Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

Uncharted 3: Drake's Deception

11213141618

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,983 ✭✭✭mystic86


    krudler wrote: »
    Yes, its the PS3's crowning glory imo.

    I agree.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,509 ✭✭✭NotorietyH


    Some parts of this game are just terribly designed which is a real shame because it has stopped me from playing it. The weekend I got it I stopped playing at that f*cking ballroom stage, went back to it there and died at least another 20 times. Stupid, cheap, unbelievably frustrating deaths. I have absolutely no desire to keep playing the game now which is a real shame as I was enjoying it for the most part up until then. Too many times they throw you into a room with a few heavily armoured guys and swarms of regular guys attacking you with no real cover. Very frustrating. Can't remember getting this frustrated with Uncharted 2. Real shame. I thought this would be competing for my game of the year. Not even in the top 5, maybe even top 10 at this stage. Going back to it now, but that level is making me want to snap the disc in half.

    Are there many more rooms where they throw three snipers, a grenade launcher guy and armoured pricks at you? If there are I'm just going to stop playing now. Story isn't really compelling me forward in any way either.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,932 ✭✭✭YouSavedMyLife


    NotorietyH wrote: »
    Some parts of this game are just terribly designed which is a real shame because it has stopped me from playing it. The weekend I got it I stopped playing at that f*cking ballroom stage, went back to it there and died at least another 20 times. Stupid, cheap, unbelievably frustrating deaths. I have absolutely no desire to keep playing the game now which is a real shame as I was enjoying it for the most part up until then. Too many times they throw you into a room with a few heavily armoured guys and swarms of regular guys attacking you with no real cover. Very frustrating. Can't remember getting this frustrated with Uncharted 2. Real shame. I thought this would be competing for my game of the year. Not even in the top 5, maybe even top 10 at this stage. Going back to it now, but that level is making me want to snap the disc in half.

    Are there many more rooms where they throw three snipers, a grenade launcher guy and armoured pricks at you? If there are I'm just going to stop playing now. Story isn't really compelling me forward in any way either.

    Put the game on the lowest difficulty. Should be manageable then.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,923 ✭✭✭kearneybobs


    Put the game on the lowest difficulty. Should be manageable then.
    But even if he does do that, his point still stands. On normal difficulty, he shouldn't have to do that, which is pretty much due to bad design.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,509 ✭✭✭NotorietyH


    Yeah it's just bad game design in places. I have no problem with a difficult game, as long as it's challenging in a satisfying way, not in a cheap "We couldn't think of anything interesting to do with the combat in this part so we'll just throw loads of over-powered guys at you," tactic that they keep resorting to in this. It's by no means a bad game, it's a very good game, but those bad design choices keep it from being a great game for me.

    I shouldn't have to drop down to the easiest difficulty setting. I've never had to do that with a game before, and I play a hell of a lot of games, often on the higher difficulty settings, I never drop below normal. It's just absolutely killed the flow of the game for me. I finished Uncharted 2 in one sitting basically, and this I stopped playing on it's launch weekend, and have finally got through the ballroom level just there tonight after picking it up again, but I'm just waiting for the same thing to happen again so I have no desire to keep playing . Have too many unplayed games sitting next to me so have no desire to push through the frustrating parts of Uncharted. The set pieces are fantastic and all that, and I will finish it eventually, but not for a good while I'd say, maybe over Christmas. Which considering Uncharted 3 wa sone of my most anticipated games of the year is disappointing. Still, have plenty of other games to play anyway! It takes an immense amount of frustration for me to complain about a game these days, if I don't like something I generally don't bother commenting on it, but I needed to vent about this!


