Guards and their rights

LighterGuy · 16-12-2011 05:49AM

TheZohan wrote: »

You do realise anything the cops find in an illegal search cannot be submitted in court? Yeah?

Problem is, who is to say it was illegal.
Sure you could. But who is likely to be believed. Mister Gardai man who is the law ... or common person who had something illegal is their pockets.

Pdfile · 16-12-2011 07:40AM

dorgasm wrote: »

Tonight my friend was stopped by a guard for no reason. He was simply walking down the road to home and they pulled the squad car up to him and proceeded to interrogate him.

First of all, the guard slipped his hand straight into his pocket, without warning or permission, and tried to pull his wallet out, is this allowed? When my friend protested, the guard replied "I'll do whatever the fuck I have the right to do". Now I'm not saying the guard is NOT allowed do this, to be honest I have no idea! In the end, my friend was let go as he was not up to no good and didn't have anything dodgy on him, no explanation from the guards either.

My initial thought, perhaps due to the stuff you'd hear on American TV shows about people and their rights, would be that this sort of random interrogation and searching a person's pocket would be against the law.

So I'm just wondering was the guard within his rights to do what he did? And also, do you think we have false assumptions about what our rights really are?

this happens, just make sure you always stay calm cool and collected because at the end of the day their in uniform, you're not.

if anything Worse had of happened and you took him to court not only is it you're word against his BUT: 1) he has a witness who is also a gaurd, 2) judges without admitting it are bias, even a jury would be on the basis that you at the height of you're Whiter then white status in society are below them, simply because they are keepers of the peace, their accounts perceived to be more accurate etc. 3) claims against unruly gaurds normally fall on deaf ears, and this is annoying, should you ever lose the head about it you're giving away the little face you had and the ball is in their court.

Odds are against you're friend op by default...

seanybiker · 16-12-2011 07:47AM

Afaik as long as they have "reason to believe" then they can search a person.
Your mate met a fella on a power trip

MagicSean · 16-12-2011 08:13AM

minidazzler wrote: »

AFAIK, they have to give a reason for the search or ask you. Regardless, I would refuse, I like to make **** awkward for people who think they can go through my pockets,

They don't have to give a reason and you can't legally refuse if they tell you they are searching you under a statutory power. In the ops case, as he tells it, this search would only be lawful if the Garda believed that the person had something in his pocket such as a weapon. But it's a very stupid Garda that puts his hand in someone's pocket like that. That's just asking for a needle injury.

ArseBook wrote: »

I'd advise anyone, even when you're buying property to have a good look at what solicitors are available to you.

The law is only as good as your ethics, your solicitor and the constitution. I'd suggest everyone read the constitution.

The police force in this country has historically been made up of morons who passed a tie-your-shoelace aptidude test and love the ego trip. The only advantage they have over you is authority which is quickly taken away if you have a decent solicitor.

I reckon I'm probably as educated and as intelligent as you, if not more so, so does that mean you're a moron too?

Sindri wrote: »

It wasn't wrongful arrest, they had no grounds to arrest the man or the man he was mistaken for but they decided to just get the man he was mistaken for off the street and hold him over night. They didn't ask questions it was just simply to lock him up for the night. The man protested and tried to clarify his identity but they were having none of it. They had no grounds for an arrest in the first place, to arrest the real man, so that's why they lost their jobs.

This is either incredibly simplified or made up. Your reference to "real man" makes me think your a freeman talking ****e. By "lost their jobs" you probably mean " finished their shift."

mconigol · 16-12-2011 08:38AM

dorgasm wrote: »

Tonight my friend was stopped by a guard for no reason. He was simply walking down the road to home and they pulled the squad car up to him and proceeded to interrogate him.

First of all, the guard slipped his hand straight into his pocket, without warning or permission, and tried to pull his wallet out, is this allowed? When my friend protested, the guard replied "I'll do whatever the fuck I have the right to do". Now I'm not saying the guard is NOT allowed do this, to be honest I have no idea! In the end, my friend was let go as he was not up to no good and didn't have anything dodgy on him, no explanation from the guards either.

My initial thought, perhaps due to the stuff you'd hear on American TV shows about people and their rights, would be that this sort of random interrogation and searching a person's pocket would be against the law.

So I'm just wondering was the guard within his rights to do what he did? And also, do you think we have false assumptions about what our rights really are?

He was probably just looking for coppers...

Sindri · 16-12-2011 08:54AM

MagicSean wrote: »

This is either incredibly simplified or made up. Your reference to "real man" makes me think your a freeman talking ****e. By "lost their jobs" you probably mean " finished their shift."

What's with the cynicism?

