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Racism - Mod Note on 1st Post - Read before posting.

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  • #1382
    eigrod
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,959 ✭✭✭eigrod


    Fuhrer wrote: »
    "Hey Guys! United players did things that are just as bad as Racism! They're all just as bad as each other! Lets just forget about it"

    Explain, is that really how you read my post ?


  • #1383
    curry-muff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,418 ✭✭✭curry-muff


    eigrod wrote: »
    Explain, is that really how you read my post ?

    I'd say its pretty much how every United fan read it, it was a stupid post. Nobody is going to condone Cantona kicking the fan or Keane breaking Haalands leg.

    Ferdinand just missed a drugs test, how are you to know he didn't just forget about it?

    And even in the other two cases Cantona was provoked by the fan and Haaland was sent out to try and injure Keane in the previous match and mocked him when he had a career threatening injury.

    Both were provoked and dealt with badly out of anger and aggression, Mr Suarez did his deed of his own accord, no provocation, that makes his deed as bad, if not worse in my eyes.


  • #1384
    UnitedIrishman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,369 ✭✭✭UnitedIrishman


    eigrod wrote: »
    I'd be curious to know where do you draw your lines with regard to moral judgements on Man Utd players ?

    Was it acceptable behaviour that Cantona kicked that fan ?

    Was it acceptable behaviour that Ferdinand deliberately missed a drugs test and then lied about it ?

    Was it acceptable behaviour that Roy Keane admitted to trying to break Inge-Haaland's leg ?

    Racism is unacceptable, but so are many many other things that footballers do, yet we continue to support them in most instances.

    No.

    No.

    No.

    Happy? In the case of Rio, it took a long long time for fans to forgive him for that and the way he reacted afterwards. And whilst a cracking player, I'll still remember the way he rode us for a contract after 9 months absence.

    Roy got a nice ban from the FA as did Eric. You do realise they were reacting to abuse by the way, in Eric's case he says he was responding to racist abuse. Roy responded to being told to get up and being shouted at whilst laying on the ground with a torn cruciate. So I can see why both lads would be a little upset. Not saying what they did was right at all, but I can understand where they came from.

    Racism is a much bigger issue.


  • #1385
    niallo27
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,137 ✭✭✭✭niallo27


    curry-muff wrote: »
    I'd say its pretty much how every United fan read it, it was a stupid post. Nobody is going to condone Cantona kicking the fan or Keane breaking Haalands leg.

    Ferdinand just missed a drugs test, how are you to know he didn't just forget about it?

    And even in the other two cases Cantona was provoked by the fan and Haaland was sent out to try and injure Keane in the previous match and mocked him when he had a career threatening injury.

    Both were provoked and dealt with badly out of anger and aggression, Mr Suarez did his deed of his own accord, no provocation, that makes his deed as bad, if not worse in my eyes.

    His alleged deed unless you have proof otherwise.


  • #1386
    eigrod
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,959 ✭✭✭eigrod


    curry-muff wrote: »
    I'd say its pretty much how every United fan read it, it was a stupid post. Nobody is going to condone Cantona kicking the fan or Keane breaking Haalands leg.

    Ferdinand just missed a drugs test, how are you to know he didn't just forget about it?

    And even in the other two cases Cantona was provoked by the fan and Haaland was sent out to try and injure Keane in the previous match and mocked him when he had a career threatening injury.

    Both were provoked and dealt with badly out of anger and aggression, Mr Suarez did his deed of his own accord, no provocation, that makes his deed as bad, if not worse in my eyes.

    Did you read it in context ? It was a response to a man utd fan expressing his dismay at a liverpool fan saying he would support Suarez even if he is found guilty.

    My post was in response to this to make the point that all fans are fickle (yes, even Man Utd fans are fickle), irrespective of what a player has been found guilty of, the fans will soon be singing their names from the stands again.

    Some people think racism is worse than breaking a players leg. Others think otherwise. I bet if Suarez is found guilty, his ban won't be as long as Cantonas or Ferdinands.


