Does Ennis need another Shopping Centre?

cocochanel2011 · 03-11-2011 9:52pm

http://www.clarechampion.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=8076:chamber-shocked-by-lobby-letter-&catid=90:planning&Itemid=60

This story gets even more shocking.Check out todays Clare Champion. The Developer has lobbied locals with a letter with many points that should be brought to only 6 Councilors attention when they are trying to get them on side. Funny I thought there was more than 6 Councilors in the Ennis Town Council like 9 of them. Interesting how he only got his buddies as far a way as London only to contact 6.....?????

A letter which is incriminating towards The Ennis Chamber is absolutely Horrific in this day and age. The Chamber is speaking on behalf of the Business people in the Town,that is their opinion obviously based on solid facts if you read their letter to the editor in Champion today.That is what chambers represent all over the world(people in Business) and the developers obviously can't handle a chamber that is doing their job.

I really cannot believe the underhandedness that is crystal clear to me.
Developers,Bankers and TESCO are only going to win here....Most defiantly not the Town I LOVE....:(

If you feel as passionate about this as me, contact your Councilors and get them to see some sense:)

dr.fuzzenstein · 03-11-2011 10:06pm

Well, with the inevitable squabbling that is going to ensue between all parties we can be sure that, as usual, nothing gets done.
The out of town shopping center has been discussed for donkey's years and pedestrianising Ennis town center even longer.
This will also mean that nothing will get done about the rates and rents.
Except that rates and rents will keep going up.
So, with things continuing as they are, Ennis will be totally dead within 5 years, except Dunnes and Tescos, who are the only ones who can compete and have enough footfall to pay rates/rent.
So, whether Tesco moves or not, the outcome, under the ever competent guidance of our glorious leaders is going to be the same.
Tomato, tomato.

CptSternn · 04-11-2011 9:55am

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Well, with the inevitable squabbling that is going to ensue between all parties we can be sure that, as usual, nothing gets done.
The out of town shopping center has been discussed for donkey's years and pedestrianising Ennis town center even longer.
This will also mean that nothing will get done about the rates and rents.
Except that rates and rents will keep going up.
So, with things continuing as they are, Ennis will be totally dead within 5 years, except Dunnes and Tescos, who are the only ones who can compete and have enough footfall to pay rates/rent.
So, whether Tesco moves or not, the outcome, under the ever competent guidance of our glorious leaders is going to be the same.
Tomato, tomato.

That's it in a nutshell. Tesco will not have an adverse effect per-se. It will close down more businesses in town, but sure, they will be closing anyway due to the fact nothing is happening to help them. The opening of a new super Tesco will only speed along the inevitable.

Lets also not forget the big factor which many haven't thought about yet - they will be able to pay these exorbitant rates meaning the council doesn't have to take a pay cut or make any changes to the current status quo.

Follow the money. On the current path, small shops all close and the council is then in a crisis due to a lack of funding because there will be a lack of people paying rates. If they support a new super Tesco they are guaranteed the funding they need to keep their jobs. Councillors realise that it is in their best interest to have this new development else it could mean they would lose their jobs.

Does anyone really think they won't vote in favour of supporting their own financial future?

onthebrink · 04-11-2011 8:13pm

I think its time for all businesses to realise that if they are in business they are liable for rates, employers P.R.S.I., VAT etc. I am sick to the teeth of them giving out about the costs of running a business. If they cannot make a profit - tough. They charged outrageous prices and treated people badly during the Celtic Tiger era. Can they not see that people just don't have money to spend now. I am a PAYE worker, I have no choice but pay tax, USC, Pension Contribution all of which are deducted before I get my paycheque.

Clareman · 04-11-2011 9:07pm

Folks,

This thread is in danger of going off topic into a regular rant into the state of the economy, rates, taxes, etc. The thread is to discuss whether Ennis needs another shopping centre.

shannon_tek · 05-11-2011 2:04pm

Since when does the whole population revolve around Tesco.

Yes its going to be good for the south siders. But if your coming from the north side what is the point when you have Dunnes in the heart of the Town. Just cause Tesco want to uplift and move out its not the end of the world. just means that business in that central building will fall. Either way the business look at it they are threatened by Tesco. cause if they vote against Tesco moving south. All Tesco have to do is tell them their place and that they have the upper hand. Tesco's is not that important in my life. Yes its handy for one of too things . but i prefer Dunnes more homely and it would mean i would have to drive past Tesco's to get to it but it would be worth it.

IMHO Yes i think it would be nice to see a second shopping center around maybe it might have a cinema thats not a fire hazard

dr.fuzzenstein · 05-11-2011 5:58pm

onthebrink wrote: »

I think its time for all businesses to realise that if they are in business they are liable for rates, employers P.R.S.I., VAT etc. I am sick to the teeth of them giving out about the costs of running a business. If they cannot make a profit - tough. They charged outrageous prices and treated people badly during the Celtic Tiger era. Can they not see that people just don't have money to spend now. I am a PAYE worker, I have no choice but pay tax, USC, Pension Contribution all of which are deducted before I get my paycheque.

