Unemployed who simply wont move

fret_wimp2 · 05-12-2011 11:32AM #1

Before anyone gets annoyed, i am just asking opinion, and i am not stating that this applies to everyone.

I have many friends back in the west of ireland with college degrees and qualifications. Due to whatever reason they are now unemployed, collecting unemployment benefits.

The majority of these people are mid/late 20's, no family of their own, not married, no mortgate.

They could have a job if they moved to Dublin ( im pretty sure of this), but they wont even look at whats available as they dont want to leave their home town.

These are people with valid skills that are actually in demand but i think their refulal to move to where the work is a refusal to work.

Should there be laws saying that if you have no significant ties ( kids, sick family, mortgate etc etc), and you can get a job in another county you have to take it?

If i decided to stay at home i wouldnt have a job either, but i moved to where the work was, and id do it again if i had to, even if it meant leaving the country.

A scheme that matches people with jobs around the country, rather than just in their area would fill many more jobs, and laws ensuring your unemployment was only available if you cant get a job ANYWHERE would ensure people have to work.

what are your opinions on this?

mickman · 05-12-2011 11:37AM

you cant force a person to move from their home town im afraid

if people wont move for work then they will suffer mentally, physically and financially. its their own choice

fret_wimp2 · 05-12-2011 11:41AM

it is their own choice, but its a choice thats currently costing the state and PAYE workers a lot of money.

Perhaps its just my skued logic to think that if your fit, qualified and have no siginficant ties to an area other than its your comfort zone, then you should realistically move to where the work is.

Mr. Loverman · 05-12-2011 12:04PM

I don't think we should go down the road of forcing people to do anything.

But I do think we should cut off the dole if it is clear people are letting a lifestyle choice (e.g. live in a nice country village) dictate that they remain on the dole.

fret_wimp2 · 05-12-2011 12:06PM

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

I don't think we should go down the road of forcing people to do anything.

But I do think we should cut off the dole if it is clear people are letting a lifestyle choice (e.g. live in a nice country village) dictate that they remain on the dole.

Nicely worded. thats exactly what i meant. Force was a bad word to use on my part.

Yea, limit benefits if there is no legit reason not to move to obtain work. people can then chose to remain, on limited benifits or move to get a job.

mickman · 05-12-2011 12:51PM

we could get the army in to move em!

franco25 · 05-12-2011 03:01PM

Hi

Interesting post made! I know what you are saying but I think it is very easy for people to judge others who are out of work. I am out of work now for three months and my attitude has totally changed. All I can say is €188 a week does not get you far and cutting this is not going to make a difference.

My attitude is that I have been getting interviews - too many rounds of interview for each position if you ask me. I think if I wasn't getting interviews I would be asking the question of were I should relocate!

tenchi-fan · 05-12-2011 03:08PM

It's rotten that you are suggesting that people have their benefits cut because they won't move hundreds of miles away from their family and friends.

That's like saying you're cutting off someone's benefits because there are jobs in Australia and they should emigrate.

In the UK they are considering cutting benefits in certain regions. I.e. people in the North would receive less in benefits than people living in London, because the cost of living is lower.

I suppose cutting benefits in the west would be the fairest option. No doubt you would be against a plan like this, as you want to be able to pick and choose who would be "forced" to work away from home.

I especially resent your use of the term "No significant ties". You're probably referring to young graduates who do not have a family. I'd nearly argue that a family living on benefits are the ones costing the state more money and therefore should be the ones who are obliged to move.

All in all, I'm in favour of a system where taxes are low and social welfare is low.

Your idea that certain people should be discriminated against based on their age or marital status & that their only ties to an area should be their employment is quite disturbing.

franco25 · 05-12-2011 03:17PM

I'd think you easy targeting graduates here! In my job hunting I have become very shocked in what I have seen!

I have good few years experience and have recently graduated from post-grad in the evening. A position is available for optimizing semi-state organisation which is clearly doable with skills acquired during college. However what is on offer here is to pay €50 towards expenses as well as your dole payments. Sorry but I struggle to get this! This country will need graduates to sort out other generations mess imo!

Mrs OBumble · 05-12-2011 03:18PM

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

I don't think we should go down the road of forcing people to do anything.

But I do think we should cut off the dole if it is clear people are letting a lifestyle choice (e.g. live in a nice country village) dictate that they remain on the dole.

Indeed. The labour-economics jargon for this is "absenting yourself from the labour market".

It's a tough one though, especially if it's the labour market that's absented itself from you. For instance if someone had a job with Dell in Limerick, and Dell packed up and left: I wouldn't be in favour of being too toubh on people who'd studied in Limerick, don't have a family or house there, but did work and build a life for themselves.

