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Racism - Mod Note on 1st Post - Read before posting.

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  • #1952
    ShamoBuc
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 34,950 CMod ✭✭✭✭ShamoBuc


    flahavaj wrote: »
    Clearly.:pac:

    Good example:rolleyes:


  • #1953
    niallo27
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,137 ✭✭✭✭niallo27


    cambo2008 wrote: »
    It's the context that will decide it.
    Plenty of words have other meanings.
    Eg:I call you a knacker for picking your nose and eating it :) quite harmless.
    I call a traveller a knacker,not so harmless.

    It will be impossible surely to prove what context he did mean it in though, That's where the doubt lies.


  • #1954
    flahavaj
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,235 ✭✭✭✭flahavaj


    niallo27 wrote: »
    It will be impossible surely to prove what context he did mean it in though, That's where the doubt lies.

    This is kinda what it boils down to.

    The counter argument though is that by using any derivative of the word black in a heated exchange with a black man (with whom he has been having a running battle all game) he is on dodgy enough ground.


  • #1955
    Leiva
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Leiva


    Has it not been proven that there is a massive difference between the words "Negro" & "Negrito"


    Or do some users just use the former to suit their biased posts ?


  • #1956
    ShamoBuc
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 34,950 CMod ✭✭✭✭ShamoBuc


    mixednuts wrote: »
    Has it not been proven that there is a massive difference between the words "Negro" & "Negrito"


    Or do some users just use the former to suit their biased posts ?

    Some users are using alot less than that to form posts in this thread.
    The vast majority of posts in here are of the biased form.


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  • #1957
    flahavaj
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,235 ✭✭✭✭flahavaj


    mixednuts wrote: »
    Has it not been proven that there is a massive difference between the words "Negro" & "Negrito"


    Or do some users just use the former to suit their biased posts ?

    Who are you referring to?

    Even if they are different, one is a derivative of the other. If you weren't aware of Uruguayan vernacular you would be offended. One who is aware of Uruguayan vernacular, but uses it outside Uruguay might also reasonably be expected to realise this.


  • #1958
    niallo27
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,137 ✭✭✭✭niallo27


    flahavaj wrote: »
    Who are you referring to?

    Even if they are different, one is a derivative of the other. If you weren't aware of Uruguayan vernacular you would be offended. One who is aware of Uruguayan vernacular, but uses it outside Uruguay might also reasonably be expected to realise this.

    I don't think many people here, if you ask them right now after everything that has happened would argue that evra has the right to be offended.


  • #1959
    flahavaj
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,235 ✭✭✭✭flahavaj


    niallo27 wrote: »
    I don't think many people here, if you ask them right now after everything that has happened would argue that evra has the right to be offended.

    I know. Thankfully people have long since shut the f*ck up on that front.

    What about the subsequent point I made?


  • #1960
    Leiva
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Leiva


    flahavaj wrote: »
    Who are you referring to?

    Even if they are different, one is a derivative of the other. If you weren't aware of Uruguayan vernacular you would be offended. One who is aware of Uruguayan vernacular, but uses it outside Uruguay might also reasonably be expected to realise this.

    Yep it is a derivative of Negro but there is a massive difference between both words if used in the context of the Evra incident .

    If Suarez said Negro it's not up for debate , but he said "Negrito" so it becomes a matter of opinion which would be madness for the FA to persue with a racist charge .

    I totally understand that a player was offended but if the word Negrito was the word used then it should be a matter that's resolved with an apology ...I do see you suggested that.

    But for the sake of this thread I think its only proper that the word Negrito is used as it surely is confirmed by now that's the name claimed was used .


  • #1961
    niallo27
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,137 ✭✭✭✭niallo27


    flahavaj wrote: »
    I know. Thankfully people have long since shut the f*ck up on that front.

    What about the subsequent point I made?

    Well it's more south amercian saying so I believe as Hernandez has also used so maybe Suarez might have taught it was quiet a common term, maybe Suarez heard one of evras teammates use the term during the game. The FA are in a horrible position here.


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  • #1962
    Will I Amnt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,222 ✭✭✭✭Will I Amnt


    mixednuts wrote: »
    Has it not been proven that there is a massive difference between the words "Negro" & "Negrito"


    Or do some users just use the former to suit their biased posts ?
    You could just as easily reverse that.
    We don't know what word was said.
    Even if Suarez says himself he said Negrito you're just taking his word on it.


