Man drinks 8 pints, kills another in crash, judge thinks alcohol isn't a factor...

working fool · 07-12-2011 11:16AM

Does this not mirror the actions of a well know politician a few years back ???

He got off pretty lightly too
The fact this person had 25000€ disposable income wouldent have hurt him either ???

phil1nj · 07-12-2011 11:18AM

Lord Trollington wrote: »

Is 8 pints enough to make you drive the wrong way down the the road, I don't think it is to be honest.
.

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Oh my sweet Jesus. I cannot believe that someone would put this in a reply, even in AH

rich.d.berry · 07-12-2011 11:45AM

I knew Manny, he worked as a shop assistant in Kildare and was very popular. Always friendly and good banter with customers. A young man with loads of potential who is sorely missed.

I was at his funeral along with about 600 other people, maybe more. The church was packed and there were over a hundred more accommodated in an adjoining hall.

What amazed me most is that his mother stood up and spoke saying that she had already forgiven Cunningham for the death of her son. I wonder if he'll ever be able to forgive himself. The €25,000 token of remorse he paid can never make up for the lost life, and I'm sure he knows it.

personally I see no reason for him to be jailed. He's not a danger to society, he doesn't need any rehabilitation. I doubt that he will ever drink and drive again. If he does, then chuck him in jail and ban him for life. Ruining his life won't bring back Manny.

Liam Byrne · 07-12-2011 11:50AM

Lord Trollington wrote: »

gosuckonalemon wrote: »

[SIZE="3"]yes[/SIZE]

If your 16 it probably is, in which case you shouldn't be driving in the first place.

Sooooo many things wrong with this post that I don't know where to start!

1) macho bravado bull****
2) at 16 you shouldn't be drinking either, so what they should & shouldn't be doing doesn't come into it

suicide_circus · 07-12-2011 11:51AM

I'm no Kavanagh QC but does a judgment like this not create a shockingly dangerous precedent for future fatal drink driving cases?

homerjay2005 · 07-12-2011 11:52AM

there has to be something missing from that ruling, it makes zero sense and leaves future cases open for some really dogy appeals.

its an awful precident. if you are over the limit and a death occurs due to a mistake you make while driving the car, you should be put in jail for 10 years. its not acceptable to say he was a nice fellow and all this, a message has to go out that people cannot get away with this.

somebody will read about this and get into a car sometime soon with 8 pints in him. "sure it will be grand".

sf80 · 07-12-2011 11:58AM

I got the impression that the judge was suggesting something else caused the guy to do what he did (depression, madness whatever), that it wasn't just a case of a drink related accident.

OurLadyofKnock · 07-12-2011 12:01PM

Why isn't "Cunningham's" full name mentioned?

Keith186 · 07-12-2011 12:05PM

Are Judge Nolan and Mr. Cunningham best friends?

Or maybe Mr. Cunningham isn't working class enough to put in jail.

OurLadyofKnock · 07-12-2011 12:07PM

Keith186 wrote: »

Are Judge Nolan and Mr. Cunningham best friends?

Or maybe Mr. Cunningham isn't working class enough to put in jail.

Or is Cunningham active in local GAA circles or something. Again, why is this killer's name hidden?

I don't get this. Surely the community and nation must be made aware of this danger to the community and other communities?

Having his identity hidden just compounds the sheer injustice of the decision, and increased revulsion of the judge's mindset.

OurLadyofKnock · 07-12-2011 12:17PM

What amazed me most is that his mother stood up and spoke saying that she had already forgiven Cunningham for the death of her son. I wonder if he'll ever be able to forgive himself.

Not if he is a sociopath-psychopath. Won't bother him one single bit. Not his problem...

bluto63 · 07-12-2011 12:22PM

phil1nj wrote: »

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Oh my sweet Jesus. I cannot believe that someone would put this in a reply, even in AH

Well, think about it. If I was to ever get behind the wheel after 8 pints, I'd be more than aware I've had 8 pints. I'd be paying as much attention as possible because I know I'm a danger. To simply drift to the other side of the road doesn't seem like the full story to me.

phil1nj · 07-12-2011 12:28PM

bluto63 wrote: »

Well, think about it. If I was to ever get behind the wheel after 8 pints, I'd be more than aware I've had 8 pints. I'd be paying as much attention as possible because I know I'm a danger. To simply drift to the other side of the road doesn't seem like the full story to me.

Of course you would because we all know that excessive alcohol in your system in no way, shape or form impairs your judgement. Hell, you'd probably be a better driver for it.