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  • #1387
    ilovelamp2000
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,435 ✭✭✭ilovelamp2000


    niallo27 wrote: »
    His alleged deed unless you have proof otherwise.

    Do you still think this didn't happen ?

    4 weeks of investigating, statements from everyone and the FA decide there's a case to answer and you're still on the "no evidence" bandwagon ?

    FFS ...

    Suarez gave them the evidence. He's now relying on some cultural misunderstanding (stupidly IMO).

    I can't believe just how myopic some LFC fans are.


  • #1388
    niallo27
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,137 ✭✭✭✭niallo27


    ilovelamp2000 wrote: »
    Do you still think this didn't happen ?

    4 weeks of investigating, statements from everyone and the FA decide there's a case to answer and you're still on the "no evidence" bandwagon ?

    FFS ...

    Suarez gave them the evidence. He's now relying on some cultural misunderstanding (stupidly IMO).

    I can't believe just how myopic some LFC fans are.

    Statements from everyone, really, if you say Suarez gave them the evidence are you saying there was no evidence before it.


  • #1389
    eigrod
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,959 ✭✭✭eigrod


    ilovelamp2000 wrote: »
    Do you still think this didn't happen ?

    4 weeks of investigating, statements from everyone and the FA decide there's a case to answer and you're still on the "no evidence" bandwagon ?

    FFS ...

    Suarez gave them the evidence. He's now relying on some cultural misunderstanding (stupidly IMO).

    I can't believe just how myopic some LFC fans are.

    Did he ? What evidence ? I thought Suarez gave them his version of events in response to Evra giving his version of events.

    Based on both versions of the events, the FA feel Suarez has a case to answer so it's over to them now to try and prove it and for Liverpool's and Suarez' legal people to ask for the evidence and defend the player at his hearing.


  • #1390
    ilovelamp2000
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,435 ✭✭✭ilovelamp2000


    niallo27 wrote: »
    Statements from everyone, really, if you say Suarez gave them the evidence are you saying there was no evidence before it.

    There would have been Evra's statement presumably.

    That's evidence too.


  • #1391
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Fuhrer wrote: »
    "Hey Guys! United players did things that are just as bad as Racism! They're all just as bad as each other! Lets just forget about it"

    What Cantona did was slightly worse than even racism. But that is just MO.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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  • #1392
    ilovelamp2000
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,435 ✭✭✭ilovelamp2000


    eigrod wrote: »
    Did he ? What evidence ? I thought Suarez gave them his version of events in response to Evra giving his version of events.

    Based on both versions of the events, the FA feel Suarez has a case to answer so it's over to them now to try and prove it and for Liverpool's and Suarez' legal people to ask for the evidence and defend the player at his hearing.

    The players' statements are evidence.


  • #1393
    eigrod
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,959 ✭✭✭eigrod


    ilovelamp2000 wrote: »
    There would have been Evra's statement presumably.

    That's evidence too.

    It's not evidence. It's a statement of Evra's version of what happened. Evidence is something that will back up that statement and nobody has mentioned anything about evidence being produced yet.


  • #1394
    curry-muff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,418 ✭✭✭curry-muff


    eigrod wrote: »
    Did you read it in context ? It was a response to a man utd fan expressing his dismay at a liverpool fan saying he would support Suarez even if he is found guilty.

    My post was in response to this to make the point that all fans are fickle (yes, even Man Utd fans are fickle), irrespective of what a player has been found guilty of, the fans will soon be singing their names from the stands again.

    Some people think racism is worse than breaking a players leg. Others think otherwise. I bet if Suarez is found guilty, his ban won't be as long as Cantonas or Ferdinands.

    Never noticed that part, of course supporters are going to stand by their players, still a pretty terrible act if proven to be true.

    There's absolutely no chance his ban will be the length of Cantona's, Eric went out and hurt a fan, Keane went out and broke someones leg. Suarez hurt someones feelings, that's the way it'll be looked at, and he will get 5-8 matches.

