Feedwell dog food

kermitpwee

Ayone use Feedwell?
Thinking of changing the dogs onto it as I cant afford 38euro a bag that they are on. I can get the Feedwell locally for 15euro for 15kg so it would suit. Anybody using it and how do yee find it?

macadam

Its pure crap, where are you living?

J.R.

kermitpwee wrote: »

Ayone use Feedwell?
Thinking of changing the dogs onto it as I cant afford 38euro a bag that they are on. I can get the Feedwell locally for 15euro for 15kg so it would suit. Anybody using it and how do yee find it?

My cocker is overweight.....had her neutered years ago & she's put on weight since.

The vet has her on Royal Canin Obesity Management. It is definitely working & she's losing weight but it's €38 for 6kg bag!!

deerhunter1

kermitpwee wrote: »

Ayone use Feedwell?
Thinking of changing the dogs onto it as I cant afford 38euro a bag that they are on. I can get the Feedwell locally for 15euro for 15kg so it would suit. Anybody using it and how do yee find it?

kasco complete 15-18 euro 15kg bag 22% protein have my lab and springer on it 5yrs no prob

Browning2010

J.R. wrote: »

My cocker is overweight.....had her neutered years ago & she's put on weight since.

The vet has her on Royal Canin Obesity Management. It is definitely working & she's losing weight but it's €38 for 6kg bag!!

38 euro for a 6kg bag, I would in my rocks pay that.

Mine are on Feedwell and it does them grand during the season,(the orange bag) if your getting that for 15euro your doing well.

There fed the stuff from lidl out of season.

People get too wound up in what too feed there dogs, what were dogs ever fed years ago, scraps, and they hunted just aswell in my opinion.

Outkast_IRE

Browning2010 wrote: »

38 euro for a 6kg bag, I would in my rocks pay that.

Mine are on Feedwell and it does them grand during the season,(the orange bag) if your getting that for 15euro your doing well.

There fed the stuff from lidl out of season.

People get too wound up in what too feed there dogs, what were dogs ever fed years ago, scraps, and they hunted just aswell in my opinion.

Ya because scraps would be way more nutricious than most dog foods , thing of what scraps actually are, off cuts from good meat, leftover vegies etc.
Thats the ingredient list of some of the best dog foods out there like orjen etc

These cheap dog foods are just all bulking grain with little meat or veg.
I changed to better dog foods like Orjen and Lukullus and it works out only a little dearer than a bag of the cheap stuff cause you feed way less of it daily.
My dog lost a good few Kgs when we changed to orjen because there is no grains in it .

doyle61

I had mine on feedwell (orange bag) but changed to chudlies a few months ago. Way better than the feedwell and it's only €18.50 for 15kg bag

round tower huntsman

not much difference between any of the dried foods.............they're all crap. i use dry stuff only when i've no bones meat or scraps. scraps are fine for dogs if the scraps are decent,good meat and veg. i used feedwell and found it better then other dry stuff. but tbh the best you could feed your dog is meat and bones and scraps.

Birdnuts

J.R. wrote: »

My cocker is overweight.....had her neutered years ago & she's put on weight since.

The vet has her on Royal Canin Obesity Management. It is definitely working & she's losing weight but it's €38 for 6kg bag!!

Thats an astonishing price - a few bags of that would pay for her own treadmill:pac:

PS: I have my lot on Silverhill with scraps - seem to be doing well on it too. Some dried brands are indeed awfull. One type I tried a while back(had a Spanish sounding name so I should have known:rolleyes:) was more like rabbit food and actually had bits of straw in it:eek::mad:

meoklmrk91

J.R. wrote: »

My cocker is overweight.....had her neutered years ago & she's put on weight since.

The vet has her on Royal Canin Obesity Management. It is definitely working & she's losing weight but it's €38 for 6kg bag!!

To anyone that is having a hard time keeping up with paying for dog food locally, go onto zooplus.co.uk, not the Irish one, and you will get some great deals. Better still buy the economy packs and save even more. For instance here is one of the royal canin light foods, 30KG for £82.99 and free delivery. Much better value money.

http://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/dogs/dry_dog_food/royal_canin_size/maxi/13417

kermitpwee

macadam wrote: »

Its pure crap, where are you living?

