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Unemployed who simply wont move
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Toasterspark wrote: »I know I've said this in a previous post, but where are these people? Anyone I know around my age (early 20s) that is out of work most certainly DOES NOT have that attitude.
Just because you don't personally know anyone like that doesn't mean they don't exist. I wasn't making a sweeping generalisation about everyone but I can assure you that mindset is out there.0 -
Anyone on the dole should do something for the community in my opinion (if health permits). Sweep streets, cut grass 2 days a week, flexible hours so the person can go for interviews etc. Giving free money decreases the morale of the person that receives the money as well. At the same time streets are full of garbage, at least in some areas. If I was on the dole I would be happy to do something in return. It would make me feel that I have done something. This is true, I am collecting garbage in front of my home and in my environment. This would possibly solve some of these problems.
I totally disagree with this. There are huge numbers of people who are very highly educated/trained who are now forced onto social welfare supports due to cutbacks, loss of hours etc. I for one (after spending @9years in higher education) would NOT be happy if I was told that I had to go pick up garbage in order to continue to be on these supports. Not everyone on the dole is a waster who is sitting at home watching the telly- most people are genuinely seeking suitable employment in order to get off social supports as soon as possible.0 -
Anyone on the dole should do something for the community in my opinion (if health permits). Sweep streets, cut grass 2 days a week, flexible hours so the person can go for interviews etc. Giving free money decreases the morale of the person that receives the money as well. At the same time streets are full of garbage, at least in some areas. If I was on the dole I would be happy to do something in return. It would make me feel that I have done something. This is true, I am collecting garbage in front of my home and in my environment. This would possibly solve some of these problems.
How about the government doing something for young educated people on the dole. Like serious efforts to create a climate for job creation. Instead of intimidation to work in community schemes for slave labour rates.
There seem to be lots of suggestions from employed people, about what should be done with unemployed people. These throw away statements about what a person would be willing to do if they were unemployed. Well they are lucky enough not to be unemployed.
And what would the op like to do with me. I,m 57, unemployed for 2.5 years. I am an extremely highly educated construction professional, that has as recently as 2004 added to my City and Guilds qualifications. I live in the country where there are no jobs, nor likely to be. When you have finished forcing all the local educated youth away from their homes, where would you like me to go.
I,m too long in the tooth for emigration, even to Dublin. I like where I am thankyou. And I have paid my prsi and tax contributions for years. I have paid into the fund, that was supposed to support me in times like this. My prsi pension fund was not meant to pay off bankers, I was forced to pay that, in order to help me in hard times.
Its the government responsibility to take things in hand, and provide the climate, opportunity, and supports for creative initiatives to enable our youth to prosper wherever they chose to be. If they cant do that, they are unfit to govern.
They have sold the youth of today, and generations to come into paying off some one elses debt. And most likely will adopt whatever actions they want to, in order to do this.
kadman0 -
That's complete boll*cks.fret_wimp2 wrote: »Before anyone gets annoyed, i am just asking opinion, and i am not stating that this applies to everyone.
I have many friends back in the west of ireland with college degrees and qualifications. Due to whatever reason they are now unemployed, collecting unemployment benefits.
The majority of these people are mid/late 20's, no family of their own, not married, no mortgate.
They could have a job if they moved to Dublin ( im pretty sure of this), but they wont even look at whats available as they dont want to leave their home town.
These are people with valid skills that are actually in demand but i think their refulal to move to where the work is a refusal to work.
Should there be laws saying that if you have no significant ties ( kids, sick family, mortgate etc etc), and you can get a job in another county you have to take it?
If i decided to stay at home i wouldnt have a job either, but i moved to where the work was, and id do it again if i had to, even if it meant leaving the country.
A scheme that matches people with jobs around the country, rather than just in their area would fill many more jobs, and laws ensuring your unemployment was only available if you cant get a job ANYWHERE would ensure people have to work.
what are your opinions on this?
Sorry, I don't mean to he harsh to the OP or be perceived as trolling. Simply, I say this out of sheer anger, frustration and sadness about my own situation and the bigger picture.
So you want the government to consider refusal to move for work refusal to work and, therefore, have their entitlements cut.
This is wrong for so many reasons.
