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Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 - Mod Note 4153

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,403 ✭✭✭✭Turtyturd


    mixednuts wrote: »
    Maxi Rodriguez goals tally is no fluke .his positional play is so underrated and he nearly always takes a CB out of a game with his movement .
    He may not be the prettiest player to watch but he really is as unsung hero when he plays .

    Putting individual performances aside the best thing about the past three games has been the the way we played as a unit .
    Offensively we are a right handful , and in defence I am no longer getting a mini cardiac when the ball enters the box .

    If we are starting to see the foundations of the Kenny&Clarke era then the future looks very bright .

    Some nice intelligent player purchases in the next couple of windows , and blood a few of the exceptional potential we have in reserve and i feel we will be very strong force in the medium term .


    Long may it last .

    He'll also be playing for Chelsea come Februaray


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,952 ✭✭✭Morzadec


    Mr Alan wrote: »
    £15m offer for Torres in Jan please Mr Henry.

    Striking options of Suarez,Carroll,Torres,Bellamy & Kuyt would be sexual.

    £15m plus the very high wages he would require...I don't know if he's worth it anymore to be quite honest.

    I honestly think he has lost it as a top player. Could be worth the risk to hope that he would rediscover his Anfield form, but for me he's not even a shadow of his former self.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Turtyturd wrote: »
    He'll also be playing for Chelsea come Februaray

    £50m + Torres


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Leiva


    http://www.sabotagetimes.com/footbal...ve-midfielder/
    How Liverpool’s Lucas Leiva Became The World’s Best Defensive Midfielder

    An ever present for Brazil and Liverpool, the once-maligned destroyer has statistically outperformed his European peers for the last 18 months. Reds will be hoping today's scan on his left knee is positive...
    51124586_011204578-1-e1322641499852.jpeg

    Three years ago, Liverpool had the best midfield in the world. The Kop even sang a song about it. ‘We’ve got Xabi Alonso… Momo Sissoko… Gerrard and Mas-cher-aaaaa-noooooo!”

    Meanwhile on Merseyside, quietly trying to make his way in a new country with a starkly alien culture and very little initial grasp of the English language, was a young reserve player with flowing blond locks and a vivacious enthusiasm for the game.

    He’d arrived for big money, billed as a prodigious creative midfielder from football’s exotic homeland of flair and fancy. Still a teenager, he had just one senior season under his belt, but in that one campaign he’d led Gremio to the Copa Libertadores final while still a teenager, and in the process became the youngest ever recipient of the Brazilian league’s award for player of the year. Younger than Tevez had been. Younger than Kaka, than Ronaldo, than Zico even.

    Goldielocks had undeniable pedigree. But reputation counts for nothing when you’re trying to break into Rafa Benitez’s glittering, Champions League-winning engine room.

    He’d wait for an injury or a suspension, and then stumble into a cauldron of pressure and impatience. In replacing Xabi Alonso, the world’s foremost holding midfielder, or Steven Gerrard, the league’s ultimate deep-lying attacking force, this timid novice was expected to swim a medley in the deep end against the currant of football’s most ferocious and unforgiving tide. Nobody ever said it was going to be easy. And so it proved.

    Lucas Pezzini Leiva is an educated middle class lad from the small city of Dourados, close to the border of Paraguay in Brazil’s south west. He was prepped for a career in business or economics before his outstanding ability on the football pitch took over. But during his first couple of years in England, he might’ve considered falling back on his academic qualities.

    As far as they were concerned, he was overhyped, overpaid and lacking the cajones to make an impact in the big league. His fleeting appearances offered little evidence of the sparkling report Benitez had attributed to him. He was both sloppy and inhibited. And what’s more, he wasn’t in any way creative. He didn’t even approach doors, let alone prise them open. Liverpool fans were expecting the new Kaka. But at his best, Lucas was a mild improvement on Igor Biscan. At his worst, he was a Sunday league chaser with the composure of a schizophrenic chicken.

    It all came to a head during the 2008/09 season. Leiva had been struggling to find his feet in the big league, and giving away a last minute penalty at Wigan, and then getting sent off in the derby against Everton – all in the space of seven days – only compounded his misery. Being booed by the Anfield faithful during a disappointing draw with Fulham could’ve been the last straw, but his manager protected his fledgling. “Some day, people will realise how good Lucas is,” forecasted Rafa Benitez.