I'll go slow. Just for you.;)

There was a man. He looked like another man. The police saw this man and mistook him for the other man. They took him in to the station and held him over night in a cell. The police had no grounds for this arrest in the first place (now listen carefully, the next part is paramount;)) they just intended to take the other man of the streets:eek:.

They were abusing their powers in the first place just taking the man in for no reason yet they arrested the wrong man. When he protested and said they were mistaken they didn't care as they had arrested him illegally and all the wanted to do is leave him in the cell for the night.

It might help you understand better if you knew that this did not occur in Dublin.

Then they lost their jobs.

If your face is still like this afterwards

then I can't help you.

MagicSean · 16-12-2011 08:57AM

Sindri wrote: »

What's with the cynicism?

I'll go slow. Just for you.;)

There was a man. He looked like another man. The police saw this man and mistook him for the other man. They took him in to the station and held him over night in a cell. The police had no grounds for this arrest in the first place (now listen carefully, the next part is paramount;)) they just intended to take the other man of the streets:eek:.

They were abusing their powers in the first place just taking the man in for no reason yet they arrested the wrong man. When he protested and said they were mistaken they didn't care as they had arrested him illegally and all the wanted to do is leave him in the cell for the night.

It might help you understand better if you knew that this did not occur in Dublin.

Then they lost their jobs.

If your face is still like this afterwards then I can't help you.

How can you go slow on an Internet forum?

Sindri · 16-12-2011 09:07AM

MagicSean wrote: »

How can you go slow on an Internet forum?

Ever heard of an expression?

It means I will make sure you can comprehend what it is I am saying. If that eluded you, I can't help you.

Feisar · 16-12-2011 09:18AM

Funny enough I was stopped by the PSNI last night on the way home from the gym (driving).

Asked where I was headed asked for ID, confirm DOB, how long have you been in Belfast (I'm from the Republic), where you heading?

No bother, answered the questions and he said head on and safe home.

The gentleman was nicely spoken and courteous.

I've no problem with the Police randomly asking basic details.

Duggy747 · 16-12-2011 10:28AM

Tell your mate to make a complaint, not that it would actually do a thing, but it would add up on him if he carried on with that craìc.

Nothing worse than a power tripping Garda, especially one who'll think they can get away with how they treat people.

About 3 years ago I had one Garda pull me over when I was walking home one night. He started accusing me of being at a scene when Gardaì jackets were stolen from the boot of their car (They had gone into a pub and left the boot open, everything got maced) and that I was laughing directly at him on that night

I told him to go check the cameras all he want, that I wasn't near the pub at all on said night. He then says:

"Right, we're watching you. Go home like a good little boy now!"

Fùckin' twerp was my age :mad:

Sky King · 16-12-2011 10:39AM

Like any job really. A lot of sound guys, a lot of dicks.

And it's nearly worth learning to speak fluent Irish just so you can bust their nut.

Or failing that know your exact rights. For example, a garde can't just 'bring you down to the station' you have to go willingly or he has to arrest you, and if he arrests you, he has to tell you why you are being arrested.

MagicSean · 16-12-2011 11:12AM

Sindri wrote: »

Ever heard of an expression?

It means I will make sure you can comprehend what it is I am saying. If that eluded you, I can't help you.

You can type as slow as you want. I'll still read it the same speed. Its a stupid insult to use on the Internet.

I still reckon your story is bull**** though.

Sindri · 16-12-2011 11:33AM

MagicSean wrote: »

You can type as slow as you want. I'll still read it the same speed. Its a stupid insult to use on the Internet.

I still reckon your story is bull**** though.

Ah internet arguing. Where the ego rules and one can sate its thirst with impunity without the niceties of society.

It wasn't an insult. Why would you think that? There no point discussing this if that's how you view it. Anyway it's a well known expression that can be used anywhere, just because it was used against you doesn't subtract from it's validity.

You responses are very aggressive, the first one was extremely cynical for whatever reason I don't why. I mean if I told you this in person would you have responded the way you did? What vested interest do you have in disproving me.

Whatever issues you had with the story you could have outlined them and I would have been happy to answer them.

Anyway it doesn't matter if you don't believe the story, for all of that it doesn't stop it from being true.

mattser · 16-12-2011 11:41AM

Good nights sleep badly needed

Conall Cernach · 16-12-2011 11:49AM

Feisar wrote: »

Funny enough I was stopped by the PSNI last night on the way home from the gym (driving).

Asked where I was headed asked for ID, confirm DOB, how long have you been in Belfast (I'm from the Republic), where you heading?

No bother, answered the questions and he said head on and safe home.

The gentleman was nicely spoken and courteous.

I've no problem with the Police randomly asking basic details.

I was stopped in a car by those same "gentlemen". They took us all out of the car and did the usual standing search, where you going? etc and searched the car. When we got back into the car I noticed my phone was missing. They have the power to seize phones etc. but they must at least give you notice that they are doing so. These boys are crooks plain and simple.