Living in Mayo.

macadam

PM sent

Shoot2kill

I changed the four springer's onto Royal Canin two weeks ago. And the difference in them is unbelievable! Its more expensive initially but when you break down what it costs per day, per head, there's not a great difference.

It's very rich and high in protein and the quantity your feeding is very small. It's 90% digestable too, unlike most dry foods mentioned which are only 40%, which means there is less sh#t to be cleaning up too.

I researched it a lot and this feed seems to be one of the best on the market. Oh and if anyone decides to buy it or is already buying it, make sure you go for the "veterinary only" range, there is slightly different ingredients but is the same cost. Seems to be better tack again.

S2K.

J.R.

Shoot2kill wrote: »

I changed the four springer's onto Royal Canin two weeks ago. And the difference in them is unbelievable! Its more expensive initially but when you break down what it costs per day, per head, there's not a great difference.

It's very rich and high in protein and the quantity your feeding is very small. It's 90% digestable too, unlike most dry foods mentioned which are only 40%, which means there is less sh#t to be cleaning up too.

I researched it a lot and this feed seems to be one of the best on the market. Oh and if anyone decides to buy it or is already buying it, make sure you go for the "veterinary only" range, there is slightly different ingredients but is the same cost. Seems to be better tack again.

S2K.

Have to admit the Royal Canin does not work out as dear as it sounds......much smaller portions so bag lasts a long time.

The 6kg bag lasts 6 weeks with a cocker so it works out at roughly €6.30 per week or 90c per day.....cheap tins of dog food would cost more!

E. Fudd

I have my lab bitch on "Real Nature, beef and makerel" dried food. €70 for 15 KGs, but she only needs 400g/day which works out at about €1.85 per day to have a dog with great condition on her.
When I shoot the odd stinky stag / buck I dice up most of the meat form it and supplement the dried stuff with it, but reduce it's amount accordingly. Cant recommend the Real Natue food enough.

kermitpwee

Thanks lads. After seeing the way the springer worked on saturday I'll keep him on what he is on, worked his socks off he did. He is like a new dog.

Birdnuts

Has anyone tried the above product??, and if so how have they found it?? - its currently for sale in my local co-op at a very reasonable price!!

DogsFirst

kermitpwee wrote: »

Ayone use Feedwell?
Thinking of changing the dogs onto it as I cant afford 38euro a bag that they are on. I can get the Feedwell locally for 15euro for 15kg so it would suit. Anybody using it and how do yee find it?

If you cut your dogs food bill from €3/kg to €1/kg you will end up paying for it in the long run. Instead why not go to the local fish factory and ask for fish heads. Free and the best source of nutrition for a dog next to fresh chicken carcass. One replaces the other fine (Zinn et al. 2009). Or go to your local fish shop.

Don't worry, fresh heads don't smell and you'll freeze once home. Also a dog eating fish doesn't smell of fish. For many reasons but in short strong stomach acids rapidly reduce the protein, eliminating lingering odours. This is important for a carnivore who doesn't want to smell like a chipper on hunts.

Other cash saving ideas, make your own food. Lidl say, €1.29/kg of veg, €3/kg mince, tins of sardines are 40c!!! 400g tins of pink salmon for €1.39 (and no I don't work for Lidl but damn they're cheap!!!) At it's most expensive I am making my own for €1.60/kg (using fish heads and chicken carcasses / thighs from a butcher factory outlet that processes such meat). If you are in doubt I can send you info of how to do it yourself.

Cheap dog food is known to agitate caged dogs in less than 8 weeks (Case et al 2000). While little else is proven, good food does not, cannot cost €1/kg.

Bottom line if you cut your dogs food bill from €3/kg to €1/kg you and he will end up paying for it in the long run.

Best of luck, hope this helps!

DogsFirst

J.R. wrote: »

My cocker is overweight.....had her neutered years ago & she's put on weight since.

The vet has her on Royal Canin Obesity Management. It is definitely working & she's losing weight but it's €38 for 6kg bag!!

