TDs urging people not to pay tax - criminal negligence?

darkman2

The nutty rump of usual suspects in the Dáil are advising people not to sign up for the property tax when the forms are sent out in January. The 16 or so TDs saying they will not pay and urging others not to are being criminally negligent IMO. They are suppose to be legislators and they advocate breaking the law. We had a democratic election. We voted the current Government in. Like them or not. What right do these people have (none of them have a mature, reasoned and well thought out solution to anything) to tell us we voted essentially the wrong way and they know what is best and are trying to stoke up feeling in working class areas and under pressure middle classes to have us descend away from any social cohesion we have left in dealing with this crisis?

In the context of the situation we are in I think these people are far more dangerous then any of the tax measures and cuts likely to come from the government. How anyone can believe that making a greek situation out of our country is the right way to go I cannot understand.

I think it is negligent and irresponsible for any TD to be condoning such an action as not paying a tax even though we might not like the tax (who does?). The fact there are at least 16 of these types in the Dáil has me pretty worried for the future I have to say.

What do you think?

gerryo777

darkman2 wrote: »

The nutty rump of usual suspects in the Dáil are advising people not to sign up for the property tax when the forms are sent out in January. The 16 or so TDs saying they will not pay and urging others not to are being criminally negligent IMO. They are suppose to be legislators and they advocate breaking the law. We had a democratic election. We voted the current Government in. Like them or not. What right do these people have (none of them have a mature, reasoned and well thought out solution to anything) to tell us we voted essentially the wrong way and they know what is best and are trying to stoke up feeling in working class areas and under pressure middle classes to have us descend away from any social cohesion we have left in dealing with this crisis?

In the context of the situation we are in I think these people are far more dangerous then any of the tax measures and cuts likely to come from the government. How anyone can believe that making a greek situation out of our country is the right way to go I cannot understand.

I think it is negligent and irresponsible for any TD to be condoning such an action as not paying a tax even though we might not like the tax (who does?). The fact there are at least 16 of these types in the Dáil has me pretty worried for the future I have to say.

What do you think?

With regard to the Greek situation, I think you'll find that they had their debts written down by 40-50% and one of the reasons was a campaign of civil disorder.
Ireland, on the other hand lies down and does what merkozy tells it to do while waiting for some crumbs to be thrown from the table!

darkman2

gerryo777 wrote: »

With regard to the Greek situation, I think you'll find that they had their debts written down by 40-50% and one of the reasons was a campaign of civil disorder.
Ireland, on the other hand lies down and does what merkozy tells it to do while waiting for some crumbs to be thrown from the table!

That won't make any difference to Greece (whose debt is unsustainable after any write down) so, no, I don't accept your argument. Greece is beyond bankrupt. Greece will never be able to borrow a cent from the markets ever again - mark my words. They will forever be on EU/IMF life support. Is that the future you want for Ireland?

Zorbas

The TDs dont seem to realise that Ireland is now a passive country and the compliant population will not protest about anything. This is especially so if the protest has the added risk of fines or prison. The government have nothing to worry about, they know that numerous and better reasons for protest have passed without a whimper so why would people chose this issue when they have been more adversely affected by all sorts of cuts, job losses etc.

gerryo777

darkman2 wrote: »

That won't make any difference to Greece (whose debt is unsustainable after any write down) so, no, I don't accept your argument. Greece is beyond bankrupt. Greece will never be able to borrow a cent from the markets ever again - mark my words. They will forever be on EU/IMF life support. Is that the future you want for Ireland?

When the euro zone goes back into recession early next year, which it will and our economy continues to contract we will have no option but to default on our debts. In this way we won't be any better than Greece. Enda & co need to stand up for our country and fight our corner, do some saber rattling if you will. If we, the people of Ireland have to start making some serious noise by protesting and/or refusing to pay these taxes (which have only been put in place to please merkozy and the IMF) to spur our government into action, so be it.....

darkman2

gerryo777 wrote: »

When the euro zone goes back into recession early next year, which it will and our economy continues to contract we will have no option but to default on our debts. In this way we won't be any better than Greece. Enda & co need to stand up for our country and fight our corner, do some saber rattling if you will. If we, the people of Ireland have to start making some serious noise by protesting and/or refusing to pay these taxes (which have only been put in place to please merkozy and the IMF) to spur our government into action, so be it.....

