RIP Gary Speed - Mod Note 292

quarryman

flahavaj wrote: »

Even if Speed wasn't depressed surely the fact that we are talking about mental health and giving males in particular the chance to open up about depression is a good thing full stop? I also fail to see how charities getting a chance to promote themselves could be seen in any way as a bad thing?

Because it's providing exposure for them by exploiting the unexplained death of an individual.

Just because the charity's intentions are good, in this instance, they have no relevance whatsoever without the full information.

I'm not just talking about charities. The media too will hype up the depression element, wheel out Collymore and play snippets of Robert Enke.

Even posters on here who have somehow related to the reasons behind Speed's death with their own lives. It's disappointing.

flahavaj

quarryman wrote: »

Because it's providing exposure for them by exploiting the unexplained death of an individual.

Just because the charity's intentions are good, in this instance, they have no relevance whatsoever without the full information.

I'm not just talking about charities. The media too will hype up the depression element, wheel out Collymore and play snippets of Robert Enke.

Even posters on here who have somehow related to Speed's death with their own lives. It's disappointing.

Again the fact that depression is being discussed more openly is a good thing, not a bad thing. Even if it arises from an incident that isn't depression based, making mental health issues less of a taboo can only be a good thing, full stop.

Talking about these thing is far from "disappointing." I hope the debate continues about depression even if it emerges Speed wasn't at all depressed. Its the one tiny crumb of positivity that could possibly com from his horrible horrible situation.

quarryman

flahavaj wrote: »

Again the fact that depression is being discussed more openly is a good thing, not a bad thing. Even if it arises from an incident that isn't depression based, making mental health issues less of a taboo can only be a good thing, full stop.

Talking about these thing is far from "disappointing." I hope the debate continues about depression even if it emerges Speed wasn't at all depressed. Its the one tiny crumb of positivity that could possibly com from his horrible horrible situation.

Fair point.

I'm just not sure people should be so quick to make instant assumptions in this particular case. Depression is rapidly becoming a media buzzword when referring to celebrities with "issues". It should be discussed openly and understood, by all means, but not in the context of this particularly sad death. Not yet anyway.

The_B_Man

Reading the arguments above, I'm not surprised this, so called, exploitation has happened. In fact, the more I re-read the above posts, the more similarities I draw with the global warming argument. Its happened before, and it'll happen again. Conclusions are drawn as to the cause, without 100% knowledge, with the effect of people coming in and trying to spread awareness for a cause. Right or wrong, they're goal is to achieve a better world. But by definition, there has to be bad for there to be a better world, and we can't ignore the catalysts to change.

Anyway, RIP Gary Speed.

osnola ibax

If it wasnt depression, then what was it? Can a man just flip in one moment and kill himself. Is that possible?

Im seriously asking this question.

SarahBM

Listening to the match on line tonight, I was just so proud to be a Leeds United supporter. The fans sang Gary Speed for 11mins and just when they stopped we scored, and got 3 more too. What game, very emotional.
I hope we can give Speedo an even better tribute at Elland road on Saturday
MOT

KittyeeTrix

osnola ivax wrote: »

If it wasnt depression, then what was it? Can a man just flip in one moment and kill himself. Is that possible?

Im seriously asking this question.

Yes. Unfortunately they can:(
The brother of a very good friend of mine had a silly bust up with his girlfriend one night and hung himself!!!
Totally out of character and to this day he would be the last lad on earth you'd expect to do such a thing......
Another friends sister hung herself where she was working one Saturday afternoon, again totally unexpected. Her boss became concerned when she didn't arrive back to the office-canteen area for lunch time and went down and found her.
Both happy young people up until their deaths:(

the brother of the girl did remark to my husband ( his best friend) that it was selfish of his sister and he had a really tough time coming to terms with it so I can understand the comments made by J Barton.

Neil3030

osnola ivax wrote: »

If it wasnt depression, then what was it? Can a man just flip in one moment and kill himself. Is that possible?

Im seriously asking this question.

This list is by no means exhaustive but off the top of my head:

Psychosis, i.e., hallucinations, hearing voices, etc., this has certainly prompted suicide.

Substance abuse disorders - addiction to alcohol, cocaine, hallucinogenics, mixes there of.

Gambling addiction, or serious losses due to gambling.

There are also other types of personality disorders (borderline personality disorder, for example) where suicide also features significantly.