Firstly, perhaps rare for a Dubliner, it's clear that the Government has for decades ignored balanced investment and development in the rural parts of our island, particularly the west and border counties. Cities absorb people, sure, but, for example, were decentralisation implemented correctly according to the National Spatial Strategy, national transport strategy and grasped the nettle of real local government reform, this urban/rural dilemma wouldn't exist.
Secondly, we are citizens with rights. We are free to move, or stay, in any corner of the Republic of Ireland. And there is nothing wrong with people wanting to draw on and contribute to the strength of their local communities.
Thirdly, extending your logic, people should also emigrate to find work rather than stay at home. People don't have a right to travel only that within the EU, EU citizens have a right to do so. Is that that you're suggesting? Where does this end? People don't actually have a right to travel the world to work - permission is granted by the specific countries people end up in.
Finally, all this comes back to how misgoverned our country has been for over 15 years. Responsible government would mean never having to make these choices. But here we.0 -
I totally disagree with this. There are huge numbers of people who are very highly educated/trained who are now forced onto social welfare supports due to cutbacks, loss of hours etc. I for one (after spending @9years in higher education) would NOT be happy if I was told that I had to go pick up garbage in order to continue to be on these supports. Not everyone on the dole is a waster who is sitting at home watching the telly- most people are genuinely seeking suitable employment in order to get off social supports as soon as possible.
I'm a highly experienced IT professional, who had real difficulty getting work in 2009 / 10, when none of the multi-nationals were doing any project work they didn't need to.
It was my very willingness to pick up garbage (ie clean at the Galway races) that got me into some other lower skill office work, at first temporarily and then longer term.
Yes, I'm in the west of Ireland. The only reaon I stayed here was because my partner is self-employed with a client base, and was getting work in 2009. Would have been madness for us to walk away from that, unless I had a good job lined up, that would have supported him for a year or two while he rebuilt the client-base from scratch in another city.
And yes, I do know some people who stay even though they should go.0 -
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And what would the op like to do with me. I,m 57, unemployed for 2.5 years. I am an extremely highly educated construction professional, that has as recently as 2004 added to my City and Guilds qualifications. I live in the country where there are no jobs, nor likely to be. When you have finished forcing all the local educated youth away from their homes, where would you like me to go.
I,m too long in the tooth for emigration, even to Dublin. I like where I am thankyou. And I have paid my prsi and tax contributions for years. I have paid into the fund, that was supposed to support me in times like this.
At 57, you've still got one fifth of your working life ahead of you, and you're not too old to move at all.
I have no problem with you getting short-term support - because I assume that there was work where you are now.
But medium-term, unless you've got caregiving responsibilites, then I don't think that it's the government's responsibility to support you if you won't help yourself. Blaming the government, which your fellow-citizens elected, makes for good rhetoric, but doesn't help you fix your problem.0 -
Quote:
Originally Posted by pow_wow
...my blood does boil just a little bit at young, mobile people who lament that they 'should' be able to get a job in their hometown and because they can't they're 'entitled' to sit on the dole indefinitely because it's not 'their' fault.
I'm sorry pow_wow but i think you are stero typing here, of course there are people who don't want to work but there are hundreds of people who want to work and on another note maybe its impossible for some people to move to bigger cities such as Dublin as they have got themselves into so much financial trouble they can't afford the rent..... REALLY you made my blood boil just a little with this statement
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I'm a highly experienced IT professional, who had real difficulty getting work in 2009 / 10, when none of the multi-nationals were doing any project work they didn't need to.
It was my very willingness to pick up garbage (ie clean at the Galway races) that got me into some other lower skill office work, at first temporarily and then longer term.
Yes, I'm in the west of Ireland. The only reaon I stayed here was because my partner is self-employed with a client base, and was getting work in 2009. Would have been madness for us to walk away from that, unless I had a good job lined up, that would have supported him for a year or two while he rebuilt the client-base from scratch in another city.
And yes, I do know some people who stay even though they should go.
I think it's great that that worked out for you (job contact etc through picking up garbage at the G races), all I'm saying is that is not acceptable for alot of people- myself included. I spent too long in University for that (I have my doctorate and experience)- I'd rather spend my time grabbing hours here and there which in some way complement my field/will help me in my future prospects- as well as doing further courses. I'll keep doing this until I find work or (god forbid) we have to emigrate.