The people of Ireland are right to be getting on with it like they have been doing. I know some people in this country live in a world of make believe and think we could do x,y and z and there are no consequences.

The ECB/IMF are propping this country up by lending us money no one else will give to us. They have every right to tell us what to do. I don't understand why people are complaining. You are not silly enough to believe you inhabit a sovereign country are you?

Also after we default would you please tell me who is going to lend money to us after we are ejected from the Euro? The people who say default can never answer that question because the answer is too disasterous to contemplate or admit.

gerryo777

darkman2 wrote: »

The people of Ireland are right to be getting on with it like they have been doing. I know some people in this country live in a world of make believe and think we could do x,y and z and there are no consequences.

The ECB/IMF are propping this country up by lending us money no one else will give to us. They have every right to tell us what to do. I don't understand why people are complaining. You are not silly enough to believe you inhabit a sovereign country are you?

Also after we default would you please tell me who is going to lend money to us after we are ejected from the Euro? The people who say default can never answer that question because the answer is too disasterous to contemplate or admit.

I didn't say that I agree with us defaulting, I said that if we continue along the path we're on, it's going to happen!
The thing is we are not doing x,y & z, we're just hoping someone feels sorry for us and throws a few more crumbs, we need to be more pro-active in our dealings with Europe.
The ECB/IMF are loaning us money to give to the german and french bondholders, god forbid if we upset the unsecured secondary bondholders in anglo for example.
We legally cannot be ejected from the euro.

cnoon

darkman2 wrote: »

The nutty rump of usual suspects in the Dáil are advising people not to sign up for the property tax when the forms are sent out in January. The 16 or so TDs saying they will not pay and urging others not to are being criminally negligent IMO. They are suppose to be legislators and they advocate breaking the law. We had a democratic election. We voted the current Government in. Like them or not. What right do these people have (none of them have a mature, reasoned and well thought out solution to anything) to tell us we voted essentially the wrong way and they know what is best and are trying to stoke up feeling in working class areas and under pressure middle classes to have us descend away from any social cohesion we have left in dealing with this crisis?

In the context of the situation we are in I think these people are far more dangerous then any of the tax measures and cuts likely to come from the government. How anyone can believe that making a greek situation out of our country is the right way to go I cannot understand.

I think it is negligent and irresponsible for any TD to be condoning such an action as not paying a tax even though we might not like the tax (who does?). The fact there are at least 16 of these types in the Dáil has me pretty worried for the future I have to say.

What do you think?

Should have been worried years ago when the banks were allowed run a muc pity there's only 16 of them.Wonder if you"ll be saying the same thing in a few years when the tax is €500 or more

Jimmy Garlic

It is legitimate protest against unjust taxation. It is refreshing to see 16 TDs with the backbone to come out against it. FG said there would be no property tax before the election, people voted for them with that and other promises they made in mind..

Fine Gael has also ruled out a property tax on primary private residences, despite the expectations of our international financiers that one would be introduced. However, those with second homes could expect to pay €300 a year under Fine Gael and €500 under Labour (would a coalition of the two settle for something in between?).

http://www.taxation.ie/2011/02/analysis-of-fine-gael-labour-tax-proposals/

They are refusing to represent the people.

Liam Byrne

It'd be just like them to pursue criminal negligence on this while ignoring the criminal negligence that got us here.

Manach

Democracy does not automatically mean right. Ill though out laws are pased, and can be opposed : either via the courts or more direct action such as refusal to pay for unenumerated and uncosted services. That is the hallmark of a free people.

Icepick

Manach wrote: »

or more direct action such as refusal to pay for unenumerated and uncosted services. That is the hallmark of a free people.

No, that's the hallmark of a lawless society.

K-9

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

It is legitimate protest against unjust taxation. It is refreshing to see 16 TDs with the backbone to come out against it. FG said there would be no property tax before the election, people voted for them with that and other promises they made in mind..



http://www.taxation.ie/2011/02/analysis-of-fine-gael-labour-tax-proposals/

They are refusing to represent the people.

They passed the buck, they said it would be up to councils to bring it in. They definitely had it as a policy, just not straight up about it.

hallelujajordan

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

It is legitimate protest against unjust taxation. It is refreshing to see 16 TDs with the backbone to come out against it. FG said there would be no property tax before the election, people voted for them with that and other promises they made in mind..



http://www.taxation.ie/2011/02/analysis-of-fine-gael-labour-tax-proposals/

They are refusing to represent the people.