FOR ****'S SAKE!!!!!

jackal · 07-12-2011 12:29PM

8 Pints, drove down wrong side of the road, killed someone. 0 days spent in prison.

There can be no mitigating circumstances for that sentence. Its a disgrace, and more worrying is the attitude of the judge. Consequences are for the little people obviously, not those who can throw €25,000 at the problem to see it go away.

Fratton Fred · 07-12-2011 12:34PM

rich.d.berry wrote: »

personally I see no reason for him to be jailed. He's not a danger to society, he doesn't need any rehabilitation. I doubt that he will ever drink and drive again. If he does, then chuck him in jail and ban him for life. Ruining his life won't bring back Manny.

The same probably applies to 90% of offenders.

We have laws in this country about drink driving. Cunningham broke those laws and in doing so killed someone. I fail to see why he should be shown leniency.

pickarooney · 07-12-2011 12:41PM

gosuckonalemon wrote: »

Defence counsel Paul Greene said Cunningham had paid €25,000 to the family as a token of his remorse.

And whatever you're having yourself, your honour.

Ray Palmer · 07-12-2011 12:42PM

It comes down to what you think prison is for rehabilitation or punishment. Considering it costs close to 50k to have somebody in prison for a year spending 400k with this guy in prision is it worth it? Is he likely to reoffend?

He won't be driving for a very long time and will probably feel genuine remorse. Versus some guy who is an alcoholic that still drinks.

Anybody who thinks this is unique to the irish justice system is an idiot plain and simple. Nothing unique try and look outside this country once in a while and see how the actual WORLD works.

Frank Black · 07-12-2011 12:53PM

Ray Palmer wrote: »

It comes down to what you think prison is for rehabilitation or punishment. Considering it costs close to 50k to have somebody in prison for a year spending 400k with this guy in prision is it worth it? Is he likely to reoffend?

He won't be driving for a very long time and will probably feel genuine remorse. Versus some guy who is an alcoholic that still drinks.

Anybody who thinks this is unique to the irish justice system is an idiot plain and simple. Nothing unique try and look outside this country once in a while and see how the actual WORLD works.

If it was your parent, sibling, partner or child he killed - would you be as understanding of a non-custodial sentence?

phil1nj · 07-12-2011 12:53PM

Ray Palmer wrote: »

It comes down to what you think prison is for rehabilitation or punishment. Considering it costs close to 50k to have somebody in prison for a year spending 400k with this guy in prision is it worth it? Is he likely to reoffend?

.

My own personal opinion is that prisons should be for punishment first (you break a society's rules, in you go) and rehabilitation second. This guy broke several laws, killed someone as a result and was caught (on this occasion anyway). Therefore a suspended sentance is way too leniant IMHO.

And has been said before, this sets a very dangerous precedant for future drink driving cases that might arise

Danbo! · 07-12-2011 01:25PM

bluto63 wrote: »

Well, think about it. If I was to ever get behind the wheel after 8 pints, I'd be more than aware I've had 8 pints. I'd be paying as much attention as possible because I know I'm a danger. To simply drift to the other side of the road doesn't seem like the full story to me.

You don't just simply drift onto the wrong side of a dual carriageway.

ScumLord · 07-12-2011 01:33PM

The judge doesn't give the drunk drivers excuse so it's hard to say. If the judge thinks drink wasn't a factor then surely the other option is the drunk driver meant to crash into the other car.

It was an accident caused by something or he meant to do it.

Freddie59 · 07-12-2011 02:29PM

Lord Trollington wrote: »

No maybe I wouldn't. To be fair I know nothing of the case or its background, unlike the judge.

As he said the man had been a model citizen up until then. Is 8 pints enough to make you drive the wrong way down the the road, I don't think it is to be honest.

There is probably something else behind it to be honest OP.

It doesn't matter what was behind it, if even there was anything behind it. If he was a 'model citizen' he would not have consumed copious amounts of alcohol.

Some people might be fine if they drank eight pints. Others might be smashed. its obvious here which one it was.

The wider issue appears to be the random nature of Judge's sentencing in Ireland, and the fact that they are, in essence, answerable to no-one.

The minister for Justice should be able to summon that Judge and ask him WTF he was thinking. And have to power to overturn the sentence.

But, sigh, this is Ireland, and sure we couldn't be having that.

Freddie59 · 07-12-2011 02:30PM

black francis wrote: »

If it was your parent, sibling, partner or child he killed - would you be as understanding of a non-custodial sentence?

