Can you run as fast as a race walker?

RoyMcC

The 20kW WR is 1:17 and bits which, at an even pace, is 38:30 for a 10k.

Make it easier - Olive Loughnane's NR for the 10kW is 43.22.

Makes my hard-fought running PBs look pretty sick

TFBubendorfer

I remember reading an interview with a race walker, it may have been Olive Loughnane, not sure, and how much he/she enjoys overtaking a runner.

Pherekydes

You cannot walk at sub six minute mile pace.

Pisco Sour

The world record for 50k is 3:34. Truly truly sick. These guys can walk 50k faster than about 90% of people who RUN 42.2k, yet these are the people (the general public) who show the event such little respect and belittle it.

Incredible athletes they are.

BobMac104

do they suffer from hip injurys more? looks very tough on that area.

TheRoadRunner

04072511 wrote: »

The world record for 50k is 3:34. Truly truly sick. These guys can walk 50k faster than about 90% of people who RUN 42.2k, yet these are the people (the general public) who show the event such little respect and belittle it.

Incredible athletes they are.

Yes they are incredible athletes, fair lay to them, they train incredibly hard and deserve all plaudits they get.

However, you'll never change peoples opinions on particular events and if the general public think it's a silly event than no crusade will change their minds. I personally don't have any interest in race walking myself. I just don't see the point of it.

Rantan

don't see the atraction myself...when were kids there were a couple of race walkers who used pass our house regulary - we used to stand at the gate laughing at them shouting " wiggly bottoms, wiggly bottoms!!"...it was just a thing we did as kids...mortified now when I think of it..some of the stats they can produce are pretty incredible though..I put race walking and the triple jump in the same bag...kind of mad to look at but incredibly fussy and specialised - takes a secial type to succeed at them I guess?

AEDIC

Had the misfortune of running in a 5k event that Rob Heffernan was using as a training/speed workout earlier this year.... I am ashamed to say I would have needed to have been on a bike to have kept up with him... and the guy barely broke sweat.

it was an amazing sight though just watching him power through the field.... gained my full respect for the sport after seeing that.

robinph

Did anyone else see the HD slow mo pictures of the race walk events in Dageu?

Wasn't a whole lot of walking going on by anyone in the field from what I saw. Still impressive to be moving at that speed with a foot very nearly in contact with the ground at all times, but it's not really walking.

shels4ever

robinph wrote: »

Did anyone else see the HD slow mo pictures of the race walk events in Dageu?

Wasn't a whole lot of walking going on by anyone in the field from what I saw. Still impressive to be moving at that speed with a foot very nearly in contact with the ground at all times, but it's not really walking.

Yep it was funny, some event could have sene the top 6 all getting red cards. So the question should be do walkers really walk.

Pherekydes

shels4ever wrote: »

So the question should be do walkers really walk.

Nope. They just cheat very carefully.

Dodge

Pherekydes wrote: »

Nope. They just cheat very carefully.

...and very quickly

YFlyer

RoyMcC wrote: »

The 20kW WR is 1:17 and bits which, at an even pace, is 38:30 for a 10k.

Make it easier - Olive Loughnane's NR for the 10kW is 43.22.

Makes my hard-fought running PBs look pretty sick

Sick as in amazing?

drquirky

I hate to be mean about this but I absolutely can't stand race walking and don't really feel that it has a place in athletics competitions.... that being said I respect the amount of training and aerobic ability it takes for walkers at the highest level...

Dodge

drquirky wrote: »

I hate to be mean about this but I absolutely can't stand race walking and don't really feel that it has a place in athletics competitions....

Can I ask why?

thirstywork2

Having spent soemtime around some of the worlds top racewalkers I found they actually train harder than most athletes I know in any sport.

Problem is the races aren't attractive to the publi as they are too long and usually put on as first event in major championships which means 7am start or earlier.

Alot of people will say ''why walk when you can run''
I know the russian winner of the Dublin marathon 2-3 years ago was a former race walker.

Pisco Sour

thirstywork2 wrote: »

Problem is the races aren't attractive to the publi as they are too long and usually put on as first event in major championships which means 7am start or earlier.

The Women's 20k walk in Berlin 2009 was actually on at around noon if I recall correctly. The crowds were huge for it. Much larger than any other walk event I've seen on TV. Great for spectators, can't have been much fun for the athletes though competing at that time of day when the temperatures were in the mid 30's. Didnt stop Olive though

I remember being at a wedding the night Gilly was running in the world final, and I was talking to my uncle about Derval's great performance, and he was praising her. Then I brought up Olive, and he dismissed her immediately saying "that's not a sport.... walking"!