Why is it an 'unjust taxation' . . most modern society's have some form of local taxation to fund local services . . What the government are asking us to pay as a tax on our property is a very small amount of money, considering that we pay E160 pa on our TV licence. .

I just don't get the 'unjust' argument.

Liam Byrne

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

It is legitimate protest against unjust taxation. It is refreshing to see 16 TDs with the backbone to come out against it. FG said there would be no property tax before the election, people voted for them with that and other promises they made in mind..



http://www.taxation.ie/2011/02/analysis-of-fine-gael-labour-tax-proposals/

They are refusing to represent the people.

Why is it an 'unjust taxation' . . most modern society's have some form of local taxation to fund local services . . What the government are asking us to pay as a tax on our property is a very small amount of money, considering that we pay E160 pa on our TV licence. .

I just don't get the 'unjust' argument.

People have already paid stamp duty but your shower blew it on the equivalent of coke & hookers - why should people pay twice just because of FF's quangos, corruption, incompetence and appointment of "friends" of Ahern who weren't capable of doing the jobs they were paid fortunes for ?

Lenihan wasted what we'd paid due to being an incompetent idiot, and you want us to pay again ?

Am Chile

darkman2 wrote: »

The nutty rump of usual suspects in the Dáil are advising people not to sign up for the property tax when the forms are sent out in January. The 16 or so TDs saying they will not pay and urging others not to are being criminally negligent IMO. They are suppose to be legislators and they advocate breaking the law. We had a democratic election. We voted the current Government in. Like them or not. What right do these people have (none of them have a mature, reasoned and well thought out solution to anything) to tell us we voted essentially the wrong way and they know what is best and are trying to stoke up feeling in working class areas and under pressure middle classes to have us descend away from any social cohesion we have left in dealing with this crisis?

In the context of the situation we are in I think these people are far more dangerous then any of the tax measures and cuts likely to come from the government. How anyone can believe that making a greek situation out of our country is the right way to go I cannot understand.

I think it is negligent and irresponsible for any TD to be condoning such an action as not paying a tax even though we might not like the tax (who does?). The fact there are at least 16 of these types in the Dáil has me pretty worried for the future I have to say.

What do you think?

There will always be comformists like you who will accept any status quo, there are others who will not and I praise them, for those who say breaking the law, if you re saying its Illegal to boycott and refuse to pay the household charge, you re saying its Illegal to own your own private property, like the poll tax, laws that do not serve the Interests of the vast Majority will be broken whether you like it or not.

But since you have tha view the status quo should always be upheld, do you think Rossa Parks was wrong when she broke the law by refusing to give up her seat? do you think those who broke the law by refusing to pay the poll tax were wrong? What about the protesters in Cairo do you they wrong to break the law, when they refused to leave the square?
What about The masses who take the streets in Libya, Syria or currently in Russia all broke the law – are you suggesting they should be all imprisoned? South Africa, the former Soviet Union, civil rights movements in the US, N.Ireland.

Grow up – if you want to pay the charge off you go leave the rest of us to fight being.

[MOD]Try to avoid saying things like "grow up". It doesn't really add anything to discussion.[/MOD]

K-9

Am Chile wrote: »

There will always be comformists like you who will accept any status quo, there are others who will not and I praise them, for those who say breaking the law, if you re saying its Illegal to boycott and refuse to pay the household charge, you re saying its Illegal to own your own private property, like the poll tax, laws that do not serve the Interests of the vast Majority will be broken whether you like it or not.

But since you have tha view the status quo should always be upheld, do you think Rossa Parks was wrong when she broke the law by refusing to give up her seat? do you think those who broke the law by refusing to pay the poll tax were wrong? What about the protesters in Cairo do you they wrong to break the law, when they refused to leave the square?
What about The masses who take the streets in Libya, Syria or currently in Russia all broke the law – are you suggesting they should be all imprisoned? South Africa, the former Soviet Union, civil rights movements in the US, N.Ireland.

Grow up – if you want to pay the charge off you go leave the rest of us to fight being.

Ah now, lets not go over board with the comparisons!

Just a question, if they put up income tax instead of going the property tax route would you be so annoyed? Is it the tax on your plot of land thing?

Am Chile

K-9 wrote: »

Ah now, lets not go over board with the comparisons!

Just a question, if they put up income tax instead of going the property tax route would you be so annoyed? Is it the tax on your plot of land thing?

