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Would you shop someone to "de social"?

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Comments

  • #62
    doolox
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,345 ✭✭✭doolox


    There is a huge disconnect from the State and a lot of its people. We live in a system where only a small unrepresentative group of people get fairly treated, reasonably paid and have secure jobs. The rest are dumped in the casual, mostly private, sector where each paycheck is an uncertain gamble and each day is a huge challenge to pay bills and stay ahead of debt.

    The social welfare system is so rigged and set up that ordinary people cannot take many opportunities to make money when it arises for fear of losing their regular payments and benefits.

    While cases such as the recent Cork millionaire who got 4 yrs jail for defrauding the state of tax and SW payments are not to be condoned most SW fraud cases are technical in nature and involve 100's of Euros over days rather than 1000's over years.

    Garrett Fitzgeralds idea of a basic income for all the people in the country with suitable adjustments and unifying SW with taxation and other government systems seems to be the way to go. We need to take the social stigma and shame out of SW payments as many people now depend on them for significant periods of their lives regardless of abilities or health etc. Globalisation and the economic uncertainties mean that even the most talented and fit middle class people can experience some periods of unemployment regardless of how hard they try to avert it. relying on the free market alone to regulate pay and wages for people ignores the need of some family units for more money than others. This is what we rely on government to do, to fill in the needs for provision for children, old people and others not fit enough to work for some health reason.

    With 450,000 out of work and no hope of getting work for that many in a small country we need to share out whatever work there is by reducing the hours of all existing workers. Unfortunately, employers find it cheaper to employ lower numbers of people for longer hours using overtime payments to implement flexibliity in their work arrangements rather than hiring casual labour for the busy times as they did in the past. Employees will want to hold onto their 39 hours, indeed many will feel obliged to do so by mortgage payments and other loan commitments made in more optimistic times. The government will have to protect people from unfair loss of houses and other goods purely as a result from reduction in their working hours in order to accommodate members of the unemployed.

    I do not blame poor people who take casual "nixers" to supplement dole payments, if it is the difference between choosing between food or fuel for themselves and their families, a choice faced by many families today, or forgoing a necessary doctors visit ( for those with working spouses and denied medical cards ) or some other hard economic choice then I find it hard to blame them and would not shop them. The government have enough capable inspectors and suchlike without me adding to it.


  • #63
    44leto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,137 ✭✭✭44leto


    I was asked the same question before the recession/depression and I never would have.

    But now things have changed. Cuts are digging deep even into people who have NEVER claimed social welfare or needed hospital services before and this will get worse.

    To report the defrauders is now the moral thing to do.


  • #64
    wmpdd3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,627 ✭✭✭wmpdd3


    At a court hearing, a guy trying to reduce maintenance payments, submitted his accounts and bank statement, saying he only had SW and 1 days work per week. The judge looked at the statement and worked out he was managing to spend way more than he was saying earning.

    The judge found evidence that the guy was working way more hours than he was saying and claiming for those day form Social welfare, he put it to the person who basically admitted it. A higher maintenance amount was agreed, but nothing was done about the SW fraud. It was just glossed over.

    This all happened in the last year or so and is still going on.

    Yes, I would report SW fraud.


  • #65
    theg81der
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,644 ✭✭✭theg81der


    minidazzler wrote: »
    Why? The Housing list is extremely long, and these pricks are tying one up.

    They are not doing anything illegal as far as I know if they are staying each weekend and paying the rent the are meeting the conditions of their tenancy so if the council does come after them your their best witness! lol


  • #66
    sing_dumb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 89 ✭✭sing_dumb


    Yeah, I would, without a second thought. Everyone thinks it's the Skangers and Lone Parents, ie: the usual suspects that scam the system, well, no it's only a very small % of them that do. People would be stunned to learn that mostly Welfare Fraud is committed by cute hoors, well-heeled fkkkers, a lot of them professional people, with plenty of money behind them, who brazenly commit this crime, with not a jot of guilt. I see it every day in my job, and nothing would surprise me any more.


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  • #67
    binxeo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 243 ✭✭binxeo


    minidazzler wrote: »
    Have you been a benefits cheat? This country is in an awful condition, this person doesn't deserve the benefits. Simples.