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,932 ✭✭✭YouSavedMyLife


    I have to disagree, and i dislike the way people are throwing around the term "bad game design" like it actually has some merit. I would like a definition of what it actually means because as far as i can see from reading peoples posts it equates to the game being to hard. Take said ballroom section for example. I agree it was tough. One of the toughest gun sections in the game. But its not impossible. Take for example most of the Ninja Gaiden games on the SNES. All considered by many to be very difficult games, thus do all of those games have "bad game design"

    If the Uncharted 3 game designers decided to take all the armoured soldiers and the snipers from that section would it be consider "Good game design" or not "bad game design"?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,509 ✭✭✭NotorietyH


    I have to disagree, and i dislike the way people are throwing around the term "bad game design" like it actually has some merit. I would like a definition of what it actually means because as far as i can see from reading peoples posts it equates to the game being to hard. Take said ballroom section for example. I agree it was tough. One of the toughest gun sections in the game. But its not impossible. Take for example most of the Ninja Gaiden games on the SNES. All considered by many to be very difficult games, thus do all of those games have "bad game design"

    If the Uncharted 3 game designers decided to take all the armoured soldiers and the snipers from that section would it be consider "Good game design" or not "bad game design"?

    I didn't say it was impossible, I didn't say it had to be easy. I said it was hard in a cheap and uninspired way that contradict the way that you instinctively play the game. As I said I have no problem with a game being hard, when it's in a satisfyingly challenging way. For the most part Uncharted 3 presents its combat as a cover-based shooter, and those sections contradict that by forcing you into cover only to have a heavily armoured guy waltz up behind you unseen and one shot you with his shotgun. They could have presented that scenario in a much more interesting way where you did actually have to utilize cover properly rather than get through the situation through blind luck which is what it felt like to me.

    That section is badly designed, because it's playing against the very mechanics of the game that have been established throughout the series. I'll say it again, I have no problem with hard or difficult games, I've played through nearly every level of Super Meat Boy and enjoyed every second of it because it was incredibly well designed, the mechanics were flawless and when I died I felt like it was my fault, not the games. I played through Gear of War 3 on a higher diffilculty setting and there were plenty of times where I had to replay a section again and again to get through it, but never got as frustrated as I did with Uncharted 3 because the sections were generally well designed and there were much less cheap deaths. There were no sections of Gears of War where I felt I got through the section through sheer dumb luck because it took a couple of seconds longer for the one-shot tank to get to me. It's a badly designed section, and it stands out more because most of the game is well designed.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 52,104 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    There's a big difference between tough butfair game design and badly designed arbitary difficulty, otherwise know as a dick move.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 615 ✭✭✭NunianVonFuch


    Take for example most of the Ninja Gaiden games on the SNES. All considered by many to be very difficult games, thus do all of those games have "bad game design"

    It's considered bad game design because it goes against the difficulty curve up until that point. Ninja Gaiden and others are consistently hard. If you haven't managed the players expectations and the lead up to a really challenging section, it's the game designers fault. Like if that impossible section was at the end of the game, or near enough, it would be acceptable as things would be expected to get harder throughout.

    Throwing it in in the middle and then getting easier again straight afterwards is bad design, a spike in the difficulty curve that shouldn't happen.

    Well said gents


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,923 ✭✭✭kearneybobs


    I have to disagree, and i dislike the way people are throwing around the term "bad game design" like it actually has some merit. I would like a definition of what it actually means because as far as i can see from reading peoples posts it equates to the game being to hard. Take said ballroom section for example. I agree it was tough. One of the toughest gun sections in the game. But its not impossible. Take for example most of the Ninja Gaiden games on the SNES. All considered by many to be very difficult games, thus do all of those games have "bad game design"

    If the Uncharted 3 game designers decided to take all the armoured soldiers and the snipers from that section would it be consider "Good game design" or not "bad game design"?
    Those sections of the game (the ballroom and the cargohold of the ship) completely remove any fun from the game and it turns into being a chore.
    Those parts aren't fun. They are needlessly frustrating. Usually the challenge in the Uncharted games the combat sequences are almost a puzzle in itself, deciphering which enemy to take out next and going about it the right way, yet at those sections enemies spawn behind you out of some sort of monster closet. It was disliked in Doom, and it's pretty much dislike here.

    When the game goes from moving along very smoothly to coming to a halt very abruptly, there is something wrong. Everyone seems to have had trouble at those sections of the game on normal. Is there something wrong with how everybody has been playing the game?

    Those sections of the game aren't helped by the shoddy aiming mechanics (which have thankfully been fixed if you want them to be). It would be interesting to see if those parts of the game are any better with the revamped shooting mechanics.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,509 ✭✭✭NotorietyH


    Those sections of the game aren't helped by the shoddy aiming mechanics (which have thankfully been fixed if you want them to be). It would be interesting to see if those parts of the game are any better with the revamped shooting mechanics.