As to the topic at hand, I would be very uncomfortable to say the least at a level of government interference in dictating where you can and cannot work- of course there are people who will abuse the system/be lazy or whatever- however, I think most people are keen to get work and get off SW.0 -
I think it's great that that worked out for you (job contact etc through picking up garbage at the G races), all I'm saying is that is not acceptable for alot of people- myself included.
An attitude that helps keep us in the shape we are in. I often wondered why all/most the services jobs ( shop worker, waiter, etc etc) in Ireland were done by foreign nationals.
Now i see its becuase Irish people are too arrogant to do work they feel " is beneath them". The fact that there are so many international citizens here, working, and so many irish unemployed says a lot. They are willing to do an honest days work and dont think work "beneath them" where as irish people sneer at a job, think they are better than that and sit on the sofa.
If it came to it and i needed to keep food on the table id do what was necessary. if that means working in mc Donalds or behind a counter of a shop, so be it. its not my chosen profession, but its not below me at all.
People need to know that these jobs are not below them, and that any job is a step to a better job.
In an interview situation, two identically qualified candidates come in. one has been on the dole for 6months, the other worked in a petrol station for a few months to keep money comming in the door. Who has shown they are not lazy and they will get the job done?0 -
fret_wimp2 wrote: »An attitude that helps keep us in the shape we are in. I often wondered why all/most the services jobs ( shop worker, waiter, etc etc) in Ireland were done by foreign nationals.
Now i see its becuase Irish people are too arrogant to do work they feel " is beneath them". The fact that there are so many international citizens here, working, and so many irish unemployed says a lot. They are willing to do an honest days work and dont think work "beneath them" where as irish people sneer at a job, think they are better than that and sit on the sofa.
If it came to it and i needed to keep food on the table id do what was necessary. if that means working in mc Donalds or behind a counter of a shop, so be it. its not my chosen profession, but its not below me at all.
People need to know that these jobs are not below them, and that any job is a step to a better job.
In an interview situation, two identically qualified candidates come in. one has been on the dole for 6months, the other worked in a petrol station for a few months to keep money comming in the door. Who has shown they are not lazy and they will get the job done?
I am assuming (as you quoted me) that you have aimed your post at me as an example of someone who is 'arrogant' and 'sneers at a job below them' while 'sitting on the sofa'. As I said, I have spent to long working and putting time into my education to work at a job like mcdonalds, or picking up garbage, or at a petrol station. You DO NOT know the situations that people are in, and your sweeping attitude is offensive. For the record, I AM NOT on social welfare. We are a family in our thirties with young children who worked bloody hard during the celtic tiger, didn't overextend or buy a house - because we couldn't afford it, we paid for our educations, paid prsi (which should be supporting us and people LIKE us in situations where we cannot get employment.) I didn't work and get my degrees and pay taxes to work in a non skilled job utterly non related to my profession- this is not arrogant. The recent budget has hit families like ours extremely hard, and I resent comments suggesting that its people like me that have this country in the state it is currently in. If the government did what it SHOULD do, and invested in education (for example) and job creation for graduates, they would not be in a situation where people like me are being forced to consider taking our skills out of the country.0 -
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leave their West of Ireland , then they are sad, unadventurous, unambitious, lacking in imagination, and self-limiting. Let these Hardy Bucks you speak of stagnate in their one-horse towns. I'm sure you done better.0
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Voodoo_rasher wrote: »leave their West of Ireland , then they are sad, unadventurous, unambitious, lacking in imagination, and self-limiting. Let these Hardy Bucks you speak of stagnate in their one-horse towns. I'm sure you done better.
In fairness, going to Dublin is hardly adventurous. It's a gray, soul destroying city with terrible traffic problems, too many dubs and too many immigrants. I'd sooner move to Drogheda.0 -
I'm sorry pow_wow but i think you are stero typing here, of course there are people who don't want to work but there are hundreds of people who want to work and on another note maybe its impossible for some people to move to bigger cities such as Dublin as they have got themselves into so much financial trouble they can't afford the rent..... REALLY you made my blood boil just a little with this statement
Firstly I didn't say anything about people not wanting to work in a general sense. The OP's post was a specific proposition about people who were unable (not unwilling) to secure work at home and whether they should be encouraged/forced to migrate to get work. Secondly my post referred to people who are reasonably able to move - if someone can't afford rent then clearly they aren't reasonably able to move, likewise if they have a huge mortgage, kids, other ties that prevent them from leaving etc.
