Unemployed who simply wont move

fret_wimp2

Before anyone gets annoyed, i am just asking opinion, and i am not stating that this applies to everyone.

I have many friends back in the west of ireland with college degrees and qualifications. Due to whatever reason they are now unemployed, collecting unemployment benefits.

The majority of these people are mid/late 20's, no family of their own, not married, no mortgate.

They could have a job if they moved to Dublin ( im pretty sure of this), but they wont even look at whats available as they dont want to leave their home town.


These are people with valid skills that are actually in demand but i think their refulal to move to where the work is a refusal to work.

Should there be laws saying that if you have no significant ties ( kids, sick family, mortgate etc etc), and you can get a job in another county you have to take it?

If i decided to stay at home i wouldnt have a job either, but i moved to where the work was, and id do it again if i had to, even if it meant leaving the country.

A scheme that matches people with jobs around the country, rather than just in their area would fill many more jobs, and laws ensuring your unemployment was only available if you cant get a job ANYWHERE would ensure people have to work.

what are your opinions on this?

mickman

you cant force a person to move from their home town im afraid

if people wont move for work then they will suffer mentally, physically and financially. its their own choice

fret_wimp2

it is their own choice, but its a choice thats currently costing the state and PAYE workers a lot of money.

Perhaps its just my skued logic to think that if your fit, qualified and have no siginficant ties to an area other than its your comfort zone, then you should realistically move to where the work is.

Mr. Loverman

I don't think we should go down the road of forcing people to do anything.

But I do think we should cut off the dole if it is clear people are letting a lifestyle choice (e.g. live in a nice country village) dictate that they remain on the dole.

fret_wimp2

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

I don't think we should go down the road of forcing people to do anything.

But I do think we should cut off the dole if it is clear people are letting a lifestyle choice (e.g. live in a nice country village) dictate that they remain on the dole.

Nicely worded. thats exactly what i meant. Force was a bad word to use on my part.

Yea, limit benefits if there is no legit reason not to move to obtain work. people can then chose to remain, on limited benifits or move to get a job.

mickman

we could get the army in to move em!

franco25

Hi

Interesting post made! I know what you are saying but I think it is very easy for people to judge others who are out of work. I am out of work now for three months and my attitude has totally changed. All I can say is €188 a week does not get you far and cutting this is not going to make a difference.

My attitude is that I have been getting interviews - too many rounds of interview for each position if you ask me. I think if I wasn't getting interviews I would be asking the question of were I should relocate!

tenchi-fan

It's rotten that you are suggesting that people have their benefits cut because they won't move hundreds of miles away from their family and friends.

That's like saying you're cutting off someone's benefits because there are jobs in Australia and they should emigrate.

In the UK they are considering cutting benefits in certain regions. I.e. people in the North would receive less in benefits than people living in London, because the cost of living is lower.

I suppose cutting benefits in the west would be the fairest option. No doubt you would be against a plan like this, as you want to be able to pick and choose who would be "forced" to work away from home.

I especially resent your use of the term "No significant ties". You're probably referring to young graduates who do not have a family. I'd nearly argue that a family living on benefits are the ones costing the state more money and therefore should be the ones who are obliged to move.

All in all, I'm in favour of a system where taxes are low and social welfare is low.

Your idea that certain people should be discriminated against based on their age or marital status & that their only ties to an area should be their employment is quite disturbing.

franco25

I'd think you easy targeting graduates here! In my job hunting I have become very shocked in what I have seen!

I have good few years experience and have recently graduated from post-grad in the evening. A position is available for optimizing semi-state organisation which is clearly doable with skills acquired during college. However what is on offer here is to pay €50 towards expenses as well as your dole payments. Sorry but I struggle to get this! This country will need graduates to sort out other generations mess imo!

Mrs OBumble

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

I don't think we should go down the road of forcing people to do anything.

But I do think we should cut off the dole if it is clear people are letting a lifestyle choice (e.g. live in a nice country village) dictate that they remain on the dole.

Indeed. The labour-economics jargon for this is "absenting yourself from the labour market".

It's a tough one though, especially if it's the labour market that's absented itself from you. For instance if someone had a job with Dell in Limerick, and Dell packed up and left: I wouldn't be in favour of being too toubh on people who'd studied in Limerick, don't have a family or house there, but did work and build a life for themselves.

It's also hard to say what counts as absenting yourself: there are people who living in Galway and to a weekly commute to Dublin, or even the UK, proving that it is possible to live here and work there.

All in all, while I see the OPs point (economics does influence where we life, IMHO) I think it would be too hard to enforce rules.

Toasterspark

I'm currently unemployed and living in a rural area. I'm glad that you have such a simplistic view of my life, and that you assume I'm just laying about, doing nothing and hoping someone will call to my door and hand me an employment contract.

They could have a job if they moved to Dublin ( im pretty sure of this)

Yeah, I'm ruling out all those job offers I've got from Dublin. Too much effort. I mean, seriously? In case you hadn't noticed, there is huge unemployment in Ireland right now! I have been applying for jobs and going for interviews every other week and getting nowhere (so far). Almost all of those jobs have been in Dublin. I am not discriminating by location AT ALL.