    That's in the eyes of the FA, in my eyes its still as bad an act as the other two, its just one of those things that people shouldn't do and I'm happy enough that he will have the shame and lose the respect of some of his teammates on top of the 5-8 match ban.


  • #1395
    eigrod
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,959 ✭✭✭eigrod


    curry-muff wrote: »
    Never noticed that part, of course supporters are going to stand by their players, still a pretty terrible act if proven to be true.

    There's absolutely no chance his ban will be the length of Cantona's, Eric went out and hurt a fan, Keane went out and broke someones leg. Suarez hurt someones feelings, that's the way it'll be looked at, and he will get 5-8 matches.

    That's in the eyes of the FA, in my eyes its still as bad an act as the other two, its just one of those things that people shouldn't do and I'm happy enough that he will have the shame and lose the respect of some of his teammates on top of the 5-8 match ban.

    Exactly.


  • #1396
    ilovelamp2000
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,435 ✭✭✭ilovelamp2000


    eigrod wrote: »
    It's not evidence. It's a statement of Evra's version of what happened. Evidence is something that will back up that statement and nobody has mentioned anything about evidence being produced yet.

    No. A statement is evidence.

    This isn't arguable.


  • #1397
    niallo27
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,137 ✭✭✭✭niallo27


    ilovelamp2000 wrote: »
    There would have been Evra's statement presumably.

    That's evidence too.

    Evras statement would never be enough evidence to convict Suarez, he gave his original statement on tv which is incredibly stupid.


  • #1398
    #15
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,784 ✭✭✭#15


    curry-muff wrote: »
    Keane went out and broke someones leg.
    eigrod wrote: »
    Exactly.


    Wtf, I don't know how this myth is still doing the rounds. Even Keane haters usually acknowledge that he didn't break Haaland's leg. At least criticise him for the correct reason. It's not like there's a shortage of valid reasons, no need to make them up.


  • #1399
    #15
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,784 ✭✭✭#15


    niallo27 wrote: »
    Evras statement would never be enough evidence to convict Suarez, he gave his original statement on tv which is incredibly stupid.

    Niallo, I'm convinced your account is operated by a gang of lads with a few beers who love having a laugh at the SF every evening.:pac:


  • #1400
    niallo27
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,137 ✭✭✭✭niallo27


    ilovelamp2000 wrote: »
    No. A statement is evidence.

    This isn't arguable.

    It's not enough to convict though, no where near enough, you need proof


  • #1401
    Fuhrer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭Fuhrer


    #15 wrote: »
    Wtf, I don't know how this myth is still doing the rounds. Even Keane haters usually acknowledge that he didn't break Haaland's leg. At least criticise him for the correct reason. It's not like there's a shortage of valid reasons, no need to make them up.



    Its how they convince themselves that they're right when they're so obviously wrong.


    Read back over the early pages of this thread and look at a few choice comments from Mr. Alan and the like about Evra having falsely accused the chelsea guy of racism.


    Every time I got proved to be utter bull****, another one would come in and say the exact same thing.


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  • #1402
    ilovelamp2000
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,435 ✭✭✭ilovelamp2000


    niallo27 wrote: »
    Evras statement would never be enough evidence to convict Suarez, he gave his original statement on tv which is incredibly stupid.

    I agree with the first half. But I'm pretty sure following Suarez's interview in Uruguay that's backed up what was said. And is now trying to rely on a dodgy interpretation to get him off.

    Second half I'm indifferent to. I don't think it's of much relevance.


  • #1403
    niallo27
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,137 ✭✭✭✭niallo27


    #15 wrote: »
    Niallo, I'm convinced your account is operated by a gang of lads with a few beers who love having a laugh at the SF every evening.:pac:

    What's wrong with that post, I might have some crazy ones but I thought that one was ok.