    They aren't. I stopped playing launch weekend and started it again last night after the patch. Though I would've been rustier at the start after not playing it for a couple of weeks. It's marginally better, but not by much.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,930 ✭✭✭✭Zero-Cool


    Game has shipped, should get it soon. Was the patch released to fix the aiming? I only heard the aiming was bad, havn't tried it yet.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,509 ✭✭✭NotorietyH


    sheehy83 wrote: »
    Game has shipped, should get it soon. Was the patch released to fix the aiming? I only heard the aiming was bad, havn't tried it yet.

    Yep last week i think. I didn't find the aiming too bad to begin with, but it's definitely better now.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,932 ✭✭✭YouSavedMyLife


    I still dont buy it. I would just consider that section hard. Sure for most of the game you can sit behind one section of cover and pick guys off. But in that section you actually have to move from cover to cover and work your ass off. I would consider this hard. As for the enemies spawning behind you. I would consider this a problem if there was no cover between you and the enemies, but there is.

    But i will agree with NunianVonFuch. There was a difficulty spike at that point and the sections before and after where not nearly as difficult. If this is considered bad game design then yes im sold. But it honestly didnt bother me as much as it seems to be bothering other people here as i just see it as being a hard section.

    Speaking of which i think ill start my crushing run through of the game today


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 52,104 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    I've not played the game but enemies spawning behind the player and killing them without warning is atrocious game design and an example of arbituary difficulty by killing the player through no fault of their own. Tough games like Super Meat Boy are difficult but the challenge is presented before the player so if you mess up it's your fault.

    Strange that such a big developer would make such a mistake. It does reek of a rushed release and testing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,509 ✭✭✭NotorietyH


    I still dont buy it. I would just consider that section hard. Sure for most of the game you can sit behind one section of cover and pick guys off. But in that section you actually have to move from cover to cover and work your ass off. I would consider this hard. As for the enemies spawning behind you. I would consider this a problem if there was no cover between you and the enemies, but there is.

    But i will agree with NunianVonFuch. There was a difficulty spike at that point and the sections before and after where not nearly as difficult. If this is considered bad game design then yes im sold. But it honestly didnt bother me as much as it seems to be bothering other people here as i just see it as being a hard section.

    Speaking of which i think ill start my crushing run through of the game today

    But there wasn't tonnes of cover to move behind that's my point. I was checkpointed at the end of the room where the big crates were and the second I moved from behind them I was either hit by a grenade launcher or sniper. Staying behind the crates to try and take out the balcony I had the armoured guys just waltzing up to or guys spawning behind or beside me and there was no cover for me to move to. I didn't suddenly get bad at games for that section of the game and miraculously recover my form five minutes later. If I had the option to move from cover to cover, the basic mechanics of the game, I would've done that and found it tough and challenging but fair enough.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,872 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    I actually got past the ballroom first (or at least second) time around on hard difficulty. Actually turned into a very intense fight, with some frantic shotgun blasts giving a real kick.

    As for bad game design? I thought the pre-ballroom asshole armoured guy was much, much cheaper. On hard, that was a ****ing nightmare as trying to avoid him while tackling the grunts was a massive pain.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,447 ✭✭✭richymcdermott


    I actually got past the ballroom first (or at least second) time around on hard difficulty. Actually turned into a very intense fight, with some frantic shotgun blasts giving a real kick.

    As for bad game design? I thought the pre-ballroom asshole armoured guy was much, much cheaper. On hard, that was a ****ing nightmare as trying to avoid him while tackling the grunts was a massive pain.

