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Men asking their girlfriend's father for permission to propose to her

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Comments

  • #62
    irelandrover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,113 ✭✭✭irelandrover


    LeeHoffmann wrote: »
    This particular tradition is incredibly sexist, as are certain other particular wedding traditions. It seems you missed that point. People are also entitled to pick and choose which traditions they honour.

    It just seems incredibly hypocritical to me if the woman gets really upset about one sexist tradition and then expects another.


  • #63
    Flyin Irishman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 477 ✭✭Flyin Irishman


    I never thought the tradition of asking the girl's father came from the tradition of the bride's father paying for the wedding. I always thought it stemmed from the days when a man was the provider for his family, and untill a girl was married, her father provides for her. Therefore a man would ask permission from the father - basically asking if the father felt he was good enough to provide for his daughter.

    The tradition of the father of the bride paying for the wedding came as a replacement of a dowery, where a father would give a gift of land or money to his daughters new husband, to help him provide for his daughter - sort of his last act of providing for her and making sure she'll be looked after.


    While it's all out-dated and irrelevant now, I definitely think that if/when I decide I'd like to ask my gf to marry me, I would look for her parents blessing, as I feel there's more to getting married than just declaring you want to spend the rest of your lives together. For me, it's you bringing someone into your family, and you becoming a part of theirs. So while I wouldn't be asking permission to marry my girlfriend, I dont think I would ask her to marry me if I didnt have her parents blessing to join their family. I'd probably ask them again in a while, and repeat until they relent and let me in :D


  • #64
    LeeHoffmann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,770 ✭✭✭LeeHoffmann


    I thought the two of us getting engagement rings was egalitarian, romantic and fair. I just don't like how some posters assume women are going to be tres unreasonable and demand a ring for themselves and nothing for their OH.

    Congrats on your engagement too btw :)


  • #65
    LeeHoffmann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,770 ✭✭✭LeeHoffmann


    It just seems incredibly hypocritical to me if the woman gets really upset about one sexist tradition and then expects another.
    not all traditions are sexist though


  • #66
    j8wk2feszrnpao
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭j8wk2feszrnpao


    It's not sexist, and it's not stupid to do it. It's up to the individual to do it.
    It's like holding a door open for a women/girl/lady, it's a tradition, no big deal, just a sign of respect for the parents if they are into that (and maybe the girl herself might like it).

    You don't have to treat them differently by holding the door, giving up your bus seat, buying them the engagement ring (without you receiving a similar priced gift), but hey it's just a good/nice/civilized/ thing to do, it's no big deal.

    It's not a requirement (it never has been), it's not sexist (at least not these days, perhaps on occasions in the past), it's not stupid (it's no longer really a 'permission' thing), it's just a gesture (if they say no, and you both don't care, then it's not going to make much difference).

    Personally I wouldn't have a problem doing it, I don't really care either way, so I'd ask my girlfriend first to see what she/they would think. Knowing them as I do, they might like it (just to let them know first), but they wouldn't care if we got married/eloped/used a registry office/headed to Vegas, just as long as we're happy.

    Those calling it sexist need to start educating themselves on what sexism really is.


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  • #67
    Pherekydes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,339 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    LeeHoffmann wrote: »
    Do you mean do I want an engagement ring? I'm one of those women who wouldn't want my OH to ask my Dad's permission and we are engaged. Both of us got engagement rings and I was happy with that. I'm not telling you what my wedding dress looks like! :P A half joke...I'd like a nice wedding dress and most of the nice wedding dresses are white and white looks good on me, so I'd have no problem wearing a white dress - but I don't see how wearing a white wedding dress is analogous to asking a man permission to marry his daughter

    The point he's trying to make, in a half-arsed way, is that the 'wedding traditions' are a complete package -proposal, permission, ring, white wedding, honeymoon- and you must take all of them or none of them, which is nonsense.

    The permission and 'giving away' harks back to the Romans, when the man was head of the family and 'owned' every person in it and his permission was legally required for the hand of his daughter.

