TDs urging people not to pay tax - criminal negligence?

Chucky the tree · 19-12-2011 09:34PM

gerryo777 wrote: »

With regard to the Greek situation, I think you'll find that they had their debts written down by 40-50% and one of the reasons was a campaign of civil disorder.
Ireland, on the other hand lies down and does what merkozy tells it to do while waiting for some crumbs to be thrown from the table!

I never heard about this. I'd love to read about it if you have links etc to where ECB/EU said one of the reason was the campaign of civil disorder.

mikom · 19-12-2011 09:40PM

TDs urging people to wear condoms - criminal negligence?

TDs urging women to vote - criminal negligence?

TDs urging women to continue working in the civil service once they get married - criminal negligence?

TDs urging homosexuals to show their love in a physical way - criminal negligence?

bmaxi · 19-12-2011 10:13PM

hallelujajordan wrote: »

But yet, when the current government try to reverse this situation by putting in place a tax that will fund local government and remove some of this management company need you object ? Go figure !

So you never leave your estate then ??

How do you think the water gets to the gates of your estate and who is responsible for managing leaks etc outside ? And what happens to the sewage when it gets to the gates of your estate . .

You are using lots of local authority services whether you chose to accept it or not. .

It won't remove the Management Company from my estate. A water charge is proposed so I would expect that to cover repairs to the water and sewage systems, what other reason could it be for?
The fact remains, all these systems were in place and accepted before FF went on their orgy of vote buying, what was not in place was a tax on the family home.

Jimmy Garlic · 19-12-2011 10:40PM

mikom wrote: »

TDs urging people to wear condoms - criminal negligence?

TDs urging women to vote - criminal negligence?

TDs urging women to continue working in the civil service once they get married - criminal negligence?

TDs urging homosexuals to show their love in a physical way - criminal negligence?

Blasphemy is still illegal in this backward sh**hole so it doesn't surprise me that oppsition to punitive taxation would surely be deemed by statist fruitcakes to be ''criminal negligence''.

Icepick · 19-12-2011 10:40PM

mikom wrote: »

TDs urging people to wear condoms - criminal negligence?

TDs urging women to vote - criminal negligence?

TDs urging women to continue working in the civil service once they get married - criminal negligence?

TDs urging homosexuals to show their love in a physical way - criminal negligence?

€100 tax on property is a human rights issue now?

Jimmy Garlic · 19-12-2011 10:53PM

Icepick wrote: »

€100 tax on property is a human rights issue now?

Get back to us when you are paying €1000 because €100 is just a foot in the door. Why should people have to pay the government to live in a dwelling that they already paid/pay for.. For some services that don't exist? is that the reason why people should pay?. In case you haven't noticed most everything in this country is sh1t, the rest we pay for already.

gerryo777 · 19-12-2011 10:54PM

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I never heard about this. I'd love to read about it if you have links etc to where ECB/EU said one of the reason was the campaign of civil disorder.

They're hardly going to put out a statement to that effect are they??

tayto lover · 19-12-2011 10:57PM

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Why is it an 'unjust taxation' . . most modern society's have some form of local taxation to fund local services . . What the government are asking us to pay as a tax on our property is a very small amount of money, considering that we pay E160 pa on our TV licence. .

I just don't get the 'unjust' argument.

You will when it's 500e in a year or two.

Chucky the tree · 19-12-2011 11:07PM

gerryo777 wrote: »

They're hardly going to put out a statement to that effect are they??

Oh so you've no idea if that had any influence then.

wonderfulname · 19-12-2011 11:49PM

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Get back to us when you are paying €1000 because €100 is just a foot in the door. Why should people have to pay the government to live in a dwelling that they already paid/pay for.. For some services that don't exist? is that the reason why people should pay?. In case you haven't noticed most everything in this country is sh1t, the rest we pay for already.

Okay, so a thousand euro is a human rights issue... just reflect for a minute on how relatively good this country must be for you to be able to even imply that.

Xenophile · 19-12-2011 11:49PM

Watch how quickly these guys pay up when their salary is witheld for not having a Tax Clearance Cert. I wonder do RTE need these certs before they can pay their contributors.

djpbarry · 20-12-2011 12:15AM

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Why should people have to pay the government to live in a dwelling that they already paid/pay for.. For some services that don't exist?

Roads, footpaths, street lighting, traffic lights, street cleaning, etc. don't exist?

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

In case you haven't noticed most everything in this country is sh1t...

Relative to what?

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

...the rest we pay for already.

No you don't. That's why there's a massive hole in the public finances.

Liam Byrne · 20-12-2011 12:27AM

Roads (road tax)
footpaths (none here)
street lighting (none here)
traffic lights (none here, covered by road tax anyway)
street cleaning (none here)

hallelujajordan · 20-12-2011 12:34AM

bmaxi wrote: »

It won't remove the Management Company from my estate. A water charge is proposed so I would expect that to cover repairs to the water and sewage systems, what other reason could it be for?
The fact remains, all these systems were in place and accepted before FF went on their orgy of vote buying, what was not in place was a tax on the family home.

