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Can you run as fast as a race walker?

2

Comments

  • #32
    TheRoadRunner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,983 ✭✭✭TheRoadRunner


    04072511 wrote: »
    Judging by his username I would doubt that.:)

    he likes sea shells


  • #33
    Dodge
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,519 ✭✭✭✭Dodge


    TheRoadRunner wrote: »
    And so the crusade continues.

    its not a crusade if people are just answering points raised.


  • #34
    Pisco Sour
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,029 ✭✭✭Pisco Sour


    RayCun wrote: »
    So you're saying race walking is like soccer, rugby, GAA - sports you don't like - and not like the rest of athletics - the thing you do like?
    But we should all like it just as much anyway?
    :pac:

    :rolleyes::confused:

    What on earth are you talking about!?!?

    I'm a big rugby fan, and love international football. How on earth did you come to the assumption that I dislike them? I'm most amazed.

    I'm just using those sports as a way of proving a point that there is just as much grey areas in those sports as there is in Race Walking. I picked those sports as no doubt most people who post on this forum follow those sports (yet dont follow athletics:rolleyes:, but that's a different discussion entirely).


  • #35
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    To eliminate the need for slow mo camera shots to show them all cheating, make them run walk in lanes. Cover the lanes in plasticine, like for the long jump take off board, anyone that does not have a continuous sequence of foot prints is out.


  • #36
    Pisco Sour
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,029 ✭✭✭Pisco Sour


    shels4ever wrote: »
    Totally different to rugby/football if a team decided that they would pass the ball fwd for the full game as they will get away with it most of the time, then they would do that.

    You clearly didnt watch The All Blacks V Pumas so. Richie McCaw got away with murder on about half a dozen occasions, coming in from the side. He knows how to play the ref. He's smart. But it's still cheating.

    Rugby is a sport where the result quite often in a close game comes down to how a referee interprets something, or whether the ref did or did not see something, and as there are 30 people on the pitch, all in various different roles (some hidden in the scrum, ruck, maul) it is pretty much impossible to see everything that happens. Hence we have seen numerous flawed results.

    Same with soccer. Thierry Henry comes to mind.

    I don't see how this is any different to a race walker cheating very subtly in a race.

    Not saying that I agree they should be cheating, or that they deliberately cheat, but if you are going to raise the point about one sport then you need to look at the identical flaws of other sports (even if they are ones you like).


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  • #37
    RayCun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    Sorry, it's just GAA you dislike :)

    My point is, you're not comparing race-walking to other athletics events. You can't say that in the long jump, or the 5000 metres, or the javelin, we have to assume that the rule-breaking is more or less even and the referees couldn't be expected to spot it. Nor could you say that in those events there are arbitrary rules that are designed to stop people from jumping further, running faster, or throwing further than they could.
    So it makes perfect sense for people to say that they're fans of athletics in general, but not race-walking, because it's not like the other events.


  • #38
    shels4ever
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,598 ✭✭✭shels4ever


    04072511 wrote: »
    You clearly didnt watch The All Blacks V Pumas so. Richie McCaw got away with murder on about half a dozen occasions, coming in from the side. He knows how to play the ref. He's smart. But it's still cheating.

    Rugby is a sport where the result quite often in a close game comes down to how a referee interprets something, or whether the ref did or did not see something, and as there are 30 people on the pitch, all in various different roles (some hidden in the scrum, ruck, maul) it is pretty much impossible to see everything that happens. Hence we have seen numerous flawed results.

    Same with soccer. Thierry Henry comes to mind.

    I don't see how this is any different to a race walker cheating very subtly in a race.

    Not saying that I agree they should be cheating, or that they deliberately cheat, but if you are going to raise the point about one sport then you need to look at the identical flaws of other sports (even if they are ones you like).

    Your comparing race walking with other sports, how about compare to to any event on field and track, Great thing about athletics is that in most cases the best person wins, rules are black and while in almost all events and enforced.


  • #39
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    04072511 wrote: »
    :rolleyes::confused:

    What on earth are you talking about!?!?

    I'm a big rugby fan, and love international football. How on earth did you come to the assumption that I dislike them? I'm most amazed.

    I'm just using those sports as a way of proving a point that there is just as much grey areas in those sports as there is in Race Walking. I picked those sports as no doubt most people who post on this forum follow those sports (yet dont follow athletics:rolleyes:, but that's a different discussion entirely).

    If someone was to blatantly pick up the ball in soccer and decide to run with it in order to get it through the opposing teams goal then it would either be spotted, or they would call it a new sport, like rugby maybe. :D (Not a true story)

    Race walking is all about trying not to do something, that being run. They are all running though.

    Not everyone in football is breaking the rules, and there is a whole other team watching and waiting to complain if they do spot you do something you shouldn't.