What an idiotic statement.
The point is that the town center is dying because any business will have to make several thousandEuro a week just to break even, nevermind make a profit.
And anyone running a business will likely work at least 6 days a week, 10 hours a day.
And after that you might not even have anything left over for yourself.
This will mean that at least 60% of all shops in the town won't be viable in the long run, simply by the way the banks and government run this place. I.e. like an insane howlermonkey suffering from CJD.
Due to the usual posing, infighting, point scoring and cosmetic politics (i.e. only doing stuff that makes you look good), I have about zero confidence in the future of Ennis.
In about 10 years time half of the town center will be boarded up, out of town shopping center, or not.
In the grand scheme of things it almost doesn't matter whether there will be a shopping center or not.
Because the thinking of any of the decision makers in and around Ennis seems to be "I will vote for this if it makes me look good and benefits me immediately, if I get nothing out of it for myself, they can go to hell"
That is about the best I can say about the morons running the place.
Unless you're in the right clubs, play golf, go drinking with the right people and know the right handshakes, running a business in Ennis is impossible because there's zero support and I know that for a fact.

CptSternn · 06-11-2011 8:14am

Clareman wrote: »

Folks,

This thread is in danger of going off topic into a regular rant into the state of the economy, rates, taxes, etc. The thread is to discuss whether Ennis needs another shopping centre.

Aren't rates and taxes the quite intertwined the discussion about the need for a second shopping centre?

Any position you take on the matter seems to have both of those subjects right in the middle of the argument you would be making.

Clareman10 · 06-11-2011 9:28pm

The requests to people to lobby councillors and the comments made about Ennis Chamber int he letter to Clare People and Clare Champion are bullying tactics being employed by a very arrogant individual. Ennis Chamber and Ennis Development forum are working voluntarily for the good of the town and their voice should be listened to. They know what is happening on the ground in Ennis. If this development goes ahead it will be a massive financial gain for the developer to the detriment and long term viability of retail shopping in Ennis.

Lady Chatterton · 06-11-2011 10:59pm

Chamber shocked by lobby letter

Written by Dan Danaher

ENNIS Chamber and other opponents of a proposed large retail development on the outskirts of the town, have been subjected to stinging criticism in a controversial lobbying document circulated by one of the developers.

According to a copy of the document leaked to The Clare Champion, local business people and residents have been provided with a list of points to help influence six of the Ennis town councillors ahead of a crucial vote on a variation to the Ennis and Environs Development Plan on Monday next.

Ennis Chamber chief executive officer, Rita McInerney, said members were “shocked and disappointed” with some of the contents of the document, particularly the criticism of the Chamber.

Ms McInerney stressed the Chamber, which has over 230 members representing over 4,000 employees, is pro-development, competition and pro-business.

In addition to meeting with Ennis Development Forum and traders associations in the main streets, she said it had embarked on a very inclusive consultation process before it drafted its submission reflecting the views of its members.

Considering local traders contribute commercial rates totaling €5.5 million annually, she noted traders feel local councillors should take into account the demise of Limerick City centre due to the provision of shopping centres in the suburbs and the impact of a new Tesco Extra, which would sell a huge range of household and consumer goods.

As claim and counter claims continue about whether or not the new development on the Tobarteascán/Clare Road junction would be, in the words of the developers “a foodstore”, or in Ennis Chamber’s view “a major Tesco superstore” about twice the size of the existing Tesco in Kilrush, lobbying by both sides has intensified over the last week.

Councillor Brian Meaney admitted the lobbying has been on a scale he has never experienced as an elected representative.

“People I knew in London about 30 years ago have contacted me seeking support for the development. I have restated my opposition on the basis of what has happened in Naas, Youghal and Clonmel.

“People in Youghal are lamenting the destruction of their town centre since the arrival of Tesco. The arrival of a large multinational in Ennis would have serious implications for the town. The future viability of the town centre is at stake,” he said.

Councillor Johnny Flynn admitted he was also shocked when shown the lobbying document and confirmed some of the statements have been repeated in emails sent to him by supporters of the development.

County manager Tom Coughlan and senior planners have recommended that the draft variation, previously adopted by councillors, should be removed. Councillor Flynn, who has decided not to vote next Monday because of his concern over a perceived conflict of interest as a civil engineer with up to 20 people who made submissions to the Ennis and Environs Plan, stressed councillors are only obliged to take into account issues that are relevant to the proper planning and development of the area.

The high stakes involved in securing support for the variation, which critics claim would pave the way for the development of a ‘district centre’ and a ‘doughnut effect’ similar to what has happened in Limerick City, are reflected in the defiant stance taken by one of the promoters, Michael Lynch Limited.

The developers insist their investment of over €34million will create 300 construction jobs and between 180 and 200 permanent sustainable jobs at a time when unemployment is at its worst in Clare since the 1980s.

In the document signed by Seamus Lynch, people who support the development are advised to tell Ennis town councillors that the “un-elected Chamber” do not speak for them, their family or friends.

“The Chamber want to protect their businesses at our expense; the council better act in the interest of the people. Since when did the Chamber start running this town?

“Why did we bother electing a town council if the Chamber are deciding who gets what and where? The Chamber is only speaking for its members and there are not that many of them. There are over 20,000 people living in the town of Ennis alone and we want cheaper groceries and more jobs.”

http://www.clarechampion.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=8076:chamber-shocked-by-lobby-letter-&catid=90:planning&Itemid=60

Lady Chatterton · 06-11-2011 11:01pm

Ennis builder says shopping centre would not hit town

A LOCAL building contractor has, this week, rejected suggestions that his company’s proposal for a major shopping centre at the junction of Tobarteascain and the Clare Road would be detrimental to Ennis town centre businesses.

