Racism - Mod Note on 1st Post - Read before posting.

MIN2511 · 18-11-2011 02:34AM

DB10 wrote: »

It's still quite startling Liverpool havent brought through any black players from their academy.

Maybe they should concentrate on that and forget appealing the fine/ban on Suarez. It's multicultural there these days they should have at least a few lads coming through imo.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/15780917.stm
"MK Dons teenager Seyi Ojo has joined Premier League side Liverpool for an undisclosed fee and will go straight into their academy.

The 14-year-old striker has won two England Under-16 caps.

"This is the opportunity of a lifetime for Seyi which has proved far too difficult to turn down," Dons chairman Pete Winkelman told the club website.

"There has been a lot of interest and speculation regarding Seyi which he has coped with admirably."

He added: "We are extremely proud to have Seyi in our record books as our first schoolboy to receive an international cap.

"Everyone at the club would like to wish Seyi the best of luck in his future and we all look forward to the day he runs out at Anfield."

Ojo, who has been with the Dons' academy since 2007, played for the club's under-18s aged 13, was a regular in the under-16s and has trained with the senior squad.

It was reported in October that Chelsea were ready to spend £1.5m to take the youngster to Stamford Bridge."

hideous ape · 18-11-2011 03:09AM

WARNING - THIS POST MAY CONTAIN SOMETHING UNITED FANS ON THIS THREAD WISHED DIDN'T EXIST.

I'll just leave this here for the United fans on this thread giving it gusto towards Suarez for possibly using the Spanish worlds accepted word "negrito":

Chicharito Hernández, destaca el gol anotado ayer por otro joven como Omar Esparza, en la victoria ante Tigres: " Me gustó mucho el gol del Negrito (Omar Esparza)...

I'm sorry, you'll have to repeat that in English Chickatee cause your not in Mexico now son:

Chicharito Hernandez yesterday highlights the goal scored by another young man as Omar Esparza, in a win over Tigers: "I liked the goal of the Negrito (Omar Esparza)...

http://www.chivascampeon.com/noticia/2009/

Any United fans care to respond to this with the same outrage as you have so far demonstrated towards Suarez?

K-9 · 18-11-2011 03:22AM

hideous ape wrote: »

WARNING - THIS POST MAY CONTAIN SOMETHING UNITED FANS ON THIS THREAD WISHED DIDN'T EXIST.

I'll just leave this here for the United fans on this thread giving it gusto towards Suarez for possibly using the Spanish worlds accepted word "negrito":

Chicharito Hernández, destaca el gol anotado ayer por otro joven como Omar Esparza, en la victoria ante Tigres: " Me gustó mucho el gol del Negrito (Omar Esparza)...

I'm sorry, you'll have to repeat that in English Chickatee cause your not in Mexico now son:

Chicharito Hernandez yesterday highlights the goal scored by another young man as Omar Esparza, in a win over Tigers: "I liked the goal of the Negrito (Omar Esparza)...

http://www.chivascampeon.com/noticia/2009/

Any United fans care to respond to this with the same outrage as you have so far demonstrated towards Suarez?

Thread just got very interesting.

How could Chicarito say such a thing?

Blatter · 18-11-2011 03:23AM

hideous ape wrote: »

WARNING - THIS POST MAY CONTAIN SOMETHING UNITED FANS ON THIS THREAD WISHED DIDN'T EXIST.

I'll just leave this here for the United fans on this thread giving it gusto towards Suarez for possibly using the Spanish worlds accepted word "negrito":

Chicharito Hernández, destaca el gol anotado ayer por otro joven como Omar Esparza, en la victoria ante Tigres: " Me gustó mucho el gol del Negrito (Omar Esparza)...

I'm sorry, you'll have to repeat that in English Chickatee cause your not in Mexico now son:

Chicharito Hernandez yesterday highlights the goal scored by another young man as Omar Esparza, in a win over Tigers: "I liked the goal of the Negrito (Omar Esparza)...

http://www.chivascampeon.com/noticia/2009/

Any United fans care to respond to this with the same outrage as you have so far demonstrated towards Suarez?