    Try fighting him on crushing , its a nightmare:pac:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,405 ✭✭✭gizmo


    I have to disagree, and i dislike the way people are throwing around the term "bad game design" like it actually has some merit. I would like a definition of what it actually means because as far as i can see from reading peoples posts it equates to the game being to hard. Take said ballroom section for example. I agree it was tough. One of the toughest gun sections in the game. But its not impossible. Take for example most of the Ninja Gaiden games on the SNES. All considered by many to be very difficult games, thus do all of those games have "bad game design"

    If the Uncharted 3 game designers decided to take all the armoured soldiers and the snipers from that section would it be consider "Good game design" or not "bad game design"?
    The ballroom scene is perhaps the best example to use because it contains the most examples of the worst aspects of combat in the game.
    • Enemies who can fire grenade launcher rounds and throw grenades with pin point accuracy.
    • Throwing armoured enemies (who are overpowered in the first place) at you when you're trying to take down the above enemies who already have the advantage of the high ground.
    • Giving you only one usable bit of cover in the room which also causes the camera to zoom in on Drake thus obscuring your view.
    • Throwing ground based enemies at you who will happily enage you in hand to hand combat, driving you both out of cover where their mates are perfectly happy to fill both of you full of holes.

    So, how could that scene be improved? Well, off the top of my head, the top floor could have been collapsed with the aid of destructible supports. That would have introduced the always welcome feature of risk vs reward. The distance between your cover and the enemy spawn areas should been increased to allow you more time to react to enemies coming from different directions and stop them from sneaking up on you. Finally, cover to the left and the right of the middle one should have been made available. You could have made each bit of cover destructible if you wished to add a little more danger.

    General points-wise...
    • Enemies shouldn't be so incredibly accurate with grenades/launchers.
    • Armoured enemies should be more vunerable in certain areas of their body i.e. they shouldn't be able to take a shotgun blast to the head on Normal once their helmet has been knocked off.
    • If an enemy engages you in hand to hand combat then their mates shouldn't attempt to murder you both.

    With respect to combat in general, there could have simply been less of it. As I said earlier, these sections seemed to have been increased at the expense of exploration scenes and puzzles. Personally, I look at the Uncharted series as an Indiana Jones type experience, primarily about the adventure aspect but not afraid to get its hands dirty should the situation deteriorate. This, to echo what Retr0gamer said above, is indicitive of a rushed devleopment process and altogether surprising from a team like Naughty Dog.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,983 ✭✭✭mystic86


    Retr0gamer wrote: »
    I've not played the game but enemies spawning behind the player and killing them without warning is atrocious game design and an example of arbituary difficulty by killing the player through no fault of their own. Tough games like Super Meat Boy are difficult but the challenge is presented before the player so if you mess up it's your fault.

    Strange that such a big developer would make such a mistake. It does reek of a rushed release and testing.

    I don't remember any spawning behind me.

    I do remember them flanking me (visibly!) while I'm dealing with other threats.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,923 ✭✭✭kearneybobs


    mystic86 wrote: »
    I don't remember any spawning behind me.

    I do remember them flanking me (visibly!) while I'm dealing with other threats.
    I'm fairly sure they were spawning behind me, out of camera shot. Camera facing towards the main area covered behind the crates where you take out the first guy when you come in, I found myself getting shot from behind when I'm 99% sure that there was no way that an enemy could get behind me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,160 ✭✭✭tok9


    I don't think anyone spawned behind me either on hard but that said I do agree that it was a tough situation to get out of. Must have taken me 10 goes anyway.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,509 ✭✭✭NotorietyH


    I'm fairly sure they were spawning behind me, out of camera shot. Camera facing towards the main area covered behind the crates where you take out the first guy when you come in, I found myself getting shot from behind when I'm 99% sure that there was no way that an enemy could get behind me.

    They definitely spawn behind you up there, happened me a couple of times.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,983 ✭✭✭mystic86


    NotorietyH wrote: »
    They definitely spawn behind you up there, happened me a couple of times.

    ?

    what stage of the game precisely are we talking about?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,923 ✭✭✭kearneybobs


    mystic86 wrote: »
    ?

    what stage of the game precisely are we talking about?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=YjuD6BaG-e8#t=600s

    If you get spotted at the 10 minute mark you get destroyed by enemies. Inundated. They spawn behind you. They did for me anyway. If you take cover at the crates where he knocks the guy out just after he walks in, the spawn behind you from where you came in the revolving door (not exactly that spot. either side of the door at the top of the stairs.)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,983 ✭✭✭mystic86