So, what you're saying is that, instead of applying for jobs and going to interviews, I should move up to Dublin and increase all of my living costs and bills (while on the dole) so I can do the same thing up there? Seems like I'd be haemorrhaging money in that scenario, and I'd still be no further on. Still doing the same thing, but at a greater cost to me.

I know you said that your post doesn't apply to everyone, but nobody I knew that is unemployed wants to be unemployed. I know I certainly don't, especially after spending years studying hard in college.

You sound like you are happily employed in a job, and it's easy to look at people without a job and make silly assumptions. Being unemployed is a bitch and I don't want to be on the dole. Neither does the majority of people.

skelliser

Arbeit macht frei

scotty_irish

Toasterspark wrote: »

I'm currently unemployed and living in a rural area. I'm glad that you have such a simplistic view of my life, and that you assume I'm just laying about, doing nothing and hoping someone will call to my door and hand me an employment contract.



Yeah, I'm ruling out all those job offers I've got from Dublin. Too much effort. I mean, seriously? In case you hadn't noticed, there is huge unemployment in Ireland right now! I have been applying for jobs and going for interviews every other week and getting nowhere (so far). Almost all of those jobs have been in Dublin. I am not discriminating by location AT ALL.

So, what you're saying is that, instead of applying for jobs and going to interviews, I should move up to Dublin and increase all of my living costs and bills (while on the dole) so I can do the same thing up there? Seems like I'd be haemorrhaging money in that scenario, and I'd still be no further on. Still doing the same thing, but at a greater cost to me.

I know you said that your post doesn't apply to everyone, but nobody I knew that is unemployed wants to be unemployed. I know I certainly don't, especially after spending years studying hard in college.

You sound like you are happily employed in a job, and it's easy to look at people without a job and make silly assumptions. Being unemployed is a bitch and I don't want to be on the dole. Neither does the majority of people.

I'm pretty sure the OP is referring to people only looking for work in their locality. He's not suggesting you move to Dublin, only that people be "encouraged" to look for work away from home.

fret_wimp2

scotty_irish wrote: »

I'm pretty sure the OP is referring to people only looking for work in their locality. He's not suggesting you move to Dublin, only that people be "encouraged" to look for work away from home.

Bingo. I see some people read the title and jumped to conclusions. I know people back west who cannot move due to family commitments and other genuine reasons. Thats fair enough.
But for many its not that they have any particular issue tying them to the region other than "id hate to work in Dublin", or "Im comfortable in my life here".

Im prob harsh, but those are not reasons to sit on the dole, simply because there is no job within driving distance of your home.
Besides, dublin is 2.5 hours drive from my home back west. Roughly 2.5 hours in the train also. If i needed to be back home quicky i can be there in 2.5 hours. Thats not far really.

Perhaps a system whereby each case is judged on the persons filing of a report why they "need" to stay in a location where there are no jobs.
Im sure thats open to abuse also, but im just trying to make a point that a system like that could get a lot of people back working.

Yeah, I'm ruling out all those job offers I've got from Dublin. Too much effort. I mean, seriously? In case you hadn't noticed, there is huge unemployment in Ireland right now! I have been applying for jobs and going for interviews every other week and getting nowhere (so far). Almost all of those jobs have been in Dublin. I am not discriminating by location AT ALL.

yea, there is huge unemployment. and getting people who can work to go find work would lower those numbers a bit. are you saying though you are getting called for interviews but are turning them down if they are in dublin as "its too much effort" ? i must be misunderstanding you as you sound like someone who wants to work and would take an oppertuinity to interview for a job if they got one.

So, what you're saying is that, instead of applying for jobs and going to interviews, I should move up to Dublin and increase all of my living costs and bills (while on the dole) so I can do the same thing up there? Seems like I'd be haemorrhaging money in that scenario, and I'd still be no further on. Still doing the same thing, but at a greater cost to me.

I know you said that your post doesn't apply to everyone, but nobody I knew that is unemployed wants to be unemployed. I know I certainly don't, especially after spending years studying hard in college.

No, not saying that at all. why would you move up here without a job? that would be stupid. Im saying people should take off the blinkers though when looking for jobs. remove the location filter in jobs.ie. my friends look for jobs, but the filter is set to one county in the west, purely because they think they wouldnt enjoy dublin. so sitting at home on the dole is preferable to a paying job in dublin.

you can apply for a job in dublin or anywhere regardless of your current place of residence.

You sound like you are happily employed in a job, and it's easy to look at people without a job and make silly assumptions. Being unemployed is a bitch and I don't want to be on the dole. Neither does the majority of people.

To this i reply that ive been unemployed. I moved to where the work was. my brother was unemployed, he went abroad to where work was. i found it preferable to be working, even if im an hour or two from home, as opposed to being at home wishing i had a job.

ojola

fret_wimp2 wrote: »

Before anyone gets annoyed, i am just asking opinion, and i am not stating that this applies to everyone.

I have many friends back in the west of ireland with college degrees and qualifications. Due to whatever reason they are now unemployed, collecting unemployment benefits.

The majority of these people are mid/late 20's, no family of their own, not married, no mortgate.