But there is no water charge yet and if you accept the principle of the water charge then surely its not a stretch to accept the principle of a household charge to pay for all of the other services the local authorities provide . . ?

tayto lover wrote: »

You will when it's 500e in a year or two.

No I won't . . I think it should be higher than €100 and i think it is a much fairer (and long term, more sustainable) way to raise tax revenue than most of our other transaction based taxes.

hallelujajordan · 20-12-2011 12:35AM

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Roads (road tax)
footpaths (none here)
street lighting (none here)
traffic lights (none here, covered by road tax anyway)
street cleaning (none here)

Sewage ? Emergency services ? Library Services ? Waterworks ?

Besides, do you believe that each of us should only pay for the services we individually have access to . . ?

Jimmy Garlic · 20-12-2011 12:39AM

djpbarry wrote: »

Roads, footpaths, street lighting, traffic lights, street cleaning, etc. don't exist?

PAID FOR ALREADY. You should check out the motor tax rates in the UK, a fraction of what we pay here and they don't toll their motorways.

Relative to what?

Nearly anywhere else in Western Europe

No you don't. That's why there's a massive hole in the public finances.

Don't be talking complete BS. I pay for my refuse collection, I pay for my water , I paid for my septic tank. I have PAID ENOUGH! GOT IT?

The reason there is there's a massive hole in the public finances is because money was shoveled into private banks and brown envelopes.

HAVE YOU BEEN ASLEEP FOR THE LAST 10 YEARS?.

hallelujajordan · 20-12-2011 12:57AM

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

PAID FOR ALREADY. You should check out the motor tax rates in the UK, a fraction of what we pay here and they don't toll their motorways.

And in 2008 the average annual council tax in the UK was nearly €1400 . . We are complaining about paying €100

Don't be talking complete BS. I pay for my refuse collection, I pay for my water , I paid for my septic tank. I have PAID ENOUGH! GOT IT?

Given that we don't yet have domestic water charges you must be one of the very few on a private water scheme (which, btw is also subsidised by the local authority) . .

The reason there is there's a massive hole in the public finances is because money was shoveled into private banks and brown envelopes.

HAVE YOU BEEN ASLEEP FOR THE LAST 10 YEARS?.

No, that may be the reason why paying extra tax is unpalatable but it is not the reason why we are running a deficit and now need to find new, non transaction based sources of tax revenue.

bryaner · 20-12-2011 01:06AM

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

PAID FOR ALREADY. You should check out the motor tax rates in the UK, a fraction of what we pay here and they don't toll their motorways.

And in 2008 the average annual council tax in the UK was nearly €1400 . . We are complaining about paying €100

Don't be talking complete BS. I pay for my refuse collection, I pay for my water , I paid for my septic tank. I have PAID ENOUGH! GOT IT?

Given that we don't yet have domestic water charges you must be one of the very few on a private water scheme (which, btw is also subsidised by the local authority) . .

The reason there is there's a massive hole in the public finances is because money was shoveled into private banks and brown envelopes.

HAVE YOU BEEN ASLEEP FOR THE LAST 10 YEARS?.

No, that may be the reason why paying extra tax is unpalatable but it is not the reason why we are running a deficit and now need to find new, non transaction based sources of tax revenue.

I'll be well happy to pay a property tax when I get the same services that are provided in the UK

K-9 · 20-12-2011 01:12AM

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Roads (road tax)
footpaths (none here)
street lighting (none here)
traffic lights (none here, covered by road tax anyway)
street cleaning (none here)

How do you think you get to here Liam?

djpbarry · 20-12-2011 01:14AM

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

PAID FOR ALREADY.

So you and every one else in the country have paid for all the local authority services that you're ever going to use? I doubt that.

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

You should check out the motor tax rates in the UK, a fraction of what we pay here...

Depends on the emissions band.

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

...and they don't toll their motorways.

Off the top of my head, the Humber Bridge, the Severn Bridge and the M6 are tolled.

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Nearly anywhere else in Western Europe

Whatever you say.

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Don't be talking complete BS. I pay for my refuse collection, I pay for my water , I paid for my septic tank. I have PAID ENOUGH! GOT IT?

You don't avail of any other local services?

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

The reason there is there's a massive hole in the public finances is because money was shoveled into private banks and brown envelopes.

No, there's a massive hole in the public finances because every Euro collected in tax revenue goes towards public sector wages and welfare, leaving sod all to pay for everything else.

djpbarry · 20-12-2011 01:15AM

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Roads (road tax)
footpaths (none here)
street lighting (none here)
traffic lights (none here, covered by road tax anyway)
street cleaning (none here)

Sewage ? Emergency services ? Library Services ? Waterworks ?

Parks? Playgrounds? Sportsgrounds? On-street bins? Public car parks? Street signs?

djpbarry · 20-12-2011 01:16AM

bryaner wrote: »

I'll be well happy to pay a property tax when I get the same services that are provided in the UK

How do you mean? There's nothing remarkable about the services provided by local authorities here.