Neutering has very little to do with your dogs weight. Many people quote "well he did he get neutered...". Asides the fact that dry food is 50% carbohydrate, something a dog (as a carnivore) needs absolutely none of

“...dogs have absolutely no requirement for plant carbohydrate”
Dog Food Nutrient Profiles, Association of American Feed Control Officials (AAFCO, 2008)

“...there appears to be no requirement for carbohydrate provided enough protein is given”
American National Research Council’s Committee on Animal Nutrition (2006)


Carbs, like in humans, are turned to sugar by the body and what is not used is stored as fat. Your dog is only eating what you are putting into him. The other reason for obesity is lack of activity.

If condition is what you're after the above things need to be addressed. So cut out the carbs and get a more natural, protein filled din dins into him (excess protein is harmlessly rid by the liver and kidneys, even dogs with only 25% of their kidney function do perfect on high protein diets Finco et al (1992), Robertson et al (1986)). Or substitute as often as possible the dry muck for better (and cheaper) options such as a tin of sardines (40c from lidl), chicken carcass, raw meaty bones, table scraps, lamb necks, whatever. Protein good. Carbs bad.

And run the legs off him every day!!

Hope this helps.

DogsFirst

Browning2010 wrote: »

People get too wound up in what too feed there dogs, what were dogs ever fed years ago, scraps, and they hunted just aswell in my opinion.

I have a question for everyone. Assuming that everyone who feeds their dog dry food thinks the dog is an out and out omnivore, feeding them food which contains more carbs in it and less meat than is recommended for a human adult, which of the following foods would you prefer to feed your kids?

Table scraps left over from the dinner you prepared yourself or chemically treated dry crackers cooked a year ago that cost €1/kg?

Mauser 308

Anyone try the pro pac feed, my vet in mullingar keeps pushing it as the best thing ever.
I was feeding feedwell sport and a lot of scraps from the the table. Also the dogs get a lot of venison off cuts and bones. Lately ie last month or so I have found they wont eat the dog nuts. This is not ideal as they are working hard at the moment with the pheasents in. I always liked to know they a good meal and then supplement with scrapps and off cuts when working hard. But its hard to get a balanced diet if they are gone off the nuts.

DogsFirst

If price is an indicator then it appears that prop pac must be pretty good. They do call themselves "super premium" which is enough for vets to recommend the food. Vets have very little knowledge of the products they recommend, they haven't seen them tested nor do the products provide such information, just spurious claims like "unsuprassed nutrition". So I wouldn't place too much value on what the vet recommends. At the end of the day if he/she is recommending a processed food at €4.30/kg as the best way to feed your dog (50% more expensive than free range chicken) I'd be asking how they know it is.

Your dog sounds like he was getting the gold standard already, venison cuts, organs and bones, brilliant stuff. The harder they work the more food they need. Forget about levels of fat and exact nutrient levels that sporty bags of food boast. If you are including fresh ingredients and fresh meat these things take care of themselves. I have a lot of experience with working dogs and in general I can say the best (and cheapest way) to get the stuff they need to focus and energise, is raw oil fish like mackerel (be it heads from your local shop or by bought by the kilo from a fish factory,). Dirt cheap, and truly is "unsurpassed nutrition"!
Or thrown in the odd tin of sardines (40c in lidl) etc. Free range chicken drumsticks, thighs and wings €3/kg. Great stuff.

If you feel that the kibble is adding anything to the dogs food and are determined to use it as a base (like serving a steak supper on a pizza base) I would look for the most natural variety, certainly one with zero gluten in it, allows your working dogs to fully absorb the good stuff from the better, fresh ingredients.

Bottom line, the harder they work the more food they need and the fresher the ingredients need to be (giving them the vital vitamin boost). Just like human athletes. No dry food today (which are cooked, processed, low in protein, poor quality protein, vitamins included at the "minimum required for growth") can provide your working dogs with what you are looking for.

Hope this helps!

PS. A farmer friend of mine says there are a lot less pheasants this year due to the kestrel populations recovering, what do you think?

Mauser 308

DogsFirst wrote: »

PS. A farmer friend of mine says there are a lot less pheasants this year due to the kestrel populations recovering, what do you think?

Yea I am hearing the same from a lot of guys I know. I have seen a fair few myself but have put up a lot of walking millage. Other friends who would normaly have quite a few by now are saying they are very scarse.