They could have a job if they moved to Dublin ( im pretty sure of this), but they wont even look at whats available as they dont want to leave their home town.


These are people with valid skills that are actually in demand but i think their refulal to move to where the work is a refusal to work.

Should there be laws saying that if you have no significant ties ( kids, sick family, mortgate etc etc), and you can get a job in another county you have to take it?

If i decided to stay at home i wouldnt have a job either, but i moved to where the work was, and id do it again if i had to, even if it meant leaving the country.

A scheme that matches people with jobs around the country, rather than just in their area would fill many more jobs, and laws ensuring your unemployment was only available if you cant get a job ANYWHERE would ensure people have to work.

what are your opinions on this?

Home town never left home before sound to me as signifact enough of ties.

fret_wimp2

ojola wrote: »

Home town never left home before sound to me as signifact enough of ties.

IMO, just because its your home town is not significant enough ties.

starlit

To be honest where I live there is very little work around. Only selective few of low paid and tradesmen jobs are around. If wanting a job near me you have to have years work experience behind you and be very skilled and experienced to fill any kind of job role. In particular specific roles in certain professions like nurses, teachers (which has been curbed), doctors, solicitors are the only viable options of employment but even they are limited. Like secretarial work, business or IT or science or in the area of childcare/social care you need a certain amount of work experience and years behind you before securing any kind of work in my locality making it harder for graduates looking for work.

Its hard enough for secondary and college students to get part time work here too so making it harder for graduates to find work around my area whether qualified, not experienced or not experienced enough despite having some work experience still ins't enough for some employers so means having to go where the work is in the cities in particular Dublin otherwise emigration is the next and only option.

Even still if graduates or experienced people set up a business of their own that has its own issues trying to sustain itself in this economic climate so what is left?? Going back to Education or the social welfare?

Nolanger

fret_wimp2 wrote: »

what are your opinions on this?

They're not supposed to be claiming welfare if there are no jobs available in their area.

Toasterspark

The 'too much effort' remark was sarcasm, though it doesn't travel well in text form. Sorry for the confusion. I'm searching tirelessly for jobs all the time.

I am looking for work all over the country - definitely not limiting myself to a particular town/city/county. I just find it incredibly hard to believe that people that have gone on to third level education and worked hard for their qualifications, only to vegetate in their home towns afterward. Anyone I know definitely doesn't/wouldn't do that.

Im saying people should take off the blinkers though when looking for jobs. remove the location filter in jobs.ie. my friends look for jobs, but the filter is set to one county in the west, purely because they think they wouldnt enjoy dublin. so sitting at home on the dole is preferable to a paying job in dublin.

I'd honestly be shocked by that, and I'd imagine it's the exception rather than the rule. Jobs are sparse in the West at the best of times, not to mind in a recession. I'd personally love to stay in the West, but realistically the work is in Dublin and that's where I'm applying for work. Isn't that a given? I see no harm in filtering the job search to a specific county - but after you get a job somewhere. I'll always have an eye open for jobs near home but I'd see having ANY job as the main priority. I'd imagine the majority of people would think the same as me.

c0rk3r

fret_wimp2 wrote: »

Before anyone gets annoyed, i am just asking opinion, and i am not stating that this applies to everyone.

Its a sensitive issue and when you speak in generalities, of a scheme which you want to introduce to wider society based on a small cohort of your friends then you're undoubtably going to agitate alot of people. You need to be clear, concise, specific and informed which im afraid you are not.

fret_wimp2 wrote:

Should there be laws saying that if you have no significant ties ( kids, sick family, mortgate etc etc), and you can get a job in another county you have to take it?

No.

fret_wimp2 wrote:

A scheme that matches people with jobs around the country, rather than just in their area would fill many more jobs, and laws ensuring your unemployment was only available if you cant get a job ANYWHERE would ensure people have to work.

Absolutely not.

fret_wimp2

wow! Thanks for that c0rk3r. Dont feel like clarifying your views at all? simple NO is all your offering?

Are you perhaps unemployed, whereby this would directly affect you or do you just think it a bad idea? if so, why?

Just to nail down a few points.

Fact: country is up the wazoo.
Fact: PAYE workers are paying for it.
Fact: more PAYE Workers = more taxes raised.
Fact: More unemployed = more outgoings in benefits and less to fix the country.
Fact: theres more to this than just making people up sticks and work somewhere else, hense the discussion.

Mrs OBumble

doovdela wrote: »

To be honest where I live there is very little work around. .. Going back to Education or the social welfare?

I don't want to sound harsh, but emigration was a valid option for Irish people in the past, and still is today.

Emigrating to Dublin is a good deal easier than to London, and there is the advantage that you can reasonably get a job in Dublin before you're resident there.

In the absense of sick elderly parents, I don't see any reason why someone has to keep living in a place just 'cos it's where they've lived so far.

ardmacha

Dublin has thousands of people drawing the dole living in publicly financed housing within walking distance of places with jobs. What not rant about them?

kadman

JustMary wrote: »

I don't want to sound harsh, but emigration was a valid option for Irish people in the past, and still is today.

Emigrating to Dublin is a good deal easier than to London, and there is the advantage that you can reasonably get a job in Dublin before you're resident there.

