Munster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

Fishooks12 · 14-11-2011 03:53PM

LeeroyJones wrote: »

Only caught highlights of the match. What was particularly good about O'Mahony's performance? Ball in hand, breakdown, big hits/intensity?

From an Irish perspective it would be great if he was a man for the breakdown. Even Ireland aside, for Munster it would be great if he develops more as an openside.

Huge amount of work around the park, huge intensity and some decent carrying .

Anyone else get a giggle out of the sky commentators saying POM was in "the same mould as SOB". Really lazy analysis, two completely different players.

Amazotheamazing · 14-11-2011 04:36PM

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Huge amount of work around the park, huge intensity and some decent carrying .

Anyone else get a giggle out of the sky commentators saying POM was in "the same mould as SOB". Really lazy analysis, two completely different players.

God, that is really, really lazy. Nothing alike at all really.

Fishooks12 · 14-11-2011 04:42PM

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

God, that is really, really lazy. Nothing alike at all really.

In the same game Barnes(unable to admit he's wrong), commented on the great play of SOB for winning a ball on the deck, understandable as SOB had been involved in the previous ruck but he then went on to analysis the ruck, which clearly showed a number 2 on the back of Strauss yet he kept with the line of "great play by Sean O'Brien" rather than admit his mistake.

It's a bit like the constant comparison (and this is RTE not Sky) between Dennis Leamy and Paddy Butler just because they're both from Cashel. It really grinds my gears!

danthefan · 14-11-2011 05:28PM

Fishooks12 wrote: »

In the same game Barnes(unable to admit he's wrong), commented on the great play of SOB for winning a ball on the deck, understandable as SOB had been involved in the previous ruck but he then went on to analysis the ruck, which clearly showed a number 2 on the back of Strauss yet he kept with the line of "great play by Sean O'Brien" rather than admit his mistake.

It's a bit like the constant comparison (and this is RTE not Sky) between Dennis Leamy and Paddy Butler just because they're both from Cashel. It really grinds my gears!

Yeah I remember that, any time Bulter got near the ball there was some reference to Leamy. Stupid beyond belief.

Risteard · 14-11-2011 10:06PM

Having watched it again, I was a bit harsh on Murphy, he put in some good clearing kicks and made some half-breaks. Though I'm still not all that confident of him under the high ball. One occasion in particular there was a chip in behind in the 22 and he let it bounce, was a tough one to gather though as he was coming from a but away.

phog · 14-11-2011 10:18PM

Risteard wrote: »

Having watched it again, I was a bit harsh on Murphy, he put in some good clearing kicks and made some half-breaks. Though I'm still not all that confident of him under the high ball. One occasion in particular there was a chip in behind in the 22 and he let it bounce, was a tough one to gather though as he was coming from a but away.

Is that the one that went over the deadball line to give us a scrum in their half?

Risteard · 14-11-2011 10:22PM

phog wrote: »

Is that the one that went over the deadball line to give us a scrum in their half?

No it was in the second half, Lamb I think chipped in behind the attack and Murphy was sprinting over to it but kind of hesitated just as he got there and then it was knocked on into Botha's hands and gave a penalty to NH.

shuffol · 15-11-2011 12:23AM

O'Mahoney reminds me very much of Quinlan, dont think he'll ever be a rampaging loose forward like Ferris or O'Brien but a very conspicuous presence on the pitch and clever if a litte hot headed. A great guy to have on your side. Certainly an international in waiting but not sure if he'll become a fixture in the Irish side, we've a preference for carriers in the backrow. Think he'll have a better chance of becoming a regular for Ireland if he ends up at 7 though.

thomond2006 · 15-11-2011 06:10PM

Was at training today. Couldn't make out the backline, they had more than 5 outside backs practising at one time. Deasy, Keatley and Zebo were all involved with the first team from the Northampton game. Leamy wasn't training when I was there.

Wally was tied up to a weight and running, there's probably a term for that! Fla was doing some stretches. Earls not in crutches anymore but wearing a support.

Les Kiss and Gert Smal were there too as was Sinead Kissane from TV3.