Pisco Sour

Rob Heffernan's training...


Can you give us an insight into the training schedule of a racewalker? What would an average week of training be like, specifically in terms of key sessions and total mileage?
Rob: Monday: AM 12km, PM 8km gym
Tuesday: AM 15km, PM 4km plus 100/200/300/200/100 x 2
Wednesday: AM 20km at 10 easy/ 10 hard, PM 6km
Thursday: AM 12km, PM 6km gym
Friday: AM 15km with last 5km at 100 fast 400 easy, PM 6-8km
Saturday: AM 8x2km/500m recovery, PM 6-8km
Sunday: AM 12km

This would be a sample of 1 week but every week is different through out the year depending on the phase of training. This training would be complemented by 4-5 session of sports massage and physio if needed.

What are your favourite and least favourite training sessions?
Rob: A specific 20km lactate session: 400m (89 seconds), recovery 200m (60 seconds), 600m (2m17), recovery 200m (60 seconds) x 12. It’s a killer. My favourite session is sleeping.

Pisco Sour

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

Yes they are incredible athletes, fair lay to them, they train incredibly hard and deserve all plaudits they get.

However, you'll never change peoples opinions on particular events and if the general public think it's a silly event than no crusade will change their minds. I personally don't have any interest in race walking myself. I just don't see the point of it.

I don't understand this bit. Fair enough you're not interested in it, but questioning the point of a sporting event? Really?

You could question the point of anything. What is the point of running around a field chasing after an egg-shaped ball? What is the point of hitting a small round ball over a net?

You may say "why walk when you can run", but I'm sure there are many people out there who don't see the point of running 26.2 miles, when you can hop on a bike or into a car and get there quicker!

RayCun

Because it's an artificial limitation. Most athletics events are fairly simple when you get down to it - take this stick and throw it as far as you can, run from here to there as fast as you can, jump as high as you can (and here, you can use this pole!), but race walking isn't like that.

It would take a lot of hard work, determination, and natural ability to become the world "running with one arm tied behind your back" record holder, and you'd have to respect the training they put in, but...

robinph

^ Exactly. It doesn't quite fit with the "faster, higher, stronger".

It's a "go as fast as you can, but not too fast as we'll then have to disqualify you" race.

thirstywork2

04072511 wrote: »

The Women's 20k walk in Berlin 2009 was actually on at around noon if I recall correctly. The crowds were huge for it. Much larger than any other walk event I've seen on TV. Great for spectators, can't have been much fun for the athletes though competing at that time of day when the temperatures were in the mid 30's. Didnt stop Olive though

I remember being at a wedding the night Gilly was running in the world final, and I was talking to my uncle about Derval's great performance, and he was praising her. Then I brought up Olive, and he dismissed her immediately saying "that's not a sport.... walking"!

you sure it wasn't walking
My point about the early starts is just that they put it on when spectators are at thir lowest.Only reason in Berlinw as it was over small loops if I remeber correctly so you could get a great view of what was happening.If they put the walk in the middle of a programme what would happen?

RoyMcC

thirstywork2 wrote: »

If they put the walk in the middle of a programme what would happen?

Loved the last Nat Champs that I was at in Santry. The last bloke was laps behind the rest but insisted on finishing (quite rightly) whilst the officials were hopping up and down waiting to start another race as the schedule slipped back

Same race one young lad who'd given everything staggered off the course with a couple of laps to go. A minute or so later he obviously felt a bit better and sidled back onto the track and continued to the end :pac:

Typically these days E.g. at Irish Masters and the County Champs in England, all the track walks are consolidated into one mass race in an hour or so set aside for the purpose.

TheRoadRunner

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

However, you'll never change peoples opinions on particular events and if the general public think it's a silly event than no crusade will change their minds.

04072511 wrote: »

I don't understand this bit. Fair enough you're not interested in it, but questioning the point of a sporting event? Really?

You could question the point of anything. What is the point of running around a field chasing after an egg-shaped ball? What is the point of hitting a small round ball over a net?

You may say "why walk when you can run", but I'm sure there are many people out there who don't see the point of running 26.2 miles, when you can hop on a bike or into a car and get there quicker!

And so the crusade begins!

You're probably not going to change the general publics' mind and I guarantee you won't change my mine. I'm allowed question the point of an event. In athletics the walk is the one event I have zero interest in. If you enjoy it fair fcuks to you, go and watch it with the other athletics super fans.

