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Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 - Mod Note 4153

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21,235 ✭✭✭✭flahavaj


    rarnes1 wrote: »
    And btw, ye were talking about City 4-4-2 with Silva on the wing.

    Silva is hardly a conventional winger! The lad pops up everywhere

    It does demonstrate that with good quality players 442 can still be a highly effective and flexible formation.

    Even if you think City didn't/don't play it, writing it off as a formation across the board is ridiculous.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,361 ✭✭✭YouTookMyName


    flahavaj wrote: »
    Perhaps but for £20m you would expect a little more end product.

    Perhaps.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,787 ✭✭✭Jayob10


    rarnes1 wrote: »
    Downing gets by his player quite often but then......final ball is brutal.


    And btw, ye were talking about City 4-4-2 with Silva on the wing.

    Silva is hardly a conventional winger! The lad pops up everywhere

    these are the kind of players we need to find, intelligent players who will link midfield and attack. Downing is a good conventional winger but as an opponent you will know what you have to defend against in essence.

    In recent times we have had Garcia and Benayoun and dare I say it we knew back then we needed to upgrade on them but we have gone backwards in that we have not even replaced them.

    Its not easy to unearth unknown talents of the calibre of a David Silva, you really do need to spend big. And look to the continent.

    I'd love to see us move heaven and earth to sign Stevan Jovetic in January in order to provide a bit of guile to our attack. Another player of this ilk should be targetted in the summer, Hazard if possible but I do think its unrealistic.

    Jovetic is a realistic target though I think, cracking player.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,560 ✭✭✭✭Kess73


    Jayob10 wrote: »
    these are the kind of players we need to find, intelligent players who will link midfield and attack. Downing is a good conventional winger but as an opponent you will know what you have to defend against in essence.

    In recent times we have had Garcia and Benayoun and dare I say it we knew back then we needed to upgrade on them but we have gone backwards in that we have not even replaced them.

    Its not easy to unearth unknown talents of the calibre of a David Silva, you really do need to spend big. And look to the continent.

    I'd love to see us move heaven and earth to sign Stevan Jovetic in January in order to provide a bit of guile to our attack. Another player of this ilk should be targetted in the summer, Hazard if possible but I do think its unrealistic.

    Jovetic is a realistic target though I think, cracking player.


    Good player and one we were linked with two seasons ago under Rafa. He would not come cheap though as he signed a new contract this season and has almost five years to go on that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,787 ✭✭✭Jayob10


    Kess73 wrote: »
    Good player and one we were linked with two seasons ago under Rafa. He would not come cheap though as he signed a new contract this season and has almost five years to go on that.

    wasn't that one of Rafa's claims, that the money he received for Alonso was supposed to go towards Aquilani + Jovetic?? I have to say I find that a bit hard to believe really. I just don't think Rafa would have targetted both always thought it would be one or the other.

    Jovetic would be pricey but I think he fits the profile, he is young, technically gifted, a goal threat, interchangable in attack and capable of being a playmaker in a more advanced role too.

    Imagine an attack consisting of:

    ---Hazard---Jovetic--Suarez

    AN Other

    Note to self: Have to stop these fantasy line ups :p

    And just for reference the "AN Other" would be Fernando Llorente.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 417 ✭✭Berti Vogts


    Jen Chang from Sports Illustrated suggested on twitter yesterday that Marco Reus from Borussia Monchengladbach is the type of player Liverpool need

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8TxAC5CYfY


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,787 ✭✭✭Jayob10


    I think champions league football will be key to landing german players who have ambitions of being key players in their international squad.

    Unless its a top level club with Champions league aspirations then German players tend to stay put. A bit like English players, albeit English players barely ever move abroad.

    Hummels, Goetze, Schweingsteiger et al will only move if its to a club challenging on all fronts.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭Phoenix Park


    flahavaj wrote: »
    Downing's end product has been literally nil so far.

    12 games. 0 goals. 0 assists.