    Rings, white weddings and honeymoons came much later and so have nothing to do with the 'package'.

    If any daughter of mine has a future husband ask my permission I'll refuse, slap her* and tell her to do better next time.

    *not literally


  • #68
    biko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,060 ✭✭✭✭biko


    I would ask, but no camels!


  • #69
    Malari
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,150 ✭✭✭✭Malari


    irelandrover wrote: »
    Ok so, from the women who don't want their partners to ask their fathers permission the following questions.

    Do you still want an engagement ring? Yes, maybe, but I wouldn't expect him to buy it
    Are you going to wear a white dress? No
    Would you ask the man to marry you or do you expect him to ask you? No, it would be a mutual discussion

    Do I pass your consistency test? :rolleyes:

    Can I ask you, if you thinking asking your wife-elect's father is appropriate:

    Do you also expect your fiance to be a virgin?
    Would you be ok with living together before you marry?
    Do you think it's ok to have sex before you marry?


  • #70
    irelandrover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,113 ✭✭✭irelandrover


    Pherekydes wrote: »
    The point he's trying to make, in a half-arsed way, is that the 'wedding traditions' are a complete package -proposal, permission, ring, white wedding, honeymoon- and you must take all of them or none of them, which is nonsense.

    I realise i wasnt even a little bit clear. The mention of the dress confused things. My point is that a lot of the traditions are sexist. Asking permission of the father, the man asking, the man buying the ring yet it is only the asking permission that a lot of people complain about.
    And it is strange to me that people get offended by one sexist tradition and seem to accept others.


  • #71
    aidan24326
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,925 ✭✭✭aidan24326


    Sykk wrote: »
    The only way it's sexist is if you're discussing a dowry. Asking permission of the father is a sign of respect. Calling it sexist is just more feminist bs.

    It isn't in this case. Why is it a sign of respect to the father? Why should it be any of his business if you're planning to propose to his daughter? It isn't. If you're planning to get married you tell your respective families in due course. They don't need to know until you're good and ready to tell them. (unless they're paying for it in which case it would be only fair to discuss it with them sooner rather than later).


    foxyboxer wrote: »
    It's tradition. An outdated one but still a nice tradition.

    It stems from the idea that he'll probably be paying for it (or contributing a lot) so it's a small price to pay!


    There's nothing 'nice' about it. Telling the dad before you've even asked your gf/discussed it with her is totally disrespectful. Your gf should be the first one to know. You're not marrying her fcuking dad.

    And yes it used to be traditional for the bride's father to pay but that tradition has all but died out. Most couples I know paid for most or even all of it themselves with parents making a contribution (or not) at their own discretion.


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  • #72
    LeeHoffmann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,770 ✭✭✭LeeHoffmann


    Those calling it sexist need to start educating themselves on what sexism really is.
    I'm well aware of what sexism is thanks. I also think that holding doors open only for women (and not for men) is sexist. You know why? Because it fits the definition of sexism:
    discrimination on the basis of sex
    attitudes or behavior based on traditional stereotypes of sexual roles.


  • #73
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,808 ✭✭✭✭smash


    irelandrover wrote: »
    It just seems incredibly hypocritical to me if the woman gets really upset about one sexist tradition and then expects another.
    Look at what they listen to...

    "If you liked it then you should have put a ring on it..."

    "I buy my own diamonds and I buy my own rings..."

    "Who run the world? Girls!..."

    "can you pay my bills , can you pay my telephone bills, can you pay my automo'bills, then maybe we can chill, I don't think you do, so you and me are through..."

    Obviously they're confused as fúck.


  • #74
    irelandrover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,113 ✭✭✭irelandrover


    Malari wrote: »
    Do you still want an engagement ring? Yes, maybe, but I wouldn't expect him to buy it
    Are you going to wear a white dress? No
    Would you ask the man to marry you or do you expect him to ask you? No, it would be a mutual discussion

    Do I pass your consistency test? :rolleyes:

    Can I ask you, if you thinking asking your wife-elect's father is appropriate:

    Do you also expect your fiance to be a virgin?
    Would you be ok with living together before you marry?
    Do you think it's ok to have sex before you marry?