“Our proposal is for the development of a new foodstore with potential for a library or other community facility for the people of the town and its surrounding areas,” said Seamus Lynch, managing director of Michael Lynch Limited. “This proposal, to bring a new and attractive foodstore to Ennis, represents a potential investment of more than €34 million for our town. The suggestion that our proposal will provide a major shopping centre or complex that could compete with Ennis town centre is factually incorrect.”

Mr Lynch said he could confirm that Tesco has no intention of moving from its existing store at Francis Street.

He said over the last number of months, he had noted observations in the media in relation to the proposal to develop a foodstore and associated facilities in Ennis. “In particular, I noted a number of inaccuracies in the comments made by the various contributors,” he said.
“We have been working on this project for more than five years and it will probably take another two years to complete. As such, any serious proposal to develop another site in Ennis is, I believe, still many years away. I believe Ennis needs new shopping facilities, investment and new jobs now, not in a few years or at some distant point in the future,” he added.

Mr Lynch pointed to the fact that the recently released preliminary Census 2011 results show there are over 50,000 people now living in either the rural or urban areas of Ennis and the total population of County Clare has now reached 117,000.

“Unemployment in Ennis is now at a record high and our young people are emigrating to find work. Retail leakage from our town is at a crisis point. We need a catalyst to begin to bring Ennis back to the thriving commercial hub it once was and keep our young people living and working in Clare,” he said.

Continuing, Mr Lynch added, “Our investment of over €34m will create 300 construction jobs and between 180 and 200 permanent sustainable jobs when the development is fully operational. It is a long-established economic principle that all investment has a multiplier effect. This is normally taken as for every €100 you invest, it has a €140 benefit to the local economy. This multiplier effect also relates to job creation; for every 100 jobs you create, this has a 140-job benefit to the local economy, with the extra jobs being generated in other local business to support and cater for the newly created jobs.

“Over the course of the Celtic Tiger years, many speculative proposals for retail developments have been brought forward in Ennis, promising jobs and economic rejuvenation of the town centre. None of any major significance has come to fruition. Our proposal is a non-speculative development. We have the funding in place, we have the end user in place and most of all we have the determination to play our part in the economic recovery of our home town.

“There has been much speculation regarding the existing Tesco store on Francis Street and I can confirm that Tesco have no intention of moving from there,” he said. He has a letter to this effect, which was lodged with Ennis Town Council as part of his company’s planning application.

“Many years ago, when the Dunnes development was proposed, many of the same negative voices were heard objecting. The Tesco Shopping Centre at Francis Street, the Dunnes centre at Friars Walk and our proposed development at the Clare Road will add a new dimension to shopping in Ennis and help restore Ennis as the retail destination for this county.

“In the spirit of openness and to give the general public an opportunity to see for themselves what is being proposed, I intend to hold a public exhibition of our proposals in the coming weeks. I will publish details of where and when the exhibition will take place as soon as these are confirmed.

“I would like to say, I was born in Ennis, I live in Ennis, I work in Ennis and I am fully committed to supporting our town on its way out of this economic downturn, supporting it to be a better place to work, to shop, to visit and, most importantly, to live in,” Mr Lynch concluded.

http://www.clarechampion.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=7933:ennis-builder-says-shopping-centre-would-not-hit-town-&catid=63:business&Itemid=60

Lady Chatterton · 06-11-2011 11:03pm

Opposition to large-scale supermarket

Opposition to the proposed development of a 70,000ft2 foodstore at the junction of Tobarteascain and the Clare Road in Ennis is gathering momentum.

The investment of over €34 million will create 300 construction jobs and between 180 and 200 permanent sustainable jobs at a time when unemployment is at its worst in Clare since the 1980s, according to Seamus Lynch, managing director of Michael Lynch Limited.

“Contrary to claims that we plan to build a shopping centre, the planning application we made is for a foodstore and not a shopping centre,” he said. “Specifically, the site will include a foodstore, a purpose-built community building to house a much-needed new library that will be handed over to Ennis Town Council free-of-charge and a new office building for Michael Lynch Limited.

“Our planning application has clearly stated that Tesco will continue to operate at the Ennis Shopping Centre, it will not be closing.”

Ennis Chamber and Ennis Development Forum said they want to bring clarity to the debate around two separate important issues; the first involves the planning application for the supermarket and the second involves a number of last-minute town plan rezoning modifications being proposed by local councillors, one of which includes the same site referenced in the Michael Lynch planning application.

Their joint statement notes the supermarket development proposal is a matter for Ennis Town Council as the statutory planning authority, as a planning application is being considered on its merits.

Ennis Town Council and Clare County Council managers’ reports on town plan rezoning modifications being proposed by local councillors have been prepared and forwarded to the local councillors, the groups note.

“Both [managers] have recommended that the last-minute rezoning changes for the Clare Road site to enable the future development of a large district centre not be adopted as they are inappropriate.

“This recommendation by the planning authorities upholds the position within the Ennis Chamber and Ennis Development Forum submissions to statutory public consultation process,” the groups state.

Individual traders’ groups have also expressed their opposition to the development, registering concern that Ennis would succumb to the ‘doughnut effect’ and have its business drained from the traditional shopping areas.

Barry O’Driscoll, chairman of the stock management company at Quin Road Business Park, said owners/managers of several businesses there were shocked and dismayed at the proposal for such a large-scale shopping development at the Tobarteascain/Clare Road junction.