    Fast forward three years and that day Benitez predicted has now been and gone…

    While Liverpool stuttered – initially in the latter days of Benitez’s reign, and then so markedly under Roy Hodgson – Lucas quietly, rapidly grew. His shyness evaporated as his shoulders became broader. His reluctance to put a foot wrong was superseded by his drive to make a difference, to meet the ball, to commit defenders, to probe with his passes, to rally the troops around him. That Lucas has become one of the pearls in Benitez’s Anfield legacy is testament to the Spaniard’s foresight and perseverance.

    Not only are Liverpool fans now in full agreement as to the multifacted qualities Lucas provides, the 24-year-old’s stock has risen dramatically in wider circles, too. He is a regular in the full Brazil national team and could well captain the Selecao on home soil at the next World Cup. Elsewhere, Kenny Dalglish has fended off approaches for Lucas from powerhouses in Spain and Italy in recent months.

    It’s little wonder there’s been interest. This season, the rebranded Lucas has been Liverpool’s best player. In the absence of Gerrard, and latterly of Carragher too, the dynamic Brazilian has developed into a focal point, and something of a natural leader. His fine example – superhuman work rate, cutting edge decision making, strength and desire in combat – has been an infectious influence among the newer signings beside him, and will only benefit his absent captain upon his 2012 return.

    Leiva made more tackles and interceptions than anyone across Europe’s biggest four leagues last term. He’s already top of such stats this season. At Chelsea two weeks ago, he bossed from start to finish, gliding effortlessly around the Stamford Bridge turf, picking off Blues attacks and instinctively starting his own team’s counters in an instant. Last week at home to table-topping Man City, he played better still, stifling David Silva’s artistry and Yaya Toure’s power with his own single-handed combination of energy, craft and cunning. And last night, until his injury, he not only smashed Torres twice, he provided the rock-solid platform for Bellamy to wreak havoc.

    Meanwhile, he’s also punching well above his weight in pass completion stats, and the method and destination of his staple use of the ball has improved immeasurably. No longer does he take the easy option by popping the ball off sideways or backwards for the sake of it. No longer does he pass the buck. In a round about way, he is evolving into the creator he was originally billed to be. But in addition, he’s an enforcer and a water-carrier all rolled into one.

    Lucas Leiva not only looks at home swimming in football’s deep end these days, he’s leading a synchronised visual masterpiece in the middle of the Premier League’s choppy waters.

    And while Liverpool may no longer possess the greatest midfield in the world, they might just have one of the planet’s great midfielders of the next decade.

    Can we please agree that this article along with the excellent post made by Slickric yesterday be the end of the questioning of Lucas ability .

    Yes we can comment on a bad match display but to question than mans ability from here on in would be ridiculous .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,773 ✭✭✭Speak Now


    Saw 18 months in the first sentence above and had a heart attack :mad:


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,385 ✭✭✭✭D'Agger


    Ikky Poo2 wrote: »
    I'll tell you in three games' time.
    This, I've no problem with Liverpool fans being excited with the way we've played in the last two weeks or so, I've no problem with us looking forwards to the next few games.

    But this stuff of turning a corner is tripe imo - we've always done well against the bigger teams - we've always had it in us to up it a notch. Now, I'm personally very happy with the way things are going - we're headed in the right direction.

    But we're facing our biggest tests in the coming weeks - playing teams we should be beating. It's our achilles heel that we drop stupid points to teams we shouldn't be dropping them to.

    I'm enjoying the good mood on the thread atm but the hard work starts now imo


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,773 ✭✭✭Speak Now


    Lucas has 183 appearances for Liverpool already :eek:

    5 million looks a nice price now for that skinny 20 year old :)

    20 Brazilian caps as well

    Pushing on though, 25 in the new year ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,441 ✭✭✭Killme00


    ;)

    You're signature is causing epilepsy


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 88,968 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    In Opera (the best browser) right click "block content" (sadly doesn't work for actual users!)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,094 ✭✭✭✭Tusky


    Lucas has 183 appearances for Liverpool already :eek:

    5 million looks a nice price now for that skinny 20 year old :)

    20 Brazilian caps as well

    Pushing on though, 25 in the new year ;)

    The more time that passes, the more many of Rafas signings look better and better.

    It's safe to say that Reina, Agger, Skrtel, Lucas, Arbeloa, Alonso, Mascherano and Torres can all be classes as great signings and all very good value too. £20m profit on Alonso, £30m on Torres. Also, Reina, Agger, Skrtel and Lucas have all easily doubled in value.

