Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 - Mod Note 4153

flahavaj · 06-11-2011 07:52PM

ShamoBuc wrote: »

I don't think it will actually. I expect far better performances against those two. It's the 'average' teams that we cannot raise our game for. We should be playing with a far greater urgency/vitality for games like yesterday. Even if we win both those games, we would probably drop points in the next game with a slacker performance.

You could have a point actually. Couls certainly see ye getting a result from Chelsea. They're way too open at the moment compared to the solid machine they used to be.

Jayob10 · 06-11-2011 07:57PM

mixednuts wrote: »

See it's just me but I don't care much for statistics .

I just want quality players at the club .

See if I did care for statistics this one would really get up my hole;
Spurs tonight had only 3 shots on goal and scored 3 goals .
That's 30 shots less than us with the same return .

Now as I said the "statistic" doesn't bother me because it's all down to the quality of player(s)in front of goal ... that's were we have failed .

Statistics change quality stays .
It's crazy to think that God forbid Suarez gets injured tomorrow then we are totally fooked for scoring options..No exaggeration , fact .

I know the past few days I have come across as a right moany bastard but it's just the time has elapsed for me when it comes to Andy Carroll.
I said I would give it time before I judge him , but he has started most games and has not shown one sign of quality be it - scoring , assists , passing , awareness , tactics .. Nada !

I'm sorry I just dont see were this potential is gonna come from as he hasnt shown one bit of it .

People go on about him during yesterday's game saying " he headed down crosses but no one there " .... He done it twice , big swing .
The Swansea centre forward Danny Graham put him to shame FFS.

He is just not good enough and never will be ... sooner the better people (inc management) see it the quicker we move on from the massive mistake .

Again I never mentioned the fee which had nothing to do with Andy Carroll . I'm discussing his ability as a top drawer EPL striker to play along side the likes of Luis Suarez.

Rant over .

Have to agree with ya mixednuts. People say we shouldn't talk about the fee and that it isn't Carroll's fault. Well of course it isn't Carroll's fault.

Nobody blames him for his fee. Any criticism is aimed at those in power who saw him as a worthy investment for that sum of money which he clearly is not.

My problem with Carroll is that he is not adaptable to play the kind of football Dalglish seems to want to play. In terms of holding the ball up and bringing others into play, Suarez puts him to shame on that front.

I don't see alot of scope for improvement either, maybe he will improve in the air over time.

Notably, none of the best sides in Europe really play with a target man anymore, its a thing of the past, too one dimensional. A good attack these days needs to be interchangable and unpredictable.

Suarez will look even better in an attack with more clever attackers, ala Silva and Nasri at City. He has nobody on the same wavelength as him in all honesty, hence he constantly looks to be doing his own thing, sometimes even being overly greedy.

Jayob10 · 06-11-2011 08:01PM

BERBA wrote: »

to be fair we didnt bottle it against liverpool and arsenal , would love to play City and United again , krancjar and livermore played in central mid against united:eek: and modric didnt want to play an hour before city game.

7 wins in 8 , and only 4 games played at home to date.

Spurs are in form thats for sure, credit where credit it due. Grinding out wins aswell which is always a good sign.

Honestly think this could be the season Spurs consolidate themselves in the top 4, personally I think ye will be third to a Man City & Man Utd top 2.

I think its between ourselves, Arsenal and Chelsea for the 4th spot. Also if Newcastle keep their form until december i think they may add some signings in January to boost them.

YouTookMyName · 06-11-2011 08:03PM

Jayob10 wrote: »

Suarez will look even better in an attack with more clever attackers, ala Silva and Nasri at City. He has nobody on the same wavelength as him in all honesty, hence he constantly looks to be doing his own thing, sometimes even being overly greedy.

Suarez,Maxi and Kuyt played some nice stuff at the end of last season.

flahavaj · 06-11-2011 08:04PM

Jayob10 wrote: »

Spurs are in form thats for sure, credit where credit it due. Grinding out wins aswell which is always a good sign.

Honestly think this could be the season Spurs consolidate themselves in the top 4, personally I think ye will be third to a Man City & Man Utd top 2.

I think its between ourselves, Arsenal and Chelsea for the 4th spot. Also if Newcastle keep their form until december i think they may add some signings in January to boost them.

Newcastle surely won't last the pace - next three games: City. Utd. Chelsea.

Jayob10 · 06-11-2011 08:18PM

flahavaj wrote: »

Newcastle surely won't last the pace - next three games: City. Utd. Chelsea.

These games will be the litmus test. Their tails are up right now, people see it as given that they will fall away but they just keep winning. They are defensively very sound. An injury to a central defender would be disasterous though.

time will tell, i think they will make signings in January, they are after a striker. If they can make a good signing to support Ba then they could do ok.