The context is quite clear in that case. And I haven't seen a United fan claim the word negrito can't be used in a friendly context. It can also be used as an offensive term.

There are massive question marks over the context in the Suarez/Evra case.

SoulTrader · 18-11-2011 03:36AM

hideous ape wrote: »

WARNING - THIS POST MAY CONTAIN SOMETHING UNITED FANS ON THIS THREAD WISHED DIDN'T EXIST.

I'll just leave this here for the United fans on this thread giving it gusto towards Suarez for possibly using the Spanish worlds accepted word "negrito":

Chicharito Hernández, destaca el gol anotado ayer por otro joven como Omar Esparza, en la victoria ante Tigres: " Me gustó mucho el gol del Negrito (Omar Esparza)...

I'm sorry, you'll have to repeat that in English Chickatee cause your not in Mexico now son:

Chicharito Hernandez yesterday highlights the goal scored by another young man as Omar Esparza, in a win over Tigers: "I liked the goal of the Negrito (Omar Esparza)...

http://www.chivascampeon.com/noticia/2009/

Any United fans care to respond to this with the same outrage as you have so far demonstrated towards Suarez?

Well this is the first time I have posted on this thread, but it seems pretty clear to me that Hernandez's comments are very much in line with what many Liverpool fans on here have been saying about "Negrito" being an endearing term.

The thing is, Hernandez's team mate scored, and he was congratulating him, in an endearing, friendly context.

Does any Liverpool fan really think that Suarez was being friendly to Evra? When he patted him on the head in a patronising manner, was that an attempt at being friendly, or an attempt to get a reaction out of Evra? Judging by those actions, I think it's safe to assume that the context in which Suarez allegedly used the word "Negrito" was far removed from the context in which Hernandez used it.

curry-muff · 18-11-2011 03:49AM

hideous ape wrote: »

WARNING - THIS POST MAY CONTAIN SOMETHING UNITED FANS ON THIS THREAD WISHED DIDN'T EXIST.

I'll just leave this here for the United fans on this thread giving it gusto towards Suarez for possibly using the Spanish worlds accepted word "negrito":

Chicharito Hernández, destaca el gol anotado ayer por otro joven como Omar Esparza, en la victoria ante Tigres: " Me gustó mucho el gol del Negrito (Omar Esparza)...

I'm sorry, you'll have to repeat that in English Chickatee cause your not in Mexico now son:

Chicharito Hernandez yesterday highlights the goal scored by another young man as Omar Esparza, in a win over Tigers: "I liked the goal of the Negrito (Omar Esparza)...

http://www.chivascampeon.com/noticia/2009/

Any United fans care to respond to this with the same outrage as you have so far demonstrated towards Suarez?

That's ridiculous, you're completely missing the point of what the last 30/40 pages have been about, that was used in a friendly context, in Spanish, to another Spanish speaker. Not one of us has denied that it can be used in a friendly context, but it obviously wasn't too friendly in the Evra altercation.

Go bottle that false pride in your post for now :rolleyes:

J. Marston · 18-11-2011 04:25AM

Liverpool fans spend pages upon pages saying that ''negrito'' can be used in a friendly, endearing manner, no United fans deny this (to my knowledge anyway), Chicharito uses the term ''negrito'' in a friendly, endearing manner, A couple of eager 'Pool fans, all of a sudden: ''Well, well, well, explain that?''

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFcqGGMPc3k

hideous ape · 18-11-2011 04:30AM

curry-muff wrote: »

That's ridiculous, you're completely missing the point of what the last 30/40 pages have been about, that was used in a friendly context, in Spanish, to another Spanish speaker. Not one of us has denied that it can be used in a friendly context, but it obviously wasn't too friendly in the Evra altercation.