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=YjuD6BaG-e8#t=600s

    If you get spotted at the 10 minute mark you get destroyed by enemies. Inundated. They spawn behind you. They did for me anyway. If you take cover at the crates where he knocks the guy out just after he walks in, the spawn behind you from where you came in the revolving door (not exactly that spot. either side of the door at the top of the stairs.)

    that youtube video - that guy is getting so frustrated - why doesn't he just use his gun and get on with it!

    anyway, for me i went over to the crates that are just in front of the 'stage' and all the action was in front of me...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,509 ✭✭✭NotorietyH


    mystic86 wrote: »
    that youtube video - that guy is getting so frustrated - why doesn't he just use his gun and get on with it!

    anyway, for me i went over to the crates that are just in front of the 'stage' and all the action was in front of me...

    Yeah that's where I was, by the big crates and it was still stupefyingly frustrating. You get in cover, grenade either kills you or knocks you back, guys come in from the sides, you step out to try and punch the armoured guy before he one shots you and you get hit by a sniper. It's a badly designed section. It doesn't mean the whole game is badly designed, but there are sections of the game that are very poorly implemented, and it's taken from the experience dramatically for me, to the point that even though I'm passed that point, I couldn't be arsed playing any more of it for a while, so they've ruined what was for the most part a very compelling experience.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,983 ✭✭✭mystic86


    NotorietyH wrote: »
    it was still stupefyingly frustrating. You get in cover, grenade either kills you or knocks you back, guys come in from the sides, you step out to try and punch the armoured guy before he one shots you and you get hit by a sniper. It's a badly designed section.

    I agree with this much.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,789 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    mystic86 wrote: »
    I don't remember any spawning behind me.

    I do remember them flanking me (visibly!) while I'm dealing with other threats.

    Enemies spawn behind you twice in the cargo hold part, when you get to the checkpoint (so when you restart, you are at one end, the boat is tilting and the hold is starting to fill with water). The cargo hold is a box with high metal grill balconies at each end, the first enemies ( four f***ing snipers) spawn on the one right above and behind you (which you wont see, because its behind the camera) on one balcony, and when you move to the other side for different cover and take them out, enemies spawn on the balcony that is now above/behind you. You can see the level here:

    That's not the most irritating combat part in the game though, that award goes to the sandstorm level later on where machine gun mounted cars could hit you, while you were running, with pin point accuracy, despite being in a sandstorm so dense that at the same distance, I could only see them by their gun flare.

    Also I cant be the only one who thinks that it robbed its last level straight from Uncharted 2?
    Both are ancient cities, one with Jungle motive, the other desert, both have over powered enemies (natives and djinn), both having you looking for the lowest part, both end with you running along a pathway breaking up as the city collapses and has you in a scene where one of your NPC friends has a fight with someone who you have to shoot from an awkward position.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 7,160 ✭✭✭tok9


    That's not the most irritating combat part in the game though, that award goes to the sandstorm level later on where machine gun mounted cars could hit you, while you were running, with pin point accuracy, despite being in a sandstorm so dense that at the same distance, I could only see them by their gun flare.

    Ya this is the most frustrating part since they have no problem being able to spot you but it was impossible to see them.

    Also why was there so little stealth in the game? Lets take the ball room for example. What was the point in making you think you could do it silently by placing the first easy target but then having to go all out action!? Having the choice to go all out or with stealth would have been nice.
    Also I cant be the only one who thinks that it robbed its last level straight from Uncharted 2?
    Both are ancient cities, one with Jungle motive, the other desert, both have over powered enemies (natives and djinn), both having you looking for the lowest part, both end with you running along a pathway breaking up as the city collapses and has you in a scene where one of your NPC friends has a fight with someone who you have to shoot from an awkward position.


    The more I think about it the more I remember how awesome UC2 was and I agree with the above. I think it's fair to say that a lot of UC3 is very similiar to UC2.

    That said it is still well worth playing and one of the most enjoyable games I've played so far this year but if there is a UC4, they definitely need change it up a bit.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,983 ✭✭✭mystic86


    I'm hearing these complaints in the last couple of posts and I'm starting to agree with previous posters who say people are simply giving out as it was 'too hard' as opposed to 'level design'... Guys spawn in the balcony above you, so what?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,509 ✭✭✭NotorietyH


    mystic86 wrote: »
    I'm hearing these complaints in the last couple of posts and I'm starting to agree with previous posters who say people are simply giving out as it was 'too hard' as opposed to 'level design'... Guys spawn in the balcony above you, so what?