Newcastle have a really good mix in their time right now. A few injuries could derail them though.

They are not far behind Liverpool or Arsenal right now in fairness to them.

Blatter · 06-11-2011 08:20PM

Ye'll have a great chance to beat City at Anfield in a couple of weeks IMO. They have a massive game in Naples just a few days before, so it's an ideal time for ye to be playing them.

flahavaj · 06-11-2011 08:21PM

Jayob10 wrote: »

time will tell, i think they will make signings in January, they are after a striker. If they can make a good signing to support Ba then they could do ok.

Newcastle have a really good mix in their time right now. A few injuries could derail them though.

They are not far behind Liverpool or Arsenal right now in fairness to them.

I think they're doing great but teams often rise up from midtable and hover around the top 4 for a few months. Its not going to last IMO. Their squad isn't that great and I'd imagine their own supporters are as surprised as anyone at how they've don so far.

Blatter · 06-11-2011 08:24PM

What usually happens with mid table teams that overachieve, is that they end up going through a period of underachieving and things level out. It wouldn't surprise me to see them go and lose 4/5/6 games on the bounce and be dragged back into midtable.

Very little chance that they will be anywhere near 4th spot come May.

Jayob10 · 06-11-2011 08:27PM

flahavaj wrote: »

I think they're doing great but teams often rise up from midtable and hover around the top 4 for a few months. Its not going to last IMO. Their squad isn't that great and I'd imagine their own supporters are as surprised as anyone at how they've don so far.

I honestly think outside of Man City and Man Utd, the likes of Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool and possibly Spurs will drop points fairly regularly.

IF (and its a big if) Newcastle can stay in contention until January, they will sign players to strengthen their squad. They seem to be running on confidence now.

It is unlikely though I admit.

tommyhaas · 06-11-2011 08:29PM

Jayob10 wrote: »

I honestly think outside of Man City and Man Utd, the likes of Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool and possibly Spurs will drop points fairly regularly.

IF (and its a big if) Newcastle can stay in contention until January, they will sign players to strengthen their squad. They seem to be running on confidence now.

It is unlikely though I admit.

I think Mike Ashley opening his wallet if they are still there is far more unlikely then them actually still being there come january

BERBA · 06-11-2011 08:29PM

Jayob10 wrote: »

Spurs are in form thats for sure, credit where credit it due. Grinding out wins aswell which is always a good sign.

Honestly think this could be the season Spurs consolidate themselves in the top 4, personally I think ye will be third to a Man City & Man Utd top 2.

I think its between ourselves, Arsenal and Chelsea for the 4th spot. Also if Newcastle keep their form until december i think they may add some signings in January to boost them.

can't see Chelsea finishing outside top 3 , Newcastle doing very well at the moment but should fall away , they got city united and chelsea next 3 games.

kingshankly · 06-11-2011 09:36PM

Blatter wrote: »

Ye'll have a great chance to beat City at Anfield in a couple of weeks IMO. They have a massive game in Naples just a few days before, so it's an ideal time for ye to be playing them.

they have a squad to deal with such problems

daithijjj · 06-11-2011 09:53PM

Capello has picked Johnson ahead of Richards for the England squad, our only other player in the squad is Downing.

Could have done without Johnson in the squad, how Richards didnt make it is a joke really.

Blatter · 06-11-2011 10:06PM

kingshankly wrote: »

they have a squad to deal with such problems

At least 6/7 of the players that play in the Napoli game, will play at Anfield. The whole squad will have to travel and prepare for the Napoli game anyway, whcih always makes things difficult.

Look at how they struggled v QPR after playing away from home in the CL midweek. It almost always happens every team in the CL, and I can see Liverpool taking advantage of it at Anfield.

homolumo · 06-11-2011 10:08PM

I think people are writing Carroll off way too early, he is still young and I am confident he will offer more and more. He needs to adapt more to how the team currently play but also the rest of the team have to adapt i.e. not just hit it long to him every time. Imo as fans we should be more concerned, at this point, about getting a return from Downing. He rarely finds the target, fades out of games and needs to be a creator of good play far more often.

Kess73 · 06-11-2011 11:29PM

Jayob10 wrote: »

Have to agree with ya mixednuts. People say we shouldn't talk about the fee and that it isn't Carroll's fault. Well of course it isn't Carroll's fault.

Nobody blames him for his fee. Any criticism is aimed at those in power who saw him as a worthy investment for that sum of money which he clearly is not.

My problem with Carroll is that he is not adaptable to play the kind of football Dalglish seems to want to play. In terms of holding the ball up and bringing others into play, Suarez puts him to shame on that front.

I don't see alot of scope for improvement either, maybe he will improve in the air over time.

Notably, none of the best sides in Europe really play with a target man anymore, its a thing of the past, too one dimensional. A good attack these days needs to be interchangable and unpredictable.