    I would have loved to have seen Rafa get the kind of backing the new owners seem willing to give.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,385 ✭✭✭✭D'Agger


    Tusky wrote: »
    The more time that passes, many of Rafas signings look better.

    It's safe to say that Reina, Agger, Skrtel, Lucas, Arbeloa, Alonso, Mascherano and Torres can all be classes as great signings and all very good value too. £20m profit on Alonso, £30m on Torres. Also, Reina, Agger, Skrtel and Lucas have all easily doubled in value.

    I would have loved to have seen Rafa get the kind of backing the new owners seem willing to give.
    I wouldn't say Skrtel has tbh we bought him for 6m and wouldn't value him over 8m atm

    Reina signed for 6.5m iirc so he's tripled in value and Agger cost 5.5m or so - I wouldn't ever like to see him leave the club but if he did it'd want to be for over £15m - he's twice the player Gary Cahill is


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,094 ✭✭✭✭Tusky


    PaulieC wrote: »
    I wouldn't say Skrtel has tbh we bought him for 6m and wouldn't value him over 8m atm

    Reina signed for 6.5m iirc so he's tripled in value and Agger cost 5.5m or so - I wouldn't ever like to see him leave the club but if he did it'd want to be for over £15m - he's twice the player Gary Cahill is

    If Skrtel continues his form until the end of the season I would value him at £12m easily. Hes coming into his peak years.

    And I reckon £18m odd for Reina is undervaluing him so he an Agger have more than tripled in value.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,474 ✭✭✭Crazy Horse 6


    The complaining about Carroll's performance is well out of order in my opinion. He won a lot of difficult ball that was played up to him and played some very nice passes while under a lot of pressure, the way we played last night that was his job.

    He was also in the box plenty but was too isolated or poor ball was played into him, I really think some people want him to fail and will tear apart his performance and look for anything they can to use against him.
    animated_gifs_28_08.gif


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,550 ✭✭✭VW 1


    And tbh, Lucas for 5m, he is easily worth 15-18 imo on last season and current seasons form so another tripling in value.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,952 ✭✭✭Morzadec


    I agree with Paulie C, too early to class Skrtel as a very good signing, certainly not when you compare him to Reina, Agger, Lucas etc...

    But agree, Rafa was often slated for his work in the transfer market but he did a lot more good than bad. Even top managers make some mistakes with players, Fergie has made his fair share too


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,474 ✭✭✭Crazy Horse 6


    VW 1 wrote: »
    And tbh, Lucas for 5m, he is easily worth 15-18 imo on last season and current seasons form so another tripling in value.

    I could'nt see Liverpool selling him for anything under 25m tbh. Not much out there that do a better job than what he does.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    Skrtel is only good when he has a class centre back beside him. I wouldn't have much faith in him beside carragher or Coates so I certainly can't see any team paying £12m for him.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,550 ✭✭✭VW 1


    On the subject of Lucas as a holding midfielder and being one of the best in Europe in the position on his current form, would you rate him as highly as Alonso when he was there in his prime? Or has he still a bit of developing to do to get to that level?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,832 ✭✭✭✭Blatter


    VW 1 wrote: »
    On the subject of Lucas as a holding midfielder and being one of the best in Europe in the position on his current form, would you rate him as highly as Alonso when he was there in his prime? Or has he still a bit of developing to do to get to that level?

    Lucas will never me an Alonso, he doesn't have the passing ability and intelligence to get mentioned in the same breath.

    I'd liken Lucas more to Mascherano, but still a little bit off that level.

    On the subject of the best DM in Europe, it has to be Busquets imo.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 88,968 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    and he used to be quite ****e


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,682 ✭✭✭✭SlickRic


    VW 1 wrote: »
    On the subject of Lucas as a holding midfielder and being one of the best in Europe in the position on his current form, would you rate him as highly as Alonso when he was there in his prime? Or has he still a bit of developing to do to get to that level?

    not there yet at all.

    but he is getting there, certainly.

    people will scoff at that, but such is the improvement in Lucas' passing range over the last 18 months, that he's certainly not THAT far off anymore.

    but Alonso is fairly easily still the standard bearer in that quarterback role. he can hit passes, on point, from just about anywhere, from any angle. everything goes through him.

    i'm very happy with Lucas though, and wouldn't swap him for any other DM right now, given his age, the trajectory of his improvement, and the possibility of him getting somewhere near to Alonso's current standard one day.