    We're not saying it's too hard, I don't know how many more times I can say it. We're saying it's the wrong kind of hard. The guys aren't spawning on the balcony, they're spawning behind you, put of sight and killing you before you can see them half the time, rendering cover (the main focus of the combat in the game) pointless. It's cheap, lazy, game design.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,983 ✭✭✭mystic86


    NotorietyH wrote: »
    We're not saying it's too hard, I don't know how many more times I can say it. We're saying it's the wrong kind of hard. The guys aren't spawning on the balcony, they're spawning behind you, put of sight and killing you before you can see them half the time, rendering cover (the main focus of the combat in the game) pointless. It's cheap, lazy, game design.

    if cover is the main focus of the combat in the game as you say then why would you call it cheap and lazy for naughty dog to make these situations as you are describing?? incompetent I could understand but it's not cheap and lazy if that's not what they intended, if what they intended was something different.

    anyway, I don't remember guys spawning behind me at all tbh! I'll look out for it in my next playthrough, but I really didn't find it a problem.

    I don't understand why a few difficult scenarios in the games, whether the cause be 'too hard' or bad design, is ruining the experience so much for people.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,835 ✭✭✭✭cloud493


    You notice the laser sight dots soon as they spawn. You should notice them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,509 ✭✭✭NotorietyH


    mystic86 wrote: »
    if cover is the main focus of the combat in the game as you say then why would you call it cheap and lazy for naughty dog to make these situations as you are describing?? incompetent I could understand but it's not cheap and lazy if that's not what they intended,

    I said they made taking cover pointless, and actually punished you for doing so, in their cover based shooter. It's contradicting the whole way you've been taught to play Uncharted for 3 games now, it's so counter intuitive it's completely jarring, and poorly implemented. We're not making up that they have enemies spawn behind you. It is lazy game design that they couldn't think of an interesting and challenging way to approach the combat in that section and instead just throw a lot of **** at you and make it frustrating, and just dumb luck if you manage to make it through. You might turn around at just the right moment when a guy spawns behind you or to the side. Or of course you might turn around expecting a guy to have spawned behind you and get shot in the back by a shotgun armoured guy or a sniper. That whole section was a dice roll. When I got through it eventually I didn't feel any sense of achievement or relief, because I felt like I had nothing to do with it, it was all put of my control. That's bad game design to me, taking that sense of power and control away from the player.
    cloud493 wrote: »
    You notice the laser sight dots soon as they spawn. You should notice them.

    We're not talking about the snipers. We're talking about all the guys that spawn on the ground level, the level that Drake is on.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,983 ✭✭✭mystic86


    NotorietyH wrote: »
    just throw a lot of **** at you and make it frustrating, and just dumb luck if you manage to make it through. You might turn around at just the right moment when a guy spawns behind you or to the side. Or of course you might turn around expecting a guy to have spawned behind you and get shot in the back by a shotgun armoured guy or a sniper. That whole section was a dice roll. When I got through it eventually I didn't feel any sense of achievement or relief, because I felt like I had nothing to do with it, it was all put of my control. That's bad game design to me, taking that sense of power and control away from the player.

    Can't say I felt the same, I definitely felt in control and a sense of achievement and didn't feel it was luck... felt every time I attempted it I got better and better just like it should be, just at a higher/tougher level than normal.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,835 ✭✭✭✭cloud493


    Well you can hear them firing. Or by then you've assumed, as should most people 'Oh I bet more guys will be coming in like they do in every Uncharted combat encounter'


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,509 ✭✭✭NotorietyH


    cloud493 wrote: »
    Well you can hear them firing. Or by then you've assumed, as should most people 'Oh I bet more guys will be coming in like they do in every Uncharted combat encounter'

    Yes I'm not stupid. But the problem is you can't move because you have snipers, armoured guys with shotguns, and pinpoint accurate grenades that will kill you instantly the second you leave cover, so you just get shot in the back, and if you're lucky you turn around in time to take them out but armoured guy has crept around the corner and one shots to with his shotgun. And in most Uncharted encounters the don't have enemies come in directly behind you where you've entered the room, which is kinda the point we're making.
    mystic86 wrote: »
    Can't say I felt the same, I definitely felt in control and a sense of achievement and didn't feel it was luck... felt every time I attempted it I got better and better just like it should be, just at a higher/tougher level than normal.