Go bottle that false pride in your post for now :rolleyes:

I'm not missing any point in fact I'm shining a blinding fcking light on the point but you don't want to look! If any case hangs on what somebodies brain meant using words that can be interpreted so differently and in so many ways then no judge would proceed with any trial. A legal offence involves two parts:

1) the offence
2) the intent

If I accidently run over your cat, well that rules out intent therefore no case to answer. As far as I or anyone on this thread to date knows even Suarez's offence is on shaky linguistic ground, never mind the intent! No court in the world would proceed with a case as shaky as this, which is why some people think it'll be thrown out or else a dodgy whitewash. If Suarez called Evra a racist name, and believe me the Spanish world has plenty of racist words but "el negrito" is not really one of them. As a racist insult it really makes no sense, its like you calling a traveller, a traveller repeatedly as an insult when their are other more "correct" racial insults that 100% of Irish people would use. If Suarez had said any of his languages typical words then fine hit him with the ban hammer BUT if Suarez used "el negrito" in a genuine sentence just like Chickatee then it is so open to interpretation that it would be utter negligence to proceed with a charge.

DOC09UNAM · 18-11-2011 04:35AM

hideous ape wrote: »

curry-muff wrote: »

That's ridiculous, you're completely missing the point of what the last 30/40 pages have been about, that was used in a friendly context, in Spanish, to another Spanish speaker. Not one of us has denied that it can be used in a friendly context, but it obviously wasn't too friendly in the Evra altercation.

Go bottle that false pride in your post for now :rolleyes:

I'm not missing any point in fact I'm shining a blinding fcking light on the point but you don't want to look! If any case hangs on what somebodies brain meant using words that can be interpreted so differently and in so many ways then no judge would proceed with any trial. A legal offence involves two parts:

1) the offence
2) the intent

If I accidently run over your cat, well that rules out intent therefore no case to answer. As far as I or anyone on this thread to date knows even Suarez's offence is on shaky linguistic ground, never mind the intent! No court in the world would proceed with a case as shaky as this, which is why some people think it'll be thrown out or else a dodgy whitewash. If Suarez called Evra a racist name, and believe me the Spanish world has plenty of racist words but "el negrito" is not really one of them. As a racist insult it really makes no sense, its like you calling a traveller, a traveller repeatedly as an insult when their are other more "correct" racial insults that 100% of Irish people would use. If Suarez had said any of his languages typical words then fine hit him with the ban hammer BUT if Suarez used "el negrito" in a genuine sentence just like Chickatee then it is so open to interpretation that it would be utter negligence to proceed with a charge.

The immaturity of calling him chickatee undermines any point you were trying to make.

But seeing as how your point is bs anyway, carry on.

killwill · 18-11-2011 04:55AM

K-9 wrote: »

I thought the Liverpool/Kenny thing was cleared up ages ago?

How?

killwill · 18-11-2011 04:58AM

monkey9 wrote: »

He dived. Feigned injury!!

Not once did he claim racial abuse in that match!. He was booked for dissent and still said nothing.

Suarez will be cleared, i have no doubt!!

He was kicked and feigned injury!!!!
I never claimed he claimed racial abuse during the match. If he was booked for dissent and tried to claim racial abuse he could have been sent off for further dissent. At that moment in time he was right to shut his mouth.

As for the last bit Any chance of borrowing your DeLorean when you are not busy with it Doc?

hideous ape · 18-11-2011 05:00AM

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

The immaturity of calling him chickatee undermines any point you were trying to make.

But seeing as how your point is bs anyway, carry on.

My United supporting mates have called him Chickatee since the day he joined. They also refer to Giggs as Giggety amongst many other immature names given to players over the years. Its not very funny but then they do support United so I give them a break. Lighten up, immaturity will add years to your life. Maturity is for scotch or dead people and I'm drinking scotch right now so I'm not dead yet.