Moflojo · 15-11-2011 06:39PM

shuffol wrote: »

O'Mahoney reminds me very much of Quinlan, dont think he'll ever be a rampaging loose forward like Ferris or O'Brien but a very conspicuous presence on the pitch and clever if a litte hot headed. A great guy to have on your side. Certainly an international in waiting but not sure if he'll become a fixture in the Irish side, we've a preference for carriers in the backrow. Think he'll have a better chance of becoming a regular for Ireland if he ends up at 7 though.

Would he have a chance of coming through in the second row at international level?

He still looks a little light for the back row at the moment, but I could see him making it in the second row and acting like a 4th back row in the loose.

He showed some fantastic all round skill on Saturday night, he is a bit hot-headed at the moment but that's not unlike other players that have come through at his age. Remember Sexton just a few years ago?

15-11-2011 06:47PM

light for the back row but built for the second row? Other way round is most if not all of the usual problems...

He's a back rower, he's very young, he'll add bulk and maturity (though hopefully keep some grit) in due time. Leave him at it for a bit!

thomond2006 · 15-11-2011 06:51PM

I know some people wanted Hurley at FB, I forgot to mention that he was defending at fullback a lot during training.

Cpt_Blackbeard · 15-11-2011 06:56PM

thomond2006 wrote: »

Was at training today. Couldn't make out the backline, they had more than 5 outside backs practising at one time. Deasy, Keatley and Zebo were all involved with the first team from the Northampton game. Leamy wasn't training when I was there.

Wally was tied up to a weight and running, there's probably a term for that! Fla was doing some stretches. Earls not in crutches anymore but wearing a support.

Les Kiss and Gert Smal were there too as was Sinead Kissane from TV3.

I saw Leamy walking into UL past Milford Hospice around 9 this morning. He had a bit of a limp which probably kept him out of training.

Moflojo · 15-11-2011 07:04PM

Deleted User wrote: »

light for the back row but built for the second row? Other way round is most if not all of the usual problems...

He's a back rower, he's very young, he'll add bulk and maturity (though hopefully keep some grit) in due time. Leave him at it for a bit!

I've no problem with him there, I think he's a fine backrow forward. I was thinking in terms of him getting into the Ireland team in the near future: There are possibly 4, if not 5, backrowers ahead of him in the Irish pecking order in the Leinster squad alone at the moment, not to mention the other 3 squads. But like you say, give him a bit of time to prove himself and bulk up.

TomsOnTheRoof · 15-11-2011 07:06PM

This can only be good news

http://www.sportsfile.com/id/576302/

ed7890 · 15-11-2011 07:06PM

Wouldn't be worried about O'Mahony with Ireland yet. He's doing the business at club level, which is what we badly need, that's plenty for now.

phog · 15-11-2011 07:11PM

thomond2006 wrote: »

Earls not in crutches anymore but wearing a support.

He tweeted this last night

Good news today wit the knee no Return date yet but it's #soon leg up now double episode of king of queens

Hopefully, he'll be back for the back to back H/C games with the Scarlets.

Amazotheamazing · 15-11-2011 10:30PM

ed7890 wrote: »

Wouldn't be worried about O'Mahony with Ireland yet. He's doing the business at club level, which is what we badly need, that's plenty for now.

Yeah, he's a long way off Irish level, tbf, he doesn't have the power that SOB and Ferris have, though Heaslip's decline is opening up places.

Cpt_Blackbeard · 16-11-2011 12:48AM

TomsOnTheRoof wrote: »

This can only be good news

http://www.sportsfile.com/id/576302/

He's a fúcking machine! Incredible recovery.

EKClarke · 16-11-2011 12:53AM

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Yeah, he's a long way off Irish level, tbf, he doesn't have the power that SOB and Ferris have, though Heaslip's decline is opening up places.

Heaslip played very well last Saturday.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 16-11-2011 12:54AM

EKClarke wrote: »

Heaslip played very well last Saturday.

not according to half the posters here and the Irish media. Sheep the lot of them imo

profitius · 16-11-2011 02:39AM

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Yeah, he's a long way off Irish level, tbf, he doesn't have the power that SOB and Ferris have, though Heaslip's decline is opening up places.

POM's gym stats are supposed to be like David Wallace's. He constantly runs over people and is very hard to stop. Cork Con played him on the wing last season and he was flattening the oppostion. He doesn't look to have the speed of Ferris, SOB or Wallace but he'll make the yards.