A quick query how do you perpare the fish ie Mackrel. Is it raw? if so are the bones not dangerous. I have a good fre mackrel in the freezer from the summer.

DogsFirst

Fish should be fed raw to dogs. That said it is vital that the fish is deep frozen first (below -17oC for longer than 24hrs, which is most freezers in the home, certainly chest freezers, which I know you have!!) to destroy gut worms. While dogs are capable of handling any parasite (salmonella, ecoli, septacemia as they have co-evolved with them) they have not co evolved with fish parasites and are therefore as susceptible as we are to them. Freezing below this temp destroys all known worms and eggs.

If the question was has a dog ever choked on a fish, I would have to say most likely, but I have never seen or heard of it occur, and it is not in the literature. Bones are absolutely not an issue. In fact the literature is dotted with so many more dogs choke on toys, leads, underpants, stones etc Dogs have extra wide, keratinised oesophagus and acidc stomachs of ph1 which reduces most bones to chyme in an hour. Fish and chicken bones are extremely soft (flexible) so even easier. And fish bones/cartilidge is where it's at nutritionally (just think of all that condroitin pills that are pushed by vets etc for healthy and hard worked joints, like in your dog, this stuff is cartilidge in a pill form, absolute racket).

A loose rule of thumb in feeding your dog is bones feed bones, cartilage feeds cartilage, eyes eyes, meat fuels muscle maintenance etc.

I would feed them whole and raw. Any processing on your behalf merely reduces the digestibility, the omegas, probiotics, vitamin and mineral content.

The dog will invariably eat them head first as that's the best bit. Watch them for the first few, especially if you have hounds as they tend to wolf like sea gulls. They'll get used to them. Chop up or smash with mallet for first few if you are afraid of choking.

If you have any queries on bone feeding, or are informed by vet or some other party of their inherent dangers I can send you all the info you need on bone feeding, it's recommendation by the highest informed vet dental councils etc. Outside of "the industry" everyone is in agreement, your dogs need 'em.

Hope this helps!

EastTyrone

my local gundog trainer reckons feedwell is not all that it's made out to be, feedwell is high in fish and many dogs can be alergic to this and it can also lead to thinniing of hair on dogs and lead to some skin dissorders, he recommends guilpa kennel, it is made from chicken and rice i think and also has very high oil and protein level.

Mauser 308

Gave the dogs some raw mackrel there this evening but they showed no interest. So tried a tin of tuna in oil, they laped up the oil but left the tuna.
I would like to find a good nut that they will eat to act as a substitute when I cant get enough scraps etc. I make up a large pot of stew for them once or twice a week. Usually with veg ie onion, celary, carrot and cabbage, then plenty of venison cuts and some bones (for marrow) and usualy a packet of soup to finnish it off. I give it to them each day along with a helping of nuts. The problem I find is the days when I have no stew they wont touch the nuts. Even after a hard days shooting. I know a lot of people would say "when they are hungry enough they will eat it" but I always like to know they have had a decent meal.
I agree scraps and food we make up ourselves is better but I really want to find a good nut that they will eat for when I dont have the best stuff.

macadam

Lads I was buying dog food of a guy in south Laois Kevin, he designed this especially for working dogs he breeds and trials dogs and is hunting man, the only problem you have to buy in bulk ie 60 bags @ about €11 and he guarantees it wont go off, my 3 loved it.
The same stuff is being sold in the shops for double the money anyone who wants his number PM me maybe we could buy a bulk load and split it, I can manage storage for 30 bags. I am in Louth..

tfox

Dunno what you guys are talking bout feeding scraps

If my dogs relied on scraps they'd starvem nothing left on my plate

Mine are fed Brilly's choice. I soak it in warm water in the winter plus they get meat and bones from deer carcasses, local meat factory the local hunt kennels.

DogsFirst

"Gave the dogs some raw mackrel there this evening but they showed no interest. So tried a tin of tuna in oil, they laped up the oil but left the tuna".

I know you're looking for a good bag of dry food M but I won't be reccomending any, not for a working dog.