However the problem is that a lot of the time these conditions will also present with symptoms of depression, so knowing what "causes" the suicide in such cases is difficult.

I would also imagine that it is quite possible that an otherwise healthy individual could suddenly be driven to suicide when exposed to huge stress or grief. Though the fact that they would take their life says something about their coping strategies and may indicate a deeper problem that went untreated.

Now, before some clown comes on here and accuses me of suggesting Speed had any of the above, I am not. I am simply responding to what I assumed to be a legitimate request for information.

osnola ibax

Neil3030 wrote: »

This list is by no means exhaustive but off the top of my head:

Psychosis, i.e., hallucinations, hearing voices, etc., this has certainly prompted suicide.

Substance abuse disorders - addiction to alcohol, cocaine, hallucinogenics, mixes there of.

Gambling addiction, or serious losses due to gambling.

There are also other types of personality disorders (borderline personality disorder, for example) where suicide also features significantly.

However the problem is that a lot of the time these conditions will also present with symptoms of depression, so knowing what "causes" the suicide in such cases is difficult.

I would also imagine that it is quite possible that an otherwise healthy individual could suddenly be driven to suicide when exposed to huge stress or grief. Though the fact that they would take their life says something about their coping strategies and may indicate a deeper problem that went untreated.

Now, before some clown comes on here and accuses me of suggesting Speed had any of the above, I am not. I am simply responding to what I assumed to be a legitimate request for information.

It was a legitimate question. There must be someone who knows what was going on, most likely his wife or someone close or was it a complete shock to them aswell.

Surely something like psychosis, he would not have ignored and sought help. Maybe the type of man he was and the profession to which he belonged curtailed his asking for help if it was depression.

Im sorry if Im overstepping the mark here but I cant get my head around this one at all. I loved Gary Speed as a player, I always wished he'd sign for Liverpool, and he was so consistently good. I feel so sorry for his friends and family and the impact it has had on everyone who loves the game is now evident for all to see.

Anyone who watches the premiership has grown up with him. I would just like to understand why, and I guess Im probe to depression aswell as a lot of people and im going through a very traumatic time and need to watch myself. This has really got me thinking.

adox

I really don't see what the big Issue is of opening up the discussion of Speeds death to discussing mental health issues.

Of course we don't know if Speed was depressed but really it can't be denied there is a huge connection between suicide and depression so that validates any discussion on depression leading from this mans suicide, no matter what reason he took his own life.

Also suggesting that the charities are exploiting his death is an extremely odd and cold way to look at things.

I get the point totally that we all may be jumping to conclusions that his suicide as caused by depression where there really is no evidence one way or the other, but either way the natural progression, if the subject of suicide is too be discussed in broader terms is to discuss depression.

Joe10000

I have to say that I also think suicide is a selfish act because ultimately it is the ppl left behind that are left to suffer.

I also understand that ppl who commit suicide see no other way out at that moment in their lives but it is a very permanent solution to a very often temporary problem.

SarahBM

Since this is a tread about Gary Speed, can I just say it was very heartening to see other football clubs holding minutes applause/silence for a great football man. The Leeds fans at the city ground were amazing. Just shows how much he was loved and respected by all fans, not just Leeds. I really am finding so hard to believe a man like Speed wouldn't seek help.

osnola ibax

Would it be fair to say that those who do commit suicide are no longer rational human beings and therefore the question of it being selfish or otherwise goes out the window.

osnola ivax

osnola ivax wrote: »

Would it be fair to say that those who do commit suicide are no longer rational human beings and therefore the question of it being selfish or otherwise goes out the window.

When it comes to serious cases of deep depression, this is likely.

To say it's a selfish act shows an ignorance and not a proper understanding of the illness.

Mezcita

Am pleased that this thread seems to have gone full circle despite occasionally looking like it it was careering off the rails.

Whether or not Speed's death related to depression, only time will tell. At the very least reading other people's brutally frank disclosures about their own depression should only be applauded on here. Particularly amongst lads, it's just not something which is really talked about. So by at least talking about depression it does increase awareness amongst people. His reasons for taking his own life in no way detract from what he meant to fans of virtually every club out there. He was solid and a was a total pro.

As a Leeds fan the midfield of Speed, Batty, McAllister and Strachan was something else when we won the league (many many many years ago). The fact that so many other fans also saw him as a hero is great to see.

RIP Speedo. You were a legend when I was 14 and you're still a legend today.

KittyeeTrix

rarnes1 wrote: »

When it comes to serious cases of deep depression, this is likely.