In the absense of sick elderly parents, I don't see any reason why someone has to keep living in a place just 'cos it's where they've lived so far.

You might let us in on the jobs availanble in Dublin, I reckon there are loads that would love that news.

The unemployed will always be that target of this kind of nonsense. Suggesting that there payments should be cut, if they dont look for work miles away from home. It seems to be the order of the day now, force them onto work schemes, internships, wpp1+2. And now the suggestion that they should be forced to go , where other people think they should.

Rural towns and villages were decimated during the emigration in the 40,s 50,s and 60,s. And some one thinks this is the solution now. Its clear we have learnt nothing.

Ostracising the unemployed for all the ills of the country............brilliant. Why dont we just shoot them, and save all the payments:rolleyes:

Its a proper jobs iniative we need for the young people of Ireland, and the protection of our current educated young people, for their future in Ireland, in any place of their choice.

kadman

pow wow

kadman wrote: »

You might let us in on the jobs availanble in Dublin, I reckon there are loads that would love that news.

kadman

A large urban area is always going to have more vacancies than a small town, that's just the way it is. Along with that would usually go a considerably larger number of qualified applicants to apply for the jobs so although it's not necessarily the case that it would be 'easier' to get a job in Dublin, there are undoubtedly more jobs there.

I don't think the OP's suggestion is totally unreasonable for people are mobile in the sense they can relatively easily pick up and leave. I emigrated for the first time when I was almost 17 and I'll be going again in a few months because there is nothing here for me career-wise. It's not always the worst scenario and for me my blood does boil just a little bit at young, mobile people who lament that they 'should' be able to get a job in their hometown and because they can't they're 'entitled' to sit on the dole indefinitely because it's not 'their' fault. It's not the fault of the countless generations and friends who have gone before either but it didn't stop them taking the initiative and leaving rather than wait here on the dole hoping that things improve. I know emigration or even migration within the country might not be anyone's first choice, but there's few of us who have everything exactly the way we want it all the time.

Toasterspark

pow_wow wrote:

...my blood does boil just a little bit at young, mobile people who lament that they 'should' be able to get a job in their hometown and because they can't they're 'entitled' to sit on the dole indefinitely because it's not 'their' fault.

I know I've said this in a previous post, but where are these people? Anyone I know around my age (early 20s) that is out of work most certainly DOES NOT have that attitude.

the_hairy_onri

The OP is obviously trolling. Can't believe some peoples opinions on here though.

fret_wimp2

the_hairy_onri wrote: »

The OP is obviously trolling. Can't believe some peoples opinions on here though.

I VERY MUCH AM NOT TROLLING!!!

THis is something I believe in actually. I have qualified friends, living in the west (5 of them).

They are all mid/late 20's. All have degrees. All had jobs and lost them.
All comfortably living on the dole now ( actually 2 of them live in very very nice rented houses).

They have no significant ties. no kids, not married, are not care givers. They just get plenty to live on and are at home so why leave.

There are jobs in dublin for them. I know 2 of them initially looked for jobs in dublin, got interviews, but decided not to bother as "dublin just wasnt for me".

So instead of moving 200 miles to earn a living, they sit at home, adding to unemployment numbers.


Again, this is not an attack on umemployed. i have plenty of friends who are unemployed and doing everything they can to get a job, or just cant for some reason or another. I feel for them.

This is for the people who could have a job if only to get up and sort it out.

saa

Aren't communities going to shít in the west because all the young people are moving out?
I didn't think some staying behind was an issue opposed to the number of them leaving.

There is a good chance they would probably be on the dole up here and what if they're happy where they are, although I hate people who whine about their situation and do nothing about it.


@ardmacha I am in Dublin and within walking distance of about 10 business' all of them hire by word of mouth and you'd never hear anything back from talking to the manager leaving in a cv and things aren't much better in the city centre. I would not give out about folk living near potential job ops I don't believe 100's of thousands of people are just not trying (well I hope that's not the case)

doolox

... and because you have 166 TD's from local areas all over the country you will not get agreement to what amounts to economic exile for their constituents or relations of their constituents.

No TD of ANY party will stand up and support a Minister of Social protection who proposes making people move to areas of scarce labour.

Besides which no such area now exists in this country.

I work in a sector which in the recent past was full of foreign nationals working in junior and some qualified posts. The junior posts are all mostly occupied by Irish in the last 2 years, while the qualified ( Nursing ) posts are still filled by foreign nationals , probably Indian or Philippines. It appears that Irish nurses, when given a choice of Nursing homes in Ireland or Nursing in Canada or Australia where they are in huge demand will go to Australia and Canada. Those who have less qualifications have less choice and owners appear to have less difficulty filling these jobs with Irish nationals. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that the Irish govt are now probably making it very hard for non-EU nationals to get permission to come to Ireland to work. Employers probably have to show huge amounts of effort made to source Irish/EU people for vacant jobs before external applicants are let in.

In other sectors previously filled with non-Irish workers I have noticed an increase in Irish workers and a decrease in non Irish workers especially in retail.