“This scale of development would certainly lead to a doughnut effect for Ennis town centre. It would be catastrophic for existing businesses within the town centre area,” said Mr O’Driscoll.

“There are a lot of business casualties out there already,” Mr O’Driscoll noted in reference to closed premises on the Quin Road and around the town.
“Our group on the Quin Road is very much pro-business and pro-Ennis on this issue. We simply cannot have our town faced with the doughnut scenario.
“This development shouldn’t go ahead.”

Clare Labour Constituency Executive has endorsed Councillor Paul O’Shea’s opposition to the proposed development on the outskirts of Ennis. Clare Labour has called on other Ennis town councillors to support Councillor O’Shea in the vote planned for next Monday’s meeting.
Constituency chairwoman Jo Walsh and PRO for the county, Seamus Ryan, made the point that the propaganda that Tesco would be increasing the number of jobs in the county town belied the fact that the overall number of jobs would drop as economic pressure of an even larger multiple store in the town would force small business to cut jobs just to survive.

http://www.clarechampion.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=8110:opposition-to-large-scale-supermarket&catid=55:ennis&Itemid=56

Balagan · 07-11-2011 7:35am

Clareman10 wrote: »

The requests to people to lobby councillors and the comments made about Ennis Chamber int he letter to Clare People and Clare Champion are bullying tactics being employed by a very arrogant individual. Ennis Chamber and Ennis Development forum are working voluntarily for the good of the town and their voice should be listened to. They know what is happening on the ground in Ennis. If this development goes ahead it will be a massive financial gain for the developer to the detriment and long term viability of retail shopping in Ennis.

Ennis Chamber of Commerce is, according to its own website
http://www.mylocalnews.ie/clare-5/ennis-46/arts-clubs-organisations-13/business-groups-195/ennis-chamber-of-commerce-1552/
"working for its member companies and businesses" and Ennis Development Forum was, according to this Irish Times article http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2011/0521/1224297433356.html
set up in 2008 "to stand up for shop owners."

So, it is not correct to say that these bodies are working voluntarily for the good of the town, but correct to say that they are working for the good of the business interests of the town. Fair enough. It is obvious that there is spin going on in every corner, and some of it is particularly brash and a bit strange (a library?) but that is the way of the world in these mad times.

As for me, an ordinary shopper with no business interests, well, I went off to Limerick on Saturday, as has become usual now, to get the few slightly specialist food items I need for my family for dietary reasons which are readily available from every Tesco in Limerick but dropped from Ennis who, in doing that, may be putting their own bit of spin. And while there, we went for the cup of coffee and into the bigger bookshops in Limerick and did a bit of extra shopping the way you do when you find yourself there. If there was a full Tesco in Ennis, I'd not have been in Limerick on Saturday. I would go there or Galway for clothes shopping and for household goods now and then because you get them for a fraction of the cost of Ennis and have a vast choice. But for the rest of the time, if there was a decent Tesco in Ennis, I would get what I want there and come back into the town centre for other regular shopping, the cup of coffee etc. So if 'the foodstore' proposed for the Clare Road is definitely a Tesco, then I'm for it but if it is anything else, then I'll still be driving into Limerick.

Atilathehun · 07-11-2011 4:41pm

Come to think of it, there is probably not one single town in the entire country that needs a new shopping centre. We have too many shopping centres, operating way below capacity, due to fact people are not spending.
We dont need another Tesco anywhere. What we need is the Tescos we have to charge the same prices in the ROI, as they do in NI and UK;)

Sonz · 07-11-2011 7:33pm

MOSSAD wrote: »

No more shopping centres. We have enough.

Well really it's being moved so it's not adding to the amount of shopping centers already in ennis...

dr.fuzzenstein · 07-11-2011 10:28pm

Sonz wrote: »

Well really it's being moved so it's not adding to the amount of shopping centers already in ennis...

And the sooner they move out of that shed they're in, the better.
Parking is terrible. Traffic is terrible. The shop looks terrible.
And if there's a match on, forget it!
It's like muppet bumper cars out there, I actually turn around when I see a sea of cars abandoned any old where and do my shopping elsewhere or another day.

P.S.
I go into town for the little bookshops and somewhere nice to sit down and have a coffee and a muffin whilst reading the paper.
Having a shopping center out of town would not deter me, I don't buy my groceries in O'Connel Square and I don't go to Tescos for a nice, relaxing stroll and to read the paper.
Town center and grocery shopping are two very different things.

Balagan · 08-11-2011 10:20am

from Clare FM Website News http://clare.fm/news/council-rules-out-major-comerical-centre-ennis-tesco-site

COUNCIL RULES OUT MAJOR COMERICAL CENTRE ON ENNIS TESCO SITE
8 November, 2011 - 08:42 Economy and Employment
The Town of Ennis won't see a major commercial or district centre proceeding on the Limerick Road, after members of Ennis Town Council chose not to vary the local development plan for such purposes.
It's seen as a blow for plans by Michael Lynch Limited and Tesco to build a large retail unit on their site at Tobartaoscain, but does NOT rule out their development going ahead in some form.
Despite a protest by local traders and claims from one councillor that talks on the Ennis plan had "got dirtier than the Presidential Elections", the council was unanimous in their decision not to include proposed modifications to the Ennis Development Plan - namely the need for a "district centre" for the family shopping market.
But proposals by Michael Lynch Limited and Tesco will still be considered in line with planning procedures and could go ahead in some form according to Ennis Town Manager Ger Dollard.