  • #40
    Pisco Sour
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,029 ✭✭✭Pisco Sour


    RayCun wrote: »
    Sorry, it's just GAA you dislike :)

    My point is, you're not comparing race-walking to other athletics events. You can't say that in the long jump, or the 5000 metres, or the javelin, we have to assume that the rule-breaking is more or less even and the referees couldn't be expected to spot it. Nor could you say that in those events there are arbitrary rules that are designed to stop people from jumping further, running faster, or throwing further than they could.
    So it makes perfect sense for people to say that they're fans of athletics in general, but not race-walking, because it's not like the other events.

    Yes that would all be perfectly understandable. But then if such a person went onto say that they loved athletics, hated the race walk for the above reason, but loved Rugby, Boxing, Gymnastics, Diving, or whatever other sport has a result that is largely determined by a 3rd party, then that person would be contradicting themselves.


  • #41
    RayCun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    No - you could love athletics for the simplicity of the challenge - one athlete, one run (/throw/jump), no questions - and like other sports for other reasons. The element of direct competition in boxing, the tactical interplay of football, whatever - all of that could compensate for the fact that the rules are complicated and impossible to apply perfectly.


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  • #42
    TheRoadRunner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,983 ✭✭✭TheRoadRunner


    Dodge wrote: »
    its not a crusade if people are just answering points raised.

    It's a crusade as 04072511 will keep banging on about the virtues of race walking even though the majority of us don't give a **** about it. As I said I don't see the point of it. That's my opinion and his crusade won't change it.


  • #43
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    04072511 wrote: »
    Yes that would all be perfectly understandable. But then if such a person went onto say that they loved athletics, hated the race walk for the above reason, but loved Rugby, Boxing, Gymnastics, Diving, or whatever other sport has a result that is largely determined by a 3rd party, then that person would be contradicting themselves.

    I'm struggling to think of a daft sport to compare it to, but racewalking is really an anti sport. It's trying to do something (go fast), but do it badly and not get caught doing it properly (ie running).

    It is a who can be the fastest slow runner race.

    Boxing, but you can't actually hit the other guy.
    Football, but you can't actually score a goal.
    Shooting, but you have to miss the target.
    Running, but you can't actually run.


  • #44
    Dodge
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,519 ✭✭✭✭Dodge


    TheRoadRunner wrote: »
    It's a crusade as 04072511 will keep banging on about the virtues of race walking even though the majority of us don't give a **** about it. As I said I don't see the point of it. That's my opinion and his crusade won't change it.

    You're posting an awful lot for someone who doesn't give a **** about it...
    shels4ever wrote:
    Great thing about athletics is that in most cases the best person wins
    This is also true for the walk, as serial gold medalists show


  • #45
    BobMac104
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭BobMac104


    Ya i think the fact that the main rule that defines race walking (walk not run) is broken consistently is what undermines the effort a bit.


  • #46
    Pisco Sour
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,029 ✭✭✭Pisco Sour


    Dodge wrote: »
    This is also true for the walk, as serial gold medalists show

    Yep, there's some girl from Russia called Olga Kaniskina. She's pretty decent alright! :)

    Can't remember the last time she has lost in a major championship to be honest. She's as much of a banker in her event as Rudisha currently is in the 800.


  • #47
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    04072511 wrote: »
    Yep, there's some girl from Russia called Olga Kaniskina. She's pretty decent alright! :)

    Can't remember the last time she has lost in a major championship to be honest. She's as much of a banker in her event as Rudisha currently is in the 800.

    Got a video of her feet during a walk?


  • #48
    ss43
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 384 ✭✭ss43


    robinph wrote: »
    I'm struggling to think of a daft sport to compare it to, but racewalking is really an anti sport. It's trying to do something (go fast), but do it badly and not get caught doing it properly (ie running).

    It is a who can be the fastest slow runner race.

    Boxing, but you can't actually hit the other guy.
    Football, but you can't actually score a goal.
    Shooting, but you have to miss the target.
    Running, but you can't actually run.

    Shooting but instead of using the gun, you carry the bullet to the target. If the ref's not looking, you shoot.
    BobMac104 wrote: »
    Ya i think the fact that the main rule that defines race walking (walk not run) is broken consistently is what undermines the effort a bit.

    Agreed.

    Is it no big deal that loads of athletes took EPO in the 90s cos it was effectively impossible to police at the time.


  • #49
    RayCun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    robinph wrote: »
    Boxing, but you can't actually hit the other guy.
    Football, but you can't actually score a goal.
    Shooting, but you have to miss the target.
    Running, but you can't actually run.

    Boxing, but you're only allowed hit with your elbows!
    Football, but you all have to be blindfolded! (although see)
    Shooting, but you have to pull the trigger with your thumb!