Il be honest even though I might be annoyed if they raised Income tax, Id much rather that be done, then any property tax be Introduced.

James ngt

Am Chile wrote: »

Il be honest even though I might be annoyed if they raised Income tax, Id much rather that be done, then any property tax be Introduced.

6 of one half dozen of the other really. Spending 16 million more than we make. Taxes inevitable, hard to raise Income tax though with the universal charge so recent and high.

K-9

Am Chile wrote: »

Il be honest even though I might be annoyed if they raised Income tax, Id much rather that be done, then any property tax be Introduced.

Yeah, its just the property and the plot part that annoys you.

I'd prefer if they withheld the pretence than income taxes aren't rising. They cut credits 2 years ago and kept them stable since so it has increased. The idea is to keep tax rises away from payroll taxes and let people pay out of their pocket. Keeps big business happy I suppose.

Jimmy Garlic

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Why is it an 'unjust taxation' . . most modern society's have some form of local taxation to fund local services . . What the government are asking us to pay as a tax on our property is a very small amount of money, considering that we pay E160 pa on our TV licence. .

I just don't get the 'unjust' argument.

what services are you talking about?.

It is very naive to assume that it will go towards local services. In any case, I pay for my services already. Refuse, private water scheme, septic tank and if my house went up in smoke I would have to pay a call out charge.

Most people pay for their refuse and water charges are coming soon.

Am Chile

water charges are coming soon.

Remains to be seen how people will react and if they actually accept water charges, a little reminder of how peoples reaction to water charges last time around.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYmz7oXPbWU

wonderfulname

Am Chile wrote: »

But since you have tha view the status quo should always be upheld...

Surely the ones moving to uphold the status quo are those against the tax, given it is a change and all that. There is a teeny bit of a difference between a placeholder tax and actual civil rights, if you genuinely think you can compare our situation to Libya's or the former soviet union I have to say I'm gobsmacked.

hallelujajordan

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

what services are you talking about?.

It is very naive to assume that it will go towards local services. In any case, I pay for my services already. Refuse, private water scheme, septic tank and if my house went up in smoke I would have to pay a call out charge.

Most people pay for their refuse and water charges are coming soon.

Who pays to keep the streetlights on ? Who pays to fill the potholes on the road ? Who pays to keep the libraries open ? Who pays the gritters that keep our roads clear in the winter . .

And do you really think the hundred Euro or so call out charge pays for the fire service ?

Liam Byrne wrote: »

People have already paid stamp duty but your shower blew it on the equivalent of coke & hookers - why should people pay twice just because of FF's quangos, corruption, incompetence and appointment of "friends" of Ahern who weren't capable of doing the jobs they were paid fortunes for ?

Lenihan wasted what we'd paid due to being an incompetent idiot, and you want us to pay again ?

That is like saying you've already paid VRT on your car so why should you pay road tax.. The purpose of stamp duty was not to fund local government and we should be able to learn from the last couple of years that we need a broader tax net that is less transaction-based.

Liam Byrne

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

what services are you talking about?.

It is very naive to assume that it will go towards local services. In any case, I pay for my services already. Refuse, private water scheme, septic tank and if my house went up in smoke I would have to pay a call out charge.

Most people pay for their refuse and water charges are coming soon.

Who pays to keep the streetlights on ? Who pays to fill the potholes on the road ? Who pays to keep the libraries open ? Who pays the gritters that keep our roads clear in the winter . .

And do you really think the hundred Euro or so call out charge pays for the fire service ?

Liam Byrne wrote: »

People have already paid stamp duty but your shower blew it on the equivalent of coke & hookers - why should people pay twice just because of FF's quangos, corruption, incompetence and appointment of "friends" of Ahern who weren't capable of doing the jobs they were paid fortunes for ?

Lenihan wasted what we'd paid due to being an incompetent idiot, and you want us to pay again ?

That is like saying you've already paid VRT on your car so why should you pay road tax.. The purpose of stamp duty was not to fund local government and we should be able to learn from the last couple of years that we need a broader tax net that is less transaction-based.

Don't get me started on the con-job that is VRT! The EU bans Excise Duty on cars and the Irish Government manufacture an equivalent out of thin air to break the spirit of the law!

bmaxi

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Who pays to keep the streetlights on ? Who pays to fill the potholes on the road ? Who pays to keep the libraries open ? Who pays the gritters that keep our roads clear in the winter . .