Dodge

RayCun wrote: »

Because it's an artificial limitation. Most athletics events are fairly simple when you get down to it - take this stick and throw it as far as you can, run from here to there as fast as you can, jump as high as you can (and here, you can use this pole!), but race walking isn't like that.

In my opinion, its more about technique, than simply being fast. Its the technical aspect that make it a sport. In much the same way as the strongest guy won't always win the hammer or the fastest guy won't win the long jump, just being a quick walker isn't enough

Oh and given what we know about world athletics, actually think Athletics Ireland should be focussing funding on events where we can medal on the world level, such as walking

shels4ever

Dodge wrote: »

In my opinion, its more about technique, than simply being fast. Its the technical aspect that make it a sport. In much the same way as the strongest guy won't always win the hammer or the fastest guy won't win the long jump, just being a quick walker isn't enough

Oh and given what we know about world athletics, actually think Athletics Ireland should be focussing funding on events where we can medal on the world level, such as walking

Yes but in most races it comes down to who gets caught for cheating the least during a race. I would expect if you had a camera on every walker for the full race you would see far more then 3 yellow cards. Even the best technical walkers lift. It's my whole problem with the event.
Hammer, lj, shot its all black and white when you have broken or crossed the line, the walk comes down to the judges in in the right place at the right time, nobody can see every step of a 50k walk for 50 people.

Pisco Sour

shels4ever wrote: »

Hammer, lj, shot its all black and white when you have broken or crossed the line, the walk comes down to the judges in in the right place at the right time, nobody can see every step of a 50k walk for 50 people.

What's your thoughts on rugby? Nobody can follow 30 people at once to make sure they are obeying the rules of the game. Results are destermined quite often by the referee being in the right place at the right time. Same with soccer.

Race walking, like many sporting events has a set of rules, and has officials in place to enforce the rules. By saying that race walking is flawed, then you'd have to say the same about Rugby, Soccer etc etc as there are countless times during a match when players get away with blatent cheating and trying to deceive the officials.

TheRoadRunner

04072511 wrote: »

What's your thoughts on rugby? Nobody can follow 30 people at once to make sure they are obeying the rules of the game. Results are destermined quite often by the referee being in the right place at the right time. Same with soccer.

Race walking, like many sporting events has a set of rules, and has officials in place to enforce the rules. By saying that race walking is flawed, then you'd have to say the same about Rugby, Soccer etc etc as there are countless times during a match when players get away with blatent cheating and trying to deceive the officials.

yeah but he didn't sing the virtues of either of the ball games you mentioned. Maybe he shares your opinions. And so the crusade continues.

Pisco Sour

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

yeah but he didn't sing the virtues of either of the ball games you mentioned. Maybe he shares your opinions. And so the crusade continues.

Judging by his username I would doubt that.:)

RayCun

04072511 wrote: »

What's your thoughts on rugby? Nobody can follow 30 people at once to make sure they are obeying the rules of the game. Results are destermined quite often by the referee being in the right place at the right time. Same with soccer.

So you're saying race walking is like soccer, rugby, GAA - sports you don't like - and not like the rest of athletics - the thing you do like?
But we should all like it just as much anyway?
:pac:

shels4ever

04072511 wrote: »

What's your thoughts on rugby? Nobody can follow 30 people at once to make sure they are obeying the rules of the game. Results are destermined quite often by the referee being in the right place at the right time. Same with soccer.

Race walking, like many sporting events has a set of rules, and has officials in place to enforce the rules. By saying that race walking is flawed, then you'd have to say the same about Rugby, Soccer etc etc as there are countless times during a match when players get away with blatent cheating and trying to deceive the officials.

Yes but the pure levels of lifting showing at the worlds this summer was mental, at one point they showed the lead group basically all running. Not a single warning was given.
Totally different to rugby/football if a team decided that they would pass the ball fwd for the full game as they will get away with it most of the time, then they would do that.
Race walking is a techincal event , So if they can't enforce the rules whats the point having the event.

Also doping is just breaking a rule also, so same logic should apply

TheRoadRunner

04072511 wrote: »

Judging by his username I would doubt that.:)

he likes sea shells

Dodge

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

And so the crusade continues.

its not a crusade if people are just answering points raised.

Pisco Sour

RayCun wrote: »

So you're saying race walking is like soccer, rugby, GAA - sports you don't like - and not like the rest of athletics - the thing you do like?
But we should all like it just as much anyway?
:pac:

:rolleyes:

What on earth are you talking about!?!?