Re the pickiness, this only occurs in a dry fed pup who was born to a dry fed mother. Having never experienced many normal flavours the dogs are born without the affinity for the stuff. This is an often mis understood situtation. Serpell (1995) demonstrated how a variety of small breed dogs (poodles, daschunds, Yorkshore terriers and Cavalier King Charles spaniels) were reared on specific diets until two years old, one of which provided a limited flavour experience in the form of a nutritionally complete puppy food and two of which provided a variety of prepared and fresh foods. “Those fed a variety of flavours showed an immediate preference for the novel food but the flavour restricted groups preferred their usual food”.

Kuo (1967) hand reared Chow Chow pups birth to six months of age on one of three diets. Those reared on a single protein diet would eat no novel food. Those reared on a mixed vegetarian diet would eat no animal protein. Those reared on a varied diet would eat any new food. In short, variety while young reduces pickiness.

Thus in the past it has been easy to conclude from our dog turning his nose up at new food that he simply doesn't like it but this says little for the nutritional value of the food item offered. He is in fact doing himself out of a food that he would ver much “like” if his little brain would give him the chance. However not trying new and potentially lethal foods in this way has done well by dogs up to this point and if it stops him eating a variety of things that will lay him out (poisonous mushrooms and insects) I'm all for it. Get that food in there (minced up) whilst very young, preferably beginning with the pregnant bitch.

The mistake is assuming a dog will eat it if presented with it, but they won't. Changing a dog fed processed food all its life to fresh ingredients is a gradual process, little bit at a time. Start with the brine juice from tuna, then 10% tuna, then 20% etc. By the end of the week they'll eat the tin.

DogsFirst

EastTyrone wrote: »

my local gundog trainer reckons feedwell is not all that it's made out to be, feedwell is high in fish and many dogs can be alergic to this and it can also lead to thinniing of hair on dogs and lead to some skin dissorders, he recommends guilpa kennel, it is made from chicken and rice i think and also has very high oil and protein level.

I think you're local gundog trainer may have been misled in the past ET. Raw fish is brilliant stuff and it has never ever been documented that a dog be allergic to it unless having first developed an allergy to the protein from being on the same fish protein for longer than 18mths (as with dry food) or consuming too much cooked fish protein (dry food). These two reasons is why beef and chicken rank in the top 3 allergens for dogs. Either way, it doesn't happen. In fact food allergy was first discovered in the 1920's by a chap who found he was allergic to cooked fish (but not raw).

Cooking denatures the protein in meat (think frying an egg) and cooking animal protein for long toughens it and denatures it (cooking a steak). Some bodies don't recognise the protein once it goes in and reacts to it. Dry food is cooked at 130oC for 30mins so what very little animal protein is actually in it is completely denatured and wholly indigestible (hence the large masses of poos in a dry fed dog, that and all the cheap indigestible plant protein and fibre).

Dogs are carnivores, they have evolved to eat meat full time. A dog allergic to fish (or beef or chicken) is like a cow allergic to grass.

As for fish thinning hair and causing skin allergy, the exact opposite is the case. Your skin and hair use 40% of the protein you eat every day. It needs large amounts of high quality highly digestible protein (fish), not to mention oily fish contains buckets of zinc, magnesium, selenium etc, vital for skin and hair growth and maintenance. Finally, and most importantly, oily fish is the source of fish oil and fish oil, in particular the omega 3 in fish oil, is proven to reduce skin allergy inflammation in dogs (please read Watson 1998, great article on skin inflammation in dogs). To suggest a dry food (using largely veg oil) with only 20% cooked protein (the rest carbs the dog doesn't need, raising blood sugars, leading to pancreatitis, diabetes, hyperactivity, overweight, cancer) would be a better option for a dog showing skin/hair issues isn't the way to go.

Dogs need fresh ingredients, like us, and every other animal on the planet. It has taken a lot of money to convince dog owners and vets otherwise.

Best of luck with it anyway, hope this helps!

Mauser 308

kermitpwee wrote: »

Ayone use Feedwell?
Thinking of changing the dogs onto it as I cant afford 38euro a bag that they are on. I can get the Feedwell locally for 15euro for 15kg so it would suit. Anybody using it and how do yee find it?