    I got engaged recently. I didnt ask permission of the father before I asked. In my opinion a mutual discussion still has to begin by someone asking. The problem I have is the people who find one tradition sexist but seem to accept others.
    So yeah, you passed the consistency test.


  • #75
    foxyboxer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,528 ✭✭✭foxyboxer


    aidan24326 wrote: »
    It isn't in this case. Why is it a sign of respect to the father? Why should it be any of his business if you're planning to propose to his daughter? It isn't. If you're planning to get married you tell your respective families in due course. They don't need to know until you're good and ready to tell them. (unless they're paying for it in which case it would be only fair to discuss it with them sooner rather than later).






    There's nothing 'nice' about it. Telling the dad before you've even asked your gf/discussed it with her is totally disrespectful. Your gf should be the first one to know. You're not marrying her fcuking dad.

    And yes it used to be traditional for the bride's father to pay but that tradition has all but died out. Most couples I know paid for most or even all of it themselves with parents making a contribution (or not) at their own discretion.

    I would have thought that this is done first though? Then getting 'approval' for the wedding.


  • #76
    LeeHoffmann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,770 ✭✭✭LeeHoffmann


    Look at what they listen to...

    "If you liked it then you should have put a ring on it..."

    "I buy my own diamonds and I buy my own rings..."

    "Who run the world? Girls!..."

    "can you pay my bills , can you pay my telephone bills, can you pay my automo'bills, then maybe we can chill, I don't think you do, so you and me are through..."

    Obviously they're confused as fúck.
    smash I could be wrong but are they not all quotes from one singer, Beyonce? Maybe the one woman (and I think this is even a stretch) is confused and not the entirety of womankind?


  • #77
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,808 ✭✭✭✭smash


    LeeHoffmann wrote: »
    smash I could be wrong but are they not all quotes from one singer, Beyonce? Maybe the one woman (and I think this is even a stretch) is confused and not the entirety of womankind?
    Unfortunately, 90%+ of women love her and look up to her!


  • #78
    LeeHoffmann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,770 ✭✭✭LeeHoffmann


    can you link to the scientific survey that yielded that result smash?


  • #79
    Malari
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,150 ✭✭✭✭Malari


    LeeHoffmann wrote: »
    smash I could be wrong but are they not all quotes from one singer, Beyonce? Maybe the one woman (and I think this is even a stretch) is confused and not the entirety of womankind?

    Or, y'know, is just singing a song?! And the lyrics are not entirely 100% reflective of the way she sees women in society?

    Does Lady Gaga actually have to be convinced she and other women must maintain a "poker face"? Is she condoning the approach of a crazed fan in order to get someone famous to fall for you in "Paparazzi"? :eek::confused::rolleyes:


  • #80
    Hannibal Smith
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,893 ✭✭✭Hannibal Smith


    My husband asked my dad for permission. I loved that he asked and my dad was chuffed to bits...though his response was 'what are you asking me for? Surely you should be asking her?' lol

    My husband didn't do it for me, or for himself, it was just a nice thing to do for my dad really, getting in with the father in law and all that ;)


  • #81
    j8wk2feszrnpao
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭j8wk2feszrnpao


    LeeHoffmann wrote: »
    I'm well aware of what sexism is thanks. I also think that holding doors open only for women (and not for men) is sexist. You know why? Because it fits the definition of sexism:


    Holding doors open only for women and not for men is sexist. I agree. Pretty sure that I didn't say otherwise.

    But going to the parents of the bride for a simple "I'm asking for your daughters hand in marriage" or "Your daughter and I are getting married and we would like your approval (but we're doing it anyway)" and getting a simple approval/thanks/hug/kiss/handshake from them isn't sexist.