Jimmy Garlic · 20-12-2011 01:25AM

hallelujajordan wrote: »

And in 2008 the average annual council tax in the UK was nearly €1400 . . We are complaining about paying €100

The ''ah shur it's only €100'' argument I see. Only €100 this year. As for the UK they get real services, refuse collection etc and other taxes (motor tax for example) are relatively small, if not a fraction of what we pay here. Will the money collected here be ringfenced for services like it is in the UK or will it be spunked all over the EU and IMF? what do you think?. When can I stop paying for my refuse collection?.

No, that may be the reason why paying extra tax is unpalatable but it is not the reason why we are running a deficit and now need to find new, non transaction based sources of tax revenue.

So progressively grind people into poverty with never ending, punitive taxation (destroying what's left of the domestic economy in the process) so that money can be gathered and most of it jizzed all over parasite banks?. That should solve the problem alright:rolleyes:

Jimmy Garlic · 20-12-2011 01:30AM

djpbarry wrote: »

So you and every one else in the country have paid for all the local authority services

YES. What part of - We pay enough tax already - don't you understand?.

Liam Byrne · 20-12-2011 01:58AM

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Roads (road tax)
footpaths (none here)
street lighting (none here)
traffic lights (none here, covered by road tax anyway)
street cleaning (none here)

Sewage ? Emergency services ? Library Services ? Waterworks ?

No (and going to have to pay, despite it being free to city-dwellers), yes (thankfully) no and Going to be paid for separately.

Besides, do you believe that each of us should only pay for the services we individually have access to . . ?

Well thanks to your shower we're already paying for shedloads of stuff unrelated to us, so the issue is where we draw the line?

Never use Quinn Insurance = pay anyway
Never use Anglo, BoI or AIB = pay anyway
Avoid using toll roads = FF contracts ensure you pay anyway

If we weren't being shafted with all FF's costly f••k ups then we mightn't mind paying OUR way......it's paying the way and pensions of corrupt f**k ups like Ahern that ensure that our money is wasted and not going near services.

hallelujajordan · 20-12-2011 09:26AM

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Well thanks to your shower we're already paying for shedloads of stuff unrelated to us, so the issue is where we draw the line?

You can draw the line wherever you want . . my line certainly includes local services. I am happy to pay for libraries even though I don't use them . . .

Liam Byrne wrote:

Never use Quinn Insurance = pay anyway

How are you paying for Quinn Insurance ?

bmaxi · 20-12-2011 12:03PM

hallelujajordan wrote: »

But there is no water charge yet and if you accept the principle of the water charge then surely its not a stretch to accept the principle of a household charge to pay for all of the other services the local authorities provide . . ?

I accept that it will happen.

djpbarry · 20-12-2011 02:00PM

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

As for the UK they get real services, refuse collection etc and other taxes (motor tax for example) are relatively small, if not a fraction of what we pay here.

I'd love to know the origin of this myth that we get fantastic public services for next-to-nothing in the UK.

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

YES. What part of - We pay enough tax already - don't you understand?.

No I don't, because the public accounts say otherwise. Bank bailout or no, Ireland is not taking in enough in taxation to pay for its public services.

bmaxi · 20-12-2011 02:44PM

djpbarry wrote: »

No I don't, because the public accounts say otherwise. Bank bailout or no, Ireland is not taking in enough in taxation to pay for its public services.

You could also argue that our public services are too expensive to provide.

Just as an example. I live in an estate of 190 houses. When I moved here the County Council was the only operator in refuse collection and their charges increased every year. Since then, three other operators have come onto the scene and prices haven't increased for the last two years, indeed the Co. Council has reduced it's rates.
This begs the question. How can the same amount of houses support four operators, with no deterioration in service, while the single operator was, to all intents and purposes, unable to survive without constant price increases?
I would suggest the reason is the County Council is just too fat and all our fees are eaten up by the black hole that is the Public Service.

hallelujajordan · 20-12-2011 03:29PM

bmaxi wrote: »

You could also argue that our public services are too expensive to provide.

Just as an example. I live in an estate of 190 houses. When I moved here the County Council was the only operator in refuse collection and their charges increased every year. Since then, three other operators have come onto the scene and prices haven't increased for the last two years, indeed the Co. Council has reduced it's rates.
This begs the question. How can the same amount of houses support four operators, with no deterioration in service, while the single operator was, to all intents and purposes, unable to survive without constant price increases?
I would suggest the reason is the County Council is just too fat and all our fees are eaten up by the black hole that is the Public Service.

Yes . . your example shows that the private sector can be more efficient than the public sector (shocker !) but there are other factors at play over the last couple of years (increase in recycling, reduction in landfill costs) that have moderated the cost of waste disposal . . it's not just about the entry of private operators . .

But in principle you are right, we could and should scrap the CPA and address the cost of the public sector more dramatically. . . We could also lower our social welfare rates in line with some of our European partners and save even more money . .

We won't (in part because we have Labour in government). . but even if we did save those costs it doesn't change the fundamental principle that local services should be paid for by a non-transaction based levy like the household / water charges . . .

TDs urging people not to pay tax - criminal negligence?

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