As a matter of interest what were they on ie €38 a bag? Cheers

kermitpwee

Mauser 308 wrote: »

As a matter of interest what were they on ie €38 a bag? Cheers

I kept them on it as they are working way better than ever before, on it 6 months now. Markus Muhle
http://www.zooplus.ie/shop/dogs/dry_dog_food/markus_muehle

steyrman2

just switched my 4 dogs over to feedwell for the hunting season will give a honest report in a few weeks time

fallowbuck

Lads I feed my working dogs mackerel for many years as I fish of the rocks and head out to sea doing some charter fishing during the summer and it is great stuff that's all I can say, along with Pasta and scraps. They have glossy coats especially that Patterdales they look well and plenty of energy out in the field.It generally runs out after Christmas and I head on to the nuts Tracker 20% protein the condition of the coat don't be long going. So thumbs up for fish. Well mackerel anyway.

DogsFirst

fallowbuck wrote: »

Lads I feed my working dogs mackerel for many years as I fish of the rocks and head out to sea doing some charter fishing during the summer and it is great stuff that's all I can say, along with Pasta and scraps. They have glossy coats especially that Patterdales they look well and plenty of energy out in the field.It generally runs out after Christmas and I head on to the nuts Tracker 20% protein the condition of the coat don't be long going. So thumbs up for fish. Well mackerel anyway.

Thats great news FB. You can't beat it. If you're feeding them fresh I would be looking out for the worms. Generally fresh fed dogs have immense immunity to all these bugs but fish worm cysts don't dissolve in the stomach. Now and again I would dose with a wormer if fed fresh fish.

Why the name Fallow Buck? I worked on the deer population on Phoenix Park (600 heads) for 4 years, covering the fawning, all the mating (college stuff ok!) and unfortunately all the other stuff that comes with lots of deer and cars. Incredible animals, phoenix park on a bright September morning, mist rising, bucks rutting, there's a song in there somewhere....

Finally, any chance you would email / PM me what you mentioned above?! Not so much a testimonial but the more real Irish people that I have saying such a thing (especially if you're a dog breeder, have working dogs....) the easier it is for me to put my point across to Irish vets (I conduct seminars on canine nutrition for canine professionals. While I am recognised by the Vet council of Ireland, the first independent to be, vets are unsurprisingly proving a stone wall to reason. It is my mission to chip away at this...).

I am on these sites to find these people.

fallowbuck

I'll pm you later;:)

gooner99

DogsFirst wrote: »

If you cut your dogs food bill from €3/kg to €1/kg you will end up paying for it in the long run. Instead why not go to the local fish factory and ask for fish heads. Free and the best source of nutrition for a dog next to fresh chicken carcass. One replaces the other fine (Zinn et al. 2009). Or go to your local fish shop.

Don't worry, fresh heads don't smell and you'll freeze once home. Also a dog eating fish doesn't smell of fish. For many reasons but in short strong stomach acids rapidly reduce the protein, eliminating lingering odours. This is important for a carnivore who doesn't want to smell like a chipper on hunts.

Other cash saving ideas, make your own food. Lidl say, €1.29/kg of veg, €3/kg mince, tins of sardines are 40c!!! 400g tins of pink salmon for €1.39 (and no I don't work for Lidl but damn they're cheap!!!) At it's most expensive I am making my own for €1.60/kg (using fish heads and chicken carcasses / thighs from a butcher factory outlet that processes such meat). If you are in doubt I can send you info of how to do it yourself.

Cheap dog food is known to agitate caged dogs in less than 8 weeks (Case et al 2000). While little else is proven, good food does not, cannot cost €1/kg.

Bottom line if you cut your dogs food bill from €3/kg to €1/kg you and he will end up paying for it in the long run.

Best of luck, hope this helps!

Hi DogsFirst,

Just want to ask you a question about tinned fish. I also buy those cheap tins of sardines from lidl/aldi in olive oil for a once a week treat (not sure if I should feed her a tin more often than this). My Springer loves them,I have to hide the open tin instantly to avoid her getting it. My question is about the contents and the freezing. Are these the best type "in olive oil" and should we be avoiding the ones in tomato sauce and also is the fish thats in those tins ok for dogs or does it need to be frozen first?

