quality manager but perhaps it is a timely reminder that players new to this country need to be advised about what is unacceptable."

Lord Herman Ouseley, the chairman of the anti-racism campaign Kick It Out, also backed the FA's punishment and urged the game's authorities to maintain a tough stance.

Asked if this was the landmark case Kick it Out needed, Ouseley told the BBC: "It's not that Kick it Out needed it, it's football needs it.

"It is quite important that the football authorities take the decisive action where the evidence is there, where they carried out thorough investigations, to impose sanctions that would hopefully prevent other players from not maintaining the standards of conduct that are expected in any professional arena.

"And professional football is such that if players who are very expensively paid to perform their functions, providing entertainment, also have a code of conduct that if breached it's professional misconduct and therefore it requires the sanctions that are to be imposed.

"It remains to be seen whether the FA will maintain a tough stance and consistency that is needed to see this through, we're still in a process…"

The former FA executive director David Davies told the BBC the case was "one of the most difficult of modern times because of language and cultural issues".

"The FA has been at the forefront of fighting racism over more than a decade, and using football to do so – perhaps way ahead of Uefa, let alone Fifa," said Davies.

tommyhaas · 21-12-2011 02:06PM

mixed up wrote: »

It's all a load of bo**ox what would happen if evra had called suarez a white f**ker? nothing. Suarez called evra a black whatever so if he should be banned for anything it should be for using foul language if he used it.I can't believe the crap over this if a player is black or white what difference does it make?Evra you ARE black get over it :mad: I think evra is the person with a problem about his colour not suarez.I mean evra is black and has a problem being called black :rolleyes: I'm white and won't cry if you call me white.

Holy fooking God. Can you not appreciate the whole concept that racial abuse for various reasons has no place in society? Did you have the same opinion when people threw bananas at John Barnes?

What about the abuse many Irish people took in the UK in the 70's and 80's particularly? Was that ok on the basis that they were Irish?

Leiva · 21-12-2011 02:07PM

cambo2008 wrote: »

For a second there I thought mixed nuts had finally lost it

Not yet !

Mr.Crinklewood · 21-12-2011 02:07PM

A couple of different types if posters in here:-

Those from either club who are naturally blinkered.

The decent posters from either club who can see both viewpoints and the reasons behind them.

The neutrals.

All of the above are perfectly acceptable, even those that are as blinkered as Red Rum.

The remainder are hopefully just looking for a response, either that or they are pure ignorant, not in relation to just this situation but to society in general. These guys and girls should not really be on here or humoured with a response.

tommyhaas · 21-12-2011 02:11PM

The FA has got to be consistent, but it has also got to be fair

A quote on the BBC from former FA chief David Davies. The same David Davies who admitted Alan Shearer was shown leniency because he was England Capt. after Neil Lennon headbutted Shearer's foot

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/16282405.stm

mixed up · 21-12-2011 02:11PM

tommyhaas wrote: »

Holy fooking God. Can you not appreciate the whole concept that racial abuse for various reasons has no place in society? Did you have the same opinion when people threw bananas at John Barnes?

What about the abuse many Irish people took in the UK in the 70's and 80's particularly? Was that ok on the basis that they were Irish?

I so angry right now about all the abuse the irish took :mad: I am a paddy i'm going off to cry now

K-9 · 21-12-2011 02:13PM

eigrod wrote: »

Of course it matters. The FA haven't told us what word he used. It might have been "negro". It might have been "negrito". It might have been neither.

We're all still waiting for them to release the report where the "evidence" is going to be presented and quite frankly I think it's disgraceful that this wasn't provided to Suarez and/or Liverpool in advance of the punishment being handed down.

I'd be very surprised if Liverpool haven't got the full verdict tbh. They'd need to have it decide how to appeal.

DDC1990 · 21-12-2011 02:18PM

tommyhaas wrote: »

Holy fooking God. Can you not appreciate the whole concept that racial abuse for various reasons has no place in society? Did you have the same opinion when people threw bananas at John Barnes?

What about the abuse many Irish people took in the UK in the 70's and 80's particularly? Was that ok on the basis that they were Irish?