I have also heard anecdotal reports of Guards stopping young fellas (teens and younger) in Dublin and taking their phones off them for no reason.

Jimmy Garlic · 16-12-2011 12:05PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hx6s_hpI8w

http://www.prlog.org/10599313-pig-farm.jpg

UnknownSpecies · 16-12-2011 01:11PM

I've noticed a few people suggesting my friend was annoyed at being randomly searched but he wasn't. He had no problem answering questions and all that but it's the fact that the guard stuck his hand in his pocket without permission and then acted like a dick when he protested, that's what he was annoyed about.

MagicSean · 16-12-2011 04:01PM

Sindri wrote: »

Ah internet arguing. Where the ego rules and one can sate its thirst with impunity without the niceties of society.

It wasn't an insult. Why would you think that? There no point discussing this if that's how you view it. Anyway it's a well known expression that can be used anywhere, just because it was used against you doesn't subtract from it's validity.

You responses are very aggressive, the first one was extremely cynical for whatever reason I don't why. I mean if I told you this in person would you have responded the way you did? What vested interest do you have in disproving me.

Whatever issues you had with the story you could have outlined them and I would have been happy to answer them.

Anyway it doesn't matter if you don't believe the story, for all of that it doesn't stop it from being true.

Ah crap. I just noticed your post count. Didn't realise you were trolling. Well played sir.

hatrickpatrick · 17-12-2011 03:00PM

MagicSean wrote: »

They don't have to give a reason

Evidently they do - check the Citizen's Information link I left over the page.

sdanseo · 17-12-2011 03:18PM

Sindri wrote: »

I thought Gardaí in uniform weren't allowed to search you. Maybe I'm wrong.

Interestingly enough I know a story, completely true, where two Guards arrested a man. They didn't ask any questions just arrested him on the spot. He was brought down to the jail cells and spent the night there.

Turns out the Guards thought he was a well known local drug dealer and they'd mistaken him for the drug dealer.
They lost their jobs.

Anyway tell your friend to report it to the Garda Ombudsman if he felt his rights were impinged.

Absolute rubbish that post. Gardaí in uniform not allowed to search you? Sacked for arresting someone on suspicion of something?

Utter garbage.

OP, the best thing for your friend to have done, or to do if he still feels aggreived, it to talk to the Sergeant in the station where the Guard is from. That way a chat can be had without going through a huge pile of officialdom and bull****, and the Guard won't end up disciplined harshly for what was in reality a little heavy-handedness, by the sounds of things.

charlemont · 17-12-2011 03:37PM

TheZohan wrote: »

You do realise anything the cops find in an illegal search cannot be submitted in court? Yeah?

Yes I recall a local and well known troublemaker at the time in Clonmel getting a possession of a knife charge struck out due to the fact the Garda never done it correctly and the judge explained members of the public need to be protected from unwarranted searches, Seems odd though as he clearly had a knife on him.

charlemont · 17-12-2011 03:41PM

Conall Cernach wrote: »

I was stopped in a car by those same "gentlemen". They took us all out of the car and did the usual standing search, where you going? etc and searched the car. When we got back into the car I noticed my phone was missing. They have the power to seize phones etc. but they must at least give you notice that they are doing so. These boys are crooks plain and simple.

I have also heard anecdotal reports of Guards stopping young fellas (teens and younger) in Dublin and taking their phones off them for no reason.

Tried it on me several years ago in Cork, I was heading straight to the station to complain and as I walked I passed them again he got out of the unmarked jeep and gave it back to me. He was a young fool with big ideas, The older cops were laughing at him.

MagicSean · 17-12-2011 04:01PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Evidently they do - check the Citizen's Information link I left over the page.

It is incorrect. They can ask your permission or they can tell you they are searching you under a statutory power. That is all they must do.

poisonated · 17-12-2011 04:28PM

Sorry MagicSean but you are wrong. Myself and most sensible people would tend to agree with an official government website over some random lad on the internet.

MagicSean · 17-12-2011 04:33PM

poisonated wrote: »

Sorry MagicSean but you are wrong. Myself and most sensible people would tend to agree with an official government website over some random lad on the internet.

Up to you. You should probably read it again though. A Garda is under no obligation to give you a reason. He must merely inform you he is exercising a statutory power.

Johro · 17-12-2011 04:46PM

Overheal wrote: »

And there are people on this forum who think there aren't bad cops everywhere. :rolleyes:

Definitely, and who also know that there's some that think that because they wear a uniform they can act like dicks and treat you like a criminal without any provocation whatsoever. Recognising that the Gardai in general do a good job and are decent doesn't mean we have to take the piss anytime anyone criticises one of them for being a twat.

Guards and their rights

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