Suarez will look even better in an attack with more clever attackers, ala Silva and Nasri at City. He has nobody on the same wavelength as him in all honesty, hence he constantly looks to be doing his own thing, sometimes even being overly greedy.

Now I am not debating what you have said, but the scary thing is that Carroll, with 3 goals, is our second highest goalscorer in all comps this season. That really says a lot about how toothless the team, minus Suarez, has been with close to a third of the season gone.

Whilst I am throwing out stats, here is one that caught my eye today. Meireles has more assists for Liverpool this season than Downing, Kuyt, and Bellamy combined have in all comps for the club this season.

Thanx 4 The Fish · 07-11-2011 12:56AM

Kess73 wrote: »

Whilst I am throwing out stats, here is one that caught my eye today. Meireles has more assists for Liverpool this season than Downing, Kuyt, and Bellamy combined have in all comps for the club this season.

That is a worry, but bearing in mind that we do have so many shots off the woodwork, those gents would have a lot more assists if we could get them on target than the woodwork.. Hardly the fault of the assisters (or would be assisters) for the strikers inability to convert.

Mr Alan · 07-11-2011 01:04AM

Indeed, Kess that stat is somewhat flimsy & could change dramatically in the space of a match or two with ease & most likely will.

SM01 · 07-11-2011 01:05AM

Just in relation to Bellamy, I had expected him to have had alot more game-time than he's had and i'm perplexed as to why he's not played more. I think he and Suarez (and Dirk) have potential as a partnership / trio and would like to see them on the pitch together more often.

flahavaj · 07-11-2011 01:08AM

What is quite interesting is that most Liverpool fans I've spoken to (and a fair few on here) wouldn't have Downing, Henderson or Carroll in their first eleven. Thats a lot of dollar to be warming the bench.

Mr Alan · 07-11-2011 01:13AM

flahavaj wrote: »

What is quite interesting is that most Liverpool fans I've spoken to (and a fair few on here) wouldn't have Downing, Henderson or Carroll in their first eleven. Thats a lot of dollar to be warming the bench.

I think the likes of Downing in that case are more to do with form.
He started well for us but faded badly in the last few games.

I think most would like both he & Carroll in the starting 11 if they were playing like they can (Carroll has played well in his last few games).

I think if you look at the top teams in the PL (which is what we're aspiring to be again), having players bought for 15m-20m coming in & out of the team isn't in any way unusual.

Tusky · 07-11-2011 02:18AM

Mr Alan wrote: »

I think the likes of Downing in that case are more to do with form.
He started well for us but faded badly in the last few games.

I think most would like both he & Carroll in the starting 11 if they were playing like they can (Carroll has played well in his last few games).

I think Downing's good start is overemphasized. He hardly set the world alight - he was ok with the occasional v.good performance, but still didnt create or score a single goal. Downing, Henderson and Carroll do not deserve a place in the team based on their performances thus far - Bellamy, Kuyt and arguably even Maxi have shown more.

I think if you look at the top teams in the PL (which is what we're aspiring to be again), having players bought for 15m-20m coming in & out of the team isn't in any way unusual.

Not unusual when your team is littered with players in that price bracket but it is unusual in our case. Anyone bought for £16m+ simply has to be an important member of the first team - we are not strong enough to buy players at that price and leave them on the bench. Plug the gaps in the first team with quality players, and then by all means splash out on quality alternatives.

YouTookMyName · 07-11-2011 02:19AM

Agger saying what they all should be saying.

Agger: Liverpool's 'headless chickens' can forget Champions League if we carry on like this

Daniel Agger delivered a withering assessment of Liverpool’s latest wasteful Anfield performance and has warned their Champions League ambitions will evaporate with further repeats.

The Denmark defender is usually economical with his words but he did not hold back following a 0-0 draw with Swansea, a result which means Liverpool have already squandered eight points on home territory from six games this season.

‘Sometimes we looked like headless chickens running around after the ball,’ said Agger, before cryptically adding: ‘I think everyone was angry and disappointed, some more than others, but that is the way it is.’

Certainly there was no disguising Agger’s fury. Kenny Dalglish selected the same side that had dismantled West Brom seven days earlier but the display was far removed from the one they had produced in the Black Country.

Therein lies a key point. Despite the significant overhaul that took place this summer, all the old problems that have stymied Liverpool in recent years remain. They fall down against sides they should beat, there is an over-reliance on certain individuals and consistency is frustratingly elusive.

Faces may change in the dugout and on the pitch but everything seems to stay the same at Anfield. The more Liverpool fail these type of examinations, the more restless the crowd becomes. Teams arrive at the fabled old ground sensing their hosts are vulnerable.