I'm a big rugby fan, and love international football. How on earth did you come to the assumption that I dislike them? I'm most amazed.

I'm just using those sports as a way of proving a point that there is just as much grey areas in those sports as there is in Race Walking. I picked those sports as no doubt most people who post on this forum follow those sports (yet dont follow athletics:rolleyes:, but that's a different discussion entirely).

robinph

To eliminate the need for slow mo camera shots to show them all cheating, make them run walk in lanes. Cover the lanes in plasticine, like for the long jump take off board, anyone that does not have a continuous sequence of foot prints is out.

Pisco Sour

shels4ever wrote: »

Totally different to rugby/football if a team decided that they would pass the ball fwd for the full game as they will get away with it most of the time, then they would do that.

You clearly didnt watch The All Blacks V Pumas so. Richie McCaw got away with murder on about half a dozen occasions, coming in from the side. He knows how to play the ref. He's smart. But it's still cheating.

Rugby is a sport where the result quite often in a close game comes down to how a referee interprets something, or whether the ref did or did not see something, and as there are 30 people on the pitch, all in various different roles (some hidden in the scrum, ruck, maul) it is pretty much impossible to see everything that happens. Hence we have seen numerous flawed results.

Same with soccer. Thierry Henry comes to mind.

I don't see how this is any different to a race walker cheating very subtly in a race.

Not saying that I agree they should be cheating, or that they deliberately cheat, but if you are going to raise the point about one sport then you need to look at the identical flaws of other sports (even if they are ones you like).

RayCun

Sorry, it's just GAA you dislike

My point is, you're not comparing race-walking to other athletics events. You can't say that in the long jump, or the 5000 metres, or the javelin, we have to assume that the rule-breaking is more or less even and the referees couldn't be expected to spot it. Nor could you say that in those events there are arbitrary rules that are designed to stop people from jumping further, running faster, or throwing further than they could.
So it makes perfect sense for people to say that they're fans of athletics in general, but not race-walking, because it's not like the other events.

shels4ever

04072511 wrote: »

You clearly didnt watch The All Blacks V Pumas so. Richie McCaw got away with murder on about half a dozen occasions, coming in from the side. He knows how to play the ref. He's smart. But it's still cheating.

Rugby is a sport where the result quite often in a close game comes down to how a referee interprets something, or whether the ref did or did not see something, and as there are 30 people on the pitch, all in various different roles (some hidden in the scrum, ruck, maul) it is pretty much impossible to see everything that happens. Hence we have seen numerous flawed results.

Same with soccer. Thierry Henry comes to mind.

I don't see how this is any different to a race walker cheating very subtly in a race.

Not saying that I agree they should be cheating, or that they deliberately cheat, but if you are going to raise the point about one sport then you need to look at the identical flaws of other sports (even if they are ones you like).

Your comparing race walking with other sports, how about compare to to any event on field and track, Great thing about athletics is that in most cases the best person wins, rules are black and while in almost all events and enforced.

robinph

04072511 wrote: »

:rolleyes:

What on earth are you talking about!?!?

I'm a big rugby fan, and love international football. How on earth did you come to the assumption that I dislike them? I'm most amazed.

I'm just using those sports as a way of proving a point that there is just as much grey areas in those sports as there is in Race Walking. I picked those sports as no doubt most people who post on this forum follow those sports (yet dont follow athletics:rolleyes:, but that's a different discussion entirely).

If someone was to blatantly pick up the ball in soccer and decide to run with it in order to get it through the opposing teams goal then it would either be spotted, or they would call it a new sport, like rugby maybe. (Not a true story)

Race walking is all about trying not to do something, that being run. They are all running though.

Not everyone in football is breaking the rules, and there is a whole other team watching and waiting to complain if they do spot you do something you shouldn't.

Pisco Sour

RayCun wrote: »

Sorry, it's just GAA you dislike

My point is, you're not comparing race-walking to other athletics events. You can't say that in the long jump, or the 5000 metres, or the javelin, we have to assume that the rule-breaking is more or less even and the referees couldn't be expected to spot it. Nor could you say that in those events there are arbitrary rules that are designed to stop people from jumping further, running faster, or throwing further than they could.
So it makes perfect sense for people to say that they're fans of athletics in general, but not race-walking, because it's not like the other events.

