RIP Gary Speed - Mod Note 292

ColeTrain · 29-11-2011 12:18AM

Liam O wrote: »

I don't know tbh, someone killing themselves in that fashion is quite selfish imo when you think about the young family he is leaving behind now probably emotionally scarred for life, obviously I don't know what was going on behind closed doors and I don't like disrespecting the dead but suicide really just gets to me. I'm saying this out of my own family's experience because I found myself quite angry at my cousin's stupidy to the point where those feelings almost cancelled out my sadness. Depression is a horrible thing obviously but suicide is a terrible decision imo and even though I know it is a sensitive subject and affects many, I honestly can't imagine ever being in any type of situation bar maybe a terminal illness and be able to go through with it.

The thing is, you're looking at things logically. In most of these cases I'd imagine the person who committed suicide was not thinking anyway what we would deem as normal. That is part of the illness itself. I used to hold the same viewpoint as you. I've gone to funerals of young people close to me and saw the pain that their passing created. Now I just feel sorry for all involved in these cases. How dark must their thoughts must be to go all the way and take their own life.

efb · 29-11-2011 12:21AM

Suicide is by definition a selfish act, its not condemning the person for doing it, but it is what it is.

If you can't go on for yourself go on for the sake of the ones that you love. Suicide can't be justified.

Hank Scorpio · 29-11-2011 12:24AM

efb wrote: »

I know what I'm talking about here.

In your opinion of course. They're is other threads on boards for this type of argument/discussion, I hope this thread isn't spoiled by it.

uncleoswald · 29-11-2011 12:25AM

efb wrote: »

How and why was what he said, I explained why it shouldn't be reported as suicide- as it increases the rate of suicide and b how
the how is what you quoted- thats what i took exception to.

So should the press lie or just not report how any deaths occur as it will be fairly obvious to spot otherwise?

Anyway as I said it was a misunderstanding about the 'how quote' so lets move on.

efb · 29-11-2011 12:27AM

"No foul play suspected" "police not looking for anyone in their enquires"

lots of way to say it, without saying it.

MagicMarker · 29-11-2011 12:31AM

efb wrote: »

Suicide is by definition a selfish act, its not condemning the person for doing it, but it is what it is.

If you can't go on for yourself go on for the sake of the ones that you love. Suicide can't be justified.

Don't be so ridiculous, it's clear that you haven't a clue.

niallo27 · 29-11-2011 12:33AM

efb wrote: »

Suicide is by definition a selfish act, its not condemning the person for doing it, but it is what it is.

If you can't go on for yourself go on for the sake of the ones that you love. Suicide can't be justified.

but their reasons for doing what they did being accepted can be understood, thats from my own personal experience anyway.

Chucky the tree · 29-11-2011 12:34AM

efb wrote: »

Suicide is by definition a selfish act, its not condemning the person for doing it, but it is what it is.

If you can't go on for yourself go on for the sake of the ones that you love. Suicide can't be justified.

So asking someone to go on with a situation they hate isn't selfish?

niallo27 · 29-11-2011 12:35AM

Chucky the tree wrote: »

So asking someone to go on with a situation they hate isn't selfish?

Good point that.

MagicMarker · 29-11-2011 12:37AM

fryup wrote: »

here it is

I haven't kept up with the thread, is it know what rumour he's referring to?

efb · 29-11-2011 12:39AM

Chucky the tree wrote: »

So asking someone to go on with life they hate/are not happy with isn't selfish?

if you are the other person you try to help them get through the dark place, not tell them not to kill themselves because of others. Telling them how much they mean to others may help dispel their feeling of worthlessness though.

But if you are the person feeling suicidal and you can't go on for yourself, you can try to go on for the sake of others.

efb · 29-11-2011 12:40AM

niallo27 wrote: »

but their reasons for doing what they did being accepted can be understood, thats from my own personal experience anyway.

I am not saying you can't understand the reasoning, but it doesn't make the act any less selfish.

uncleoswald · 29-11-2011 12:41AM

efb wrote: »

"No foul play suspected" "police not looking for anyone in their enquires"

lots of way to say it, without saying it.

But then you are just dancing around the word 'suicide.' Everyone will know exactly what happened anyway.

Suicide has been brushed under the carpet for far too long in Ireland, particularly in rural regions. While I understand that copycat suicides can occur in the immediate aftermath, I don't yours is a practical solution.

monkey9 · 29-11-2011 12:42AM

MagicMarker wrote: »

I haven't kept up with the thread, is it know what rumour he's referring to?

Just the rumour at the time that Gary Speed had died. That's why he texted to make sure he was ok and the rumour was untrue. Obviously, he never got a reply. Heartbreaking stuff!!

MUSEIST · 29-11-2011 12:43AM

efb wrote: »

if you are the other person you try to help them get through the dark place, not tell them not to kill themselves because of others. Telling them how much they mean to others may help dispel their feeling of worthlessness though.

But if you are the person feeling suicidal and you can't go on for yourself, you can try to go on for the sake of others.