I stand by my post 100%, if someone is unable to secure work near their hometown and are reasonably able to leave for somewhere where they have a better chance of getting work, why shouldn't they?0 -
At 57, you've still got one fifth of your working life ahead of you, and you're not too old to move at all.
I have no problem with you getting short-term support - because I assume that there was work where you are now.
But medium-term, unless you've got caregiving responsibilites, then I don't think that it's the government's responsibility to support you if you won't help yourself. Blaming the government, which your fellow-citizens elected, makes for good rhetoric, but doesn't help you fix your problem.
I,m not afraid to travel to any job, no matter where it is, if it pays me to do so. I spent 15 years travelling 120 mile return, everyday, to Dublin from the midlands for work. And that was prior to the boom times, and big wages.
I spent 2 years driving 200 miles return trip everyday to Sligo for work. So I am not afraid of travel.But I,m not about to for an internship or similar.
And if a suitable job comes up in Dublin that makes it financially viable for me to go for, then I,ll send a cv in for it.
But I draw the line on enforcing anyone else to travel, or get their payments stopped if they dont. The unemployed are victims of the recession, not the causes of it.
Any opportunity at future employment for me, has been undermined by the governments mickey mouse schemes. What employer is going to take some one of my age for a role, when they have access to a ready supply of young well educated graduates, for nothing. Get real.
kadman0 -
Any opportunity at future employment for me, has been undermined by the governments mickey mouse schemes. What employer is going to take some one of my age for a role, when they have access to a ready supply of young well educated graduates, for nothing. Get real.
This is what really frustrates me, and it's becoming more and more prevalent. Entry-level jobs have been wiped out because of these work-for-nothing (or next to nothing) schemes.
I managed to scrape together a year's admin/office experience since graduating, but I know for a fact that similar roles to those I worked in are now being offered as 'internships'. I was damn lucky to find those paid roles - internships have cut off any chance of me getting a start working anywhere. It's got to the stage where I'm expected to be thankful for the chance to work for nothing.
I'm not under any illusions, and I don't have a sense of entitlement. I just want to get a foot in the door somewhere and actually get paid to work so I can afford to live.0 -
The constitution guarantees the support of the less well off in society, regardless of what some here might think on the support of those people in times of need.
It is also supposed to protect against the exploitation of the public, by private enterprise. Seems to me that something is lacking.
kadman
.Article 45
The principles of social policy set forth in this Article are intended for the general guidance of the Oireachtas. The application of those principles in the making of laws shall be the care of the Oireachtas exclusively, and shall not be cognisable by any Court under any of the provisions of this Constitution.
1. The State shall strive to promote the welfare of the whole people by securing and protecting as effectively as it may a social order in which justice and charity shall inform all the institutions of the national life.
2. The State shall, in particular, direct its policy towards securing:
i. That the citizens (all of whom, men and women equally, have the right to an adequate means of livelihood) may through their occupations find the means of making reasonable provision for their domestic needs.
ii. That the ownership and control of the material resources of the community may be so distributed amongst private individuals and the various classes as best to subserve the common good.
iii. That, especially, the operation of free competition shall not be allowed so to develop as to result in the concentration of the ownership or control of essential commodities in a few individuals to the common detriment.
iv. That in what pertains to the control of credit the constant and predominant aim shall be the welfare of the people as a whole.
v. That there may be established on the land in economic security as many families as in the circumstances shall be practicable.
3. 1° The State shall favour and, where necessary, supplement private initiative in industry and commerce.
2° The State shall endeavour to secure that private enterprise shall be so conducted as to ensure reasonable efficiency in the production and distribution of goods and as to protect the public against unjust exploitation.
