Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 - Mod Note 4153

danniemcq · 07-12-2011 12:46PM

eldwaro wrote: »

we can appeal....

i think two straight reds have been rescinded this year...i could be wrong?

the video footage shows it was a pretty good tackle...

cant help but feel pictures like this don't help his case....

like that does look a nasty nasty tackle...so i dunno

it does look bad from this picture but when you look at the video evidence it doesn't, whats needed is a photo from the same angle but a fraction of a second before hand when he makes contact with the ball. it almost seemed to me in the video (although it was a stream i was watching) that his legs bounced after the initial contact with the ball.

danniemcq · 07-12-2011 12:48PM

rarnes1 wrote: »

I think we can cope without a holding mid v QPR tbh.

yeah thats it Jinx us!

Mr Alan · 07-12-2011 12:53PM

No point appealling.

The FA will just say that there was excessive force & the ban will stand.

While I think it was never a red, I can see why, in the modern game which seems designed specifically for soft cock pansys, the ref saw it the way he did.

I'm now fully of the view, "if you can't beat em, join em". Bellamy should have gone down after Dempsey threw his head into him.

Chucky the tree · 07-12-2011 12:53PM

rarnes1 wrote: »

I think we can cope without a holding mid v QPR tbh.

Looking at the performances with a holding midfielder against Swansea and Norwich I'm not that confident. Having two central midfielders with one of them being Henderson just scares me.

El Inho · 07-12-2011 12:57PM

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Looking at the performances with a holding midfielder against Swansea and Norwich I'm not that confident. Having two central midfielders with one of them being Henderson just scares me.

thats bang outta order...

henderson has put in some solid shifts lately

Turtyturd · 07-12-2011 12:59PM

eldwaro wrote: »

and im sure we are....were still a very big club and very attractive :P

Really???

I am all for defending the players and club but you have to draw a line.:pac:

VW 1 · 07-12-2011 01:02PM

eldwaro wrote: »

thats bang outta order...

henderson has put in some solid shifts lately

Very much agree, since his move into the centre (why he was out on the right I have no idea) he has looked solid and I wouldnt see a problem with him playing in a two man midfield. He doesnt give the ball away often and can pick a pass, even if he lacks slightly on the defensive side of things.

Definitely looks like he has a bit about him, he was one of the top chance creators in the league last year playing in a Sunderland team, he can only do better with the likes of Bellamy and Suarez making clever runs in front of him to pick out.

Chucky the tree · 07-12-2011 01:10PM

eldwaro wrote: »

thats bang outta order...

henderson has put in some solid shifts lately

He's far too soft. Some of his attempted tackles against fulham were terrible. He's done well going forward but he needs to hugely improve defensively to be relied on to be part of a two man midfield especially when the other midfielder is Adam. Henderson should be playing the advanced role like Gerrard did for us to get the best out of him.

El Inho · 07-12-2011 01:28PM

Turtyturd wrote: »

Really???

I am all for defending the players and club but you have to draw a line.:pac:

this point is not so "bang outta order"

Vudgie · 07-12-2011 01:36PM

What was noticable about Henderson against Fulham was how vocal he was in the middle in terms of looking for the ball. I focused on him a few times when he moved in side and he really seemed like a different guy in terms of confidence, looking for the ball, showing displeasure at not getting the ball.

I would share the view that he may be lacking defensively however hopefully we can get on top in our upcoming matches to avoid needing an out and out tackler like Spearing (we haven't much option anyway by the looks of things).

Our striking options, particuarly with the threat of a lengthy Suarez ban, worry me just as much at the moment to be honest.

Crazy Horse 6 · 07-12-2011 01:52PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

No point appealling.

The FA will just say that there was excessive force & the ban will stand.

While I think it was never a red, I can see why, in the modern game which seems designed specifically for soft cock pansys, the ref saw it the way he did.

I'm now fully of the view, "if you can't beat em, join em". Bellamy should have gone down after Dempsey threw his head into him.

That's the way the game has gone tbh. Some of the red cards being handed out these days are a joke. It's got to the stage where they should just go ahead and ban challanging for the ball at all.

Crazy Horse 6 · 07-12-2011 01:54PM

eldwaro wrote: »

thats bang outta order...

henderson has put in some solid shifts lately

Henderson is coming along just fine tbh.

Leiva · 07-12-2011 02:00PM

Crazy Horse 6 wrote: »

Henderson is coming along just fine tbh.

