gooner99 wrote: »

Hi DogsFirst,

Just want to ask you a question about tinned fish. I also buy those cheap tins of sardines from lidl/aldi in olive oil for a once a week treat (not sure if I should feed her a tin more often than this). My Springer loves them,I have to hide the open tin instantly to avoid her getting it. My question is about the contents and the freezing. Are these the best type "in olive oil" and should we be avoiding the ones in tomato sauce and also is the fish thats in those tins ok for dogs or does it need to be frozen first?

My dog also loves makeral.She first got some cooked that fell from my plate and is mad for it since. I will however freeze it in future and feed it raw.

Other than that she has been on burns dry food. She doesn't work but can be quite active.

Thanks.

Hi there. Unless I'm mistaken, all tinned food is cooked, it's all part of the preservation process involved in canning, so certainly no need to freeze. Cooked canned food is far far lower in vitamins than it's fresher counterparts as I've highlighted.

When feeding canned fish make sure it is NOT the oil versions that you speak of!!! Brine or tomato is better. The reason for this is that a dog does not require plant oils, they are higher in omega 6 (instead of omega 3, such as oily fish) which actually increases the allergy response. Also all that oil needs a lot fresh vitamins to prevent the crappy fatty acids from going rancid in the body. If your dog does not receive a fresh diet then it is on a food that has vitamins included in it at "the minimum required for growth" (AAFCO pet food guidelines, 1995) and these little vitamins reduce over time. Needless to say this is not ideal for a dog consuming excess fats, such as your oily fish. If you include fresh ingredients, you have less to worry about.

Re "fresh fish" - it needs to be deep frozen for at least 24hrs (to ensure the centre reached -16oC) to kill all known fish nematodes and cysts. So pick up fresh mackerel / herring / fish heads by the kilo from your friendly fish house and put them in the freezer for a few days. Now you're free to include them anyway you like!!

Hope this helps.

hughjohn wrote: »

Hello Dogsfirst ( like your username).
A man that I used to shoot with when I was a boy ( the 70's) fed his dogs mackerel back then!
I have done the same since, although I use the tinned stuff in oil.
having read your posts on this thread I will change to brine as you seem to have done a lot of research on this subject.

Better still hit the fish factory and buy it by the kilo. We seem to be very focused on the fish, I don't know how that happened really. Chicken carcasses are easily as good, perhaps a better balance of everything too. Anyway, as long as we're talkin fresh meat, we're on to a good thing!

Any problems don't hesitate, I love this stuff.

Vizzy wrote: »

Dogsfirst,
I was always lead to believe that chicken and turkey bones would shatter and could damage the dogs mouth and throat.
Know you said earlier that once they reach the stomach they will dissolve but can they damage the dog "on the way down" ?

Another really common question and, somewhat unforgiveably, one that is split 50/50 down the middle between vets (results of 120 phonecalls to Leinster vet practices advertising my nutritional seminar last April).

Raw meaty bones are 99% safe for your dog. Cooked bird bones (just liked cooked meat) have been leached of all the softer minerals, fat and tissue, leaving behind a hard and very brittle, un-nutritious stick of calcium. This can and will splinter, lodge, is hard to digest and may even be passed in the poo. Not a pleasant experience for the patient I imagine. I have only been involved in one non fatal impaction case (and I have now monitored the move of two large groups (+200) of working dogs over to a raw diet, indivivdually I have advised many hundreds more and I have trawled the literature full time for two and a half years as a research consultant) and all I can say is it was a dog fed a dry commercial diet and the bone load was cooked.

Could it happen that your dog would choke on a bone?! Absolutely it could. Choking kills thousands of Americans each year, more than road traffic accidents, the two main culprits being hot dogs followed by chewing gum. So never feed a hot dog to your kid?! Also building blocks kills children. More people die on the stairs of your house than electric shock AND fire combined!! No more bungalows. Another example, I have seen footage of a dead dingo, it choked to death on a rabbit / roo skin!! He was chewing it up and a bit of hide lodged around his molar, he swallowed the lump, it lodged and choked him. So cut fresh meat from the dingo? Obviously the point is millions of dogs are safe, one dog may choke. Ironically this is natural and by removing the dog with the smaller throat / gaps in the teeth / weak stomach acid / poorly formed wrectum, it improves the dog over time....but that stuff isn't relevant anymore.....

It is a myth that has been established either because choking incidences rose a little with the move of dogs to a softer commercial diet (lets rough foods, less keratinised oesophagus, poorer digestive abilities etc) or because the image of a dog eating a raw bone was "bad for business". True smaller dogs will obviously have more of a problem, flat faced dogs particularly, missing crucial teeth, useless undershot jaws etc, so these owners need to take extra care (smash with mallet, chop, feed slowly etc)

Whatever the reason, dog's need 'em. I advise people feeding dry or moist commerical diets to introduce bones slowly to your dogs. If their teeth are bad gums may bleed intially but this is a vital step in the road to recovery. Start with chicken carcass bits. Smash with mallet if worried for first few weeks. Young pups should be started on bones by 6-8 weeks. Little chicken wings, chopped up / minced if you prefer.

Don't feed: cooked bones, load bearing bones such as leg bones (much harder, more likely to clash and break teeth), dessicated bones, don't feed pack dogs bones together (encourages wolfing).

Do feed: smaller softer bones such as ribs, lamb necks are brilliant (find a factory outlet / abbatoir, they're everywhere, get them cheap and in bulk, save you a fortune). Fish heads are best, tough image initially perhaps!!

Bones should be fed twice a week if feeding 14 meals.


Hope this helps!

(I have to try shorten my answers!)

fodda wrote: »

Be plenty of turkey necks soon......maybe the people would be only to glad for someone to take them?

Stick em in the freezer till you want to use them.

Hey great idea that, I know just the place too, round the corner from me. Nice one!

hughjohn wrote: »

Well , I fed my 2 dogs half a raw chicken between them today.

They were slow enough taking it on and looked up at me several times while eating ( not sure whether twa's they couldn't believe it or cos they wanted it cooked) . Anyway they did eat it all , bones included eventually.

So DogsFirst I was wondering what is your opinion of feeding some brown rice?

Rice is ok, brown has fibre which the fog doesn't need at all, makes the pops bigger and wetter, but it also has more vitamins. And its carnal. So now and again, certainly if they're workin, cheap little bulker. Cook rice in the water left over from steaming their veg each week!