To say it's a selfish act shows an ignorance and not a proper understanding of the illness.

I think the poster above you has the right point.......

In my view it could be viewed as a selfish act as it is devastating to those left behind but of course the person who commits suicide is not thinking right in the first place anyway and so can hardly be accused of being selfish..... It's a paradox if you will.....

I can ony speak for myself and my own views and I really don't appreciate being called ignorant or being told I've no understanding of the illness.

I cannot count on 2 hands the amount of young people I know who have commited suicide. My own mum following 21 years raised in an industrial school-Magdalene Convent has battled depression for over 40 years. I've spent more summers in the ICU and Psych Ward with her than I think you could possibly imagine...:(


I'm fcukin sick and tired of posting a view here on whatever forum of Boards and having someone who disagrees or thinks they know better throw out the ignorant card!!!!"!!:mad:

By all means, have your view but please do not dismiss mine in such a terrible, disrespectful way:(

Sorry for the rant but this topic has hit a nerve with me

Neil3030

flahavaj wrote: »

Again the fact that depression is being discussed more openly is a good thing, not a bad thing. Even if it arises from an incident that isn't depression based, making mental health issues less of a taboo can only be a good thing, full stop.

Talking about these thing is far from "disappointing." I hope the debate continues about depression even if it emerges Speed wasn't at all depressed. Its the one tiny crumb of positivity that could possibly com from his horrible horrible situation.

Logged in specifically to thank this.

I don't know why people have such a problem with the assumption that Speed was depressed. Statistically, it's a damn safe one.

fluffyorganic1

fluffyorganic1 wrote: »

I think the poster above you has the right point.......

In my view it could be viewed as a selfish act as it is devastating to those left behind but of course the person who commits suicide is not thinking right in the first place anyway and so can hardly be accused of being selfish..... It's a paradox if you will.....

I can ony speak for myself and my own views and I really don't appreciate being called ignorant or being told I've no understanding of the illness.

I cannot count on 2 hands the amount of young people I know who have commited suicide. My own mum following 21 years raised in an industrial school-Magdalene Convent has battled depression for over 40 years. I've spent more summers in the ICU and Psych Ward with her than I think you could possibly imagine...:(


I'm fcukin sick and tired of posting a view here on whatever forum of Boards and having someone who disagrees or thinks they know better throw out the ignorant card!!!!"!!:mad:

By all means, have your view but please do not dismiss mine in such a terrible, disrespectful way:(

Sorry for the rant but this topic has hit a nerve with me

Apologies if my post offended you in any way, it wasn't meant like that at all. My wording could possibly have been better.

My point is that branding someone selfish when they reach a point when suicide is the only option is insensitive for a better word, particularly for an outsider looking in and who knows little or nothing about the circumstances.

From what I've been told when you reach that point, everything else seems irrelevant and rational thoughts disappear.

KittyeeTrix

rarnes1 wrote: »

Apologies if my post offended you in any way, it wasn't meant like that at all. My wording could possibly have been better.

My point is that branding someone selfish when they reach a point when suicide is the only option is insensitive for a better word, particularly for an outsider looking in and who knows little or nothing about the circumstances.

From what I've been told when you reach that point, everything else seems irrelevant and rational thoughts disappear.

I know you didn't mean any offence and I too would like to apologise for losing the head with you:o SORRY!!

I think we are all very much thinking from the same point of view and the word "selfish" when used in conjunction with suicide victims has all sorts of bad connotations tied to it..

I think you are correct when you say that a suicidal person loses rational thinking. I can only imagine that that is the case and the last thing they want to do is to cause more suffering or to be "selfish" (for want of a better word)........

That_Guy

Newcastle have announced that they are to have a singer to lead St James' Park in a rendition of Welsh hymn Bread of Heaven on Saturday. Cards will spell out number 11 in the East Stand. He's also set to be on the front of our match program with a four page tribute inside.

Nice gesture.

event

along with anything the fans did last night and will do saturday, leeds have announced their plans:

On Saturday, both teams will be wearing black arm bands with Leeds players and management wearing armbands embossed with “Speed 11″.

A minute’s applause will also be held ahead of the game after which respective managers Simon Grayson and Millwall manager Kenny Jackett will lay wreaths at both ends of the stadium.

