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The 9-11 Dancing Middle Easterners and their vans
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It might have escaped your attention but there has been a media blackout across the board.
It only is if you're assuming beforehand it's part of a conspiracy.Brown Bomber wrote: »For example, King Mob erroneously claimed that if the Police transmission was legitimate then there would have been Officers on the scene requesting bomb squads and other Emergency Services. They did, and then King Mob shut up about it.0 -
But were exactly are you getting the idea that there's two separate locations?
According to the video the van is on 6th and King.
The report you posted did not give the exact location, and it certainly did not say it was on Barclay street like you claimed it did.
Uhhmm I was talking about the location you claimed because you didn't accept Barclay ...
I believe that the Van in the report didn't blew up0 -
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Uhhmm I was talking about the location you claimed because you didn't accept Barclay ...
Neither the recording or the report indicate that there was any sort of suspicious van there.I believe that the Van in the report didn't blew up0 -
So why do you think there was a second van at Barclay?
There was a Van stopped and searched at the Command center and there could be a Van Exploding at 6th and KingNeither the recording or the report indicate that there was any sort of suspicious van there.
Where?
You seem to know exactly how it happened so I'll ask you for the sake of clarity
Could you give me the Timeline for the moving of the command centers ?? because I count 4 locations already
And the time the Van was stopped ??but then you're not positing that there was a second van that did, correct?
Did what ?0 -
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Brown Bomber wrote: »Other examples of "innocent" people fleeing from the police then please.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/grigg/grigg-w115.html
http://www.forensic-evidence.com/site/Police/Pol_Running.htmlHmmmmmmmm....The Police Officer on the scene who seen the exploded van and the fleeing/arrested suspects has leapt to a ridiculous conclusion says Diogenes who wasn't there and knows sweet **** all about it.
Which police officer Brown Bomber. What was their name.I am sure that you are aware that Norman Minetta confirmed that it was a mural of a plane crashing into the WTC?
Confirmed as in he witnessed it himself?
So which moving company has/had the above for it's company logo? I'm all ears...And then the passengers of the "innocuous" van flee from the police and then their van explodes, The Bomb Squad, The EMS and ALL Citywide taskforce units are requested to this "innocuous" van,
And the names of any of the officers from these units who confirms that they arrived at the scene and saw the aftermath of a carbomb?Explosives.
Evidence that the van exploded please.It might have escaped your attention but there has been a media blackout across the board.
Orchestrated by whom? Enforced by whom? For over ten years?I've already listened it a number of times? have you at all? If you are genuinely interested listen to it yourself, the link is in this thread. I'm not going to hold your hand especially since you'll just try to find some way of twisting any facts it or if you can't then conveniently then ignore it.
SO YOU CAN'T GIVE ME THE NAME OF A SINGLE OFFICER WHO WITNESSED THE BOMB GOING OFF? No. Good.
Desperate stuff.0 -
Maybe you overlooked my question Di0genes
Do you believe what is said in The MTI report ??0 -
Maybe you overlooked my question Di0genes
Do you believe what is said in The MTI report ??
For the most part. I believe the comments about van "painted with the plane crashing into the WTC could easily be a mistake and it was a van with a mural ofplane that was flying over the NY skyline, and in the confusion and excitement it was misconstrued as a plane flying into the WTC.
It's a much more plausible explanation.0 -
For the most part. I believe the comments about van "painted with the plane crashing into the WTC could easily be a mistake and it was a van with a mural ofplane that was flying over the NY skyline, and in the confusion and excitement it was misconstrued as a plane flying into the WTC.
Ok fine by me
Could you name any of the officers that pulled over that Van and made the wrong interpretation of the mural ?
Because this being an official report and all you must assume that the makers did verify that "ridiculous CT claim" of a plane flying into the WTC painted on a Van driving around in Manhattan after the Attacks.It's a much more plausible explanation.