So there is no grounds at all for this been a complete mess of linguistic interpretation between a Frenchman and a Uruguayan depending on the thoughts the Uruguayan was having at the time and what the Frenchman thought was said? My mistake then case closed it seems.

curry-muff · 18-11-2011 05:26AM

hideous ape wrote: »

I'm not missing any point in fact I'm shining a blinding fcking light on the point but you don't want to look! If any case hangs on what somebodies brain meant using words that can be interpreted so differently and in so many ways then no judge would proceed with any trial. A legal offence involves two parts:

1) the offence
2) the intent

If I accidently run over your cat, well that rules out intent therefore no case to answer. As far as I or anyone on this thread to date knows even Suarez's offence is on shaky linguistic ground, never mind the intent! No court in the world would proceed with a case as shaky as this, which is why some people think it'll be thrown out or else a dodgy whitewash. If Suarez called Evra a racist name, and believe me the Spanish world has plenty of racist words but "el negrito" is not really one of them. As a racist insult it really makes no sense, its like you calling a traveller, a traveller repeatedly as an insult when their are other more "correct" racial insults that 100% of Irish people would use. If Suarez had said any of his languages typical words then fine hit him with the ban hammer BUT if Suarez used "el negrito" in a genuine sentence just like Chickatee then it is so open to interpretation that it would be utter negligence to proceed with a charge.

You obviously don't know any travellers, even calling them a traveller would get you a beating, the prefer to bee seen as the same as you or me.

As for the whole term of endearment crap thats being thrown around, I don't really buy into it. I call my friends stupid things like 'assface' and 'one-ball' and 'díckhead' and they would know I'm joking and using it as a 'term of endearment', but I know full well that saying it to another person would offend him, living in England for more than a few weeks ignorance is no excuse.

I don't know why I'm continuing this argument anyway your initial point was stupid, Omar Esparza isn't even black.

K-9 · 18-11-2011 06:42AM

J. Marston wrote: »

Liverpool fans spend pages upon pages saying that ''negrito'' can be used in a friendly, endearing manner, no United fans deny this (to my knowledge anyway), Chicharito uses the term ''negrito'' in a friendly, endearing manner, A couple of eager 'Pool fans, all of a sudden: ''Well, well, well, explain that?''

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFcqGGMPc3k

Pacheco said the exact same thing. It lends credence to the fact that Suarez was just calling him pal or friend in a sarcastic tone, especially seeing a United player did it. It'll cut out a lot of sanctimonious bull.

killwill wrote: »

How?

Sorry kill, answered flah already. Times and information has moved on. What Lfc said a week ago isn't that relevant anymore, a largely redundant view now.

Will I Amnt · 18-11-2011 07:51AM

K-9 wrote: »

Pacheco said the exact same thing. It lends credence to the fact that Suarez was just calling him pal or friend in a sarcastic tone, especially seeing a United player did it. It'll cut out a lot of sanctimonious bull.

You don't seem to be taking context into account which is the deciding factor in all of this if that was the word used.

killwill · 18-11-2011 08:20AM

K-9 wrote: »

Pacheco said the exact same thing. It lends credence to the fact that Suarez was just calling him pal or friend in a sarcastic tone, especially seeing a United player did it. It'll cut out a lot of sanctimonious bull.

Sorry kill, answered flah already. Times and information has moved on. What Lfc said a week ago isn't that relevant anymore, a largely redundant view now.

Did you answer Flah? I though you gave him the "Old news" line aswell, no?

Handsome Bob · 18-11-2011 08:23AM

DB10 wrote: »

It's still quite startling Liverpool havent brought through any black players from their academy.

Good man.

_blank_ · 18-11-2011 08:38AM

Omar Esparza

K-9 · 18-11-2011 08:38AM

cambo2008 wrote: »

You don't seem to be taking context into account which is the deciding factor in all of this if that was the word used.

I am. I'm just also not discounting that it still maybe acceptable as I amn't Uruguayan.

killwill wrote: »

Did you answer Flah? I though you gave him the "Old news" line aswell, no?

Yes. Yes, its 2 weeks old at this stage and they've issued a new statement.

DB10 can always be relied on in a Liverpool thread.

K-9 · 18-11-2011 08:42AM

flahavaj wrote: »

I never mentiuoned Kenny.