  • #1404
    curry-muff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,418 ✭✭✭curry-muff


    Ferdy gives his 2c to Blatter :pac:

    Rio Ferdinand 'astonished' by Sepp Blatter comments on racism
    England and Manchester United defender Rio Ferdinand has said he is astonished by Sepp Blatter's claim that football does not have on-field racism problems.

    The Fifa president said incidents on the pitch could be settled by a handshake after the game, but later claimed he had been misunderstood.

    "Tell me I have just read Blatter's comments wrong... if not then I am astonished," said Ferdinand on Twitter.

    Ferdinand later sent a direct tweet to the 75-year-old head of world football.

    In it, he said: "Your comments on racism are so condescending it's almost laughable. If fans shout racist chants but shake our hands is that OK?"

    The former England captain later added: "I feel stupid for thinking that football was taking a leading role against racism - it seems it was just on mute for a while."

    Blatter's comments come at a time when Chelsea captain John Terry is being investigated by the police and the Football Association over alleged racist remarks made to Ferdinand's brother, QPR defender Anton Ferdinand, in a recent game between the two sides.

    Liverpool's Luis Suarez has also been charged by the Football Association for alleged racist comments towards Ferdinand's Manchester United team-mate Patrice Evra.

    Asked whether he thought racism on the pitch was a problem in modern-day football, Blatter told CNN World Sport: "I would deny it. There is no racism.

    "There is maybe one of the players towards another - he has a word or a gesture which is not the correct one.

    "But the one who is affected by that, he should say 'this is a game'. We are in a game, and at the end of the game, we shake hands, and this can happen, because we have worked so hard against racism and discrimination."


  • #1405
    Blatter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,832 ✭✭✭✭Blatter


    The Independent are suggesting that the FA heard evidense from United players.


  • #1406
    niallo27
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,137 ✭✭✭✭niallo27


    ilovelamp2000 wrote: »
    I agree with the first half. But I'm pretty sure following Suarez's interview in Uruguay that's backed up what was said. And is now trying to rely on a dodgy interpretation to get him off.

    Second half I'm indifferent to. I don't think it's of much relevance.

    Do you not agree Suarez statement sounds more like one from a naive person rather than a racist person.


  • #1407
    curry-muff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,418 ✭✭✭curry-muff


    niallo27 wrote: »
    Do you not agree Suarez statement sounds more like one from a naive person rather than a racist person.

    Is it not possible for someone to be both naive and racist? I'd have thought they would go hand in hand.


  • #1408
    copacetic
    Subscribers Posts: 16,745 ✭✭✭✭copacetic


    Blatter wrote: »
    The Independent are suggesting that the FA heard evidense from United players.

    They also say it is too seperate charges altogether
    The lesser of the two offences Suarez has been charged with is the use of "abusive and/or insulting words and/or behaviour." Typically, that would bring a two-match ban. Suarez is due back in Liverpool from international duty today, when the club will waste no time in discussing the charge with him.


  • #1409
    ilovelamp2000
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,435 ✭✭✭ilovelamp2000


    niallo27 wrote: »
    Do you not agree Suarez statement sounds more like one from a naive person rather than a racist person.

    Stupid rather than naive for me.

    Here's the thing. I kinda agree with Wenger's take on the issue. Stuff gets said on the pitch all the time. I wouldn't judge the character of any player based on what he says on the pitch. I prefer to judge people by what they do rather than what they say, it gives a truer picture.

    But if he did racially abuse Evra he deserves to be punished accordingly.


  • #1410
    niallo27
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,137 ✭✭✭✭niallo27


    curry-muff wrote: »
    Is it not possible for someone to be both naive and racist? I'd have thought they would go hand in hand.

    Wouldn't a racist try to hide behind the no evidence so far to convict scenario, would he have being charged tonight without his statement from last week, I don't know but I doubt it.


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  • #1411
    Blatter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,832 ✭✭✭✭Blatter


    copacetic wrote: »
    They also say it is too seperate charges altogether

    Yeah, they're the only media outlet I've seen claiming that, and suggesting United players gave evidence.


This discussion has been closed.
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