And do you really think the hundred Euro or so call out charge pays for the fire service ?




That is like saying you've already paid VRT on your car so why should you pay road tax.. The purpose of stamp duty was not to fund local government and we should be able to learn from the last couple of years that we need a broader tax net that is less transaction-based.

Well, thanks to FF again, I live in a housing estate which has a management company, so I pay for street lighting and to fix potholes there.
You don't pay road tax because you own a car, you pay it to use it on the public highway. This tax is like saying you should pay VRT on your car every year.

hallelujajordan

bmaxi wrote: »

Well, thanks to FF again, I live in a housing estate which has a management company, so I pay for street lighting and to fix potholes there.
You don't pay road tax because you own a car, you pay it to use it on the public highway. This tax is like saying you should pay VRT on your car every year.

Fianna Fail get blamed for a lot, some of it rightly, but this takes the biscuit. Fianna Fail did not make you pay over the odds for a house in a housing estate with a management company. That was your choice.
And, it may surprise you to realise that there is a world outside your estate that is not maintained by your management company and whose lights, potholes etc have to be paid for by someone.

Plus, your analogy is nonsense. . you pay stamp duty on your primary purchase, the property (or VRT on the car) . . then you pay an additional tax on the services associated with living in the area (or, by comparison driving the car)

Kosseegan

bmaxi wrote: »

Well, thanks to FF again, I live in a housing estate which has a management company, so I pay for street lighting and to fix potholes there.
You don't pay road tax because you own a car, you pay it to use it on the public highway. This tax is like saying you should pay VRT on your car every year.

The reason housing estates have management companies is that the Local authorities insisted on it when granting planning permission. Fianna Fail do not control any local authorities and haven't done for years.

djpbarry

Liam Byrne wrote: »

People have already paid stamp duty...

Ignoring for a moment the fact that stamp duty was effectively subsidising tax on income, there is absolutely no way that stamp duty is going to cover the cost of providing local services. Are people aware that here in the UK, for example, council tax on a property can be well over £1,000 per year? And that still doesn’t cover everything.

Incidentally, there was quite a good editorial on this in today's Times.

bmaxi

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Fianna Fail get blamed for a lot, some of it rightly, but this takes the biscuit. Fianna Fail did not make you pay over the odds for a house in a housing estate with a management company. That was your choice.
And, it may surprise you to realise that there is a world outside your estate that is not maintained by your management company and whose lights, potholes etc have to be paid for by someone.

Plus, your analogy is nonsense. . you pay stamp duty on your primary purchase, the property (or VRT on the car) . . then you pay an additional tax on the services associated with living in the area (or, by comparison driving the car)

I'm actually referring to the well publicised decision, for populist reasons, of FF, to starve Local Authorities of the funding necessary to provide services, this has led directly to the introduction of Management Companies. You obviously were not in the market for a home as it was virtually impossible to buy a house in an estate that didn't have a Management Company.

As far as I'm concerned, I won't get any services for this tax. I pay for refuse removal and it is proposed I pay for water. As I've already stated the local authority don't provide street lighting or road maintenance, if there are problems with water mains or sewerage it's down to us to sort it, so basically this tax is due just by virtue of the fact that I chose to provide my family with somewhere to live. I could, of course, have looked for Local Authority housing but due to lack of funding, that wasn't really an option either.

hallelujajordan

bmaxi wrote: »

I'm actually referring to the well publicised decision, for populist reasons, of FF, to starve Local Authorities of the funding necessary to provide services, this has led directly to the introduction of Management Companies. You obviously were not in the market for a home as it was virtually impossible to buy a house in an estate that didn't have a Management Company.

But yet, when the current government try to reverse this situation by putting in place a tax that will fund local government and remove some of this management company need you object ? Go figure !

bmaxi wrote:

As far as I'm concerned, I won't get any services for this tax. I pay for refuse removal and it is proposed I pay for water. As I've already stated the local authority don't provide street lighting or road maintenance, if there are problems with water mains or sewerage it's down to us to sort it, so basically this tax is due just by virtue of the fact that I chose to provide my family with somewhere to live. I could, of course, have looked for Local Authority housing but due to lack of funding, that wasn't really an option either.

So you never leave your estate then ??

How do you think the water gets to the gates of your estate and who is responsible for managing leaks etc outside ? And what happens to the sewage when it gets to the gates of your estate . .