    It just left me frustrated, to the point where I've taken the game out of the PS3 three times now with no intention of going back to it for weeks, so that's bad game design in my opinion anyway. Games shouldn't feel like a chore.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,932 ✭✭✭YouSavedMyLife


    Wow its nice to see people actually agreeing with me on this subject :rolleyes:

    In that ballroom section they DO spawn behind you when you walk down into the centre area infront of the stage, and thats fine. If i was fighting guys infront of me and they spawned behind me while i was in combat then yeah it would feel cheap. But that doesnt happen. If they spawned behind me and instantly blew my head off then yeah it would feel cheap. But that doesnt happen. They spawn and there is ample time to get to cover. I died a few times on this section but i adapted and it wasnt blind luck that i passed this section.

    There is a Tau sniper pistol on the stage area for dealing with the snipers. Kill the snipers first and all the lightly armoured guys. The heavies walk way to slow and use shotguns which have very limited range so you just avoid them. After i took out the snipers and felt my postion at the crates was compromised because of the heavies moving in i relocated. Ran around the left handside and underneath to where i entered the ballroom as there is a **** load of cover and loads of distance between you and the heavies. IF you stand behind the crates and not move from cover then you deserve to die.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,405 ✭✭✭gizmo


    mystic86 wrote: »
    I'm hearing these complaints in the last couple of posts and I'm starting to agree with previous posters who say people are simply giving out as it was 'too hard' as opposed to 'level design'... Guys spawn in the balcony above you, so what?
    Yet not three posts previous to this you said this? :confused:

    To those others who reject the notion that there are some bad design decisions made throughout the game, especially with regard to combat, care to address any of the points I made above and offer a counter argument?


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,983 ✭✭✭mystic86


    gizmo wrote: »
    Yet not three posts previous to this you said this? :confused:

    To those others who reject the notion that there are some bad design decisions made throughout the game, especially with regard to combat, care to address any of the points I made above and offer a counter argument?

    yes but the complaints made following that post didn't stack up with that, just sounded like people found it too difficult.

    It was poorly designed, but not to the extent people are making it out to be and those people are/were coming across like finding it too hard was the problem really.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,405 ✭✭✭gizmo


    mystic86 wrote: »
    yes but the complaints made following that post didn't stack up with that, just sounded like people found it too difficult.

    It was poorly designed, but not to the extent people are making it out to be and those people are/were coming across like finding it too hard was the problem really.
    Well to add a bit more weight to them, the part Mark Hamill mentioned on the boat was another example of awful enemy placement/spawning so I'd have to agree with him there. Once the water beings pumping in you're confronted with two regular enemies and an armored enemy on the ground level. The most efficient way to tackle these opponents is, of course, to use the cover in front of you. However in the process of doing so and taking out the enemies, the snipers spawn above and behind you and begin firing down. Remember, this all happens while the water level in the room is rising.

    Same goes for the sandstorm part, while I have no problem with the jeeps being there and providing heavy fire if approached, the fact that they could mow you down from a considerable distance even though you couldn't see them was ridiculous. Do remember this is on top of two Tau equipped enemies whose lasers are sweeping the area and a grenade launcher enemy on the other side. All of whom share the eagle eye vision of their jeep driving companion.

    As for the stealth comment, well I didn't really have an issue with the stealth sections per say, my gripe was the punishment for "failing" these arbitrarily designated areas. Case in point, outside the temple in Syria, I carefully worked my way through the map, taking out all the guards from behind silently. Get to the end and boom, no cutscene. So I wander around and eventually spot a guard in a tower close to where you enter the area. I then creep back across the map, climb up the wall and into the room he's in, sneak up from behind, hit the attack button as per usual and Drake clocks him in the back of the head rather than doing a takedown. After said punch connects I realise what has happened, and follow it up with two or three more swift punches. The enemy doesn't make a sound, is in a continual state of staggering or being hit and is down a few seconds later. But no, the game has now decided that he has alerted his mates all over the area and soon you have more guards spawning at various points around the map complete with two armored enemies, all of whom know exactly where you are.