4. 1° The State pledges itself to safeguard with especial care the economic interests of the weaker sections of the community, and, where necessary, to contribute to the support of the infirm, the widow, the orphan, and the aged.2° The State shall endeavour to ensure that the strength and health of workers, men and women, and the tender age of children shall not be abused and that citizens shall not be forced by economic necessity to enter avocations unsuited to their sex, age or strength0 -
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Toasterspark wrote: »This is what really frustrates me, and it's becoming more and more prevalent. Entry-level jobs have been wiped out because of these work-for-nothing (or next to nothing) schemes.
Here's an internship in a petrol station!
40 hour week, 9 months.. Responsibilities include operating a modern till and washing cars. you'll be assigned a MENTOR!
It really is pathetic. The government is giving taxpayers money to these crooks.
I certainly won't be using Dealgan Service Station any time soon.0 -
fret_wimp2 wrote: »Before anyone gets annoyed, i am just asking opinion, and i am not stating that this applies to everyone.
I have many friends back in the west of ireland with college degrees and qualifications. Due to whatever reason they are now unemployed, collecting unemployment benefits.
The majority of these people are mid/late 20's, no family of their own, not married, no mortgate.
They could have a job if they moved to Dublin ( im pretty sure of this), but they wont even look at whats available as they dont want to leave their home town.
These are people with valid skills that are actually in demand but i think their refulal to move to where the work is a refusal to work.
Should there be laws saying that if you have no significant ties ( kids, sick family, mortgate etc etc), and you can get a job in another county you have to take it?
If i decided to stay at home i wouldnt have a job either, but i moved to where the work was, and id do it again if i had to, even if it meant leaving the country.
A scheme that matches people with jobs around the country, rather than just in their area would fill many more jobs, and laws ensuring your unemployment was only available if you cant get a job ANYWHERE would ensure people have to work.
what are your opinions on this?
What are your circumstances & you are living in the area that you were born in?0 -
Here,s a thought.
Maybe the government should have brought in a job sharing scheme. Whereby those with jobs , share it with those unemplyed. It would give the unemployed an opportunity to earn minumum wage , or better ,for at least 20 hours per week. And let them claim for the other remaining 3 days. And let the other participant do the same.
And also give them free travel passes for 3 days each week, validated by their employer, if they are travelling to a city for work.It would also give the employed worker some idea of what life is like on the dole, instead of blaming the unemployed for the ills of the country.
kadman0 -
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.... For the record, I AM NOT on social welfare.
And this means that the original post is totally not about you. If you don't need government assistance, then fair play to you, and I hope you enjoy living wherever you choose.
For the record, I didn't get a job through contacts made while picking up rubbish at the Galway races. Rather it was my attitude (willingness to pick up rubbish if that was what it took) that impressed a recruiter, who put some far nicer work my way.
Attitude isn't everything, but it helps a lot.0 -
And this means that the original post is totally not about you. If you don't need government assistance, then fair play to you, and I hope you enjoy living wherever you choose.
For the record, I didn't get a job through contacts made while picking up rubbish at the Galway races. Rather it was my attitude (willingness to pick up rubbish if that was what it took) that impressed a recruiter, who put some far nicer work my way.
Attitude isn't everything, but it helps a lot.
I never said the original post was about me at all. I still have an opinion on the OPs post. I was also replying to the OP who had quoted me directly and insinuated that people with my attitude ie an unwillingness to do jobs which are 'below' me are in someway responsible for our current economic climate (still waiting for the OPs response), and to the idea that bjdodo posted about sweeping the streets/picking up garbage. Just because I'm not currently on SW doesn't mean I'm not entitled to an opinion.
Once again, and for the record - re picking up rubbish - good for you- your attitude and actions obviously helped you. This is NOT a route that would work for many. Myself included, I would prefer to spend my time looking for work in my/related to my field, and getting further training (which I feel is a very positive attitude). This would apply to me whether or not I was on SW or not. This does not mean that I am arrogant or lazy. This is true for MANY people on SW. As other posters have commented, we live in a welfare state, and pay taxes - meaning we can then avail of those social supports if and when the time comes that we suffer loss of employment etc. While there will ALWAYS be people who abuse the system, having the government dictate either the location or the type of employment you MUST take in order to continue to avail of the taxes you paid- is not at all something that I would agree with.0
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