There are no direct quotes granted but the Guardian and the Independent both ran with the headline.

Just on this, the Guardian and Independent often run the same story, nearly word for word. I think they might share writers or stories. It's basically the 1 source.

Crazy Horse 6 · 18-11-2011 09:07AM

DB10 wrote: »

It's still quite startling Liverpool havent brought through any black players from their academy.

Maybe they should concentrate on that and forget appealing the fine/ban on Suarez. It's multicultural there these days they should have at least a few lads coming through imo.

Lol. And the award for dumbest post goes to

Leiva · 18-11-2011 09:26AM

Just like a tracker mortgage we will all know what a Negrito is at the end of all this .:)

I'm thinking it's more along the lines of little bollOx

Which in Ireland (probably Dublin more) can be used in many different forms , both bad and weirdly good .

_blank_ · 18-11-2011 09:29AM

mixednuts wrote: »

Just like a tracker mortgage we will all know what a Negritois at the end of all this .:)

I'm thinking it's more along the lines of little bollOx

Which in Ireland (probably Dublin more) can be used in many different forms , both bad and weirdly good .

It's not weird to use derogatory terms as terms of endearment at all, I often arrive to a pub and say to one of my best mates "How's it going ya aul cúnt ya", it's normal

Leiva · 18-11-2011 09:36AM

Des wrote: »

It's not weird to use derogatory terms as terms of endearment at all, I often arrive to a pub and say to one of my best mates "How's it going ya aul cúnt ya", it's normal

What's he call you back Des ... Negrito

kop77 · 18-11-2011 09:41AM

DB10 wrote: »

It's still quite startling Liverpool havent brought through any black players from their academy.

Maybe they should concentrate on that and forget appealing the fine/ban on Suarez. It's multicultural there these days they should have at least a few lads coming through imo.

_blank_ · 18-11-2011 09:51AM

mixednuts wrote: »

What's he call you back Des ... Negrito

Nope, we don't live in Uruguay, so it would not be acceptable for him to use a term referring to race in Western European culture.

Leiva · 18-11-2011 09:53AM

This place is full of high horses .

Seaneh · 18-11-2011 09:55AM

Is this negrito crap still going on?

In latain american spanish it's normal to call friends/family Negro/Nerga/Negrito/Negrita, it's never (in my experience) used in a derogatory way. I spend several months in South America and more often than not family members used those words to greet/call eachother.

Example:
Hola negra, ya esta la comida?
(Howya love, the dinner ready?).

Also upon expressing my surprise of the use while in Ecuador the family I was with didn't even know about any racist implications for using negro/negra and it was just normal to them.

_blank_ · 18-11-2011 10:07AM

Seaneh wrote: »

Is this negrito crap still going on?

In latain american spanish it's normal to call friends/family Negro/Nerga/Negrito/Negrita, it's never (in my experience) used in a derogatory way. I spend several months in South America and more often than not family members used those words to greet/call eachother.

Example:
Hola negra, ya esta la comida?
(Howya love, the dinner ready?).

Also upon expressing my surprise of the use while in Ecuador the family I was with didn't even know about any racist implications for using negro/negra and it was just normal to them.

That's fine and perfectly acceptable, and fair play to you for posting.

But, out of context, and with a direct translation, that is

"Hi black, is the dinner ready", which to me, translated directly, makes me go a bit :eek:

So, if someone from South America rocks up in England, and during an argument with a black person who speaks some spanish starts calling them "Negrito", you can understand why that black person would be upset. You yourself said you expressed "surprise", I can't really imagine what a black person, who probably isn't aware of the subleties of South American Spanish, would think to being called a name, based on race (which it most certainly is) during an argument.

amiable · 18-11-2011 10:09AM

DB10 wrote: »

It's still quite startling Liverpool havent brought through any black players from their academy.

Maybe they should concentrate on that and forget appealing the fine/ban on Suarez. It's multicultural there these days they should have at least a few lads coming through imo.

Racism - Mod Note on 1st Post - Read before posting.

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