Interesting use of the word 'despite'. Perhaps 'because of' or 'due to' would be more apt?

littlesthobo · 08-11-2011 12:58pm

MrsD007 wrote: »

Liddy's Gala Store in Roslevan is quite an nice store, it has won a number of awards, I also like Barry Lynch's Store in the new Gort Road Shopping Centre (Sheils).

Unfortunately, O'Connors in Nenagh closed down in May 2011 with a loss of 70 jobs.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0526/nenagh.html

Forgot about Lynch's. Nice shop and Barry's a sound guy

littlesthobo · 08-11-2011 1:31pm

Shapey Fiend wrote: »

Sure why does everything have to be under one roof? I go to the bakers for bread, butchers for meat, veg shop for vegetables then pick up a few odds and ends in Tesco or Aldi. I like having everything in the center because I can dash around them all in half an hour without having to drive to multiple outlets on the other side of town.

I'd rather be like Galway than Limerick. Pretty much everything is within 10 minutes walking distance and independent shops get a fair crack of the whip as well as the multinationals.

It doesn't but thats for convenience and i agree 100% with the above. Our local bakers has some lovely stuff you cant get anywhere else. The butchers has produce from local farms as does the fruit & veg shop and of a similar /superior quality & price as you'll find in any supermarket. By supporting these business the money stays local and keeps local people in work.

CptSternn · 10-11-2011 8:18am

Balagan wrote: »

from Clare FM Website News http://clare.fm/news/council-rules-out-major-comerical-centre-ennis-tesco-site

COUNCIL RULES OUT MAJOR COMERICAL CENTRE ON ENNIS TESCO SITE
8 November, 2011 - 08:42 Economy and Employment
The Town of Ennis won't see a major commercial or district centre proceeding on the Limerick Road, after members of Ennis Town Council chose not to vary the local development plan for such purposes.
It's seen as a blow for plans by Michael Lynch Limited and Tesco to build a large retail unit on their site at Tobartaoscain, but does NOT rule out their development going ahead in some form.
Despite a protest by local traders and claims from one councillor that talks on the Ennis plan had "got dirtier than the Presidential Elections", the council was unanimous in their decision not to include proposed modifications to the Ennis Development Plan - namely the need for a "district centre" for the family shopping market.
But proposals by Michael Lynch Limited and Tesco will still be considered in line with planning procedures and could go ahead in some form according to Ennis Town Manager Ger Dollard.

Interesting use of the word 'despite'. Perhaps 'because of' or 'due to' would be more apt?

I heard that on the news...as I was traveling to Limerick to do some shopping.

Shapey Fiend · 11-11-2011 10:48am

Let people drive to limerick if they want. If they're that determined to send their money out of the irish economy it doesn't matter if the tescos is in ennis or limerick. I wouldn't be bothered going that far.

I think people should question the pursuit of cheap as the be all and end all. In many cases it's the supermarket making the supplier do the discounting. Maybe half the country wouldn't be so unhealthy if they paid what something was worth and bought a bit less of it.

I've been living in Cork for the last few years and get almost everything in the english market because it's cheaper, and a thousand times nicer, than tesco.

The town has enough supermarkets, if not too many already. How many do people need?

Balagan · 11-11-2011 11:59am

Shapey Fiend wrote: »

Let people drive to limerick if they want. If they're that determined to send their money out of the irish economy it doesn't matter if the tescos is in ennis or limerick. I wouldn't be bothered going that far.

I think people should question the pursuit of cheap as the be all and end all. In many cases it's the supermarket making the supplier do the discounting. Maybe half the country wouldn't be so unhealthy if they paid what something was worth and bought a bit less of it.

I've been living in Cork for the last few years and get almost everything in the english market because it's cheaper, and a thousand times nicer, than tesco.

The town has enough supermarkets, if not too many already. How many do people need?

I hope it keeps fine for you!

dr.fuzzenstein · 11-11-2011 11:59am

Shapey Fiend wrote: »

The town has enough supermarkets, if not too many already. How many do people need?

If I understand correctly, no new supermarkets are proposed.
I do like Ennis town center, but the whole street where Tesco and the GAA ground is, is a disaster.
I drive past Coonagh and since it's free to park, bigger, nicer, better choice and nicer stuff I would have to be insane to drive into Ennis, fight my way through the traffic, wait 10 minutes for a space, pay for the privilege of being allowed to shop there (I don't care about the refund, it's the principle) and have to come home with half my shopping missing cause it's not in.
It really is not nice shopping in that cowshed.

littlesthobo · 11-11-2011 11:18pm

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

If I understand correctly, no new supermarkets are proposed.
I do like Ennis town center, but the whole street where Tesco and the GAA ground is, is a disaster.
I drive past Coonagh and since it's free to park, bigger, nicer, better choice and nicer stuff I would have to be insane to drive into Ennis, fight my way through the traffic, wait 10 minutes for a space, pay for the privilege of being allowed to shop there (I don't care about the refund, it's the principle) and have to come home with half my shopping missing cause it's not in.
It really is not nice shopping in that cowshed.

I see your point but you'd swear that Tesco was the only supermarket in town the way your talking. I think its generally accepted that they've done nothing to improve that place in years in anticipation of building out of town.