    No but I have seen the destruction reports like this can cause to the children involved whether the reports were justified or not!!!!


  • #68
    theg81der
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,644 ✭✭✭theg81der


    doolox wrote: »
    I do not blame poor people who take casual "nixers" to supplement dole payments, if it is the difference between choosing between food or fuel for themselves and their families, a choice faced by many families today, or forgoing a necessary doctors visit ( for those with working spouses and denied medical cards ) or some other hard economic choice then I find it hard to blame them and would not shop them. The government have enough capable inspectors and suchlike without me adding to it.

    Not a casual nixer thou its every week for last few years and its not food or fuel she`s choosing between she buys clothes in shop I can`t afford to look in.


  • #69
    El Weirdo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,651 ✭✭✭✭El Weirdo


    theg81der wrote: »
    They are not doing anything illegal as far as I know if they are staying each weekend and paying the rent the are meeting the conditions of their tenancy so if the council does come after them your their best witness! lol
    Bollocks.

    It is a condition of their tenancy that the property is their main/only residence.


  • #70
    Will I Amnt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,222 ✭✭✭✭Will I Amnt


    theg81der wrote: »
    minidazzler wrote: »
    Why? The Housing list is extremely long, and these pricks are tying one up.

    They are not doing anything illegal as far as I know if they are staying each weekend and paying the rent the are meeting the conditions of their tenancy so if the council does come after them your their best witness! lol
    It must be illegal.
    They obviously have somewhere else to live.

    And they were renting it out aswel(I presume they were getting money for it)to another family.
    That's definitely illegal.


  • #71
    Freddie59
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭Freddie59


    I have to admit it would go against the grain to do so. But, nowadays anyway, some people are making a living from scrounging and working. So yeah.


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  • #72
    El Weirdo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,651 ✭✭✭✭El Weirdo


    cambo2008 wrote: »
    It must be illegal.
    They obviously have somewhere else to live.

    And they were renting it out aswel(I presume they were getting money for it)to another family.
    That's definitely illegal.

    Forgot about the sub-letting.

    Not illegal but definitely a breach of their tenancy agreement.


  • #73
    theg81der
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,644 ✭✭✭theg81der


    El Weirdo wrote: »
    Bollocks.

    It is a condition of their tenancy that the property is their main/only residence.

    Really? Can you give me a link I can`t find any but I remember a friend with a council house told me it was for life and you had to spend a ridiculously small amount of time there to meet the requirements she had the info at the time and I was so shocked when I read it.


  • #74
    theg81der
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,644 ✭✭✭theg81der


    cambo2008 wrote: »
    It must be illegal.
    They obviously have somewhere else to live.

    And they were renting it out aswel(I presume they were getting money for it)to another family.
    That's definitely illegal.

    Well it doesn`t make seen they can`t be sub letting it and there at the weekend?!! Sounds like it was probably family/older children or something not let out.


  • #75
    El Weirdo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,651 ✭✭✭✭El Weirdo


    theg81der wrote: »
    Really? Can you give me a link I can`t find any but I remember a friend with a council house told me it was for life and you had to spend a ridiculously small amount of time there to meet the requirements she had the info at the time and I was so shocked when I read it.
    No link I'm afraid as all local authorities would have a different tenancy agreement, but I worked in social housing and it's pretty standard. It was with the crowd I worked with, anyway.


  • #76
    Will I Amnt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,222 ✭✭✭✭Will I Amnt


    El Weirdo wrote: »

    Forgot about the sub-letting.

    Not illegal but definitely a breach of their tenancy agreement.
    Not illegal??really??
    So they can make a profit on renting out a house that they pay minimal rent on.


  • #77
    El Weirdo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,651 ✭✭✭✭El Weirdo


    cambo2008 wrote: »
    Not illegal??really??
    So they can make a profit on renting out a house that they pay minimal rent on.
    No. Pretty sure it's not illegal in the sense that they could be prosecuted for it. They would be evicted though.


  • #78
    Will I Amnt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,222 ✭✭✭✭Will I Amnt


    theg81der wrote: »

    Well it doesn`t make seen they can`t be sub letting it and there at the weekend?!! Sounds like it was probably family/older children or something not let out.
    They were sub-letting,the fella came knocking on me door asking was there a locksmith in the town as the "landlord" must have changed the locks.