“Prior to kick-off, a montage remembering Gary will be shown on the big screen, featuring some of his finest moments in a Leeds United shirt and showing some of the many tributes that have been paid since Sunday. Fans will again be paying tribute with a special banner in memory of Gary, with the words ‘Go on Gary Speed, get one yourself son’ with reference to the famous commentary that accompanied his goal against Sheffield United at Elland Road in April 1990.

“Fans are also encouraged to continue paying their respects at the Billy Bremner Statue where the floral and shirt tributes continue to grow. It is hoped that many of the shirts will be kept and displayed in the club museum in the future. All flags will continue to fly at half-mast.”

jakdublin

Dublin Leeds United Members Club is opening a book of condolence after being inundated with messages of support from Leeds United fans based in Ireland and on its Facebook page following the death of Leeds Legend Gary Speed.

Noel Rice Chairman “Dublin Leeds United Members Club would like to pay their respects to Gary’s family and friends. To let them know they are in our thoughts”.

David Meier Secretary said “Gary was a great professional; he was inspirational as a player and manager. We are deeply saddened by his lost”.

On Monday we sent 11 White Roses and 11 Yellow Roses wrapped in a Dublin Leeds United scarf that was placed at the Billy Bremner Statue at Elland Road a small gesture for a great player but a greater man. We are all shocked at the loss of Gary. Rest In Peace

As tributes have poured in for the former Leeds, Everton, Newcastle, Bolton and Sheffield United midfielder, all fans will be able to go to the The North Star Hotel, Amiens street, (across from Connolly Train Station) on Monday Night 5th December from 7.30pm to leave their tributes.

barone

not sure of why this song but it seems kelly jones recorded this as a tribute to gary..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TxW1aXMs48

Dolph Starbeam

^

STEREOPHONICS FRONTMAN KELLY Jones has recorded a musical tribute to Gary Speed.
The Wales manager was found dead by his wife on Sunday morning, shocking the football world.
Ahead of a weekend of planned tributes for the national team manager, the Welsh band have released a version of Andy Williams’ I Can’t Take My Eyes Off You.
The video will feature as part of a tribute to Speed on Welsh TV tonight. The song has special resonance with football fans there as it was used in a promo for the 1994 World Cup qualifier in which Wales came so close – and was adopted as an anthem by those on the terraces.
[URL="denied:denied:denied:bbc%20http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/15995644.stm"]Jones said:[/URL] “I was with my two daughters at the Millennium Stadium after the Wales v England international [in March].
“We were waiting at the lift and Gary ended his phone conversation and shook my hand. We had a chat about the game and shared the lift to the ground floor. He was a very nice man. Good-looking fella.
“I was consumed the whole day when I heard the news. I couldn’t get my head around it. Then the BBC approached me to record the song. It’s a 10-minute job but I hope it’s fitting for the tribute on the show.”
Tributes

Tomorrow, Speed’s former midfield team-mates at Leeds United – Gary McAllister, David Batty and Gordon Strachan – will lay wreathes at Elland Road before a minute’s applause.
Newcastle United – with whom Speed played for six seasons – have said they will produce a special match programme with a picture of Speed on the cover.
Prior to kick-off at St James’ Park, a singer will lead the 52,000-strong crowd in a rendition of the famous Welsh hymn, Bread of Heaven.

http://thescore.thejournal.ie/cant-take-my-eyes-off-you-stereophonics-record-gary-speed-tribute-294462-Dec2011/

That_Guy

Tomorrow's match program cover.

That_Guy

Few North East journalists on Twitter have been told the following:

#NUFC have postponed their tribute to Gary Speed tomorrow at the request of his widow Louise, who wants to be present when it takes place...

@Lee_Ryder @MilesStarForth tweeted the same thing.

www.nufc.co.uk

We have today received a request from Louise Speed to postpone the club's planned tribute to her husband Gary, in order that she can join us at the stadium when our tribute takes place.

Louise has been very touched by the plans and expressed a desire to be present.

As Louise will be at Elland Road tomorrow on her request we have rescheduled our tribute and it will now take place at our next home game, against Swansea on December 17.

A minute's applause for Gary will still take place before kick-off.

Powerful scenes at the Millennium stadium today. Shane Williams with it being his last game for Wales in particular was very emotional given all that has happened the last week.

SarahBM

Elland Road was just unbelievable yesterday. so moving, the tributes were amazing. Simon Grayson and Kenny Jacket each put a wreath behind both goals, and very emotional McAllister, Batty and Strachan laid one between the dug outs. the montage on the big screen was beautiful, had almost everyone in tears. but best of all, we won, and won for Gary Speed.