While casually perusing this website I noticed that EU average unemployment was 10% while Irelands unemployment was higher. Irish female unemployment was 10%, near the EU average while male unemployment was 17%, nearly double the EU average. It would appear that Irish males were content to perform less at school and rely on entry into construction and other male dominated trades in the past, where they could command higher wages and left the more educationally demanding sectors, Health care, teaching etc to the women.
The death of the building industry in this country has dealt a body blow to male employment and, lacking alternative vocational and survival skills, they will find it hard to recover.

Unless we get a government structure which bypasses supervision and approval by locally elected TDs you will never get the government to admit that there are jobs black holes from where people need to be "evacuated" from in order to give them a decent chance of getting a job, nor will you get approval from withdrawing dole for long periods from people for quitting or refusing to take job offers.

bjdodo

Anyone on the dole should do something for the community in my opinion (if health permits). Sweep streets, cut grass 2 days a week, flexible hours so the person can go for interviews etc. Giving free money decreases the morale of the person that receives the money as well. At the same time streets are full of garbage, at least in some areas. If I was on the dole I would be happy to do something in return. It would make me feel that I have done something. This is true, I am collecting garbage in front of my home and in my environment. This would possibly solve some of these problems.

pow wow

Toasterspark wrote: »

I know I've said this in a previous post, but where are these people? Anyone I know around my age (early 20s) that is out of work most certainly DOES NOT have that attitude.

Just because you don't personally know anyone like that doesn't mean they don't exist. I wasn't making a sweeping generalisation about everyone but I can assure you that mindset is out there.

DeaKat

bjdodo wrote: »

Anyone on the dole should do something for the community in my opinion (if health permits). Sweep streets, cut grass 2 days a week, flexible hours so the person can go for interviews etc. Giving free money decreases the morale of the person that receives the money as well. At the same time streets are full of garbage, at least in some areas. If I was on the dole I would be happy to do something in return. It would make me feel that I have done something. This is true, I am collecting garbage in front of my home and in my environment. This would possibly solve some of these problems.

I totally disagree with this. There are huge numbers of people who are very highly educated/trained who are now forced onto social welfare supports due to cutbacks, loss of hours etc. I for one (after spending @9years in higher education) would NOT be happy if I was told that I had to go pick up garbage in order to continue to be on these supports. Not everyone on the dole is a waster who is sitting at home watching the telly- most people are genuinely seeking suitable employment in order to get off social supports as soon as possible.

kadman

bjdodo wrote: »

Anyone on the dole should do something for the community in my opinion (if health permits). Sweep streets, cut grass 2 days a week, flexible hours so the person can go for interviews etc. Giving free money decreases the morale of the person that receives the money as well. At the same time streets are full of garbage, at least in some areas. If I was on the dole I would be happy to do something in return. It would make me feel that I have done something. This is true, I am collecting garbage in front of my home and in my environment. This would possibly solve some of these problems.

How about the government doing something for young educated people on the dole. Like serious efforts to create a climate for job creation. Instead of intimidation to work in community schemes for slave labour rates.

There seem to be lots of suggestions from employed people, about what should be done with unemployed people. These throw away statements about what a person would be willing to do if they were unemployed. Well they are lucky enough not to be unemployed.

And what would the op like to do with me. I,m 57, unemployed for 2.5 years. I am an extremely highly educated construction professional, that has as recently as 2004 added to my City and Guilds qualifications. I live in the country where there are no jobs, nor likely to be. When you have finished forcing all the local educated youth away from their homes, where would you like me to go.

I,m too long in the tooth for emigration, even to Dublin. I like where I am thankyou. And I have paid my prsi and tax contributions for years. I have paid into the fund, that was supposed to support me in times like this. My prsi pension fund was not meant to pay off bankers, I was forced to pay that, in order to help me in hard times.

Its the government responsibility to take things in hand, and provide the climate, opportunity, and supports for creative initiatives to enable our youth to prosper wherever they chose to be. If they cant do that, they are unfit to govern.

They have sold the youth of today, and generations to come into paying off some one elses debt. And most likely will adopt whatever actions they want to, in order to do this.

kadman

sarkozy

fret_wimp2 wrote: »

Before anyone gets annoyed, i am just asking opinion, and i am not stating that this applies to everyone.

I have many friends back in the west of ireland with college degrees and qualifications. Due to whatever reason they are now unemployed, collecting unemployment benefits.

The majority of these people are mid/late 20's, no family of their own, not married, no mortgate.

They could have a job if they moved to Dublin ( im pretty sure of this), but they wont even look at whats available as they dont want to leave their home town.


These are people with valid skills that are actually in demand but i think their refulal to move to where the work is a refusal to work.

Should there be laws saying that if you have no significant ties ( kids, sick family, mortgate etc etc), and you can get a job in another county you have to take it?

If i decided to stay at home i wouldnt have a job either, but i moved to where the work was, and id do it again if i had to, even if it meant leaving the country.

A scheme that matches people with jobs around the country, rather than just in their area would fill many more jobs, and laws ensuring your unemployment was only available if you cant get a job ANYWHERE would ensure people have to work.

what are your opinions on this?

That's complete boll*cks.