    That was a good while ago and they obviously were not still living there at weekends then.


  • #79
    fat__tony
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 587 ✭✭✭fat__tony


    Saganist wrote: »
    This country is gas. Moan to the high hill about the state of the economy.

    Sees blatant social welfare fraud.

    Says nothing.

    And calls people who would, a rat... Typical..

    Indeed, typical of the spinless attitude which seems to prevail in the mindsets of Irish people these days


  • #80
    theg81der
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,644 ✭✭✭theg81der


    cambo2008 wrote: »
    They were sub-letting,the fella came knocking on me door asking was there a locksmith in the town as the "landlord" must have changed the locks.

    That was a good while ago and they obviously were not still living there at weekends then.

    Thats that clarified then! Definetely not allowed very naughty - I would have shopped them post-haste some poor kiddy stuck living in a b and b while they have a house that shoud be handed back.


  • #81
    theg81der
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,644 ✭✭✭theg81der


    fat__tony wrote: »
    Indeed, typical of the spinless attitude which seems to prevail in the mindsets of Irish people these days

    Its not spinlessness that stopping me doing something that could bite my step child in the ass!


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  • #82
    Helix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,661 ✭✭✭✭Helix


    flutterflye wrote: »
    shop her and what do you achieve?

    well, if everyone shopped people at it then there'd be less debt for the country wouldnt there. if youre working youre paying for these people, remember that


  • #83
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    For the record, if someone on the dole is renting out their main council home (partly or full) for some reason.
    1. They could be evicted.
    2. The social welfare will see it as income undeclared possibly and ask for SW repayments to say the least.
    3. The tax man might come a calling too!


  • #84
    MyKeyG
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,282 ✭✭✭MyKeyG


    SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »
    When i see the people who caused this economic disaster led away in handcuffs and then jailed,then and only then will i lift the phone to report social welfare fraud.
    Rubbish of the highest order. The two aren't close to connected. Welfare fraud has no impact on the 'people' that put us in the toilet, it just serves to further screw over the honest and decent tax payer.


  • #85
    flutterflye
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,538 ✭✭✭flutterflye


    Helix wrote: »
    well, if everyone shopped people at it then there'd be less debt for the country wouldnt there. if youre working youre paying for these people, remember that

    No you're not.
    You're tiny amount of tax goes into a large pool of money, which the government then decide what to do with.

    If it actually did mean that there would be more put into health, education, special needs etc etc etc... I might think differently on the matter.

    But in my mind, it is the government, the banks, and other such powers that are to blame here.
    They are the bigger criminals.

    Go for the drug lords, not the casual drug users.

    Feckin Joe Duffy generation and your "my wages pay for their dole" crap..
    Would you ever just cop on like.


  • #86
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,152 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    flutterflye wrote: »
    Feckin Joe Duffy generation and your "my wages pay for their dole" crap..
    Would you ever just cop on like.

    So you do you reckon DOES pay for their dole ? The tooth fairy ? :confused:


  • #87
    flutterflye
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,538 ✭✭✭flutterflye


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    So you do you reckon DOES pay for their dole ? The tooth fairy ? :confused:

    Maybe I will respond to that after you have taken some English grinds and I can actually understand your post.


  • #88
    Will I Amnt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,222 ✭✭✭✭Will I Amnt


    flutterflye wrote: »
    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    So you do you reckon DOES pay for their dole ? The tooth fairy ? :confused:

    Maybe I will respond to that after you have taken some English grinds and I can actually understand your post.
    The first you was meant to be a who.
    But I'm sure you could have figured that out.


  • #89
    theg81der
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,644 ✭✭✭theg81der


    flutterflye wrote: »
    Maybe I will respond to that after you have taken some English grinds and I can actually understand your post.

    Thats not nice Liam obviously finds this subject very emotive - no time for correct grammar! Agh sure you just don`t have an answer :p


  • #90
    SEPT 23 1989
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,038 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    Going after the weakest in society is a disgusting spectacle,we all know who caused this and they walk away into the sunset.


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  • #91
    Celly Smunt
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭Celly Smunt


    Kensington wrote: »

    Every Euro someone scams off the state is a Euro they could be putting into a hospital, a nursing home or a school.

    lol in a perfect world.


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