Sorry but now you just sound like the average CT'er you fight on this forum on a day to day basis (questioning the outcome of an official report)0 -
Ok fine by me
Could you name any of the officers that pulled over that Van and made the wrong interpretation of the mural ?
No see the lack of the names of the officers is one of the issues I have with the report.Because this being an official report
What in your mind does the the word "official" mean?and all you must assume that the makers did verify that "ridiculous CT claim" of a plane flying into the WTC painted on a Van driving around in Manhattan after the Attacks.
I'm not making any assumption.Sorry but now you just sound like the average CT'er you fight on this forum on a day to day basis (questioning the outcome of an official report)
Im sorry you appear to be jumping up and down excitedly going OMG ITS A OFFICIAL REPORT!
It's by the College of Business of San Jose State University? Why should I take everything in it as gospel truth?
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No see the lack of the names of the officers is one of the issues I have with the report.
You want people to put names forward and when faced with the same question you pull this out of the head .. i admit you are dodging this one perfectly ....What in your mind does the the word "official" mean?
In this case I use it as being a non CT based report ..even King Mob agrees with the report,Yes, I believe the report is probably accurately describing what happened.
The police suspected the van might contain explosives for whatever reason, arrested who they suspected were the drivers, but the van was safe and not filled with explosives.
Also conveniently leaving out the mural ... but okayIm sorry you appear to be jumping up and down excitedly going OMG ITS A OFFICIAL REPORT!
No i am just baffled that you dismiss everything that doesn't suit your narrow minded views ... I thought that it only applied to CT but now even "official" reports are not safe
Look this report doesn't suit your theory .. That doesn't automatically make the report wrong ...It's by the College of Business of San Jose State University? Why should I take everything in it as gospel truth?
Ahhhh you should have used the same attitude with the NIST report0 -
You want people to put names forward and when faced with the same question you pull this out of the head .. i admit you are dodging this one perfectly ....
No No I'm not. I'm sorry if this is a troubling concept for you. If Brown Bomber thinks several NYPD officers pulled over a truck that later exploded, then the onus is on Brown Bomber to provide the names of the officers and not I.
The burden of proof lies with the claimant.In this case I use it as being a non CT based report ..even King Mob agrees with the report,
What king mob believes is irrelevant to our discussion.Also conveniently leaving out the mural ... but okay
As I mentioned the mural could have been of a plane flying over the NYC skyline, and it was misconstrued in the panic and confusion as being a plane flying into the twin towers.No i am just baffled that you dismiss everything that doesn't suit your narrow minded views ... I thought that it only applied to CT but now even "official" reports are not safe
I'm more than happy to take the Mineta report on face value on any number of things, they can be independently verified.
The claim that their vans with murals of planes crashing into the twin towers is unverified, as is the claims about a truck bomb going off, that isn't in the Mineta report but Brown Bomber is claiming it happened. I've asked for the names of officers who made the arrests or saw the bomb going off and you have both abjectly failed to do.Look this report doesn't suit your theory .. That doesn't automatically make the report wrong ...
No but the absence of any supporting evidence does. Or a any plausible theory as to what the vans were doing.Ahhhh you should have used the same attitude with the NIST report
If you can point me to any section of the NIST where is makes a unsubstantiated claim I'd be happy to read it.0 -
There was a Van stopped and searched at the Command center and there could be a Van Exploding at 6th and King
The report you posted says that the command centre was at 6th as well.Where?
You seem to know exactly how it happened so I'll ask you for the sake of clarity
Why did you claim there was a van on Barclay street?Could you give me the Timeline for the moving of the command centers ?? because I count 4 locations already
And the time the Van was stopped ??
You are the one positing that there was two vans, the onus on you is to show that they both existed.Did what ?
Did they both blow up?
If not, did only one of them blow up? Which one blew up?
