Is it a good thing that the Gardai are not armed?

paky · 15-12-2011 02:17PM #1

In the past five years the PSNI have shot dead two people in the North for what would appear to be minor offences. The first victim was a guy who had stolen a car but was under the influence of drugs and was shot dead for not switching off his car engine at a police checkpoint. The second guy was shot dead after robbing a petrol station with a knife, and was half way up the street after been shot in the back. To me it would appear that both offences committed by both guys didnt warrant a death sentence, and i think the actions of the police officers involved were excessive. However the garda ERU were also involved in the shooting dead of two post office robbers back in 2005 but one of the men were armed and called upon to drop his weapon. It would appear that the possession of weapons and the danger they posed to the gardai warranted the gardai to fire upon them? But i'd imagine the gardai could have handled the situation better since they had intelligence that the post office would be robbed that morning. But in general gardai dont carry firearms, so would you think this is a good thing?

kincsem · 15-12-2011 02:19PM

Guns kill and maim.

starbelgrade · 15-12-2011 02:19PM

Giving the Gardai guns would be giving them a licence to shoot themselves in the foot both literally & methaphorically.

mathie · 15-12-2011 02:19PM

In before the armless.

jester77 · 15-12-2011 02:20PM

paky wrote: »

In the past five years the PSNI have shot dead two people in the North for what would appear to be minor offences. The first victim was a guy who had stolen a car but was under the influence of drugs and was shot dead for not switching off his car engine at a police checkpoint. The second guy was shot dead after robbing a petrol station with a knife, and was half way up the street after been shot in the back. To me it would appear that both offences committed by both guys didnt warrant a death sentence, and i think the actions of the police officers involved were excessive. However the garda ERU were also involved in the shooting dead of two post office robbers back in 2005 but one of the men were armed and called upon to drop his weapon. It would appear that the possession of weapons and the danger they posed to the gardai warranted the gardai to fire upon them? But i'd imagine the gardai could have handled the situation better since they had intelligence that the post office would be robbed that morning. But in general gardai dont carry firearms, so would you think this is a good thing?

If they weren't acting the bollox they wouldn't have been shot.

Where To · 15-12-2011 02:22PM

Anyone who doesn't believe AGS should be armed should be shot!

paky · 15-12-2011 02:23PM

jester77 wrote: »

If they weren't acting the bollox they wouldn't have been shot.

if the coppers werent carrying guns they wouldnt have been shot either

Wile E. Coyote · 15-12-2011 02:23PM

paky wrote: »

It would appear that the possession of weapons and the danger they posed to the gardai warranted the gardai to fire upon them?

You're taking the p*ss a little aren't you? It they can't shoot someone in possesion of a gun who poses a threat to them and everyone else around who can they shoot?

paky · 15-12-2011 02:25PM

Wile E. Coyote wrote: »

You're taking the p*ss a little aren't you? It they can't shoot someone in possesion of a gun who poses a threat to them and everyone else around who can they shoot?

they new the robbery was going to take place. they could of handled it better

Wile E. Coyote · 15-12-2011 02:25PM

paky wrote: »

if the coppers werent carrying guns they wouldnt have been shot either

The 'coppers' are trained and were legally carrying guns. There's a big difference.

Junco Partner · 15-12-2011 02:26PM

I think your everyday guard on the street should have a sidearm. Fairplay to the guards who can walk the streets without them in areas where the criminals are armed better than our army. they are braver men and women then I. I don't see why they shouldn't especially in this day and age where the irish criminal is well on it's way to punching in the same weight class as the international hoodlum. streets aren't as safe as they were 40 years ago so give the coppers guns.

Wile E. Coyote · 15-12-2011 02:27PM

paky wrote: »

they new the robbery was going to take place. they could of handled it better

How exactly? Talk us through how it should have been handled. Two fellas walk out of the post office with loaded guns, armed guards tell them to drop the weapons which they don't do. Then what? Ask them again and say please?

jester77 · 15-12-2011 02:28PM

paky wrote: »

if the coppers werent carrying guns they wouldnt have been shot either

And if they weren't shot the first guy could have took off in car and caused a serious accident, and the second guy might have stabbed someone with the knife he was holding.

triseke · 15-12-2011 02:29PM

I don't think the guards should be armed with pistols. The tendency to use them would be higher, as obviously they are more available.

The rank and file guards have been unarmed since the founding of the state, even through some very difficult and dangerous times. I don't think they need to start carrying guns now.

15-12-2011 02:29PM

paky wrote: »

they new the robbery was going to take place. they could of handled it better

How exactly? And don't give me an answer "in hindsight". Given the exact information that they had before the incident, come up with a plan that would have had a better chance of success than what happened

RATM · 15-12-2011 02:30PM

I remember years ago in my home town an armed detective finished his night shift and went down to the early house for a few jars. When in the toilets he left his gun on the cistern when taking a crap and then walked off without his piece.

A few minutes later a pissed regular walked in, saw the gun and decided to fire a shot of for the craic- into the toilet bowl. The whole bowl smashed and water flooded everywhere.

So to answer your question OP, no the Gardai should not be armed.

Paparazzo · 15-12-2011 02:31PM

f0ggy92 wrote: »

I think your everyday guard on the street should have a sidearm. Fairplay to the guards who can walk the streets without them in areas where the criminals are armed better than our army. they are braver men and women then I. I don't see why they shouldn't especially in this day and age where the irish criminal is well on it's way to punching in the same weight class as the international hoodlum. streets aren't as safe as they were 40 years ago so give the coppers guns.