  • #1963
    Will I Amnt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,222 ✭✭✭✭Will I Amnt


    mixednuts wrote: »
    But for the sake of this thread I think its only proper that the word Negrito is used as it surely is confirmed by now that's the name claimed was used .
    it's not confirmed by anyone and it's apparently the word that Suarez says he used which would be convenient for him.

    You can't just dismiss everything else on that basis.


  • #1964
    Leiva
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Leiva


    cambo2008 wrote: »
    You could just as easily reverse that.
    We don't know what word was said.
    Even if Suarez says himself he said Negrito you're just taking his word on it.

    This forum can go round & round in circles if we just keep discussing hear-say and guess work , so the best approach is to stick with what's known or leaked from the clubs even if it's yet to be justified .

    Other wise it's going be ..
    "Oh no you didn't , Oh yes you did " crap .


  • #1965
    niallo27
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,137 ✭✭✭✭niallo27


    The only thing we know for sure is that we all know **** all.


  • #1966
    Leiva
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Leiva


    cambo2008 wrote: »
    it's not confirmed by anyone and it's apparently the word that Suarez says he used which would be convenient for him.

    You can't just dismiss everything else on that basis.

    I'm not I'm just discussing the two facts (known)at hand ;

    #1 Evras press conference in which he said he was called a "N" word <10times

    #2 Suarez claims he said Negrito .

    Now where was "Negro" said in the two known arguments ?... so why use it in a post for either side ?


  • #1967
    flahavaj
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,235 ✭✭✭✭flahavaj


    niallo27 wrote: »
    Well it's more south amercian saying so I believe as Hernandez has also used so maybe Suarez might have taught it was quiet a common term, maybe Suarez heard one of evras teammates use the term during the game. The FA are in a horrible position here.

    There is also the point that it is supposed to have been said more than once. Maybe at some point the penny might have dropped that the word negrito, a derivative of negro was offending the black player and common sense might have taken over in his head? Whatever the use of the word where he comes from, the fact remains it is still a word based on the word "black," and saying suck a thing to a black man in an argument is surely unwise at best?

    He is also a long enough time living outside Uruguay to have learned some of the scoial norms of western society and would have had many black teammates over the years.


  • #1968
    flahavaj
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,235 ✭✭✭✭flahavaj


    mixednuts wrote: »
    I'm not I'm just discussing the two facts (known)at hand ;

    #1 Evras press conference in which he said he was called a "N" word <10times

    #2 Suarez claims he said Negrito .

    Now where was "Negro" said in the two known arguments ?... so why use it in a post for either side ?

    Was there a press conference? And also I'm not even sure Evra went so far as to say it was an "n" word.


  • #1969
    Leiva
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Leiva


    flahavaj wrote: »
    Was there a press conference? And also I'm not even sure Evra went so far as to say it was an "n" word.

    press interview then :rolleyes:

    If he didn't say "n word" then he must be good a sign language,vantriliquism
    or Telepathy cause how else would interviewer have know his gripe ?


  • #1970
    niallo27
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,137 ✭✭✭✭niallo27


    flahavaj wrote: »
    There is also the point that it is supposed to have been said more than once. Maybe at some point the penny might have dropped that the word negrito, a derivative of negro was offending the black player and common sense might have taken over in his head? Whatever the use of the word where he comes from, the fact remains it is still a word based on the word "black," and saying suck a thing to a black man in an argument is surely unwise at best?

    He is also a long enough time living outside Uruguay to have learned some of the scoial norms of western society and would have had many black teammates over the years.

    We have also seen other players based in the uk use this term though, so it would appear that it would be some what socially acceptable to use it, I would love to know was evra offended by negrito or was he offended because he though he heard Negro/NI**ger


  • #1971
    ShamoBuc
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 34,950 CMod ✭✭✭✭ShamoBuc


    flahavaj wrote: »
    the fact remains it is still a word based on the word "black," and saying suck a thing to a black man in an argument is surely unwise at best?
    .