Asking questions here is like pulling teeth.0 -
In this case I use it as being a non CT based report ..even King Mob agrees with the report,
Also conveniently leaving out the mural ... but okay
However you seem to be conveniently leaving out the part where the report says that the van did not explode.... but okay...0 -
To clarify, I believe the report. And I also agree with Diogenes when he suggests that the "mural" was something innocuous that was misinterpreted in the panic of the day.
However you seem to be conveniently leaving out the part where the report says that the van did not explode.... but okay...
A quick correction: The report does not say the van didn't explode. It implies it.0 -
It not being mentioned on the news is not an indication of a media blackout.
Yes it is. That is the definition of a media blackout.IIt only is if you're assuming beforehand it's part of a conspiracy.I didn't so much "shut up about it" as I just don't see the point in clarifying it to you when you are incapable of answering direct simple questions.0 -
WTF...? You have provided exactly no examples of innocent people running from the Police. Nevermind people running from the Police on 9-11 for no apparent reason.
Is that your best effort?
Did you even read your own links???[FONT=Times New Roman,Georgia,Times][FONT=Times New Roman,Georgia,Times]Unprovoked flight upon the sight of police, said the Court, is the consummate act of evasion. Although it is not necessarily indicative of wrongdoing, it clearly is suggestive of such.[/FONT][/FONT]
Which is exactly my point!!!Confirmed as in he witnessed it himself?
At no time in history has "confirmed" meant "witnessed it himself". I can't imagine why you would think it does.So which moving company has/had the above for it's company logo? I'm all ears...So which moving company has/had the above for it's company logo?Evidence that the van exploded please.Orchestrated by whom?Enforced by whom?For over ten years?0 -
Brown Bomber wrote: »A quick correction: The report does not say the van didn't explode. It implies it.
The report does not mention it exploding, there's no sane way to take that sentence any other way than "the van did not explode".
So yea, if you'd like to be pointlessly pedantic about it. It implies it did not explode.
So do you think the report is accurate?Brown Bomber wrote: »
Yes it is. That is the definition of a media blackout.
Or is it the fact that the media doesn't report non-stories?
For example a false alarm bomb scare?Brown Bomber wrote: »You didn't shut up about it you just didn't say anything about it ever again?0 -
No No I'm not. I'm sorry if this is a troubling concept for you. If Brown Bomber thinks several NYPD officers pulled over a truck that later exploded, then the onus is on Brown Bomber to provide the names of the officers and not I.
The burden of proof lies with the claimant.
So it lies with the maker of that Movie .. The fact that you are not willing to get the names yourself by watching the movie is no ones fault but your own
Instead you come up with thisI'm sorry you're what? NOT INTERESTED? What a pathetic cop out. Brown Bomber thinks there could have been a truck bomb going off on 911 in New York but can't be arsed re listening to the recording.
This is desperate stuff.As I mentioned the mural could have been of a plane flying over the NYC skyline, and it was misconstrued in the panic and confusion as being a plane flying into the twin towers.
What panic ??
They stopped the Van ... thought it could hold a Bomb.... evacuated the area ... Called in the Bomb squad ... Bomb squad investigates .... Everything thoroughly searched .... Nothing found ..
And you want us to believe that everyone there was running around as a headless chicken panicking all the time not able to make out the meaning of the Mural on the Van ... yeah rightThe claim that their vans with murals of planes crashing into the twin towers is unverified
Is in the MTI reportas is the claims about a truck bomb going off, that isn't in the Mineta report but Brown Bomber is claiming it happened. I've asked for the names of officers who made the arrests or saw the bomb going off and you have both abjectly failed to do.
So you say ..certain things that end up in reports are not true
..certain things that are not in reports didn't happen
..certain things yo can't be arsed to look up yourself so they didn't happen eitherNo but the absence of any supporting evidence does. Or a any plausible theory as to what the vans were doing.
But that's the problem your way of thinking doesn't leave any room for plausibilityIf you can point me to any section of the NIST where is makes a unsubstantiated claim I'd be happy to read it.