    It would be sexist if the daughter had no say in the matter, and the husband-to-be went to the father for permission to marry and the daughter had to comply with whatever the father said. That would be sexist, but this isn't the case.


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  • #82
    ScumLord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,787 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    It's always worth asking the father, I got the option to lease and to trade her in for a younger daughter in 2 years.


  • #83
    scholar007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 902 ✭✭✭scholar007


    ILikeBananas wrote: »
    What's your feelings on this topic?

    Personally I've mixed feelings on the whole thing:

    On the positive side it shows respect and is like an acceptance from the girls family.

    On the negative side it's kind of backward and completely sexist. It's like "Be quiet woman, the men are talking now". Like why not ask the mother for her permission? And why doesn't the girl contact the guys family and say "John has asked me to marry him but I wanted to see if it was ok with you first before I accepted". Sounds crazy right? But that's exactly what's happening the other way round.

    In the end, like most men, I'd probably end up doing whatever it was I thought she wanted me to do.


    Knock her up and her dad will ask you can you marry her.


  • #84
    Fear Uladh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 810 ✭✭✭Fear Uladh


    Jesus Christ, can one thread not descend into a "this is sexist!!111" monstrosity by the usual Self righteous superwomen in this forum?

    Anyway, it should be up to the couple themselves to decide what they want. Simple.


  • #85
    LeeHoffmann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,770 ✭✭✭LeeHoffmann


    It would be sexist if the daughter had no say in the matter, and the husband-to-be went to the father for permission to marry and the daughter had to comply with whatever the father said. That would be sexist, but this isn't the case.
    Asking the Dad for permission suggests that he can refuse it, that you need it, that the woman isn't able to decide entirely for herself. It began in those roots and still reflect those roots (though I agree with Dudess that there isn't any ill intent behind the tradition). If it's not sexist, then why does the man ask the father and not the woman ask the mother or both ask both sets of parents etc? It's a tradition in which men symbolically decide the future course of a woman's life


  • #86
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,808 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Hannibal Smith wrote: »
    My husband didn't do it for me, or for himself, it was just a nice thing to do for my dad really, getting in with the father in law and all that ;)

    I guess it's best to have your future father in law on your side when the stories emerge of how far you buried your face in the strippers ass crack at your stag party. :D


  • #87
    LeeHoffmann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,770 ✭✭✭LeeHoffmann


    it should be up to the couple themselves to decide what they want.
    Did anybody say otherwise? I think we all agree there should be no law passed in the Dail on the matter :rolleyes:


  • #88
    Johro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,705 ✭✭✭Johro


    ILikeBananas wrote: »
    What's your feelings on this topic?

    Personally I've mixed feelings on the whole thing:

    On the positive side it shows respect and is like an acceptance from the girls family.

    On the negative side it's kind of backward and completely sexist. .
    Permission? No. A blessing might be nice, but not essential either.
    Asking for 'permission' implies ownership in some way. It's backward imo.


  • #89
    IvyTheTerrible
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭IvyTheTerrible


    God, if my fella asked my dad's permission, he'd go WAY down in my estimation, and more than likely in my dad's estimation too.

    Obviously I would tell my family first if we got engaged.


  • #90
    Fear Uladh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 810 ✭✭✭Fear Uladh


    LeeHoffmann wrote: »
    Did anybody say otherwise?
    LeeHoffmann wrote: »
    Asking the Dad for permission suggests that he can refuse it, that you need it, that the woman isn't able to decide entirely for herself. It began in those roots and still reflect those roots (though I agree with Dudess that there isn't any ill intent behind the tradition). If it's not sexist, then why does the man ask the father and not the woman ask the mother or both ask both sets of parents etc? It's a tradition in which men symbolically decide the future course of a woman's life

    :rolleyes:


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  • #91
    Johro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,705 ✭✭✭Johro


    Chillaxe wrote: »
    :rolleyes:
    :confused:


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