    So now he's after telling him to suck a black thing?:confused:


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  • #1972
    Will I Amnt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,222 ✭✭✭✭Will I Amnt


    mixednuts wrote: »
    :
    If he didn't say "n word" then he must be good a sign language,vantriliquism
    or Telepathy cause how else would interviewer have know his gripe ?
    I think he said "you can see him say a certain word to me at least 10 times"
    No mention of n words or anything like that.


  • #1973
    flahavaj
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,235 ✭✭✭✭flahavaj


    mixednuts wrote: »
    press interview then :rolleyes:

    If he didn't say "n word" then he must be good a sign language,vantriliquism
    or Telepathy cause how else would interviewer have know his gripe ?

    AFAIR the tweets about what he said to French TV only referred to "a certain word." Nothing to do with telepathy or anything else so silly.


  • #1974
    Leiva
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Leiva


    cambo2008 wrote: »
    I think he said "you can see him say a certain word to me at least 10 times"
    No mention of n words or anything like that.

    Ok but I'm not gonna get held up on semantics .

    It's seems to be boiling down to if the word said was Negro or Negrito.

    If it's all the FA have and it's purely down to Evras word against Suarez with no other witnesses then it would be madness to proceed with a racism charge.

    But Im starting to believe that there might be more evidence involved that's not out in the public cause I can't see the FA taking it this far otherwise .


  • #1975
    flahavaj
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,235 ✭✭✭✭flahavaj


    niallo27 wrote: »
    We have also seen other players based in the uk use this term though, so it would appear that it would be some what socially acceptable to use it, I would love to know was evra offended by negrito or was he offended because he though he heard Negro/NI**ger

    Did any of those players repedtedly direct the term towards a black player in the context of a 90 minute running battle between two player playing for hated rival clubs?


  • #1976
    niallo27
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,137 ✭✭✭✭niallo27


    cambo2008 wrote: »
    I think he said "you can see him say a certain word to me at least 10 times"
    No mention of n words or anything like that.

    In a post-match interview, Evra told the French TV station Canal Plus: ‘I was very upset. In 2011 you can’t say things like this. He knows what he said, the ref knows it, it will come out. I won’t repeat what he said, but it was a racist word, and he said it more than ten times. He tried to wind me up. I won’t make a huge deal out of it, but it’s very upsetting and disappointing.’


    He just said it was racist, I don't know why he said he wouldn't make a huge deal of it, you don't go on tv straight afterwards if you don't want to make a huge deal of it.


  • #1977
    flahavaj
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,235 ✭✭✭✭flahavaj


    ShamoBuc wrote: »
    So now he's after telling him to suck a black thing?:confused:

    Such. :pac:


  • #1978
    flahavaj
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,235 ✭✭✭✭flahavaj


    mixednuts wrote: »
    Ok but I'm not gonna get held up on semantics .

    It's seems to be boiling down to if the word said was Negro or Negrito.

    If it's all the FA have and it's purely down to Evras word against Suarez with no other witnesses then it would be madness to proceed with a racism charge.

    But Im starting to believe that there might be more evidence involved that's not out in the public cause I can't see the FA taking it this far otherwise .

    No its not just as simple as whether he said negro or negrito. He might have said "negrito" but knew full well Era would take it as a racist slur. Or he could have just said it in innocence.

    Either way it is certainly far from as black and white (excuse the pun) or simple as you paint it here.


  • #1979
    ShamoBuc
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 34,950 CMod ✭✭✭✭ShamoBuc


    flahavaj wrote: »
    Such. :pac:

    That's better, I thought it was another of those cogent argument thingies;)


  • #1980
    niallo27
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,137 ✭✭✭✭niallo27


    flahavaj wrote: »
    Did any of those players repedtedly direct the term towards a black player in the context of a 90 minute running battle between two player playing for hated rival clubs?

    No they did not, I was just saying maybe it's a common enough term outside of south America, when Hernandez and pacheo used it was it white or black players they were referring to.


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  • #1981
    Leiva
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Leiva


    flahavaj wrote: »

    Either way it is certainly far from as black and white (excuse the pun) or simple as you paint it here.

    But it has to be !

    Otherwise the FA run the risk of labeling a player a racist over a misunderstanding if they are only going on one players word against another .

    If there is more evidence then it's not a matter of opinion .


This discussion has been closed.
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