That's the problem. Outside O'Connell Street in dublin, guards don't walk the street.

AeoNGriM · 15-12-2011 02:31PM

I believe that anyone who commits armed robbery waives the right to be given the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the response of armed cops. The keyword is armed, and if someone is armed and refusing to obey directions to stop and give up, then shoot the cnut.

As for the chap in the car on drugs not switching his engine off, that's a procedural issue and nothing to do with the fact that the PSNI were armed. Same thing happens in Iraq and Afghanistan and it is to safeguard the lives of the soldiers/police on duty.

In relation to the response of the PSNI in this situation, maybe they felt this guy was concealing an explosive and that their lives were at risk. At the end of the day it's a judgement call, and they have to follow procedure.

Also something to consider, what if the driver had made his escape and hit and killed someone, out of his mind as he was on drugs? I can't really have any sympathy for him joyriding in a car, out of his face on drugs, in a position where he poses a danger to others.

paky · 15-12-2011 02:34PM

28064212 wrote: »

How exactly? And don't give me an answer "in hindsight". Given the exact information that they had before the incident, come up with a plan that would have had a better chance of success than what happened

how did the criminals know that the builders carrying pistols were gardai?

they should of arrested them before they went into the post office. would have prevented the post office staff from been exposed to danger. isnt that the gardais job?

Junco Partner · 15-12-2011 02:35PM

Paparazzo wrote: »

That's the problem. Outside O'Connell Street in dublin, guards don't walk the street.

well take what i said there as including patrol cars and all manners in which the guards carry out their work. Back in my area there's always patrol cars and you do see the odd beat walking cop.

Duggy747 · 15-12-2011 02:37PM

Even though I'd have done nothing wrong, there's just something unsettling about a Garda watching you.

Sort of like walking out of a shop without buying anything and trying not to act like a thief :pac:

seamus · 15-12-2011 02:38PM

paky wrote: »

they should of arrested them before they went into the post office. would have prevented the post office staff from been exposed to danger. isnt that the gardais job?

You can't arrest someone if they haven't committed a crime.

They could possibly be arrested on conspiracy to commit a crime and unlawful possession of a firearm. What's that, a slap on the wrists, maybe a 6-month suspended sentence? With a good solicitor, they could even have gotten off.

Then the scumbags are free to reschedule their crime for another date and possibly get away with it. Instead you let them commit their crime, then you arrest them and lock them up.

Scumbag committed a crime with a weapon, was given a opportunity to relinquinsh the weapon, refused, got shot, bingo-bango, job done and no loss to society.

15-12-2011 02:38PM

paky wrote: »

how did the criminals know that the builders carrying pistols were gardai?

What? I asked you to come up with a plan for the gardaí, not the criminals

paky wrote: »

they should of arrested them before they went into the post office. would have prevented the post office staff from been exposed to danger. isnt that the gardais job?

Arrested them for what crime exactly? What information did they have?

paky · 15-12-2011 02:40PM

28064212 wrote: »

What? I asked you to come up with a plan for the gardaí, not the criminals

Arrested them for what crime exactly? What information did they have?

possession of weapons with intent to rob a post office

Doinker · 15-12-2011 02:40PM

paky wrote: »

how did the criminals know that the builders carrying pistols were gardai?

they should of arrested them before they went into the post office. would have prevented the post office staff from been exposed to danger. isnt that the gardais job?

Because there would be less to charge them with.

15-12-2011 02:41PM

paky wrote: »

possession of weapons with intent to rob a post office

And can you post a link that shows they had evidence of this?

Antomus Prime · 15-12-2011 02:47PM

Ive been saying for years that they should be armed!!! The biggest problem in the country (imo) is that criminals dont have any fear of the gardaí, and the majority of people dont respect them. Put a gun on their belts and those attitudes will soon change!!! If the guys theyre out chasing can get their hands on a firearm with ease then they should be equipped to fight fire with fire!!!!

Wile E. Coyote · 15-12-2011 02:49PM

paky wrote: »

how did the criminals know that the builders carrying pistols were gardai?

they should of arrested them before they went into the post office. would have prevented the post office staff from been exposed to danger. isnt that the gardais job?

They could have only arrested one of them for posession of the gun and that would be treated as a mickey mouse offense at best. It's very hard to prosecute someone for something they may or may not be planning despite what you might see on tv.

TheMilkyPirate · 15-12-2011 02:49PM

The right gardai are armed already. I'd hate to imagine what would happen if your regular garda was armed. Half of them are on permanent power trips and i've seen them do things in my town i wouldn't wish on anyone. I was arrested and beaten up for messing (we were wrestling) with a friend on the town because i was drunk Just like the other 400 people on the town that night. I'd rather not have them pointing a gun in my face as well for no reason thanks.

Antomus Prime · 15-12-2011 02:50PM

Wile E. Coyote wrote: »

It's very hard to prosecute someone for something they may or may not be planning despite what you might see on tv.

Unless you're Tom Cruize :cool:

Doinker · 15-12-2011 02:51PM

28064212 wrote: »

How exactly? And don't give me an answer "in hindsight". Given the exact information that they had before the incident, come up with a plan that would have had a better chance of success than what happened

By using non-lethal weapons - taiser, stun-guns, stun grenade, tear gas, plastic bullets etc. Thats if you meassure success by not killing people.

Is it a good thing that the Gardai are not armed?

Comments