Out wide he is wasted/useless.

Whenever he comes central he produces .

Kennnys responsibility now if you ask me .

Tusky · 07-12-2011 02:06PM

Henderson's effort has impressed me in recent games - as has his touch and passing at times. I never thought he was a bad player, just wasnt sure where fit into our team. He's wasted on the right but I wouldn't trust him in a 2 man midfield. Considering there was so many holes to fill in the squad during the summer, why did we buy someone that doesnt appear to fill any of them?

We still need a right winger and arguably we still need a central midfielder. He may prove me wrong and improve the defensive side of his game, but at the moment he rarely looks like winning the ball back. I commend his recent effort though and he has a great touch/bit of class about him.

danniemcq · 07-12-2011 02:09PM

its crazy how the mood of this forum changes depending on a weekend result, the week after chelsea compared to this week is crazy in both peoples attitudes and opinions.

we better have a run before christmas or this will be a very depressing forum over the festive period!

YouTookMyName · 07-12-2011 02:30PM

danniemcq wrote: »

its crazy how the mood of this forum changes depending on a weekend result, the week after chelsea compared to this week is crazy in both peoples attitudes and opinions.

What else would you expect, a good win and we're all happy out and drugged up on LFC love.

A loss and everyones a wanker and we hate all referees/opposite keepers/andy carroll/woodwork.

Tusky · 07-12-2011 02:31PM

danniemcq wrote: »

its crazy how the mood of this forum changes depending on a weekend result, the week after chelsea compared to this week is crazy in both peoples attitudes and opinions.

we better have a run before christmas or this will be a very depressing forum over the festive period!

In fairness, I and many others were chuffed after those results mainly because we felt that we were finally putting a run of form together. But after the games against Chelsea and Man City, I said that there was no point in getting results like those if we go and lose against Fulham, so its just so frustrating and disappointing to see us do just that. It doesnt feel like we have made progress, as we are still raising our game against the big teams but falling flat against the lesser teams.

Kess73 · 07-12-2011 02:34PM

danniemcq wrote: »

its crazy how the mood of this forum changes depending on a weekend result, the week after chelsea compared to this week is crazy in both peoples attitudes and opinions.

we better have a run before christmas or this will be a very depressing forum over the festive period!

To be fair people have been saying since the last transfer window that we look to be light in terms of genuine quality/steel etc in a few positions. Mostly CM, RW/RM, CB, and for some up front.

Injuries, suspensions, and lack of form amongst some of the current squad is only further highlighting how the squad is a work in progress and that there is some bit to go yet to making the team a consistent force.

Tusky · 07-12-2011 02:40PM

Kess73 wrote: »

To be fair people have been saying since the last transfer window that we look to be light in terms of genuine quality/steel etc in a few positions. Mostly CM, RW/RM, CB, and for some up front.

Injuries, suspensions, and lack of form amongst some of the current squad is only further highlighting how the squad is a work in progress and that there is some bit to go yet to making the team a consistent force.

Indeed - we still need someone to make the RM/RW spot their own and I cant see it being Kuyt/Bellamy/Henderson. And we arguably still need someone for the LW spot unless there is a massive improvement in Downing. We still need a centre forward who will score goals consistently. And finally, I still think we need another quality player in CM also.

Kess73 · 07-12-2011 02:45PM

Tusky wrote: »

Indeed - we still need someone to make the RM/RW spot their own and I cant see it being Kuyt/Bellamy/Henderson. And we arguably still need someone for the LW spot unless there is a massive improvement in Downing. And finally, we still need a centre forward who will score goals consistently. I still think we need another quality player in CM also.

For me the three slots that need to be filled are the right wing, centre midfield and centre back, with quality players bought for each slot.

I think that with the attackers we currently have that we would get a hell of a lot more goals than now if we had genuine quality in the three positions I mentioned. A new striker that would bang in goals would be nice, but I would be surprised to see one come in January (or next summer) if we don't move one one or two of what we have first.

Tusky · 07-12-2011 02:49PM

Kess73 wrote: »

For me the three slots that need to be filled are the right wing, centre midfield and centre back, with quality players bought for each slot.

I think that with the attackers we currently have that we would get a hell of a lot more goals than now if we had genuine quality in the three positions I mentioned. A new striker that would bang in goals would be nice, but I would be surprised to see one come in January (or next summer) if we don't move one one or two of what we have first.