It's also hard to say what counts as absenting yourself: there are people who living in Galway and to a weekly commute to Dublin, or even the UK, proving that it is possible to live here and work there.

All in all, while I see the OPs point (economics does influence where we life, IMHO) I think it would be too hard to enforce rules.

Toasterspark · 05-12-2011 03:47PM

I'm currently unemployed and living in a rural area. I'm glad that you have such a simplistic view of my life, and that you assume I'm just laying about, doing nothing and hoping someone will call to my door and hand me an employment contract.

They could have a job if they moved to Dublin ( im pretty sure of this)

Yeah, I'm ruling out all those job offers I've got from Dublin. Too much effort. I mean, seriously? In case you hadn't noticed, there is huge unemployment in Ireland right now! I have been applying for jobs and going for interviews every other week and getting nowhere (so far). Almost all of those jobs have been in Dublin. I am not discriminating by location AT ALL.

So, what you're saying is that, instead of applying for jobs and going to interviews, I should move up to Dublin and increase all of my living costs and bills (while on the dole) so I can do the same thing up there? Seems like I'd be haemorrhaging money in that scenario, and I'd still be no further on. Still doing the same thing, but at a greater cost to me.

I know you said that your post doesn't apply to everyone, but nobody I knew that is unemployed wants to be unemployed. I know I certainly don't, especially after spending years studying hard in college.

You sound like you are happily employed in a job, and it's easy to look at people without a job and make silly assumptions. Being unemployed is a bitch and I don't want to be on the dole. Neither does the majority of people.

skelliser · 05-12-2011 03:50PM

Arbeit macht frei

scotty_irish · 05-12-2011 04:08PM

Toasterspark wrote: »

I'm currently unemployed and living in a rural area. I'm glad that you have such a simplistic view of my life, and that you assume I'm just laying about, doing nothing and hoping someone will call to my door and hand me an employment contract.

Yeah, I'm ruling out all those job offers I've got from Dublin. Too much effort. I mean, seriously? In case you hadn't noticed, there is huge unemployment in Ireland right now! I have been applying for jobs and going for interviews every other week and getting nowhere (so far). Almost all of those jobs have been in Dublin. I am not discriminating by location AT ALL.

So, what you're saying is that, instead of applying for jobs and going to interviews, I should move up to Dublin and increase all of my living costs and bills (while on the dole) so I can do the same thing up there? Seems like I'd be haemorrhaging money in that scenario, and I'd still be no further on. Still doing the same thing, but at a greater cost to me.

I know you said that your post doesn't apply to everyone, but nobody I knew that is unemployed wants to be unemployed. I know I certainly don't, especially after spending years studying hard in college.

You sound like you are happily employed in a job, and it's easy to look at people without a job and make silly assumptions. Being unemployed is a bitch and I don't want to be on the dole. Neither does the majority of people.

I'm pretty sure the OP is referring to people only looking for work in their locality. He's not suggesting you move to Dublin, only that people be "encouraged" to look for work away from home.

fret_wimp2 · 05-12-2011 05:45PM

scotty_irish wrote: »

I'm pretty sure the OP is referring to people only looking for work in their locality. He's not suggesting you move to Dublin, only that people be "encouraged" to look for work away from home.

Bingo. I see some people read the title and jumped to conclusions. I know people back west who cannot move due to family commitments and other genuine reasons. Thats fair enough.
But for many its not that they have any particular issue tying them to the region other than "id hate to work in Dublin", or "Im comfortable in my life here".

Im prob harsh, but those are not reasons to sit on the dole, simply because there is no job within driving distance of your home.
Besides, dublin is 2.5 hours drive from my home back west. Roughly 2.5 hours in the train also. If i needed to be back home quicky i can be there in 2.5 hours. Thats not far really.

Perhaps a system whereby each case is judged on the persons filing of a report why they "need" to stay in a location where there are no jobs.
Im sure thats open to abuse also, but im just trying to make a point that a system like that could get a lot of people back working.

Yeah, I'm ruling out all those job offers I've got from Dublin. Too much effort. I mean, seriously? In case you hadn't noticed, there is huge unemployment in Ireland right now! I have been applying for jobs and going for interviews every other week and getting nowhere (so far). Almost all of those jobs have been in Dublin. I am not discriminating by location AT ALL.

yea, there is huge unemployment. and getting people who can work to go find work would lower those numbers a bit. are you saying though you are getting called for interviews but are turning them down if they are in dublin as "its too much effort" ? i must be misunderstanding you as you sound like someone who wants to work and would take an oppertuinity to interview for a job if they got one.