‘We were really, really bad,’ said Agger. ‘When we got the ball we lost it straight away. We were not sharp enough. We did not press well enough. There were so many things that were really disappointing, especially after we played okay last week.

‘We have to win these types of games, no matter which kind of team we put out. We are Liverpool Football Club.

‘If we play like this, we won’t (get back into the top four). We have got to move up a level or two. I won’t say it is not possible, because it is but it is up to the players. We are the only ones who can make a difference. We definitely have to do a lot better.’

While Liverpool were poor, it would be wrong to overlook a terrific effort from Swansea. They played the better football, should have won the game had Mark Gower shown some composure when he had the Kop goal at his mercy and never flinched in the face of a late rally.

‘This is a difficult place to come, so for us to play how we played, get a clean sheet and a point was a fantastic,’ enthused Swansea’s impressive manager Brendan Rodgers. ‘I like my teams to be technical and tactically organised and understand their job, but psychologically this was important.

‘To stand there when You’ll Never Walk Alone was going around the ground was a real tear-jerker. Ultimately, I am judged to do a job and I thought psychological this point was a step forward to us.’

Interview from the DailyFail

opr · 07-11-2011 03:02AM

My god Agger is such a hero!

In The Times also - Tony Barrett

Liverpool defender claims that some of his team-mates were not as hurt as they could be by the goalless draw against Swansea

Daniel Agger claimed that Liverpool played like “chickens with no heads” in Saturday’s goalless draw with Swansea City and accused some of his team-mates of not being as hurt as much as others by the disappointing result, which meant that Kenny Dalglish’s side have won only two of their six home games this season.

“Everyone was angry and disappointed, some more than others, but that is the way it is,” the defender from Denmark said. “Sometimes we looked like headless chickens running around after the ball. It was far from good enough and I don’t know how we can drop that far from last week [a 2-0 win away to West Bromwich Albion].

“It’s puzzling. But that’s football. You can’t explain it. Our home record speaks for itself. It is far from good enough. You have to give Swansea credit because they played well but that doesn’t make our performance better. We were really, really bad. When we got the ball, we lost it straightaway.

“We were not sharp enough. We did not press well enough. There were so many things that were really disappointing, especially after we played OK last week. We know what we can do.”

Agger also warned his team-mates that unless Liverpool improve, they will fall short of their target of qualification for the Champions League. “If we play like this, we won’t do it,” he said. “We have got to move up a level or two. I won’t say it is not possible, because it is, but it is up to the players. We are the only ones who can make a difference. We definitely have to do a lot better.

“We have to win these types of games, no matter which kind of team we put out. We are Liverpool Football Club. We have to win our home games.”

Opr

El Inho · 07-11-2011 03:02AM

if that interview is to be believed (which i do) i think Agger is bang on.

Maybe it's a little bit of new transfer syndrome...thinking that this isnt your home club, why should you care etc...carroll and henderson from their boyhood clubs...

bellamy loves the pool...life long fan...and you can see it in his game. suarez loves footy and winning and scoring...you see it in his game.

adam kinda splits the class a little. depends what day you get him.

think bellamy and suarez should start as our two up top...id be giving kuyt and maxi games on the wings, with lucas and adam in the middle until stevie is fit. that way you can have the lads on the bench, not getting their bonuses for shockin displays. back line should be el toro (fantastic man!) johnson when fit with agger/skrtle and carra. coates im hoping will be knocking on carras door by xmas.

im tired of armchair managers...and being one myself...but kenny is the man...just think he might have to take a harder stance with a few of these lads.

joe123 · 07-11-2011 03:14AM

Fair play to Agger. Would love to know who he's on about though. Without question I'd drop Carroll and Henderson, bring in kuyt and Bellamy.

Whoever Agger is on about need a serious talking to. If your not bothered about dropping points to Swansea something is wrong.

Chucky the tree · 07-11-2011 03:28AM

flahavaj wrote: »

What is quite interesting is that most Liverpool fans I've spoken to (and a fair few on here) wouldn't have Downing, Henderson or Carroll in their first eleven. Thats a lot of dollar to be warming the bench.

Well plenty of us didnt want them signed in the first place so it's not that surprising. Henderson should never have been signed as an immediate starter, really have no idea what Kenny is playing at with him.

Jayob10 · 07-11-2011 03:36AM

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Well plenty of us didnt want them signed in the first place so it's not that surprising. Henderson should never have been signed as an immediate starter, really have no idea what Kenny is playing at with him.

Very interesting comments by Agger to say the least. I doubt he is talking about Henderson, by all accounts he is one of the last to leave the training ground. Always putting in extra practice, it hasn't shown in his game yet but he is supposedly the consumate professional.
My money would be on Downing not really giving a monkeys.

Just a hunch

Jesus Wept · 07-11-2011 04:26AM

Agger for captain.

Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 - Mod Note 4153

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