Considering we are so good defensively at the moment and so weak in attack, I think we need to focus on the attacking positions. Agger and Skrtel is working as a combo, Carroll and Suarez definitely isnt. I would love another quality CB (hopefully thats what Coates will be) but I would prefer a striker. I'm more-so talking about summer rather than January though. Carroll should be given until then to show some promise.

mayordenis · 07-12-2011 02:51PM

Kess73 wrote: »

For me the three slots that need to be filled are the right wing, centre midfield and centre back, with quality players bought for each slot.

I think that with the attackers we currently have that we would get a hell of a lot more goals than now if we had genuine quality in the three positions I mentioned. A new striker that would bang in goals would be nice, but I would be surprised to see one come in January (or next summer) if we don't move one one or two of what we have first.

we're going to start the scoring in earneast by buying a centre back? It's funny for the last while centre mid and the wings have been our only source of goals, Maxi, Bellamy and Adam really the only ones on the score sheet and I suppose Johnson from the right side too.
A centre forward and centre mid right now are more important than centre back or right wing, we've been making chances, just not been in any way clinical.

killwill · 07-12-2011 03:11PM

Kess73 wrote: »

For me the three slots that need to be filled are the right wing, centre midfield and centre back, with quality players bought for each slot.

I think that with the attackers we currently have that we would get a hell of a lot more goals than now if we had genuine quality in the three positions I mentioned. A new striker that would bang in goals would be nice, but I would be surprised to see one come in January (or next summer) if we don't move one one or two of what we have first.

I would have thought that LFCs weakest position was upfront tbh.
Defensively ye are very hard to break down and the workrate is phenomenal.
Ye are creating chances too but ye don't have a natural goalscorer in the team anymore and that is the biggest issue IMO>

mike65 · 07-12-2011 03:12PM

Conceding is not the issue that ship has been steadied, scoring goals is now the concern. (plus the CM). Need a Shane Long type. No too costly but knows where the goal is.

Kess73 · 07-12-2011 03:13PM

mayordenis wrote: »

we're going to start the scoring in earneast by buying a centre back? It's funny for the last while centre mid and the wings have been our only source of goals, Maxi, Bellamy and Adam really the only ones on the score sheet and I suppose Johnson from the right side too.
A centre forward and centre mid right now are more important than centre back or right wing, we've been making chances, just not been in any way clinical.

My thinking is that if we added genuine quality at CB beside Agger, Genuine quality in the centre that can cover Lucas as well as playing alongside him, and genuine quality out wide then we would have far more in terms of being able to keep possession and also to get the ball to the attackers.

I have probably brought him up a thousand times but a centre back like Hummels would greatly improve upon what we have at present at the back, but he would add a hell of a lot to our attacking play as well. For my money we have nobody in the team right now that can pass the ball as well as Hummels, and he has shown over the past few seasons just how good he is at coming out of defence into the midfield area and spraying the ball about. That's the kind of step up in quality I am talking about at CB, and not just getting a CB who is just a bit better than Skrtel or Carragher.

Our midfield badly needs steel, aggression and power/drive in attack. There are a number of players who could give us the best of both worlds in that they are excellent at the defensive side but also technically good to excellent with good attacking skills. That's what I would want us to get in the centre in January.

I do think our right flank is weak, generally most of our attacks on that flank come from whichever full back is playing, call me old fashioned but I would kinda like to see a RW/RM who is actually a genuine threat to the other team with the fullback attacking ability being a bonus on top of that threat. Hell if a quality LW/LM was available I would go down that route and put Downing on the right.

I really do see what you and others are saying about wanting to see either a centre forward or out and out striker come in. But as long as we have Carroll, Suarez, and Kuyt in the mix, especially Carroll as I think his price tag versus results comes into play here, I don't think the owners would be too pleased to splash out decent money until someone gets moved on. I would like to see a quality goal getter come in, but for the reason I just gave I think it unlikely and as such I think strengthening with genuine quality in the positions I mentioned would improve the team to such a degree that our current attackers would have to benefit. At least that would be my hope anyway.

Kess73 · 07-12-2011 03:17PM

killwill wrote: »

I would have thought that LFCs weakest position was upfront tbh.
Defensively ye are very hard to break down and the workrate is phenomenal.
Ye are creating chances too but ye don't have a natural goalscorer in the team anymore and that is the biggest issue IMO>

mike65 wrote: »

Conceding is not the issue that ship has been steadied, scoring goals is now the concern. (plus the CM). Need a Shane Long type. No too costly but knows where the goal is.