So, what you're saying is that, instead of applying for jobs and going to interviews, I should move up to Dublin and increase all of my living costs and bills (while on the dole) so I can do the same thing up there? Seems like I'd be haemorrhaging money in that scenario, and I'd still be no further on. Still doing the same thing, but at a greater cost to me.

I know you said that your post doesn't apply to everyone, but nobody I knew that is unemployed wants to be unemployed. I know I certainly don't, especially after spending years studying hard in college.

No, not saying that at all. why would you move up here without a job? that would be stupid. Im saying people should take off the blinkers though when looking for jobs. remove the location filter in jobs.ie. my friends look for jobs, but the filter is set to one county in the west, purely because they think they wouldnt enjoy dublin. so sitting at home on the dole is preferable to a paying job in dublin.

you can apply for a job in dublin or anywhere regardless of your current place of residence.

You sound like you are happily employed in a job, and it's easy to look at people without a job and make silly assumptions. Being unemployed is a bitch and I don't want to be on the dole. Neither does the majority of people.

To this i reply that ive been unemployed. I moved to where the work was. my brother was unemployed, he went abroad to where work was. i found it preferable to be working, even if im an hour or two from home, as opposed to being at home wishing i had a job.

ojola · 05-12-2011 05:47PM

fret_wimp2 wrote: »

Before anyone gets annoyed, i am just asking opinion, and i am not stating that this applies to everyone.

I have many friends back in the west of ireland with college degrees and qualifications. Due to whatever reason they are now unemployed, collecting unemployment benefits.

The majority of these people are mid/late 20's, no family of their own, not married, no mortgate.

They could have a job if they moved to Dublin ( im pretty sure of this), but they wont even look at whats available as they dont want to leave their home town.

These are people with valid skills that are actually in demand but i think their refulal to move to where the work is a refusal to work.

Should there be laws saying that if you have no significant ties ( kids, sick family, mortgate etc etc), and you can get a job in another county you have to take it?

If i decided to stay at home i wouldnt have a job either, but i moved to where the work was, and id do it again if i had to, even if it meant leaving the country.

A scheme that matches people with jobs around the country, rather than just in their area would fill many more jobs, and laws ensuring your unemployment was only available if you cant get a job ANYWHERE would ensure people have to work.

what are your opinions on this?

Home town never left home before sound to me as signifact enough of ties.

fret_wimp2 · 05-12-2011 05:58PM

ojola wrote: »

Home town never left home before sound to me as signifact enough of ties.

IMO, just because its your home town is not significant enough ties.

starlit · 05-12-2011 07:36PM

To be honest where I live there is very little work around. Only selective few of low paid and tradesmen jobs are around. If wanting a job near me you have to have years work experience behind you and be very skilled and experienced to fill any kind of job role. In particular specific roles in certain professions like nurses, teachers (which has been curbed), doctors, solicitors are the only viable options of employment but even they are limited. Like secretarial work, business or IT or science or in the area of childcare/social care you need a certain amount of work experience and years behind you before securing any kind of work in my locality making it harder for graduates looking for work.

Its hard enough for secondary and college students to get part time work here too so making it harder for graduates to find work around my area whether qualified, not experienced or not experienced enough despite having some work experience still ins't enough for some employers so means having to go where the work is in the cities in particular Dublin otherwise emigration is the next and only option.

Even still if graduates or experienced people set up a business of their own that has its own issues trying to sustain itself in this economic climate so what is left?? Going back to Education or the social welfare?

Nolanger · 05-12-2011 09:24PM

fret_wimp2 wrote: »

what are your opinions on this?

They're not supposed to be claiming welfare if there are no jobs available in their area.

Toasterspark · 05-12-2011 11:44PM

The 'too much effort' remark was sarcasm, though it doesn't travel well in text form. Sorry for the confusion. I'm searching tirelessly for jobs all the time.

I am looking for work all over the country - definitely not limiting myself to a particular town/city/county. I just find it incredibly hard to believe that people that have gone on to third level education and worked hard for their qualifications, only to vegetate in their home towns afterward. Anyone I know definitely doesn't/wouldn't do that.

Im saying people should take off the blinkers though when looking for jobs. remove the location filter in jobs.ie. my friends look for jobs, but the filter is set to one county in the west, purely because they think they wouldnt enjoy dublin. so sitting at home on the dole is preferable to a paying job in dublin.