Didn't we had thread upon thread dealing with that
Plenty of respectable people did show the Flaws of the report ..0 -
And they couldn't have been the same van because...?The report you posted says that the command centre was at 6th as well.
That's why the timeline is importantYou claimed that the Van was on Barclay street. Neither the report you posted nor the recording say that a van was on Barclay street.
Why did you claim there was a van on Barclay street?
The whole point with the command centre's is that neither one was close to 6th and kingNo I can't because neither source provides such information. You are the one positing that there was two vans, the onus on you is to show that they both existed.
How do you Explain 1 Van being at possibly two places ?You are suggesting that there was two vans.
Did they both blow up?
If not, did only one of them blow up? Which one blew up?Asking questions here is like pulling teeth.0 -
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To clarify, I believe the report. And I also agree with Diogenes when he suggests that the "mural" was something innocuous that was misinterpreted in the panic of the day.
I explained earlier that there was no indication of panic ... It suits your theory to dismiss the Mural but is not a valid one
So you change your original stance on the report? ...However you seem to be conveniently leaving out the part where the report says that the van did not explode.... but okay...
Where did i conveniently leave out that part ?? ...
It is in the MTI report i posted ... I left it in your quote when replying
So please point out where i left it out conveniently so i can correct that0 -
There is 3 km between the locations
And Barclay ....there was also a command post set up at pier 92 I think
That's why the timeline is important
Because they had a headquarter on Barclay street as well, I missed the one on 6th in the report (still 3km away from 6th and king) Care to explain that ?
The whole point with the command centre's is that neither one was close to 6th and king
Nope there is quite a large distance between the command post in the report and 6th and king .. that leaves the room for a 2 (maybe more) Van scenario
How do you Explain 1 Van being at possibly two places ?
In fact 6th and King is quite close to Barclay, perhaps that's what they were referring to?
Is the only possible explanation for this discrepancy to invent and entirely new van from thin air?No ...possibly, .. and probably the one on 6th and king ??
Is that correct?I explained earlier that there was no indication of panic ... It suits your theory to dismiss the Mural but is not a valid one
The report said that it was an innocent delivery van.
Or was this van painted differently to the van that you think exploded?So you change your original stance on the report? ...Where did i conveniently leave out that part ?? ...
It is in the MTI report i posted ... I left it in your quote when replying
So please point out where i left it out conveniently so i can correct that0 -
Im sorry you appear to be jumping up and down excitedly going OMG ITS A OFFICIAL REPORT!
It's by the College of Business of San Jose State University? Why should I take everything in it as gospel truth?0 -
For the most part. I believe the comments about van "painted with the plane crashing into the WTC could easily be a mistake and it was a van with a mural ofplane that was flying over the NY skyline, and in the confusion and excitement it was misconstrued as a plane flying into the WTC.
It's a much more plausible explanation.
Proportion of all known reports that say mural was of a plane crashing into New York: 100%
Proportion of all known reports that say mural was a "plane that was flying over the NY skyline": 0%
You've somehow convinced yourself that the 0% is "much more plausible".
Why???????
Hardly skepticism is it?
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So then the media not reporting, say, the gaming convention I recently attended is the result of me obtaining a media blackout?
Or is it the fact that the media doesn't report non-stories?
For example a false alarm bomb scare?
Nevertheless, I've already had a needlessly long, drawn out conversation about that which is self-evident i.e. that running from the Police is an indication of wrongdoing. We really shouldn't need the US Supreme Court to tell us, as they did that it is. It's common sense territory as is the current object of our conversation. Again all it takes is common sense to realise that a van with people from the "Middle East" that has a mural painted on it of a plane diving into the WTC is stopped by the NYPD in New York on the day of 9-11, it's passengers make a run for it, are caught, then arrested, the area is evacuated, the bomb squad, medics and the entire NY City Taskforce are summoned to the scene is newsworthy.
Even all this is accepting (which I don't) that the NYPD Police officer that seen their van explode suddenly became temporarily insane and the van didn't explode.0 -
Incidentally, this is Robert Sandford, the guy who made the Police Radio recording with a little background information.