Sorry, I don't mean to he harsh to the OP or be perceived as trolling. Simply, I say this out of sheer anger, frustration and sadness about my own situation and the bigger picture.

So you want the government to consider refusal to move for work refusal to work and, therefore, have their entitlements cut.

This is wrong for so many reasons.

Firstly, perhaps rare for a Dubliner, it's clear that the Government has for decades ignored balanced investment and development in the rural parts of our island, particularly the west and border counties. Cities absorb people, sure, but, for example, were decentralisation implemented correctly according to the National Spatial Strategy, national transport strategy and grasped the nettle of real local government reform, this urban/rural dilemma wouldn't exist.

Secondly, we are citizens with rights. We are free to move, or stay, in any corner of the Republic of Ireland. And there is nothing wrong with people wanting to draw on and contribute to the strength of their local communities.

Thirdly, extending your logic, people should also emigrate to find work rather than stay at home. People don't have a right to travel only that within the EU, EU citizens have a right to do so. Is that that you're suggesting? Where does this end? People don't actually have a right to travel the world to work - permission is granted by the specific countries people end up in.

Finally, all this comes back to how misgoverned our country has been for over 15 years. Responsible government would mean never having to make these choices. But here we.

Mrs OBumble

DeaKat wrote: »

I totally disagree with this. There are huge numbers of people who are very highly educated/trained who are now forced onto social welfare supports due to cutbacks, loss of hours etc. I for one (after spending @9years in higher education) would NOT be happy if I was told that I had to go pick up garbage in order to continue to be on these supports. Not everyone on the dole is a waster who is sitting at home watching the telly- most people are genuinely seeking suitable employment in order to get off social supports as soon as possible.

I'm a highly experienced IT professional, who had real difficulty getting work in 2009 / 10, when none of the multi-nationals were doing any project work they didn't need to.

It was my very willingness to pick up garbage (ie clean at the Galway races) that got me into some other lower skill office work, at first temporarily and then longer term.

Yes, I'm in the west of Ireland. The only reaon I stayed here was because my partner is self-employed with a client base, and was getting work in 2009. Would have been madness for us to walk away from that, unless I had a good job lined up, that would have supported him for a year or two while he rebuilt the client-base from scratch in another city.

And yes, I do know some people who stay even though they should go.

Mrs OBumble

kadman wrote: »

And what would the op like to do with me. I,m 57, unemployed for 2.5 years. I am an extremely highly educated construction professional, that has as recently as 2004 added to my City and Guilds qualifications. I live in the country where there are no jobs, nor likely to be. When you have finished forcing all the local educated youth away from their homes, where would you like me to go.

I,m too long in the tooth for emigration, even to Dublin. I like where I am thankyou. And I have paid my prsi and tax contributions for years. I have paid into the fund, that was supposed to support me in times like this.

At 57, you've still got one fifth of your working life ahead of you, and you're not too old to move at all.

I have no problem with you getting short-term support - because I assume that there was work where you are now.

But medium-term, unless you've got caregiving responsibilites, then I don't think that it's the government's responsibility to support you if you won't help yourself. Blaming the government, which your fellow-citizens elected, makes for good rhetoric, but doesn't help you fix your problem.

locgo

Quote:
Originally Posted by pow_wow
...my blood does boil just a little bit at young, mobile people who lament that they 'should' be able to get a job in their hometown and because they can't they're 'entitled' to sit on the dole indefinitely because it's not 'their' fault.

I'm sorry pow_wow but i think you are stero typing here, of course there are people who don't want to work but there are hundreds of people who want to work and on another note maybe its impossible for some people to move to bigger cities such as Dublin as they have got themselves into so much financial trouble they can't afford the rent..... REALLY you made my blood boil just a little with this statement

DeaKat

JustMary wrote: »

I'm a highly experienced IT professional, who had real difficulty getting work in 2009 / 10, when none of the multi-nationals were doing any project work they didn't need to.

It was my very willingness to pick up garbage (ie clean at the Galway races) that got me into some other lower skill office work, at first temporarily and then longer term.

Yes, I'm in the west of Ireland. The only reaon I stayed here was because my partner is self-employed with a client base, and was getting work in 2009. Would have been madness for us to walk away from that, unless I had a good job lined up, that would have supported him for a year or two while he rebuilt the client-base from scratch in another city.

And yes, I do know some people who stay even though they should go.

I think it's great that that worked out for you (job contact etc through picking up garbage at the G races), all I'm saying is that is not acceptable for alot of people- myself included. I spent too long in University for that (I have my doctorate and experience)- I'd rather spend my time grabbing hours here and there which in some way complement my field/will help me in my future prospects- as well as doing further courses. I'll keep doing this until I find work or (god forbid) we have to emigrate.
As to the topic at hand, I would be very uncomfortable to say the least at a level of government interference in dictating where you can and cannot work- of course there are people who will abuse the system/be lazy or whatever- however, I think most people are keen to get work and get off SW.

fret_wimp2

DeaKat wrote: »

I think it's great that that worked out for you (job contact etc through picking up garbage at the G races), all I'm saying is that is not acceptable for alot of people- myself included.

An attitude that helps keep us in the shape we are in. I often wondered why all/most the services jobs ( shop worker, waiter, etc etc) in Ireland were done by foreign nationals.