    (ok, maybe Busquets) :pac:

    yes, there is a chance, and i can't believe those words are coming out of my mouth :pac: a lot of hard work to go.

    he's too techncially good to be classed as a Mascherano type. his passing range has evolved beyond Masch's.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,550 ✭✭✭VW 1


    Blatter wrote: »
    Lucas will never me an Alonso, he doesn't have the passing ability and intelligence to get mentioned in the same breath.

    I'd liken Lucas more to Mascherano, but still a little bit off that level.

    On the subject of the best DM in Europe, it has to be Busquets imo.

    But Lucas' passing and distribution is getting a lot more attacking and incisive (The reason why I hinted at development- with another 18months under his belt like the last 18, he could hit those heights), he doesnt have the range of Hollywood passing that Alonso has but he rarely concedes possession and is extremly effective at breaking up play. I wouldnt imagine he is anyway far off Mascherano's level imo, but definitely agree about Busquets, much and all as I cant stand him.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    He's far better then Masch offensively. He can make some excellent passes like similar to Alonso but he doesn't have the attacking intelligence Alonso had, not sure he will ever reach that level but he definitly should improve. Defensively he's much better then Alonso so it's hard to compare them really. I think his importance to us is similar to Alonso though.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,832 ✭✭✭✭Blatter


    I honestly don't know of one player that reached Alonso's passing ability/vision, that didn't show some signs of it from an early age.

    Only a handful if those type of players exist in football. Scholes was kind of like it in his later days, and then Pirlo and Alonso.

    It's a rare enough type of player and while Lucas' passing/vision has improved, I'd be shocked to see it get anywhere near the level of the above names.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,832 ✭✭✭✭Blatter


    VW 1 wrote: »
    But Lucas' passing and distribution is getting a lot more attacking and incisive (The reason why I hinted at development- with another 18months under his belt like the last 18, he could hit those heights), he doesnt have the range of Hollywood passing that Alonso has but he rarely concedes possession and is extremly effective at breaking up play. I wouldnt imagine he is anyway far off Mascherano's level imo, but definitely agree about Busquets, much and all as I cant stand him.
    He's far better then Masch offensively. He can make some excellent passes like similar to Alonso but he doesn't have the attacking intelligence Alonso had, not sure he will ever reach that level but he definitly should improve. Defensively he's much better then Alonso so it's hard to compare them really. I think his importance to us is similar to Alonso though.


    He's definitely better than Mascherano offensively, but I'd still class him closer to Mascherano than Alonso as the Alonso intelligence just isn't there and I'm not sure it's the sort of thing you can suddenly develop and reach a world class standard in.

    I'd class Lucas as a Roy Keane type player. Obviously not at that level, and may never reach it but time will tell. Very good asset to have.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,372 ✭✭✭✭Mr Alan


    Tusky wrote: »
    I would have loved to have seen Rafa get the kind of backing the new owners seem willing to give.

    Ditto.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,267 ✭✭✭opr


    I would love to see Rafa in the Comolli role as director of football but I can't see that happening.

    Opr


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,697 ✭✭✭MaceFace


    I actually think Lucas is a mix of both Alonso and Masch. Works harder than the former and more skillfull than the latter.

    Alonso was a fantastic player for us but I remember so many games that he was anonymous.

    The great thing though is he has actually learned how to play football. Last year or two we had very few players who were good on the ball. Skrtel, Carra, Johnson(he was poor), Lucas, Spearo, Kuyt, Ngog. It was impossible to keep the ball.
    Now I think Skrtel is the only player who I would consider poor on the ball. Other players may need to improve, but they are ball players.

    Lucas has come on so much over the last 12 months and every part of his game has come on. I do wonder if he has flourished in the absence of Gerrard without having the pressure of such a great player beside him, he has had to take the responsibility.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,942 ✭✭✭missingtime


    opr wrote: »
    I would love to see Rafa in the Comolli role as director of football but I can't see that happening.

    Opr

    Would be a very interesting prospect.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,682 ✭✭✭✭SlickRic


    MaceFace wrote: »
    I do wonder if he has flourished in the absence of Gerrard without having the pressure of such a great player beside him, he has had to take the responsibility.

    in all honesty, that's not the worst analysis in the world.

    it probably wasn't easy.

    though Stevie is one of the ones that has stuck by Lucas and vouched for his quality over the years.


This discussion has been closed.
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