No arguement about the conversion of chances being a big problem. However do either of you think a finisher, even a cheap one, would be brought in if Carroll stays?

I'm not trying to start a Carroll bashing session here, but I do think that he would be seen as a spare wheel by the owners if Kenny wanted to bring in another striker.

VW 1 · 07-12-2011 03:18PM

mike65 wrote: »

Conceding is not the issue that ship has been steadied, scoring goals is now the concern. (plus the CM). Need a Shane Long type. No too costly but knows where the goal is.

Eden Hazard?

*Runs away and waits for Kess*

Tusky · 07-12-2011 03:25PM

Kess73 wrote: »

My thinking is that if we added genuine quality at CB beside Agger, Genuine quality in the centre that can cover Lucas as well as playing alongside him, and genuine quality out wide then we would have far more in terms of being able to keep possession and also to get the ball to the attackers.

I have probably brought him up a thousand times but a centre back like Hummels would greatly improve upon what we have at present at the back, but he would add a hell of a lot to our attacking play as well. For my money we have nobody in the team right now that can pass the ball as well as Hummels, and he has shown over the past few seasons just how good he is at coming out of defence into the midfield area and spraying the ball about. That's the kind of step up in quality I am talking about at CB, and not just getting a CB who is just a bit better than Skrtel or Carragher.

Our midfield badly needs steel, aggression and power/drive in attack. There are a number of players who could give us the best of both worlds in that they are excellent at the defensive side but also technically good to excellent with good attacking skills. That's what I would want us to get in the centre in January.

I do think our right flank is weak, generally most of our attacks on that flank come from whichever full back is playing, call me old fashioned but I would kinda like to see a RW/RM who is actually a genuine threat to the other team with the fullback attacking ability being a bonus on top of that threat. Hell if a quality LW/LM was available I would go down that route and put Downing on the right.

I really do see what you and others are saying about wanting to see either a centre forward or out and out striker come in. But as long as we have Carroll, Suarez, and Kuyt in the mix, especially Carroll as I think his price tag versus results comes into play here, I don't think the owners would be too pleased to splash out decent money until someone gets moved on. I would like to see a quality goal getter come in, but for the reason I just gave I think it unlikely and as such I think strengthening with genuine quality in the positions I mentioned would improve the team to such a degree that our current attackers would have to benefit. At least that would be my hope anyway.

I see what you're saying but it just seems to be an extremely strange way to go about things. At the moment we have 2 good centre backs and have one of the best defensive records in the league. We also have strikers who are not converting chances or playing well together. How in the world can a new center back be a priority with that in mind? In regards to wingers, of course I'd love a couple of quality ones - but we are still creating chances at the moment, we are just not taking them. Our biggest problem is that we dont have a clinical goal scoring center forward.

Kess73 · 07-12-2011 03:35PM

Tusky wrote: »

I see what you're saying but it just seems to be an extremely strange way tog go about things. At the moment we have 2 good center books and have one of the best defensive records in the league. We also have strikers who are not converting chances or playing well together. How in the world can a new center back be a priority with that in mind? In regards to wingers, of course I'd love a couple of quality ones - but we are still creating chances at the moment, we are just not taking them. Our biggest problem is that we dont have a clinical goal scoring center forward.

Well if a goal scorer is the want, then there is a Carroll shaped problem in the way of that methinks.

With regards to the centre back position, I did say that it was only a certain style of CB, and preferably the one I mentioned, that I would want to see come in, and not just a quality stopper/blocker. That particular CB would allow us to play a higher line, and would add passing ability that would put the likes of Agger and Adam to shame in our team.

A quality winger who is a genuine goal threat as well as a regular getter of assists/secondary assists would be a massive step up on what we have, and would lessen the load on our front men and by being a goal threat he would create more space for our forwards as defenders would be drawn to the winger.

But if Carroll was sold in January, then I would want to see a quality striker become the first target we go after, but if Carroll is not sold then I would go with my other choices to greatly strengthen the team as an overall unit and provide other avenues of threat.

Kess73 · 07-12-2011 03:36PM

VW 1 wrote: »

Eden Hazard?

*Runs away and waits for Kess*

Do you know how difficult it is for me to talk about right wingers and not bring him into the convo?

Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 - Mod Note 4153

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