MyKeyG · 11-11-2011 11:24pm

littlesthobo wrote: »

I see your point but you'd swear that Tesco was the only supermarket in town the way your talking. I think its generally accepted that they've done nothing to improve that place in years in anticipation of building out of town.

Yeah it's a dump and the staff look suicidal. Dunne's is way more presentable and it has easy access to the town but I always found Tesco appears to have better selection.

Battleflag · 12-11-2011 8:44am

MyKeyG wrote: »

Yeah it's a dump and the staff look suicidal. Dunne's is way more presentable and it has easy access to the town but I always found Tesco appears to have better selection.

I'd say you would look suicidal if you had to work in a supermarket, staff in Tesco are heaps better than the ones in Dunnes - at least they understand English

CptSternn · 12-11-2011 9:10am

Shapey Fiend wrote: »

Let people drive to limerick if they want. If they're that determined to send their money out of the irish economy it doesn't matter if the tescos is in ennis or limerick.

...

I've been living in Cork for the last few years and get almost everything in the english market because it's cheaper, and a thousand times nicer, than tesco.

You do realise in your first sentence you come out against sending money out of the Irish economy, then follow up by saying you do the exact same thing and have for some time.

Also, Tesco is UK based and their products come from of course the UK.

johnam · 12-11-2011 9:17am

CptSternn wrote: »

You do realise in your first sentence you come out against sending money out of the Irish economy, then follow up by saying you do the exact same thing and have for some time.

Also, Tesco is UK based and their products come from of course the UK.

The English Market in Cork is not English.....you do know that, right???

CptSternn · 12-11-2011 11:07am

johnam wrote: »

The English Market in Cork is not English.....you do know that, right???

Been to Cork once.

CptSternn · 12-11-2011 11:19am

Did a quick Google and see The English Market is a shopping centre in Cork, but still, it can't compare with a new Tesco Plus. It's like comparing apples and oranges. The English Market sells food. Tesco Plus is like a Wal-Mart - they sell everything for a decent price. I lived for a while in Leixlip and they had one five minutes away in Maynooth and it was amazing. Much like the one at Coonagh Cross in Limerick but even bigger and better.

The butchers, bakers, and green grocers in Ennis are of course better and cheaper than Tesco for food, but no one is advocating opening a new Tesco because they want a larger, cheaper food selection.

Until The English Market starts selling flat screen tellys, XBox games, furniture, PC supplies, clothing, and home wares you can't compare the two.

Lady Chatterton · 12-11-2011 11:21am

Cpt Sternn - You have to admit johnam got you good there

johnam · 12-11-2011 12:25pm

CptSternn wrote: »

Did a quick Google and see The English Market is a shopping centre in Cork, but still, it can't compare with a new Tesco Plus. It's like comparing apples and oranges. The English Market sells food. Tesco Plus is like a Wal-Mart - they sell everything for a decent price. I lived for a while in Leixlip and they had one five minutes away in Maynooth and it was amazing. Much like the one at Coonagh Cross in Limerick but even bigger and better.

The butchers, bakers, and green grocers in Ennis are of course better and cheaper than Tesco for food, but no one is advocating opening a new Tesco because they want a larger, cheaper food selection.

Until The English Market starts selling flat screen tellys, XBox games, furniture, PC supplies, clothing, and home wares you can't compare the two.

If you are ever in Cork again, visit the English Market, it is like every high quality butcher, green grocer, farmers market stall all rolled into one. Great place, even just to walk around for 30minutes and soak in the atmosphere, you will realise pretty quickly that the day it starts selling electronics is the day it will close.

Back to topic, I would have loved to have seen a new Tesco open in Ennis, just to give a bit of competition to Dunnes. I can't stand the current Tesco, it is dirty, extremely badly laid out (although the new Dunnes lay out isn't much better), and it carries only a small portion of the stock that Coonagh does. When my daughter was a baby we used to drive to Coonagh especially for baby formula as Tesco Ennis didn't carry the one we wanted, and Dunnes was €5.00 per packet more expensive at the time. (€10.45 vs €15.45). Buying 5 or 6 packets justified the trip.

A new Tesco wouldn't have stopped me shopping in the town, I live in Loughville and work in the town, and what puts me off shopping there is the cars. It is fine on my own, but with my daughter it is a nightmare, you cannot relax. Ennis T.C. didn't give the pedestrianisation trial a proper chance, they just blocked off the streets and said after a few weeks that it doesn't work. People complained that it was too hard to get around the town, but nothing was done to change the traffic system. Think about how you would get from the Lahinch Rd (Cliffs of Moher) to the Old Ground Hotel, when the town center is closed and all the sign posts direct you to cross over Club Bridge. Total confusion. A simple solution would have been to reverse the direction of traffic on that stretch of one way street outside Ciarans Bar, that would have allowed cars drive up Abbey street Car park on one side and up by Glor on the other side of the town.

I do my weekly shop in Dunnes, and I walk to the Butcher and Veg shop in Turnpike for a nicer selection. A new Tesco might mean that I wouldn't shop in Dunnes any more, but it wouldn't stop me going to the Turnpike for my fruit, veg and meats.

My only fear for a new tesco is what would happen with the old one, I can see it being left to run down even further until it becomes a unused eye sore which in this market no one is going to invest in.