That, along with his leadership, aggression, workrate, intelligence and skills means he'd have no problem playing international rugby now. On the negative side he needs to calm down a bit.

Regarding the criticism of Heaslip that people are getting upset by. I'm not criticising Heaslip personally and I certainly don't listen to George Hook!

I'd have POM ahead of Heaslip if I was picking the Irish team for a few reasons. Form and the balance of the Irish backrow being 2.

Heaslip had a poor world cup or at least a quiet world cup. Is that the standard Ireland should be aiming for? Having a culture of undroppable players that are guaranteed their place? We all see where that leads to. Its only in the last 6 months Munster have changed that and now Munster are on an upward curve. People were quick to say Trimble should replace Earls and Sexton should replace ROG and thats fair enough. Heaslips place should also be looked at along with other players on the team. It should not be harder to get off the team than get on it.

Denis Leamy gets alot of bad press but I couldn't help thinking during the world cup that he would have made a bigger impact than Heaslip. I think he came off the bench in one game and made a few runs but was criticised afterwards for not seeing a player outside him. Heaslip would have spotted the runner but he wouldn't have been able to make the run in the first place. He lacks a bit of physicality. Coughlan also outperforms Leamy at 8 playing for Munster in the pro 12 but when the level and size of opposition is stepped up Leamy performs better. On saturday Heaslip played alright but he struggled in the physical stakes against the Montpellier pack, like the did in the world cup. So with Heaslip I reckon its a case of horses for courses. He is a talented player.

I don't expect Kidney to many many if any changes during the 6 nations. Its just my opinion.

Teg Veece · 16-11-2011 04:17AM

profitius wrote: »

POM's gym stats are supposed to be like David Wallace's. He constantly runs over people and is very hard to stop. Cork Con played him on the wing last season and he was flattening the oppostion. He doesn't look to have the speed of Ferris, SOB or Wallace but he'll make the yards.

That, along with his leadership, aggression, workrate, intelligence and skills means he'd have no problem playing international rugby now. On the negative side he needs to calm down a bit.

Regarding the criticism of Heaslip that people are getting upset by. I'm not criticising Heaslip personally and I certainly don't listen to George Hook! I'd have POM ahead of Heaslip if I was picking the Irish team for a few reasons. Form and the balance of the Irish backrow being 2.

Heaslip had a poor world cup or at least a quiet world cup. Is that the standard Ireland should be aiming for? Having a culture of undroppable players that are guaranteed their place? We all see where that leads to. Its only in the last 6 months Munster have changed that and now Munster are on an upward curve. People were quick to say Trimble should replace Earls and Sexton should replace ROG and thats fair enough. Heaslips place should also be looked at along with other players on the team. It should not be harder to get off the team than get on it.

Denis Leamy gets alot of bad press but I couldn't help thinking during the world cup that he would have made a bigger impact than Heaslip. I think he came off the bench in one game and made a few runs but was criticised afterwards for not seeing a player outside him. Heaslip would have spotted the runner but he wouldn't have been able to make the run in the first place. He lacks a bit of physicality. Coughlan also outperforms Leamy at 8 playing for Munster in the pro 12 but when the level and size of opposition is stepped up Leamy performs better. On saturday Heaslip played alright but he struggled in the physical stakes against the Montpellier pack, like the did in the world cup. So with Heaslip I reckon its a case of horses for courses. He is a talented player.

I don't expect Kidney to many many if any changes during the 6 nations. Its just my opinion.

I agree with you that there needs to be a change at 8. Heaslip is out of form and has been below par at international level for quite awhile now. But surely the answer is to switch SOB to number 8 and focus on someone who can fill the number 7 jersey.
In the RWC, the backrow was very unbalanced without a proper openside flanker. If Pocock was playing for Australia, we would have been beaten. The first team we played with an international standard 7 was Wales and we know what happened there.

Podge_irl · 16-11-2011 04:25AM

Teg Veece wrote: »

In the RWC, the backrow was very unbalanced without a proper openside flanker. If Pocock was playing for Australia, we would have been beaten. The first team we played with an international standard 7 was Wales and we know what happened there.

We had twice as much possession as them and were held up over the line twice?

I think people are massively overstating the effect of Warburton. Ireland had huge problems in midfield in that game too.