There is a difference between calling someone Negro/Negrito, and throwing Banana's at someone. One is a clear attempt to put someone down because of their colour. The other is a word thats culturally acceptable in Spanish speaking countries... but not acceptable in England, (where the language the word originates from isn't used at all), because of its direct translation.

Also on the Irish thing, of course thats not Ok, but if you called someone an Irish F*cker, then (a) The player wouldn't complain, and (b) The complaint would be brushed aside pretty quickly.

Also if you're going down the line of discrimination of nationalities, then you should be all for an Evra ban of 8 games for abusing Suarez for being South American?

Leiva · 21-12-2011 02:21PM

How anyone can call Suarez a racist is beyond me.

Some of the back headlines on most of the usual Rags this morning are beyond shameful .

Mr.Crinklewood · 21-12-2011 02:26PM

Too much fishing going in here. Sensible posters please do not rise to the bait.

s_carnage · 21-12-2011 02:26PM

eigrod wrote: »

Of course it matters. The FA haven't told us what word he used. It might have been "negro". It might have been "negrito". It might have been neither.

We're all still waiting for them to release the report where the "evidence" is going to be presented and quite frankly I think it's disgraceful that this wasn't provided to Suarez and/or Liverpool in advance of the punishment being handed down.

But Dalglish & Suarez has. Dalglish backed up that Suarez admitted calling him negro once during the game.

jonnyfingers · 21-12-2011 02:31PM

I have to chime in on the fact people are quoting here that Negro/Negrito is an acceptable word in South America.

That's fine. But Suarez has claimed that he didn't know he was causing offense. This is the part I don't believe.

First, he has been playing in Europe for quite a while so should well know the alternative meaning of that work.

Second, even if he was completely oblivious, if he says it once and Evra reacted badly to it he should have thought there might be a problem with the word. If he said it again he should know damn well that that word is causing offense. From what I've read he continued to say it, which suggests to me he knew what he was doing and deserves punishment.

As for the ban, 8 games is excessive. But if this is going to be the start of a real clamp down on racism I think a precedent needs to be set. The important thing is that the FA need to be consistent from now on, something they've not been very good at in the past.

But more realistically I think they wanted to give a 4 match ban, and knowing that an appeal is likely to get a reduced ban they set it high initially.

But regardless of the appeal outcome a tough stance needs to be taken on racism to show it's unacceptable, this means fully punishing players in future for their behaviour, no matter what club they play for.

tommyhaas · 21-12-2011 02:33PM

DDC1990 wrote: »

There is a difference between calling someone Negro/Negrito, and throwing Banana's at someone. One is a clear attempt to put someone down because of their colour. The other is a word thats culturally acceptable in Spanish speaking countries... but not acceptable in England, (where the language the word originates from isn't used at all), because of its direct translation.

Also on the Irish thing, of course thats not Ok, but if you called someone an Irish F*cker, then (a) The player wouldn't complain, and (b) The complaint would be brushed aside pretty quickly.

Also if you're going down the line of discrimination of nationalities, then you should be all for an Evra ban of 8 games for abusing Suarez for being South American?

My point wasn't intended as a comparison to Suarez's alleged remarks, it was aimed at the ridiculousness of the previous posters attempt to downplay the seriousness of racism in general

eigrod · 21-12-2011 02:34PM

s_carnage wrote: »

But Dalglish & Suarez has. Dalglish backed up that Suarez admitted calling him negro once during the game.

Where is there a direct quote from Dalglish on that ? I'm genuinely interested.

SlickRic · 21-12-2011 02:35PM

the only thing that I, and anyone still intelligently debating this, should be concerned with in terms of the verdict, is whether Liverpool's claim that it was simply Evra's word against Suarez, is accurate.

if it is, the FA have a lot of explaining to do.

if it's not, Liverpool look childish and ridiculous.

there is no middle ground there.

eigrod · 21-12-2011 02:37PM

SlickRic wrote: »

the only thing that I, and anyone still intelligently debating this, should be concerned with in terms of the verdict, is whether Liverpool's claim that it was simply Evra's word against Suarez, is accurate.

if it is, the FA have a lot of explaining to do.

if it's not, Liverpool look childish and ridiculous.

there is no middle ground there.