You are using lots of local authority services whether you chose to accept it or not. .

Chucky the tree

gerryo777 wrote: »

With regard to the Greek situation, I think you'll find that they had their debts written down by 40-50% and one of the reasons was a campaign of civil disorder.
Ireland, on the other hand lies down and does what merkozy tells it to do while waiting for some crumbs to be thrown from the table!

I never heard about this. I'd love to read about it if you have links etc to where ECB/EU said one of the reason was the campaign of civil disorder.

mikom

TDs urging people to wear condoms - criminal negligence?

TDs urging women to vote - criminal negligence?

TDs urging women to continue working in the civil service once they get married - criminal negligence?

TDs urging homosexuals to show their love in a physical way - criminal negligence?

bmaxi

hallelujajordan wrote: »

But yet, when the current government try to reverse this situation by putting in place a tax that will fund local government and remove some of this management company need you object ? Go figure !



So you never leave your estate then ??

How do you think the water gets to the gates of your estate and who is responsible for managing leaks etc outside ? And what happens to the sewage when it gets to the gates of your estate . .

You are using lots of local authority services whether you chose to accept it or not. .

It won't remove the Management Company from my estate. A water charge is proposed so I would expect that to cover repairs to the water and sewage systems, what other reason could it be for?
The fact remains, all these systems were in place and accepted before FF went on their orgy of vote buying, what was not in place was a tax on the family home.

Jimmy Garlic

mikom wrote: »

TDs urging people to wear condoms - criminal negligence?

TDs urging women to vote - criminal negligence?

TDs urging women to continue working in the civil service once they get married - criminal negligence?

TDs urging homosexuals to show their love in a physical way - criminal negligence?

Blasphemy is still illegal in this backward sh**hole so it doesn't surprise me that oppsition to punitive taxation would surely be deemed by statist fruitcakes to be ''criminal negligence''.

Icepick

mikom wrote: »

TDs urging people to wear condoms - criminal negligence?

TDs urging women to vote - criminal negligence?

TDs urging women to continue working in the civil service once they get married - criminal negligence?

TDs urging homosexuals to show their love in a physical way - criminal negligence?

€100 tax on property is a human rights issue now?

Jimmy Garlic

Icepick wrote: »

€100 tax on property is a human rights issue now?

Get back to us when you are paying €1000 because €100 is just a foot in the door. Why should people have to pay the government to live in a dwelling that they already paid/pay for.. For some services that don't exist? is that the reason why people should pay?. In case you haven't noticed most everything in this country is sh1t, the rest we pay for already.

gerryo777

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I never heard about this. I'd love to read about it if you have links etc to where ECB/EU said one of the reason was the campaign of civil disorder.

They're hardly going to put out a statement to that effect are they??

tayto lover

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Why is it an 'unjust taxation' . . most modern society's have some form of local taxation to fund local services . . What the government are asking us to pay as a tax on our property is a very small amount of money, considering that we pay E160 pa on our TV licence. .

I just don't get the 'unjust' argument.

You will when it's 500e in a year or two.

Chucky the tree

gerryo777 wrote: »

They're hardly going to put out a statement to that effect are they??

Oh so you've no idea if that had any influence then.

wonderfulname

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Get back to us when you are paying €1000 because €100 is just a foot in the door. Why should people have to pay the government to live in a dwelling that they already paid/pay for.. For some services that don't exist? is that the reason why people should pay?. In case you haven't noticed most everything in this country is sh1t, the rest we pay for already.

Okay, so a thousand euro is a human rights issue... just reflect for a minute on how relatively good this country must be for you to be able to even imply that.

Xenophile

Watch how quickly these guys pay up when their salary is witheld for not having a Tax Clearance Cert. I wonder do RTE need these certs before they can pay their contributors.

djpbarry

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Why should people have to pay the government to live in a dwelling that they already paid/pay for.. For some services that don't exist?

Roads, footpaths, street lighting, traffic lights, street cleaning, etc. don't exist?

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

In case you haven't noticed most everything in this country is sh1t...

Relative to what?

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

...the rest we pay for already.

No you don't. That's why there's a massive hole in the public finances.

Liam Byrne

Roads (road tax)
footpaths (none here)
street lighting (none here)
traffic lights (none here, covered by road tax anyway)
street cleaning (none here)

hallelujajordan

bmaxi wrote: »

It won't remove the Management Company from my estate. A water charge is proposed so I would expect that to cover repairs to the water and sewage systems, what other reason could it be for?
The fact remains, all these systems were in place and accepted before FF went on their orgy of vote buying, what was not in place was a tax on the family home.