    Except anyone breaking those rules would be spotted immediately.


  • #50
    shels4ever
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,598 ✭✭✭shels4ever


    Dodge wrote: »
    You're posting an awful lot for someone who doesn't give a **** about it...


    This is also true for the walk, as serial gold medalists show

    I'm not saying that the winners were not the best, but just the event its almost impossible to enforce the rules that make up the event. 50k of walking and i'm almost sure you would find cases that the winner should have been carded more often. Not saying that they should have been DQ but a card changes the race, and someone in second gets a second card, the race is basically over. The nature of the event it has to be equal across all runners ;) . Thats my main gripe with the event.


  • #51
    Dodge
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,519 ✭✭✭✭Dodge


    robinph wrote: »
    I'm struggling to think of a daft sport to compare it to, but racewalking is really an anti sport. It's trying to do something (go fast), but do it badly and not get caught doing it properly (ie running).

    Its not. its walking. Seperate to running.

    Your analogy would be "Why swim the breaststroke, when freestyle gets you there quicker?"

    Its not anti-sport, its just different.


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  • #52
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    Dodge wrote: »
    Its not. its walking. Seperate to running.

    Your analogy would be "Why swim the breaststroke, when freestyle gets you there quicker?"

    Its not anti-sport, its just different.

    Actually forgot about the daft number of events in swimming. But the swimming strokes are at least obviously different. If there was a running backwards race then that would be equivalent to the swims.

    Swimmings equivalent to race walking would be doing freestyle, but no kicking allowed, and the judges promise not to actually look at your feet to see if they are moving.


  • #53
    drquirky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,866 ✭✭✭drquirky


    TBH-

    I think the idea of "fast walking" is what gets me- if you want to go fast shouldn't you use the best available way to do that? An idea for race walking that to me would make more sense would be to test endurance i.e. hold a race that the walkers go until they drop and see who gets the farthest. That to me would be interesting and would take the cheating element out of it....


  • #54
    Pisco Sour
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,029 ✭✭✭Pisco Sour


    robinph wrote: »
    Actually forgot about the daft number of events in swimming. But the swimming strokes are at least obviously different. If there was a running backwards race then that would be equivalent to the swims.

    Swimmings equivalent to race walking would be doing freestyle, but no kicking allowed, and the judges promise not to actually look at your feet to see if they are moving.

    And race walking doesn't look obviously different to say marathon running? :confused:


  • #55
    Dodge
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,519 ✭✭✭✭Dodge


    robinph wrote: »
    Actually forgot about the daft number of events in swimming. But the swimming strokes are at least obviously different. If there was a running backwards race then that would be equivalent to the swims.

    Swimmings equivalent to race walking would be doing freestyle, but no kicking allowed, and the judges promise not to actually look at your feet to see if they are moving.
    Your stretching now... The enalogy is fine. In swimming there's 4 different ways of doing 100m. The only difference is technique (Some have limitations on kicks, seeing as you brought it up)

    In athletics, some events run, and 2 walk. Can't see why its a big enough deal for anyone to actively dislike it


  • #56
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    04072511 wrote: »
    And race walking doesn't look obviously different to say marathon running? :confused:

    No, they are running badly whilst trying to look like they are walking fast.


  • #57
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    Dodge wrote: »
    Your stretching now... The enalogy is fine. In swimming there's 4 different ways of doing 100m. The only difference is technique (Some have limitations on kicks, seeing as you brought it up)

    In athletics, some events run, and 2 walk. Can't see why its a big enough deal for anyone to actively dislike it

    The difference between walking and running is that in one you have to keep at least one foot in contact with the ground at all times.

    There is a much bigger difference between freestyle swimming, breaststroke, butterfly and back stroke. Their out of water equivalents would be running, running with your arms doing a windmill action, crawling on all fours and running backwards.


  • #58
    TheRoadRunner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,983 ✭✭✭TheRoadRunner


    Dodge wrote: »
    You're posting an awful lot for someone who doesn't give a **** about it...

    It's no longer about the topic rather the person who's posting


  • #59
    BobMac104
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭BobMac104


    I have no problem with race walking as a sport i think it has every right to stand next to all the other events. My gripe is that they are clearly not walking. maybe technology could solve this issue pressure sensors on each foot maybe. It would eliminate the images seen at the world championships


  • #60
    Dodge
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,519 ✭✭✭✭Dodge


    TheRoadRunner wrote: »
    It's no longer about the topic rather the person who's posting

    :rolleyes: So a crusade then... ;)


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  • #61
    TheRoadRunner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,983 ✭✭✭TheRoadRunner


    Dodge wrote: »
    :rolleyes: So a crusade then... ;)

    of sorts


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