Exactly.

What's up for discussion now is how they came to the verdict, ie what evidence they used to come to the conclusion they published on their website yesterday evening. Until we see that, then it just looks like a kanagaroo court.

tommyhaas · 21-12-2011 02:41PM

SlickRic wrote: »

the only thing that I, and anyone still intelligently debating this, should be concerned with in terms of the verdict, is whether Liverpool's claim that it was simply Evra's word against Suarez, is accurate.

if it is, the FA have a lot of explaining to do.

if it's not, Liverpool look childish and ridiculous.

there is no middle ground there.

It certainly comes across in the statement that that is what they are implying. The FA's insistence that the case be tighter then a ducks arse, coupled with the various leaks regarding the negrito phrase suggest to me that the club pointing at Evra's word only relates to the context as oppose to the content of what was said, which if true seems to be a deliberate attempt to paint the judgement in an unjust light

Blatter · 21-12-2011 02:41PM

SlickRic wrote: »

the only thing that I, and anyone still intelligently debating this, should be concerned with in terms of the verdict, is whether Liverpool's claim that it was simply Evra's word against Suarez, is accurate.

if it is, the FA have a lot of explaining to do.

if it's not, Liverpool look childish and ridiculous.

there is no middle ground there.

I took from Liverpool's statement that it was Evra's word v Suaraz's word in terms of context of what was said, not the content.

That's the only logical conclusion I can come up with because it's utterly inconceivable that The FA came to a conclusion solely based on one man's word against another's.

I think parts of the Liverpool statement were deliberately ambiguous in an attempt to muddy the waters and create more doubt.

I think it was their tactic from the get go, create as much doubt as possible and he can't be found guilty.

I'm sure The FA's report will clear it up either way.

SlickRic · 21-12-2011 02:44PM

oh yes, it's all about context, i should've made that clear.

sure Suarez has admitted using a word...be it negro, negrito or whatever.

DDC1990 · 21-12-2011 02:44PM

jonnyfingers wrote: »

I have to chime in on the fact people are quoting here that Negro/Negrito is an acceptable word in South America.

That's fine. But Suarez has claimed that he didn't know he was causing offense. This is the part I don't believe.

First, he has been playing in Europe for quite a while so should well know the alternative meaning of that work.

Second, even if he was completely oblivious, if he says it once and Evra reacted badly to it he should have thought there might be a problem with the word. If he said it again he should know damn well that that word is causing offense. From what I've read he continued to say it, which suggests to me he knew what he was doing and deserves punishment.

As for the ban, 8 games is excessive. But if this is going to be the start of a real clamp down on racism I think a precedent needs to be set. The important thing is that the FA need to be consistent from now on, something they've not been very good at in the past.

But more realistically I think they wanted to give a 4 match ban, and knowing that an appeal is likely to get a reduced ban they set it high initially.

But regardless of the appeal outcome a tough stance needs to be taken on racism to show it's unacceptable, this means fully punishing players in future for their behaviour, no matter what club they play for.

What exactly have you read, because as far as I know, Evra is the only one saying this happened multiple times. The rest of the reports say it was one exchange; "Pour'que Negro/Negrito". Again as i've said, if the official report states evidence saying otherwise then i'll be happy to admit im wrong.

Also why should the fact that he's been in Europe change anything. He would still return home regularly, and be in contact with other Spanish speaking players in Holland. The word Negrito is used between Spanish speaking players, read Tim Vickary's article on the BBC Sport website to see the extent its used in Uruaguay without a thought of racism. It is literally like calling Kuyt Blondie.

Total heresay, but I would guess that the fact that the conversation was in Spanish, that he presumed Evra wouldn't take offence, like his teammates in South America. But Evra quite understandably took offence to this word, which was in his mind, said with intent to put him down.

IF this was the situation then 8 matches is rediculous. It could have been, to Quote Sepp Blatter, Solved with a Handshake and a quick explaination.