Now i see its becuase Irish people are too arrogant to do work they feel " is beneath them". The fact that there are so many international citizens here, working, and so many irish unemployed says a lot. They are willing to do an honest days work and dont think work "beneath them" where as irish people sneer at a job, think they are better than that and sit on the sofa.

If it came to it and i needed to keep food on the table id do what was necessary. if that means working in mc Donalds or behind a counter of a shop, so be it. its not my chosen profession, but its not below me at all.

People need to know that these jobs are not below them, and that any job is a step to a better job.

In an interview situation, two identically qualified candidates come in. one has been on the dole for 6months, the other worked in a petrol station for a few months to keep money comming in the door. Who has shown they are not lazy and they will get the job done?

DeaKat

fret_wimp2 wrote: »

An attitude that helps keep us in the shape we are in. I often wondered why all/most the services jobs ( shop worker, waiter, etc etc) in Ireland were done by foreign nationals.

Now i see its becuase Irish people are too arrogant to do work they feel " is beneath them". The fact that there are so many international citizens here, working, and so many irish unemployed says a lot. They are willing to do an honest days work and dont think work "beneath them" where as irish people sneer at a job, think they are better than that and sit on the sofa.

If it came to it and i needed to keep food on the table id do what was necessary. if that means working in mc Donalds or behind a counter of a shop, so be it. its not my chosen profession, but its not below me at all.

People need to know that these jobs are not below them, and that any job is a step to a better job.

In an interview situation, two identically qualified candidates come in. one has been on the dole for 6months, the other worked in a petrol station for a few months to keep money comming in the door. Who has shown they are not lazy and they will get the job done?

I am assuming (as you quoted me) that you have aimed your post at me as an example of someone who is 'arrogant' and 'sneers at a job below them' while 'sitting on the sofa'. As I said, I have spent to long working and putting time into my education to work at a job like mcdonalds, or picking up garbage, or at a petrol station. You DO NOT know the situations that people are in, and your sweeping attitude is offensive. For the record, I AM NOT on social welfare. We are a family in our thirties with young children who worked bloody hard during the celtic tiger, didn't overextend or buy a house - because we couldn't afford it, we paid for our educations, paid prsi (which should be supporting us and people LIKE us in situations where we cannot get employment.) I didn't work and get my degrees and pay taxes to work in a non skilled job utterly non related to my profession- this is not arrogant. The recent budget has hit families like ours extremely hard, and I resent comments suggesting that its people like me that have this country in the state it is currently in. If the government did what it SHOULD do, and invested in education (for example) and job creation for graduates, they would not be in a situation where people like me are being forced to consider taking our skills out of the country.

Voodoo_rasher

leave their West of Ireland , then they are sad, unadventurous, unambitious, lacking in imagination, and self-limiting. Let these Hardy Bucks you speak of stagnate in their one-horse towns. I'm sure you done better.

tenchi-fan

Voodoo_rasher wrote: »

leave their West of Ireland , then they are sad, unadventurous, unambitious, lacking in imagination, and self-limiting. Let these Hardy Bucks you speak of stagnate in their one-horse towns. I'm sure you done better.

In fairness, going to Dublin is hardly adventurous. It's a gray, soul destroying city with terrible traffic problems, too many dubs and too many immigrants. I'd sooner move to Drogheda.

pow wow

locgo wrote: »

I'm sorry pow_wow but i think you are stero typing here, of course there are people who don't want to work but there are hundreds of people who want to work and on another note maybe its impossible for some people to move to bigger cities such as Dublin as they have got themselves into so much financial trouble they can't afford the rent..... REALLY you made my blood boil just a little with this statement

Firstly I didn't say anything about people not wanting to work in a general sense. The OP's post was a specific proposition about people who were unable (not unwilling) to secure work at home and whether they should be encouraged/forced to migrate to get work. Secondly my post referred to people who are reasonably able to move - if someone can't afford rent then clearly they aren't reasonably able to move, likewise if they have a huge mortgage, kids, other ties that prevent them from leaving etc.

I stand by my post 100%, if someone is unable to secure work near their hometown and are reasonably able to leave for somewhere where they have a better chance of getting work, why shouldn't they?

kadman

JustMary wrote: »

At 57, you've still got one fifth of your working life ahead of you, and you're not too old to move at all.

I have no problem with you getting short-term support - because I assume that there was work where you are now.

But medium-term, unless you've got caregiving responsibilites, then I don't think that it's the government's responsibility to support you if you won't help yourself. Blaming the government, which your fellow-citizens elected, makes for good rhetoric, but doesn't help you fix your problem.

I,m not afraid to travel to any job, no matter where it is, if it pays me to do so. I spent 15 years travelling 120 mile return, everyday, to Dublin from the midlands for work. And that was prior to the boom times, and big wages.
I spent 2 years driving 200 miles return trip everyday to Sligo for work. So I am not afraid of travel.But I,m not about to for an internship or similar.

And if a suitable job comes up in Dublin that makes it financially viable for me to go for, then I,ll send a cv in for it.