My dog also loves makeral.She first got some cooked that fell from my plate and is mad for it since. I will however freeze it in future and feed it raw.

Other than that she has been on burns dry food. She doesn't work but can be quite active.

Thanks.

DogsFirst

gooner99 wrote: »

Hi DogsFirst,

Just want to ask you a question about tinned fish. I also buy those cheap tins of sardines from lidl/aldi in olive oil for a once a week treat (not sure if I should feed her a tin more often than this). My Springer loves them,I have to hide the open tin instantly to avoid her getting it. My question is about the contents and the freezing. Are these the best type "in olive oil" and should we be avoiding the ones in tomato sauce and also is the fish thats in those tins ok for dogs or does it need to be frozen first?

My dog also loves makeral.She first got some cooked that fell from my plate and is mad for it since. I will however freeze it in future and feed it raw.

Other than that she has been on burns dry food. She doesn't work but can be quite active.

Thanks.

Hi there. Unless I'm mistaken, all tinned food is cooked, it's all part of the preservation process involved in canning, so certainly no need to freeze. Cooked canned food is far far lower in vitamins than it's fresher counterparts as I've highlighted.

When feeding canned fish make sure it is NOT the oil versions that you speak of!!! Brine or tomato is better. The reason for this is that a dog does not require plant oils, they are higher in omega 6 (instead of omega 3, such as oily fish) which actually increases the allergy response. Also all that oil needs a lot fresh vitamins to prevent the crappy fatty acids from going rancid in the body. If your dog does not receive a fresh diet then it is on a food that has vitamins included in it at "the minimum required for growth" (AAFCO pet food guidelines, 1995) and these little vitamins reduce over time. Needless to say this is not ideal for a dog consuming excess fats, such as your oily fish. If you include fresh ingredients, you have less to worry about.

Re "fresh fish" - it needs to be deep frozen for at least 24hrs (to ensure the centre reached -16oC) to kill all known fish nematodes and cysts. So pick up fresh mackerel / herring / fish heads by the kilo from your friendly fish house and put them in the freezer for a few days. Now you're free to include them anyway you like!!

Hope this helps.

hughjohn

Hello Dogsfirst ( like your username).
A man that I used to shoot with when I was a boy ( the 70's) fed his dogs mackerel back then!
I have done the same since, although I use the tinned stuff in oil.
having read your posts on this thread I will change to brine as you seem to have done a lot of research on this subject.

DogsFirst

hughjohn wrote: »

Hello Dogsfirst ( like your username).
A man that I used to shoot with when I was a boy ( the 70's) fed his dogs mackerel back then!
I have done the same since, although I use the tinned stuff in oil.
having read your posts on this thread I will change to brine as you seem to have done a lot of research on this subject.

Better still hit the fish factory and buy it by the kilo. We seem to be very focused on the fish, I don't know how that happened really. Chicken carcasses are easily as good, perhaps a better balance of everything too. Anyway, as long as we're talkin fresh meat, we're on to a good thing!

Any problems don't hesitate, I love this stuff.

Vizzy

Dogsfirst,
I was always lead to believe that chicken and turkey bones would shatter and could damage the dogs mouth and throat.
Know you said earlier that once they reach the stomach they will dissolve but can they damage the dog "on the way down" ?

DogsFirst

Vizzy wrote: »

Dogsfirst,
I was always lead to believe that chicken and turkey bones would shatter and could damage the dogs mouth and throat.
Know you said earlier that once they reach the stomach they will dissolve but can they damage the dog "on the way down" ?

Another really common question and, somewhat unforgiveably, one that is split 50/50 down the middle between vets (results of 120 phonecalls to Leinster vet practices advertising my nutritional seminar last April).

Raw meaty bones are 99% safe for your dog. Cooked bird bones (just liked cooked meat) have been leached of all the softer minerals, fat and tissue, leaving behind a hard and very brittle, un-nutritious stick of calcium. This can and will splinter, lodge, is hard to digest and may even be passed in the poo. Not a pleasant experience for the patient I imagine. I have only been involved in one non fatal impaction case (and I have now monitored the move of two large groups (+200) of working dogs over to a raw diet, indivivdually I have advised many hundreds more and I have trawled the literature full time for two and a half years as a research consultant) and all I can say is it was a dog fed a dry commercial diet and the bone load was cooked.