Robert (above), on his side of the Golden Gate Bridge. Below is the WB6NYC Shack.
http://www.fenichel.com/RobtShack.jpg
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica][FONT=arial, Arial, Helvetica]Robert Sanford - WB6NYC
Robert Sanford went about his life as he usually does. 11th September started off early for Robert - about 6.00 am, but who cares...... Robert is an Amateur radio enthusiast (as I am) and when he learned about the events unfolding in New York Robert was on the case immediately.
During the next few hours Robert recorded some of the most amazing audio that he had ever had to listen to - and probably some of the saddest content. Events on 11th September are known to most people on Earth, but when you actually listen to the audio recordings that Robert captured it WILL change your view of the whole thing known as Incident 0727.
Here's some info about Robert in his own words:
After some 20 years in New York City I have decided to "get the hell out of Dodge" and make the nice quiet town of Sausalito my new "home town". I was the Emergency Coordinator for ARES, the Radio Officer for RACES and the SKYWARN Coordinator for New York City.
[/FONT][/FONT]http://www.incident0727.com/robert_sanford.htm0 -
Brown Bomber wrote: »Firstly, you don't seem to know what a "false bomb scare" is. It is a bomb threat/warning, the "false" making it an empty threat warning.
Bomb scares can come from authorities misinterpreting reports and innocuous things without the need for someone to make a threat. Including shutting down roads and calling in emergency services.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Boston_bomb_scareBrown Bomber wrote: »Nevertheless, I've already had a needlessly long, drawn out conversation about that which is self-evident i.e. that running from the Police is an indication of wrongdoing. We really shouldn't need the US Supreme Court to tell us, as they did that it is. It's common sense territory as is the current object of our conversation.
Running does not make people guilty of anything other than running from the police. This would not even guarantee a charge of resisting arrest.
Furthermore we can't even conclude that they did run in the first place.
Other possibilities remain such as the police officer misspeaking, or misinterpreting what they had done.Brown Bomber wrote: »Again all it takes is common sense to realise that a van with people from the "Middle East" that has a mural painted on it of a plane diving into the WTC is stopped by the NYPD in New York on the day of 9-11, it's passengers make a run for it, are caught, then arrested, the area is evacuated, the bomb squad, medics and the entire NY City Taskforce are summoned to the scene is newsworthy.
And which of this is inconsistent with a false bomb scare?Brown Bomber wrote: »Even all this is accepting (which I don't) that the NYPD Police officer that seen their van explode suddenly became temporarily insane and the van didn't explode.
There's no other evidence of any sort to support that there was an explosion at all.
So before I actually discuss the recording (since it's clear you are incapable of honestly answering the question I asked.), have you any other evidence to support the idea that a van exploded beyond that recording?0 -
More pointless pedantry.Bomb scares can come from authorities misinterpreting reports and innocuous things without the need for someone to make a threat. Including shutting down roads and calling in emergency services.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Boston_bomb_scareIt is common sense stuff, that you are twisting and misrepresenting to suit your ends.Running does not make people guilty of anything other than running from the police. This would not even guarantee a charge of resisting arrest.RESISTING ARREST
A Misdemeanor
PENAL LAW 205.30
(Committed on or after Sept. 1, 1980)
Under our law, a person is guilty of Resisting Arrest when he
or she intentionally prevents or attempts to prevent a police officer
[or peace officer] from effecting an authorized arrest of himself or
herself [or another person].
http://www.nycourts.gov/cji/2-PenalLaw/205/205-30.pdfFurthermore we can't even conclude that they did run in the first place.Other possibilities remain such as the police officer misspeaking, or misinterpreting what they had done.
Possibility A:The Police Officer said the passengers fled when what he meant to say was they waited patiently in their car???? That's absurd.