I'd honestly be shocked by that, and I'd imagine it's the exception rather than the rule. Jobs are sparse in the West at the best of times, not to mind in a recession. I'd personally love to stay in the West, but realistically the work is in Dublin and that's where I'm applying for work. Isn't that a given? I see no harm in filtering the job search to a specific county - but after you get a job somewhere. I'll always have an eye open for jobs near home but I'd see having ANY job as the main priority. I'd imagine the majority of people would think the same as me.

c0rk3r · 06-12-2011 02:15PM

fret_wimp2 wrote: »

Before anyone gets annoyed, i am just asking opinion, and i am not stating that this applies to everyone.

Its a sensitive issue and when you speak in generalities, of a scheme which you want to introduce to wider society based on a small cohort of your friends then you're undoubtably going to agitate alot of people. You need to be clear, concise, specific and informed which im afraid you are not.

fret_wimp2 wrote:

Should there be laws saying that if you have no significant ties ( kids, sick family, mortgate etc etc), and you can get a job in another county you have to take it?

No.

fret_wimp2 wrote:

A scheme that matches people with jobs around the country, rather than just in their area would fill many more jobs, and laws ensuring your unemployment was only available if you cant get a job ANYWHERE would ensure people have to work.

Absolutely not.

fret_wimp2 · 06-12-2011 02:20PM

wow! Thanks for that c0rk3r. Dont feel like clarifying your views at all? simple NO is all your offering?

Are you perhaps unemployed, whereby this would directly affect you or do you just think it a bad idea? if so, why?

Just to nail down a few points.

Fact: country is up the wazoo.
Fact: PAYE workers are paying for it.
Fact: more PAYE Workers = more taxes raised.
Fact: More unemployed = more outgoings in benefits and less to fix the country.
Fact: theres more to this than just making people up sticks and work somewhere else, hense the discussion.

Mrs OBumble · 06-12-2011 02:24PM

doovdela wrote: »

To be honest where I live there is very little work around. .. Going back to Education or the social welfare?

I don't want to sound harsh, but emigration was a valid option for Irish people in the past, and still is today.

Emigrating to Dublin is a good deal easier than to London, and there is the advantage that you can reasonably get a job in Dublin before you're resident there.

In the absense of sick elderly parents, I don't see any reason why someone has to keep living in a place just 'cos it's where they've lived so far.

ardmacha · 06-12-2011 02:32PM

Dublin has thousands of people drawing the dole living in publicly financed housing within walking distance of places with jobs. What not rant about them?

kadman · 06-12-2011 03:04PM

JustMary wrote: »

I don't want to sound harsh, but emigration was a valid option for Irish people in the past, and still is today.

Emigrating to Dublin is a good deal easier than to London, and there is the advantage that you can reasonably get a job in Dublin before you're resident there.

In the absense of sick elderly parents, I don't see any reason why someone has to keep living in a place just 'cos it's where they've lived so far.

You might let us in on the jobs availanble in Dublin, I reckon there are loads that would love that news.

The unemployed will always be that target of this kind of nonsense. Suggesting that there payments should be cut, if they dont look for work miles away from home. It seems to be the order of the day now, force them onto work schemes, internships, wpp1+2. And now the suggestion that they should be forced to go , where other people think they should.

Rural towns and villages were decimated during the emigration in the 40,s 50,s and 60,s. And some one thinks this is the solution now. Its clear we have learnt nothing.

Ostracising the unemployed for all the ills of the country............brilliant. Why dont we just shoot them, and save all the payments:rolleyes:

Its a proper jobs iniative we need for the young people of Ireland, and the protection of our current educated young people, for their future in Ireland, in any place of their choice.

kadman

pow wow · 06-12-2011 03:29PM

kadman wrote: »

You might let us in on the jobs availanble in Dublin, I reckon there are loads that would love that news.

kadman

A large urban area is always going to have more vacancies than a small town, that's just the way it is. Along with that would usually go a considerably larger number of qualified applicants to apply for the jobs so although it's not necessarily the case that it would be 'easier' to get a job in Dublin, there are undoubtedly more jobs there.

I don't think the OP's suggestion is totally unreasonable for people are mobile in the sense they can relatively easily pick up and leave. I emigrated for the first time when I was almost 17 and I'll be going again in a few months because there is nothing here for me career-wise. It's not always the worst scenario and for me my blood does boil just a little bit at young, mobile people who lament that they 'should' be able to get a job in their hometown and because they can't they're 'entitled' to sit on the dole indefinitely because it's not 'their' fault. It's not the fault of the countless generations and friends who have gone before either but it didn't stop them taking the initiative and leaving rather than wait here on the dole hoping that things improve. I know emigration or even migration within the country might not be anyone's first choice, but there's few of us who have everything exactly the way we want it all the time.