Well said. The mandatory sentence for that behaviour should be 15 years - without early release.

thirtythirty · 07-12-2011 02:38PM

Judge taking a "meh" attitude to work since the pay cut bill?

I am pie · 07-12-2011 02:40PM

This man voluntarily broke a law which directly resulted in the death of another man. I'm finding it extremely hard to understand why his punishment is not prison.

A stiff custodial sentence should be handed down to deter any other idiots who think they might be alright getting behind the wheel of the car after drinking.

Custodial sentences should be deter all members of the public from dangerously breaking the law.

TinfoilTinman · 07-12-2011 02:43PM

Say the alcohol was not a factor (which it is).

Is it not a whole lot worse that someone who wasn't drunk made such a big mistake while driving?

Why was the judge so soft?

Drink driving is extremely dangerous and stupid but it's much worse if you make those mistakes when not under-the-influence.

Should he not have been harder on him if he believed the alcohol was not a factor?

“I’m not sure Mr Cunningham knew what he was doing. I’m not sure the drink was the cause. I’m not sure that I don’t accept his explanation. It’s very difficult to justly sentence this case,” the judge said.

He sounds a little confused to me, lots of uncertainty.

OurLadyofKnock · 07-12-2011 03:00PM

TinfoilTinman wrote: »

“I’m not sure Mr Cunningham knew what he was doing. I’m not sure the drink was the cause. I’m not sure that I don’t accept his explanation. It’s very difficult to justly sentence this case,” the judge said.

He sounds a little confused to me, lots of uncertainty.

In criminal psychology this is called Word Salad - when a pathologically-minded individual spews out a bewildering array of verbage to confuse and distort the issue. You see politicians using it all the time. Think of Donald Rumsfeld with his "there are known, unknowns..." or BertieAhern with the "creeping Jesus..." speech. Charlie McCreevy is a master of word salad too.

Between the full name of "Cunningham" not being in the media, along with the behaviour of the judge in this case - coupled with the sociopathic concept that MONEY = REMORSE - One could can speculate there is a professional or personal relationship between the judge and "Cunningham" at some level.

This stinks and not just the smell of gargle off "Cunningham" - he is being protected.

Ficheall · 07-12-2011 03:02PM

Danbo! wrote: »

You don't just simply drift onto the wrong side of a dual carriageway.

I'm thanking this because I am imagining Boromir saying it. Feel free not to correct me if that's not how you meant it.

Ray Palmer · 07-12-2011 03:11PM

black francis wrote: »

If it was your parent, sibling, partner or child he killed - would you be as understanding of a non-custodial sentence?

Probably not but that is the point. Just becasue you personally want retribution the judicial system has to weigh up more than personal vegence.

My uncle was killed by a careless driver who was in her 20s and I did not think she should go to jail even though she broke the rules. Neither did his daughter nor son. So yes some of us are not obsessed with vegence. A persons background has a lot to do with the sentence they should get and the bigger impact it will have on society.

There is actually a change in mental states between being a child and adolesent where a child only understands the black an white of rules. When people mature they can rationlise the grey areas. If you see the world in black and white it actually indicates development problems in a personality.

Would anything be gained by having this man in prison? And it will cost 400k to do so doesn't sound reasonable to me.

FutureGuy · 07-12-2011 03:12PM

This type of sh!te wouldn't happen in the UK. They are very strict when dealing with alcohol-fuelled crime...

Oh wait...in the Sun today...

Muslim girl gang who kicked woman in head freed after court hears they were 'not used to drinking'

A FERAL gang of Somalian girls who repeatedly kicked a young woman in the head walked free from court after a judge heard they were "not used to being drunk" because they were Muslim.

The four girls — three sisters and their cousin — were told the charge of actual bodily harm, which carries a maximum sentence of five years, against 22-year-old care worker Rhea Page would normally land them in custody.

But the judge handed the girls suspended sentences after hearing that they were not used to alcohol because their religion does not allow it.

Victim Rhea said Ambaro Maxamed, 24, Ayan Maxamed, 28, and Hibo Maxamed, 24, and their 28-year-old cousin Ifrah Nur screamed "Kill the white s***" while kicking her in the head as she lay motionless on the ground.

The support worker from Leicester was left "black and blue" with bruises and needed hospital treatment following the attack which came as she walked to a taxi rank with her boyfriend.

She was also left with a BALD patch after having her hair yanked out.

It's days like today that I feel sorry for humanity. I'm off to have a few pints and kick the sh!te of someone I have a strong dislike for.

Man drinks 8 pints, kills another in crash, judge thinks alcohol isn't a factor...

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