POM isn't exactly a classic 7 anyway. Will be interesting to see if he ends up there long term at Munster. Being behind Ronan for the position wouldn't say much for him there.

Teg Veece · 16-11-2011 04:56AM

Podge_irl wrote: »

POM isn't exactly a classic 7 anyway. Will be interesting to see if he ends up there long term at Munster. Being behind Ronan for the position wouldn't say much for him there.

I'm not suggesting the POM plays 7. At the moment, the Irish backrow is unbalanced and this will be exposed against the better teams. O'Brien definitely isn't the answer at 7 and it's unfair to play him there. Move him to 8 where he'd be more effect and concentrate on finding someone to fill the number 7 spot rather than the number 8.

EKClarke · 16-11-2011 05:39AM

Teg Veece wrote: »

I agree with you that there needs to be a change at 8. Heaslip is out of form and has been below par at international level for quite awhile now. But surely the answer is to switch SOB to number 8 and focus on someone who can fill the number 7 jersey.
In the RWC, the backrow was very unbalanced without a proper openside flanker. If Pocock was playing for Australia, we would have been beaten. The first team we played with an international standard 7 was Wales and we know what happened there.

Sean O' Brien isn't an 8 yet, Heaslip is the best 8 in the British Isles. Just because he doesn't go on big bullocking runs or appears to be very quiet in a game doesn't mean he's lost form. He does a lot more around the park. If you look at the Leinster game last Saturday he created a break for Sexton while SOB was struggling to make ground most of the day. An 8 is meant to do more than run over people and Heaslip is a very complete rugby player. His work rate at the world cup was huge, while Ferris and SOB were carrying balls he was doing the dirty work. Take a look at the Montpellier match, he nearly always does something constructive with ball in hand.

Teg Veece · 16-11-2011 06:13AM

EKClarke wrote: »

Sean O' Brien isn't an 8 yet.

O'Brien isn't an 8 yet so the solution is to play him in other positions until he becomes an 8?

If we're looking at developing a well-balanced international team, the Irish backrow needs a proper opensider - especially now that we'll be missing O'Driscoll.
The options are to drop O'Brien or to drop either Heaslip or Ferris and move O'Brien into their position.

EKClarke · 16-11-2011 06:33AM

Teg Veece wrote: »

O'Brien isn't an 8 yet so the solution is to play him in other positions until he becomes an 8?

If we're looking at developing a well-balanced international team, the Irish backrow needs a proper opensider - especially now that we'll be missing O'Driscoll.
The options are to drop O'Brien or to drop either Heaslip or Ferris and move O'Brien into their position.

There not the options, you can't make a sweeping statement like that and expect me to believe its rational. Ferris isn't going to be dropped, nor is SOB. You've been listening a bit too much to George Hook and how, 'We wouldn't have been beaten if we played a real open side against Wales'. Heaslip was doing most of the dirty work at the world cup while SOB and Ferris were carrying ball. I do think other players should get a shot but Heaslip can't be dropped indefinitely, he's too good. SOB doesn't have to play 8 just to incorporate POM, POM has to earn his place and be given a chance if his form continues, but I highly doubt that that will be at the expense of Heaslip.

16-11-2011 07:25AM

the lack of perspective shown is absolutely insane to me.

Perhaps when people read back through their posts after waking up this morning they'll understand why people say things like "the Munster hype Machine".

Just to quantify a few things. Craig Gilroy has scored 10 tries in 20 games for Ulster. If I was to suggest for a moment that he might start a 6N game ahead of Tommy Bowe, I imagine that most would be of this opinion "Are you having a laugh, he's a kid essentially, he's completely untested defensively."

He's had more HEC experience than O'Mahony, and is arguably in far better form than that of the "visibly declining" Tommy Bowe.

Perspective people. Perspective. I hate to see reasonable posters turn to the darkside, all for this horrific need to idolise players beyond belief, way before they've proven anything. It's like the Life of Brian, swapping from one Messiah to the next as soon as someone does anything that's not average.

totallegend · 16-11-2011 07:48AM

OMFG The guy has played ONE heineken cup game, can we get back to reality please?

Just for the record, Chris Henry was the standout Irish back row forward at the weekend.

Munster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

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