Clareman · 12-11-2011 1:33pm

I believe the plan is for the existing Tesco to move into Penny's and turn into a Tesco Express store and Penny's to move into where Tesco's is now. I think everyone is in agreement that the existing Tesco's needs to be improved, what they are looking to do is move it and leave a smaller store behind, a bit like what happened in Tralee. There would also be a duty of upkeep for all the existing lease holders in the centre. Anyway, if they place was to fall down it still wouldn't be as much an eyesore as the disgrace across the road, but that's a discussion for another day

IMVHO, I think Ennis could do with a new Tesco's, for all their evils they aren't going away anytime soon, why not have a nice new shiney one, there are 3 better Tesco's within 45 minutes of Ennis (Oranmore, Kilrush & Coonagh) and there's a site available for Ennis for them to build, I would presume that like most big companies Tesco build their own shops rather than trying to retro-fit other business premises. Most shoppers will go from place to place to do their shopping now and are much more price conscience, more and more people will move to online shopping as well.

dr.fuzzenstein · 12-11-2011 7:22pm

littlesthobo wrote: »

I see your point but you'd swear that Tesco was the only supermarket in town the way your talking. I think its generally accepted that they've done nothing to improve that place in years in anticipation of building out of town.

Absolutely, they let the place fall down.
But what if they cannot build out of town? They'll do what they did in Shannon and just up sticks and GTFO.
For some reason I just cannot bring myself to shop in Dunnes.
Dunno why, nothing wrong with the place, I have not a bad thing to say about Dunnes in Ennis, just never go there.

Figerty · 12-11-2011 10:35pm

Leaving Shannon for the Coonagh shopping centre didn't turn out so well.

Taking Tesco out of the town centre out to near St. Flannans isn't a good move for the town as whole.

The Lynch group hasn't covered itself in Glory with the Hotels in recent past. The Clare Inn fiasco and the shafting of suppliers at the West County shows that you couldn't believe their radios.

Nevermind_ · 13-11-2011 2:57pm

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

But what if they cannot build out of town? They'll do what they did in Shannon and just up sticks and GTFO.

Yeah they are going to close a profitable store in a regional town where they want to build a bigger one, because they cant get planning and hand market share to Dunnes/lidl/aldi ??
Do you seriously think that is how Tesco operate?

dr.fuzzenstein · 13-11-2011 6:08pm

Nevermind_ wrote: »

Yeah they are going to close a profitable store in a regional town where they want to build a bigger one, because they cant get planning and hand market share to Dunnes/lidl/aldi ??
Do you seriously think that is how Tesco operate?

Let's just say I have very little faith in the intelligence, integrity and concern for the greater good of anyone involved in this process.
That means anything is possible, but the standard outcome is that very little will happen over very long periods of time, other than some nice statues going up in town.
Ennis has changed very little over the last 20 years and the squabbling and infighting of various self interest groups is responsible for that.
So if there actually is any movement on this in the next five years, I will eat my car.

Lady Chatterton · 16-02-2012 5:41pm

Michael Lynch Limited has requested that An Bord Pleanála hold an oral hearing to decide the fate of his proposed 34 million retail development on the outskirts of Ennis. In January, the town council refused to grant the development planning permission.

Ennis development decision appealed

Written by Jessica Quinn

THE developers behind controversial proposals to construct a €34 million retail development on the outskirts of Ennis have appealed the town council’s decision to refuse the development planning permission.
Michael Lynch Limited has requested that An Bord Pleanála hold an oral hearing to decide the fate of the project.

In January, Ennis Town Council refused planning permission for the development on a site at the Limerick Road/Tobarteascain Road, considering the proposal to be “premature” pending the upgrade of the wastewater treatment plant at Clareabbey and the implementation of the Ennis South Flood Relief Scheme.

The proposed development was opposed by a number of groups including Ennis Chamber, businesses and traders associations and residents, with fears that it could lead to a ‘doughnut effect’.
According to an appeal lodged by Tony Bamford Planning on behalf of Michael Lynch Ltd, “The application was refused for two technical reasons and both can be readily overcome through a series of appropriate and effective engineering solutions.”

The appeal goes on to state, “importantly, the planning authority did not raise any concerns in relation to the principal, scale, quantum or design of the proposed development. In this context, we request that the board holds an oral hearing in relation to the current project. This will enable the technical solutions available to resolve the engineering issues raised by the planning authority, in its notification of decision to refuse permission, to be considered in full by An Bord Pleanála, interested third parties, the planning authority and the applicant.”
It is stated that the applicant has “invested substantially” in acquiring three additional properties, which has taken close to five years but “will allow for the creation of a landmark development that addresses the Limerick Road, in accordance with the Ennis and Environs Development Plan 2008.”

The appeal insists that the proposed development accords with national, regional and local planning policy. It is pointed out that the board has accepted the lands are suitable for a district centre, and the application has “fully responded” to the board’s previous refusal on the site.
The appeal states that in accordance with national retail policy, the format of the development “conforms with the broad definition of a district centre and is of a scale subordinate to the town centre, thus respecting the established retail hierarchy”.

It is put forward that the development “will represent much-needed investment in the Ennis retail market”. The appeal states, “Substantial capacity exists in the area for both convenience and non-bulky comparison floor space. Given the inability to bring forward a suitable site in the town centre, the appeal site’s acknowledged suitability for a district centre would ensure additional family shopping is appropriately located within Ennis.”