But I draw the line on enforcing anyone else to travel, or get their payments stopped if they dont. The unemployed are victims of the recession, not the causes of it.

Any opportunity at future employment for me, has been undermined by the governments mickey mouse schemes. What employer is going to take some one of my age for a role, when they have access to a ready supply of young well educated graduates, for nothing. Get real.


kadman

Toasterspark

kadman wrote: »

Any opportunity at future employment for me, has been undermined by the governments mickey mouse schemes. What employer is going to take some one of my age for a role, when they have access to a ready supply of young well educated graduates, for nothing. Get real.

This is what really frustrates me, and it's becoming more and more prevalent. Entry-level jobs have been wiped out because of these work-for-nothing (or next to nothing) schemes.

I managed to scrape together a year's admin/office experience since graduating, but I know for a fact that similar roles to those I worked in are now being offered as 'internships'. I was damn lucky to find those paid roles - internships have cut off any chance of me getting a start working anywhere. It's got to the stage where I'm expected to be thankful for the chance to work for nothing.

I'm not under any illusions, and I don't have a sense of entitlement. I just want to get a foot in the door somewhere and actually get paid to work so I can afford to live.

kadman

The constitution guarantees the support of the less well off in society, regardless of what some here might think on the support of those people in times of need.

It is also supposed to protect against the exploitation of the public, by private enterprise. Seems to me that something is lacking.

kadman

Article 45
The principles of social policy set forth in this Article are intended for the general guidance of the Oireachtas. The application of those principles in the making of laws shall be the care of the Oireachtas exclusively, and shall not be cognisable by any Court under any of the provisions of this Constitution.
1. The State shall strive to promote the welfare of the whole people by securing and protecting as effectively as it may a social order in which justice and charity shall inform all the institutions of the national life.
2. The State shall, in particular, direct its policy towards securing:
i. That the citizens (all of whom, men and women equally, have the right to an adequate means of livelihood) may through their occupations find the means of making reasonable provision for their domestic needs.
ii. That the ownership and control of the material resources of the community may be so distributed amongst private individuals and the various classes as best to subserve the common good.
iii. That, especially, the operation of free competition shall not be allowed so to develop as to result in the concentration of the ownership or control of essential commodities in a few individuals to the common detriment.
iv. That in what pertains to the control of credit the constant and predominant aim shall be the welfare of the people as a whole.
v. That there may be established on the land in economic security as many families as in the circumstances shall be practicable.
3. 1° The State shall favour and, where necessary, supplement private initiative in industry and commerce.
2° The State shall endeavour to secure that private enterprise shall be so conducted as to ensure reasonable efficiency in the production and distribution of goods and as to protect the public against unjust exploitation.
4. 1° The State pledges itself to safeguard with especial care the economic interests of the weaker sections of the community, and, where necessary, to contribute to the support of the infirm, the widow, the orphan, and the aged.2° The State shall endeavour to ensure that the strength and health of workers, men and women, and the tender age of children shall not be abused and that citizens shall not be forced by economic necessity to enter avocations unsuited to their sex, age or strength

.

britespark

mickman wrote: »

we could get the army in to move em!

ye the f C A

tenchi-fan

Toasterspark wrote: »

This is what really frustrates me, and it's becoming more and more prevalent. Entry-level jobs have been wiped out because of these work-for-nothing (or next to nothing) schemes.

Here's an internship in a petrol station!

40 hour week, 9 months.. Responsibilities include operating a modern till and washing cars. you'll be assigned a MENTOR!

It really is pathetic. The government is giving taxpayers money to these crooks.

I certainly won't be using Dealgan Service Station any time soon.

SillyMcCarthy

fret_wimp2 wrote: »

Before anyone gets annoyed, i am just asking opinion, and i am not stating that this applies to everyone.

I have many friends back in the west of ireland with college degrees and qualifications. Due to whatever reason they are now unemployed, collecting unemployment benefits.

The majority of these people are mid/late 20's, no family of their own, not married, no mortgate.

They could have a job if they moved to Dublin ( im pretty sure of this), but they wont even look at whats available as they dont want to leave their home town.


These are people with valid skills that are actually in demand but i think their refulal to move to where the work is a refusal to work.

Should there be laws saying that if you have no significant ties ( kids, sick family, mortgate etc etc), and you can get a job in another county you have to take it?

If i decided to stay at home i wouldnt have a job either, but i moved to where the work was, and id do it again if i had to, even if it meant leaving the country.

A scheme that matches people with jobs around the country, rather than just in their area would fill many more jobs, and laws ensuring your unemployment was only available if you cant get a job ANYWHERE would ensure people have to work.

what are your opinions on this?

What are your circumstances & you are living in the area that you were born in?

kadman

Here,s a thought.

Maybe the government should have brought in a job sharing scheme. Whereby those with jobs , share it with those unemplyed. It would give the unemployed an opportunity to earn minumum wage , or better ,for at least 20 hours per week. And let them claim for the other remaining 3 days. And let the other participant do the same.

And also give them free travel passes for 3 days each week, validated by their employer, if they are travelling to a city for work.It would also give the employed worker some idea of what life is like on the dole, instead of blaming the unemployed for the ills of the country.

kadman