RIP Speedo

acquiescefc

As a lifelong Wednesday supporter,we've always taken the mickey out of Blades managers/players etc but gotta say i cant get over how irrelevant any of that is now and feel really sorry for ppl around him as most Owls do.

Really hope some real explanation comes out one day just to ratify what made a 'nice guy with everything to live for' resort to something like this.

sad

MD1990

The coroner at the inquest into the death of Wales manager Gary Speed has said he cannot be satisfied he intended to kill himself.
Speed's widow, Louise, said his job had put strain on their marriage and told how they had a row the night before he was found dead.
She later found his body hanging in the garage at their home near Chester.
The coroner said "the evidence does not sufficiently determine whether this was intentional or accidental".
Louise Speed said she had gone for a drive after they had words when they returned from a dinner party, but she could not get back into the house.
Four days earlier Speed sent his wife a text talking "in terms of taking his life", but she said he had dismissed it because of their children.
She said the text referred to their "ups and downs" but also mentioned "how important the boys were" and about "moving forward".
Mrs Speed said he did not leave a note. Det Insp Peter Lawless said his computer and phone were checked for a note, and none was found.
His friend, the former England captain Alan Shearer, who was with him the day before he was found dead, said he had become aware there were issues between the couple.
Shearer, whose family went on holiday with the Speeds, said he told him such issues were normal in a long-standing relationship.
Continue reading the main story

It just didn't and still doesn't make sense to me”

Alan Shearer Friend and former England captain
Shearer last saw him at lunchtime on the Saturday before he died, when Speed appeared on the BBC's Football Focus programme.
He said Speed - who played for a number of Premier League clubs, including Leeds, Newcastle, Everton, and Bolton - seemed fine and was laughing and joking.
He got the call with the news of his death the next day. "It just didn't and still doesn't make sense to me," said Shearer's statement.
He also said his friend did not seem worried about anything and told him he would call him the following Monday. He also said he seemed to be enjoying the Wales manager's job.
'No greater honour' The hearing was told by the Welsh national team's GP, Dr Mark Ridgewell, that Speed had showed no signs of stress and depression.
Gary Speed and Alan Shearer playing for Newcastle United in the Champions League in 2002
Dr Bob Muggleton, the medical officer at Sheffield United - the club Speed managed before taking on the Wales job - told the inquest in Warrington that he had worked with him until 2010 and no mental health issues were raised during that time.
The inquest was told about a dinner party hosted by a friend of Speed the night before he died, when he was in good spirits.
Speed had been pushed in the pool with his clothes on, along with other men, and he had tried to push everyone else in the spirit of good fun.
He had also been talking of booking a Christmas holiday to Dubai.
Robert Bateman, the taxi driver who took the Speeds home, said everything had seemed normal and they were "as normal as they always are".
The inquest was told Speed had alcohol in his blood, just over the UK drink-drive limit of 80mg.
In a statement, Speed's mother Carol said her son had said that there was "no greater honour than to manage his country in the game he loved".
Gary Speed on a training session with Wales
She described him as a "half-empty person" and "certainly no optimist". The phone call from her daughter-in-law was the "worst moment of my life".
Mrs Speed arrived at the inquest in Warrington shortly before it began with a number of family and friends.
The League Managers' Association is expected to release a statement on her behalf after the hearing.
Memorial match After news emerged of his death, tributes were paid to Speed from around the UK and the sporting world.
Football matches around the country held minute's silences and applause, while fans of his former clubs, including Leeds United, Everton and Newcastle United, left scarves, shirts, photos and flags in Speed's memory.
Tributes were also left at the Millennium Stadium, Cardiff City Stadium and Wrexham's Racecourse Ground.
Leeds United fans left tributes to Gary Speed at Elland Road
The Football Association of Wales announced a memorial international friendly game against Costa Rica in Cardiff, which will be held on 29 February.
He had earned the first of his 85 Welsh caps as a 20-year-old in a friendly against the Central American country in 1990.
The former Premier League star, who had two sons, went on to become Wales' most capped outfield player, captaining his country 44 times and scoring seven goals.
Before becoming Wales boss in December 2010, he enjoyed a distinguished career managing Sheffield United and playing for a variety of top clubs.
Earlier this month Speed's friend and former Wales teammate Chris Coleman was unveiled as the new Wales manager.