    This is not hard. This is bad design.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,160 ✭✭✭tok9


    The game is still very good but it has to be said that they threw stealth out the window for this one! I don't remember any section which could be completed through stealth.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,509 ✭✭✭NotorietyH


    In that ballroom section they DO spawn behind you when you walk down into the centre area infront of the stage, and thats fine. If i was fighting guys infront of me and they spawned behind me while i was in combat then yeah it would feel cheap.

    Well that's exactly what happened me, several times, so it did feel cheap.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,789 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    mystic86 wrote: »
    I'm hearing these complaints in the last couple of posts and I'm starting to agree with previous posters who say people are simply giving out as it was 'too hard' as opposed to 'level design'... Guys spawn in the balcony above you, so what?

    Too hard? I rented it on a Friday night and had it cleared on Sunday morning. It wasn't hard, it was cheap, you had to play through each set piece multiple times in order to learn where the enemies would spawn.
    Well you can hear them firing.

    How can you tell that the gunshot you just heard is coming from someone who spawned off screen, when you hearing the gunshots of everyone else in front of you?
    Or by then you've assumed, as should most people 'Oh I bet more guys will be coming in like they do in every Uncharted combat encounter'

    We shouldn't complain about bad or cheap combat mechanics because, at this stage, we should expect them?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,437 ✭✭✭Josey Wales


    I got Uncharted 3 for Christmas and managed to play about a half an hour earlier today. It certainly plays like more Uncharted. No bad thing.

    The only thing I was impressed with was the rooftop chase at the beginning. Obviously it looks amazing. The animation and interesting camera angles make it looks gorgeous. But I just found it so frustrating to actually play. I died so many times during because I chose the wrong way to turn. There is hardly any indication of what way to go and you end up having to guess. This meant that the flow of the whole sequence was so broken up by me having to redo sections that the power of it was lost.

    I hope that any similar sections to come work better.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,930 ✭✭✭✭Zero-Cool


    Just finished this last night. The levels were absolutely epic but some cheap gameplay fighting enemies. Missing something from U2. I only paid 25 quid for it and glad I did, brilliant experience but won't be playing through it again, gonna trade it while I can get a good price.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,565 ✭✭✭✭noodler


    I have just gotten past the Syria section.

    Have to say I am disappointed.

    The acting, humour etc is still top notch but the story so far is yawn and more importantly the gunplay is absolutely awful.

    They seem to have tried to tweak something from U2 and it is wrecking the fun out of kill hordes.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 541 ✭✭✭Vorrtexx


    noodler wrote: »
    I have just gotten past the Syria section.

    Have to say I am disappointed.

    The acting, humour etc is still top notch but the story so far is yawn and more importantly the gunplay is absolutely awful.

    They seem to have tried to tweak something from U2 and it is wrecking the fun out of kill hordes.

    There's supposed to be some sort of "Alternate Aim Settings" in camera options that you can turn on since the latest patch if you haven't tried it.

    Aiming felt a little off when I played through it prior to the patch.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    sheehy83 wrote: »
    Just finished this last night. The levels were absolutely epic but some cheap gameplay fighting enemies. Missing something from U2. I only paid 25 quid for it and glad I did

    I traded it for a good price as soon as I finished it too. I found it entertaining, but it was frustrating in parts, and had a slew of design flaws and cheap AI and spawning, particularly in a lot of the sections mentioned here like the ballroom, sandstorm, etc. I honestly couldn't wait to be done with it, which was a disappointment, having enjoyed the other 2 so much.

    You run the risk of getting a lot of criticism for expressing negative opinions about a game with as hardcore a following as uncharted, but as a neutral observer it was clear that number 2 was the pinnacle of the series. That one didnt feel like its flaws were getting in the way of enjoying the game. Rushed and/or lazy development and an ok but not fantastic story held this one back a little.


  • Advertisement
Advertisement