Sadly though in depression people often think that family and friends would be better off if they were gone and this is how they feel and justify the act. It is not logical but thats where the mind goes sadly.

Da Shins Kelly · 29-11-2011 12:43AM

efb wrote: »

if you are the other person you try to help them get through the dark place, not tell them not to kill themselves because of others. Telling them how much they mean to others may help dispel their feeling of worthlessness though.

But if you are the person feeling suicidal and you can't go on for yourself, you can try to go on for the sake of others.

Does this debate really need to be brought up now? What's done is done, and it's a very sad situation for everyone involved. It's not really the time to be having arguments about whether suicide is selfish or not. It's the time for remembering someone and expressing condolences.

The suicide debate can be had another time.

efb · 29-11-2011 12:44AM

uncleoswald wrote: »

But then you are just dancing around the word 'suicide.' Everyone will know exactly what happened anyway.

Suicide has been brushed under the carpet for far too long in Ireland, particularly in rural regions. While I understand that copycat suicides can occur in the immediate aftermath, I don't yours is a practical solution.

well thats how it is reported and that method is accepted by the medical community.

MagicMarker · 29-11-2011 12:46AM

efb wrote: »

But if you are the person feeling suicidal and you can't go on for yourself, you can try to go on for the sake of others.

Often the victim has plummeted so deep into a state of depression they he/she feels that their family would be better off without them, if anything, inside their own head suicide is the most selfless act imaginable.

Saying a suicide victim is selfish for taking their own life is comparable to saying a cancer victim is selfish for getting cancer, depression is a disease.

But hey, carry on spouting BS all you want.

efb · 29-11-2011 12:48AM

MagicMarker wrote: »

Often the victim has plummeted so deep into a state of depression they he/she feels that their family would be better off without them, if anything, inside their own head suicide is the most selfless act imaginable.

Saying a suicide victim is selfish for taking their own life is comparable to saying a cancer victim is selfish for getting cancer, depression is a disease.

But hey, carry on spouting BS all you want.

i am saying the act of suicide is a selfish one.

I am very aware of what depression is.

MagicMarker · 29-11-2011 12:49AM

efb wrote: »

i am saying the act of suicide is a selfish one..

And I just explained to you how it's not.

efb · 29-11-2011 12:51AM

MagicMarker wrote: »

And I just explained to you how it's not.

know, you explained how people who are committing suicide have convinced the selfish act if, incorrectly, a selfless one.

This doesn't make the person selfish, they are not of sound mind, but the act, by definition, remains selfish.

Paul Tergat · 29-11-2011 12:53AM

ffs leave the thread for tributes wont ya?

MagicMarker · 29-11-2011 12:54AM

efb wrote: »

know, you explained how people who are committing suicide have convinced the selfish act if, incorrectly, a selfless one.

This doesn't make the person selfish, they are not of sound mind, but the act, by definition, remains selfish.

clubberlang12 · 29-11-2011 12:55AM

Typical f%^king Boards bull****. Can't even leave the thread as a condolences thread.

Crazy Horse 6 · 29-11-2011 12:57AM

Jesus this forum is the pits sometimes.

Strongbow10 · 29-11-2011 12:57AM

MagicMarker wrote: »

Often the victim has plummeted so deep into a state of depression they he/she feels that their family would be better off without them, if anything, inside their own head suicide is the most selfless act imaginable.

Saying a suicide victim is selfish for taking their own life is comparable to saying a cancer victim is selfish for getting cancer, depression is a disease.

But hey, carry on spouting BS all you want.

Well said, you took the words right out of my mouth.

There are minority instances where suicide is done on a whim however. Depression may not have been in the equation in Gary Speeds case, we may never know.

People can gossip all they want about the circumstances, its likely he had his demons but theres a chance something drastic occured in his personal life that left him distraught and unable to go on.

Its something we just don't know.

RIP Gary Speed, you were a great professional and you will be a great loss Welsh football and the game in general.

uncleoswald · 29-11-2011 01:03AM

efb wrote: »

well thats how it is reported and that method is accepted by the medical community.

Not very practical when talking about public figures is it? Yes of course the press should not delve into speculation, methods and photos of the scene, anything that might glorify the act. I believe research shows a greater impact on the method of suicide after such media story, rather then the amount of suicides. Pure speculation on my part, but I wonder is there an increase in people seeking help in the aftermath as well?

But I apologies for helping to dis-rail the tributes thread. Night and RIP to a true Premiership legend.

Mr.Nice Guy · 29-11-2011 01:38AM

I was shocked and saddened to hear of his death. He seemed to be doing so well with Wales and was a player fans of my generation and above both remembered and respected. I always enjoyed hearing him speak on television and he came across as a real gent. My thoughts and prayers are with his family and friends.

tinofapples · 29-11-2011 03:32AM

Rest in peace Gary. You have left a nice guy impression on all of us that watched football over the last 20+ years.

wonderboysam · 29-11-2011 03:37AM

RIP Speedo

RIP Gary Speed - Mod Note 292

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