Could it happen that your dog would choke on a bone?! Absolutely it could. Choking kills thousands of Americans each year, more than road traffic accidents, the two main culprits being hot dogs followed by chewing gum. So never feed a hot dog to your kid?! Also building blocks kills children. More people die on the stairs of your house than electric shock AND fire combined!! No more bungalows. Another example, I have seen footage of a dead dingo, it choked to death on a rabbit / roo skin!! He was chewing it up and a bit of hide lodged around his molar, he swallowed the lump, it lodged and choked him. So cut fresh meat from the dingo? Obviously the point is millions of dogs are safe, one dog may choke. Ironically this is natural and by removing the dog with the smaller throat / gaps in the teeth / weak stomach acid / poorly formed wrectum, it improves the dog over time....but that stuff isn't relevant anymore.....

It is a myth that has been established either because choking incidences rose a little with the move of dogs to a softer commercial diet (lets rough foods, less keratinised oesophagus, poorer digestive abilities etc) or because the image of a dog eating a raw bone was "bad for business". True smaller dogs will obviously have more of a problem, flat faced dogs particularly, missing crucial teeth, useless undershot jaws etc, so these owners need to take extra care (smash with mallet, chop, feed slowly etc)

Whatever the reason, dog's need 'em. I advise people feeding dry or moist commerical diets to introduce bones slowly to your dogs. If their teeth are bad gums may bleed intially but this is a vital step in the road to recovery. Start with chicken carcass bits. Smash with mallet if worried for first few weeks. Young pups should be started on bones by 6-8 weeks. Little chicken wings, chopped up / minced if you prefer.

Don't feed: cooked bones, load bearing bones such as leg bones (much harder, more likely to clash and break teeth), dessicated bones, don't feed pack dogs bones together (encourages wolfing).

Do feed: smaller softer bones such as ribs, lamb necks are brilliant (find a factory outlet / abbatoir, they're everywhere, get them cheap and in bulk, save you a fortune). Fish heads are best, tough image initially perhaps!!

Bones should be fed twice a week if feeding 14 meals.


Hope this helps!

(I have to try shorten my answers!)

hughjohn

Well , I fed my 2 dogs half a raw chicken between them today.

They were slow enough taking it on and looked up at me several times while eating ( not sure whether twa's they couldn't believe it or cos they wanted it cooked) . Anyway they did eat it all , bones included eventually.

So DogsFirst I was wondering what is your opinion of feeding some brown rice?

round tower huntsman

get your butcher to get you boxes of chicken necks, feed em raw, great for working dogs, but only if they are getting plenty of work and exercise,very high in protein.

fodda

Be plenty of turkey necks soon......maybe the people would be only to glad for someone to take them?

Stick em in the freezer till you want to use them.

DogsFirst

fodda wrote: »

Be plenty of turkey necks soon......maybe the people would be only to glad for someone to take them?

Stick em in the freezer till you want to use them.

Hey great idea that, I know just the place too, round the corner from me. Nice one!

DogsFirst

round tower huntsman wrote: »

get your butcher to get you boxes of chicken necks, feed em raw, great for working dogs, but only if they are getting plenty of work and exercise,very high in protein.

It's not the protein you need to watch in that respect, its the fat and carbs that are stored as fat. Protein that isn't used is harmlessly deaminated by the liver and out in the wee. And dogs are carnivores, protein is their thing, they have absolutely no requirement for carnal / cereal!

So go mad!

DogsFirst

hughjohn wrote: »

Well , I fed my 2 dogs half a raw chicken between them today.

They were slow enough taking it on and looked up at me several times while eating ( not sure whether twa's they couldn't believe it or cos they wanted it cooked) . Anyway they did eat it all , bones included eventually.

So DogsFirst I was wondering what is your opinion of feeding some brown rice?

Rice is ok, brown has fibre which the fog doesn't need at all, makes the pops bigger and wetter, but it also has more vitamins. And its carnal. So now and again, certainly if they're workin, cheap little bulker. Cook rice in the water left over from steaming their veg each week!