But there is no water charge yet and if you accept the principle of the water charge then surely its not a stretch to accept the principle of a household charge to pay for all of the other services the local authorities provide . . ?

tayto lover wrote: »

You will when it's 500e in a year or two.

No I won't . . I think it should be higher than €100 and i think it is a much fairer (and long term, more sustainable) way to raise tax revenue than most of our other transaction based taxes.

hallelujajordan

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Roads (road tax)
footpaths (none here)
street lighting (none here)
traffic lights (none here, covered by road tax anyway)
street cleaning (none here)

Sewage ? Emergency services ? Library Services ? Waterworks ?

Besides, do you believe that each of us should only pay for the services we individually have access to . . ?

Jimmy Garlic

djpbarry wrote: »

Roads, footpaths, street lighting, traffic lights, street cleaning, etc. don't exist?

PAID FOR ALREADY. You should check out the motor tax rates in the UK, a fraction of what we pay here and they don't toll their motorways.

Relative to what?

Nearly anywhere else in Western Europe

No you don't. That's why there's a massive hole in the public finances.

Don't be talking complete BS. I pay for my refuse collection, I pay for my water , I paid for my septic tank. I have PAID ENOUGH! GOT IT?

The reason there is there's a massive hole in the public finances is because money was shoveled into private banks and brown envelopes.

HAVE YOU BEEN ASLEEP FOR THE LAST 10 YEARS?.

hallelujajordan

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

PAID FOR ALREADY. You should check out the motor tax rates in the UK, a fraction of what we pay here and they don't toll their motorways.

And in 2008 the average annual council tax in the UK was nearly €1400 . . We are complaining about paying €100

Don't be talking complete BS. I pay for my refuse collection, I pay for my water , I paid for my septic tank. I have PAID ENOUGH! GOT IT?

Given that we don't yet have domestic water charges you must be one of the very few on a private water scheme (which, btw is also subsidised by the local authority) . .

The reason there is there's a massive hole in the public finances is because money was shoveled into private banks and brown envelopes.

HAVE YOU BEEN ASLEEP FOR THE LAST 10 YEARS?.

No, that may be the reason why paying extra tax is unpalatable but it is not the reason why we are running a deficit and now need to find new, non transaction based sources of tax revenue.

bryaner

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

PAID FOR ALREADY. You should check out the motor tax rates in the UK, a fraction of what we pay here and they don't toll their motorways.

And in 2008 the average annual council tax in the UK was nearly €1400 . . We are complaining about paying €100

Don't be talking complete BS. I pay for my refuse collection, I pay for my water , I paid for my septic tank. I have PAID ENOUGH! GOT IT?

Given that we don't yet have domestic water charges you must be one of the very few on a private water scheme (which, btw is also subsidised by the local authority) . .

The reason there is there's a massive hole in the public finances is because money was shoveled into private banks and brown envelopes.

HAVE YOU BEEN ASLEEP FOR THE LAST 10 YEARS?.

No, that may be the reason why paying extra tax is unpalatable but it is not the reason why we are running a deficit and now need to find new, non transaction based sources of tax revenue.

I'll be well happy to pay a property tax when I get the same services that are provided in the UK

K-9

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Roads (road tax)
footpaths (none here)
street lighting (none here)
traffic lights (none here, covered by road tax anyway)
street cleaning (none here)

How do you think you get to here Liam?

djpbarry

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

PAID FOR ALREADY.

So you and every one else in the country have paid for all the local authority services that you're ever going to use? I doubt that.

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

You should check out the motor tax rates in the UK, a fraction of what we pay here...

Depends on the emissions band.

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

...and they don't toll their motorways.

Off the top of my head, the Humber Bridge, the Severn Bridge and the M6 are tolled.

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Nearly anywhere else in Western Europe

Whatever you say.

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Don't be talking complete BS. I pay for my refuse collection, I pay for my water , I paid for my septic tank. I have PAID ENOUGH! GOT IT?

You don't avail of any other local services?

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

The reason there is there's a massive hole in the public finances is because money was shoveled into private banks and brown envelopes.

No, there's a massive hole in the public finances because every Euro collected in tax revenue goes towards public sector wages and welfare, leaving sod all to pay for everything else.