Thats my biased opinion. Not just defending Suarez, but just making my own judgement on what little evidence there is out there.

s_carnage · 21-12-2011 02:44PM

eigrod wrote: »

Where is there a direct quote from Dalglish on that ? I'm genuinely interested.

I've already quoted the article twice today but here is the link:

Telegraph

It doesn't have the full quotes from the press conference and I have no idea where you would get a transcript of it but I would imagine if the Telegraph made this up there would have been already serious consequences resulting from it and retracted the article.

Blatter · 21-12-2011 02:47PM

SlickRic wrote: »

oh yes, it's all about context, i should've made that clear.

sure Suarez has admitted using a word...be it negro, negrito or whatever.

Well, apparently so.

But Liverpool's statement don't make that clear, deliberately imo.

I would assume further evidence of context could easily have been video evidence, it was obvious Evra was in a wound up state and the pair were not engaging in friendly banter.

Brain Stroking · 21-12-2011 02:47PM

s_carnage wrote: »

I've already quoted the article twice today but here is the link:

Telegraph

It doesn't have the full quotes from the press conference and I have no idea where you would get a transcript of it but I would imagine if the Telegraph made this up there would have been already serious consequences resulting from it and retracted the article.

Another statement from Liverpool in that article:

“It is also our opinion that the accusation by this particular player was not credible – certainly no more credible than his prior unfounded accusations,” said the Liverpool statement.

What prior accusations?

Warper · 21-12-2011 02:48PM

SlickRic wrote: »

oh yes, it's all about context, i should've made that clear.

sure Suarez has admitted using a word...be it negro, negrito or whatever.

This is the problem. If racism is to be taken seriously then a lenghty ban is whats needed. There is no place for it and Suarez needs to be made an example of or what sort of precedence are the FA setting? With all the crap over Blatter's comments lately, the FA needs to come down hard on Suarez for what he did. 8 game minimum and the fine he recd. of 40k is a joke, it should be 500k.

Sgt Pepper 64 · 21-12-2011 02:49PM

just waiting for Terry to be cleared.
Cue Daglish meltdown! :eek:

eigrod · 21-12-2011 03:00PM

s_carnage wrote: »

I've already quoted the article twice today but here is the link:

Telegraph

It doesn't have the full quotes from the press conference and I have no idea where you would get a transcript of it but I would imagine if the Telegraph made this up there would have been already serious consequences resulting from it and retracted the article.

Again, that's just a journalist's report on the events. Maybe it was leaked, maybe it was not. If that article was written a week earlier, it would have used the term "negrito" so there's clearly some confusion there. The FA haven't specified, as yet, the word that was used in relation to Evra's skin colour.

SlickRic · 21-12-2011 03:01PM

lads, keep it on point.

gif taken out, no need, it's been out multiple times.

as are the "negro" comments needless, so cut it out.

djPSB · 21-12-2011 03:03PM

"We are all the same. I go to the field with the maximum illusion of a little child who enjoys what he does, not to create conflicts."

I think Suarez's biting incident from last year and the finger gesture to the Fulham fans conflict his tweet above.

Blatter · 21-12-2011 03:04PM

Originally Posted by Gus Poyet

The ban is incredible, shocking, it's disproportionate. I back Luis to death.
"Things have happened before with Evra. He is not a saint. He is a controversial player.
"I don't know in which world we are going to live in from now on people. People will accuse each other of anything.
"Suarez just arrived [in the Premier League] and there are things that he has to learn when you are in another country because they might be normal in your country but perhaps they are not considered that way in other parts of the world.
"I have tried to explain that we live with coloured people in Uruguay. We share different experiences with them. We play football, we share parties. We are born, we grow up and we die with them. We call them 'blacks' in a natural way, even in an affectionate way. That is the way we were brought up. We are integrated and there are no problems from either side.
"I've explained how the Uruguay people and the South Americans experience these situations with coloured people. I've been many years in England and I understand them. I know how to deal with it, but Luis has only recently arrived here."

FFS, I didn't think he could stoop any lower.

Giggsy11 · 21-12-2011 03:06PM

Gus Poyet *palm*

Racism - Mod Note on 1st Post - Read before posting.

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