The appeal goes on to say that the proposed development accords with the Ennis and Environs Development Plan 2008. It adds, “The subject site, located on the Limerick Road, has been earmarked for retail-led development since the County Retail Strategy 2003 and is designated as Proposal Site 7 (PS7) in the Ennis and Environs Development Plan 2008 as varied. It is recognised as a key opportunity site to ensure the provision of retail floorspace in Ennis reflects its status as a hub town and the premier retail and service centre for the county as set out in the Retail Strategy for the Mid-West Region, the County Development Plan and Ennis and Environs Development Plan.”

The developers insist, “Retail capacity and impact considerations have guided the overall scale of the proposal, to one that will complement rather than compete with the town centre. Many of the objectors have described the project as a shopping centre or retail park; that is, a large multi-unit development similar to the Crescent Shopping Centre in Limerick, Manor West in Tralee or even Monread Road in Naas. The proposal is none of these.

“The project does not have the scale or variety to be an alternative retail destination to Ennis town centre. The entire thesis of the project from conception was to provide a retail development that adds to the Ennis retail offer in a positive manner without detracting from the inherent attraction of Ennis town centre.”

The appeal points out that approximately 300 construction jobs and between 180 and 200 operational jobs in the foodstore alone will be created if the development is given the green light.

“In all material respects, the proposed development provides a key opportunity for Ennis to capitalise on a strategic and underutilised brownfield site on the southern entry to the town centre. The proposal will make a positive contribution not only to the urban fabric of the town, but also through the social benefits which will accrue, which include lasting local jobs for local people.”

http://www.clarechampion.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=9183:ennis-development-decision-appealed&catid=63:business&Itemid=60

Carazy · 11-06-2012 1:49pm

Decision on this development is due today.

Clare FM wrote:

Decision due on Ennis Retail Project
11 June, 2012 - 09:08

An Bord Pleanala will today make its decision on whether a planned major retail development on the
outskirts of Ennis will get the green light.
The project's backers say it would have created up 500 jobs, but the project has been opposed by
local businesses who say it would take trade away from Ennis town centre.

In January, Ennis Town Council refused Michael Lynch Ltd. permission to construct a major retail unit,
with Tesco as the main tenant, as well as offices and a public library for the town at a site on the Clare
Road opposite St. Flannan's College.

The overall cost was slated at 34-million euro, with 300 positions coming on stream during construction
and a further 200 created once open.

The local authority said the application was compliant with the town's development plan, but was 'premature'
pending upgrade of the waste water treatment plant at Clareabbey and pending the implementation of the Ennis
South Flood Relief Scheme.

The Council's decision was subsequently appealed to An Bord Pleanala, who will make their decision today.

Among submissions received by the planning appeals authority is one from Ennis Chamber of Commerce,
who say similar developments in other towns nationwide have led to a drop in trade and significant job losses in
town centres.

Update

Clare FM wrote:

An Bord Pleanala puts back Ennis Retail Development Decision
11 June, 2012 - 15:15

A decision on whether a proposed major retail development on the outskirts of Ennis can proceed or not, has
been put back.

An Bord Pleanala was due to release its decision today in relation to Micheál Lynch Ltd's appeal to construct a
major retail unit with Tesco as the anchor tenant on a site on the Clare Road opposite Saint Flannan's College.

It was originally rejected by Ennis Town Council in January.

The developers say the project would create up to 500 jobs but local businesspeople fear it would take away
trade from the town centre.

A spokesperson from the planning appeals body says the matter has yet to go before their board and letters
with a new decision date is being set out to all those involved

Nevermind_ · 11-06-2012 4:13pm

Decision put back

http://clare.fm/news/bord-pleanala-puts-back-ennis-retail-development-decision

JupiterKid · 12-06-2012 4:05am

The Tesco store in Ennis opened about 40 years ago (back then it was Quinnsworth of course). Is this still the same Tesco in operation today? Has it even been refurbished since the 70s/80s?

Clareman · 12-06-2012 8:17am

Still the same store, it has had a couple of re-fits in line with changing Tesco brands but I can't remember there being any big structural changes, I was over there once when it was raining and staff were going around with buckets from where the water was going to come in the roof, they knew where the leaks were cause it always leaked in the same place but couldn't close the shop to get it fixed.

IMVHO, the staff in Ennis are some of the nicest Tesco staff you'll come across, they always go out of their way to help you and are a credit to the company, but when you go to other Tesco stores you see the difference, the car park is a joke (spaces too small and the layout in shocking), the store is run down, not nearly big enough to carry a lot of the stock and the lanes are very narrow.

Shapey Fiend · 13-06-2012 1:39pm

The issues with it could be fixed fairly easily they just haven't spent much on the existing location because they were planning on moving.

Clareman · 13-06-2012 4:30pm

I don't know if they'd be able to do much with the current location, it's a 40 year old building with a flat roof, to fix it and the car park they would have to knock it and start again I'd imagine, with all the units taken in the place as well I would imagine that they wouldn't be able to do that

Nevermind_ · 14-06-2012 11:02am

Clareman wrote: »

I don't know if they'd be able to do much with the current location, it's a 40 year old building with a flat roof, to fix it and the car park they would have to knock it and start again I'd imagine, with all the units taken in the place as well I would imagine that they wouldn't be able to do that

I've seen much larger Tescos squeezed into much smaller sites than the one in ennis, decked car parking etc with a decent architect it could be done. Although they would have to compensate the existing leaseholders in the centre but its not impossible.

Does Ennis need another Shopping Centre?

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