Yes that would all be perfectly understandable. But then if such a person went onto say that they loved athletics, hated the race walk for the above reason, but loved Rugby, Boxing, Gymnastics, Diving, or whatever other sport has a result that is largely determined by a 3rd party, then that person would be contradicting themselves.

RayCun

No - you could love athletics for the simplicity of the challenge - one athlete, one run (/throw/jump), no questions - and like other sports for other reasons. The element of direct competition in boxing, the tactical interplay of football, whatever - all of that could compensate for the fact that the rules are complicated and impossible to apply perfectly.

TheRoadRunner

Dodge wrote: »

its not a crusade if people are just answering points raised.

It's a crusade as 04072511 will keep banging on about the virtues of race walking even though the majority of us don't give a **** about it. As I said I don't see the point of it. That's my opinion and his crusade won't change it.

robinph

04072511 wrote: »

Yes that would all be perfectly understandable. But then if such a person went onto say that they loved athletics, hated the race walk for the above reason, but loved Rugby, Boxing, Gymnastics, Diving, or whatever other sport has a result that is largely determined by a 3rd party, then that person would be contradicting themselves.

I'm struggling to think of a daft sport to compare it to, but racewalking is really an anti sport. It's trying to do something (go fast), but do it badly and not get caught doing it properly (ie running).

It is a who can be the fastest slow runner race.

Boxing, but you can't actually hit the other guy.
Football, but you can't actually score a goal.
Shooting, but you have to miss the target.
Running, but you can't actually run.

Dodge

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

It's a crusade as 04072511 will keep banging on about the virtues of race walking even though the majority of us don't give a **** about it. As I said I don't see the point of it. That's my opinion and his crusade won't change it.

You're posting an awful lot for someone who doesn't give a **** about it...

shels4ever wrote:

Great thing about athletics is that in most cases the best person wins

This is also true for the walk, as serial gold medalists show

BobMac104

Ya i think the fact that the main rule that defines race walking (walk not run) is broken consistently is what undermines the effort a bit.

Pisco Sour

Dodge wrote: »

This is also true for the walk, as serial gold medalists show

Yep, there's some girl from Russia called Olga Kaniskina. She's pretty decent alright!

Can't remember the last time she has lost in a major championship to be honest. She's as much of a banker in her event as Rudisha currently is in the 800.

robinph

04072511 wrote: »

Yep, there's some girl from Russia called Olga Kaniskina. She's pretty decent alright!

Can't remember the last time she has lost in a major championship to be honest. She's as much of a banker in her event as Rudisha currently is in the 800.

Got a video of her feet during a walk?

ss43

robinph wrote: »

I'm struggling to think of a daft sport to compare it to, but racewalking is really an anti sport. It's trying to do something (go fast), but do it badly and not get caught doing it properly (ie running).

It is a who can be the fastest slow runner race.

Boxing, but you can't actually hit the other guy.
Football, but you can't actually score a goal.
Shooting, but you have to miss the target.
Running, but you can't actually run.

Shooting but instead of using the gun, you carry the bullet to the target. If the ref's not looking, you shoot.

BobMac104 wrote: »

Ya i think the fact that the main rule that defines race walking (walk not run) is broken consistently is what undermines the effort a bit.

Agreed.

Is it no big deal that loads of athletes took EPO in the 90s cos it was effectively impossible to police at the time.

RayCun

robinph wrote: »

Boxing, but you can't actually hit the other guy.
Football, but you can't actually score a goal.
Shooting, but you have to miss the target.
Running, but you can't actually run.

Boxing, but you're only allowed hit with your elbows!
Football, but you all have to be blindfolded! (although see)
Shooting, but you have to pull the trigger with your thumb!

Except anyone breaking those rules would be spotted immediately.

shels4ever

Dodge wrote: »

You're posting an awful lot for someone who doesn't give a **** about it...


This is also true for the walk, as serial gold medalists show

I'm not saying that the winners were not the best, but just the event its almost impossible to enforce the rules that make up the event. 50k of walking and i'm almost sure you would find cases that the winner should have been carded more often. Not saying that they should have been DQ but a card changes the race, and someone in second gets a second card, the race is basically over. The nature of the event it has to be equal across all runners . Thats my main gripe with the event.

Dodge

robinph wrote: »

I'm struggling to think of a daft sport to compare it to, but racewalking is really an anti sport. It's trying to do something (go fast), but do it badly and not get caught doing it properly (ie running).

Its not. its walking. Seperate to running.

Your analogy would be "Why swim the breaststroke, when freestyle gets you there quicker?"

Its not anti-sport, its just different.