Possibility B: The Police Officer thought he saw the passengers take flight but it turns out they were actually waiting patiently in their van???? Equally absurd.Where are you getting the idea that the area was evacuated?And we're not accepting that's what the officer reported.
There's no other evidence of any sort to support that there was an explosion at all.
If you were listening to a game on the radio would you not accept the final score of the game until fans who'd been at the game rang into BBC Radio?So before I actually discuss the recording (since it's clear you are incapable of honestly answering the question I asked.), have you any other evidence to support the idea that a van exploded beyond that recording?
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I said I'd get back to the "Boston Bomb scare", now why did that get a ton of coverage, all media outlets seemed to have reported heavily on it and this "bomb scare" got absolutely nothing, ever?0 -
Brown Bomber wrote: »More alliteration?
I'll come back to this in a minute.
Now you are being completely unfair. I don't have any "ends" so let's stick to the topic.
You make no sense. Running away from Police is an obvious case of resisting arrest and is a crime in NY.
I said that running doesn't guarantee a charge of resisting arrest.
It doesn't.Brown Bomber wrote: »Yes we can. The Police Officer on the scene has said so. Minneta doesn't mention it at all and there is absolutely zero evidence to suggest otherwise.Brown Bomber wrote: »This is absolutely ridiculous.
Possibility A:The Police Officer said the passengers fled when what he meant to say was they waited patiently in their car???? That's absurd.
Possibility B: The Police Officer thought he saw the passengers take flight but it turns out they were actually waiting patiently in their van???? Equally absurd.
One of many many possibilities is that the pair of suspects left the van and turned and moved away form the police officer, failing to notice or hear him, which he then misinterpreted as an attempt to flee.
Or perhaps the cop's car was parked a good bit away and when they left the van and he had to run after them to get them to stop?
But then this is all pretty irrelevant as them running does not prove their guilt.Brown Bomber wrote: »Minetta says so.Brown Bomber wrote: »What other evidence is neccessary? You have a live, on the scene commentary by professionals.Brown Bomber wrote: »No, but the Police radio transmission is significant and stands by itself.have you any evidence that the van didn't explode and was returned to it's owners?
So just to be sure, the only actual source you have that the van exploded was the record featured in the earlier video.
You have nothing else to confirm that happened?Brown Bomber wrote: »I said I'd get back to the "Boston Bomb scare", now why did that get a ton of coverage, all media outlets seemed to have reported heavily on it and this "bomb scare" got absolutely nothing, ever?
And I do like how you totally avoided the point I made with that link.0 -
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So it's impossible that they, when writing the report though that because both the van and the command centre were both on 6th, they were closer they they actually were?
In fact 6th and King is quite close to Barclay, perhaps that's what they were referring to?
When writing a report the time of guessing is over .. All the things you mentioned above are easy verifiable ... from the command center on 6th to 6th and king is 3km ... that is NOT nearby, and Barclay is even further away from 6th and king ... according to my searchIs the only possible explanation for this discrepancy to invent and entirely new van from thin air?
No but it is thought (food) for discussionSo you believe that the one van in the report (ie. "near the command centre") did not explode, but that there was another on 6th and King that did explode?
Is that correct?
As said above that could well be ... The report leaves plenty room for discussion ...But the Video BB posted does the sameSo there's not possible way that what was on the van could have been misinterpreted? I'm not dismissing it, I'm offering a sane explanation for it, in accordance to the report you posted.
The report said that it was an innocent delivery van.
Or was this van painted differently to the van that you think exploded?
I dont know KM, but I'm not ruling anything out .... the whole panic excuse is pretty much non valid i think, .... I also find it strange that i can't find no pictures of a Van with such a painting driving around there that day ...
Did they let the guys go after they searched the Van @ the command center loading up with explosives after and driving to 6th and king?? Who knows... again Timeline is importantBecause if you are choosing to believe the report, then you cannot use it to support the theory that a van exploded because it claims otherwise.
That's my whole problem .. i tend to believe both0
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