Toasterspark · 06-12-2011 06:05PM

pow_wow wrote:

...my blood does boil just a little bit at young, mobile people who lament that they 'should' be able to get a job in their hometown and because they can't they're 'entitled' to sit on the dole indefinitely because it's not 'their' fault.

I know I've said this in a previous post, but where are these people? Anyone I know around my age (early 20s) that is out of work most certainly DOES NOT have that attitude.

the_hairy_onri · 06-12-2011 08:06PM

The OP is obviously trolling. Can't believe some peoples opinions on here though.

fret_wimp2 · 06-12-2011 08:16PM

the_hairy_onri wrote: »

The OP is obviously trolling. Can't believe some peoples opinions on here though.

I VERY MUCH AM NOT TROLLING!!!

THis is something I believe in actually. I have qualified friends, living in the west (5 of them).

They are all mid/late 20's. All have degrees. All had jobs and lost them.
All comfortably living on the dole now ( actually 2 of them live in very very nice rented houses).

They have no significant ties. no kids, not married, are not care givers. They just get plenty to live on and are at home so why leave.

There are jobs in dublin for them. I know 2 of them initially looked for jobs in dublin, got interviews, but decided not to bother as "dublin just wasnt for me".

So instead of moving 200 miles to earn a living, they sit at home, adding to unemployment numbers.

Again, this is not an attack on umemployed. i have plenty of friends who are unemployed and doing everything they can to get a job, or just cant for some reason or another. I feel for them.

This is for the people who could have a job if only to get up and sort it out.

saa · 06-12-2011 08:30PM

Aren't communities going to shít in the west because all the young people are moving out?
I didn't think some staying behind was an issue opposed to the number of them leaving.

There is a good chance they would probably be on the dole up here and what if they're happy where they are, although I hate people who whine about their situation and do nothing about it.

@ardmacha I am in Dublin and within walking distance of about 10 business' all of them hire by word of mouth and you'd never hear anything back from talking to the manager leaving in a cv and things aren't much better in the city centre. I would not give out about folk living near potential job ops I don't believe 100's of thousands of people are just not trying (well I hope that's not the case)

doolox · 06-12-2011 09:40PM

... and because you have 166 TD's from local areas all over the country you will not get agreement to what amounts to economic exile for their constituents or relations of their constituents.

No TD of ANY party will stand up and support a Minister of Social protection who proposes making people move to areas of scarce labour.

Besides which no such area now exists in this country.

I work in a sector which in the recent past was full of foreign nationals working in junior and some qualified posts. The junior posts are all mostly occupied by Irish in the last 2 years, while the qualified ( Nursing ) posts are still filled by foreign nationals , probably Indian or Philippines. It appears that Irish nurses, when given a choice of Nursing homes in Ireland or Nursing in Canada or Australia where they are in huge demand will go to Australia and Canada. Those who have less qualifications have less choice and owners appear to have less difficulty filling these jobs with Irish nationals. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that the Irish govt are now probably making it very hard for non-EU nationals to get permission to come to Ireland to work. Employers probably have to show huge amounts of effort made to source Irish/EU people for vacant jobs before external applicants are let in.

In other sectors previously filled with non-Irish workers I have noticed an increase in Irish workers and a decrease in non Irish workers especially in retail.

While casually perusing this website I noticed that EU average unemployment was 10% while Irelands unemployment was higher. Irish female unemployment was 10%, near the EU average while male unemployment was 17%, nearly double the EU average. It would appear that Irish males were content to perform less at school and rely on entry into construction and other male dominated trades in the past, where they could command higher wages and left the more educationally demanding sectors, Health care, teaching etc to the women.
The death of the building industry in this country has dealt a body blow to male employment and, lacking alternative vocational and survival skills, they will find it hard to recover.

Unless we get a government structure which bypasses supervision and approval by locally elected TDs you will never get the government to admit that there are jobs black holes from where people need to be "evacuated" from in order to give them a decent chance of getting a job, nor will you get approval from withdrawing dole for long periods from people for quitting or refusing to take job offers.

bjdodo · 06-12-2011 10:51PM

Anyone on the dole should do something for the community in my opinion (if health permits). Sweep streets, cut grass 2 days a week, flexible hours so the person can go for interviews etc. Giving free money decreases the morale of the person that receives the money as well. At the same time streets are full of garbage, at least in some areas. If I was on the dole I would be happy to do something in return. It would make me feel that I have done something. This is true, I am collecting garbage in front of my home and in my environment. This would possibly solve some of these problems.

Unemployed who simply wont move

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