    There was a big article on here a week ago (and Anfield Index-Opta Stats) one that showed he has a high crossing accuracy..its those on the end of the crosses that are not putting the chances away.
    He did look poor yesterday again to me though.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭Phoenix Park


    Jayob10 wrote: »
    wasn't that one of Rafa's claims, that the money he received for Alonso was supposed to go towards Aquilani + Jovetic?? I have to say I find that a bit hard to believe really. I just don't think Rafa would have targetted both always thought it would be one or the other.

    Jovetic would be pricey but I think he fits the profile, he is young, technically gifted, a goal threat, interchangable in attack and capable of being a playmaker in a more advanced role too.

    Imagine an attack consisting of:

    ---Hazard---Jovetic--Suarez

    AN Other

    Note to self: Have to stop these fantasy line ups :p

    And just for reference the "AN Other" would be Fernando Llorente.

    By the way, Jovetic signed a new deal with Fiorentina last wek i think, 5 years :(


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,909 ✭✭✭✭whatawaster


    I think Downing has been fairly shocking so far in his all-round play, and I don't care how many times he has hit the post.
    He rarely beats his full-back, just thank god we have Luis offering a threat down the left flank.

    Adam and Lucas never isn't/wasn't/never will be an acceptable combination in the middle of the park. Telling that the only class midfield outfit we've come up against this season (Tottenham) completely over-ran us in midfield.
    Gerrard/Lucas/Adam would be an improvement, but we need physicality in the centre, someone with pace and strength.

    I still think Carroll will come good and will get 15+ goals this season. And I think him and Suarez will get better and better together.

    Liverpool's problem is the same as it's been since McManaman left. We don't have any pace/creativity in wide areas. Until we address that issue, we will still struggle to break teams down


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,361 ✭✭✭YouTookMyName


    A Fulham win would certainly take away some of the misery felt this weekend.

    Edit: Balls.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21,235 ✭✭✭✭flahavaj


    A Fulham win would certainly take away some of the misery felt this weekend.

    Edit: Balls.

    Right on cue they score an OG.:pac:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,014 ✭✭✭kingshankly


    downing has been crap this talk about him being unlucky is nonsense (you'd swear there was someone moving the posts). bar the first two weeks he has contributed nothing what so ever for a 20 million pound international winger this is not acceptable, would much rather see Bellamy at this stage .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,013 ✭✭✭yayamark


    I was at the game yday, first game in 2 seasons thank you economy

    First thing - YNWA was sang brilliantly really enjoy that at anfield but after that the atmophere was gone no singing, no crack nothing, first time ive ever experienced it.

    2nd thing Midfield was a joke today, Adam is either un fit or doesnt care. He is supposed to be creating stuff for our forwards but he refused to move towards the box with the ball. Instead he seemed to hang with the ball and wait till Swansea arranged them selves with 5 at the back and sure then it was too late. He loves trying the thru ball/barcelona pass but it rarely comes off. No urgency and very predictible.

    3rd - Carroll and Suarez do not look like a partnership, they dont know what each other are doing or want. I expected to see Carroll geton the ball and see suarez run off him and use his speed but they were miles apart from each other. Carroll for his size needs to get stuck in more.

    4th Jordan H is not ready yet he needs a more expierenced player like gerard beside him to be nurturing him in game. Adams isnt that player. Dowing i dont know what he was at today terrible. Jordan H tried but was poor but at least he tried. Lucas was ok but thats because his job is to stop the oppisition coming thru, he is going to foul more than anyone bit i accept that. i wonder what sort of a player hed be like going forward?

    5th the defence was good enough today enrique is extremely fast attacking on the ball but reminds me of a K Kilbane can only run straight. id love to see him cut in sometime with the ball. maybe a bit harsh on him.

    Anyways it was depressing coming out of the stadium, it was like we lost.
    Realistically 4th place is beyond us.

    YNWA


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,361 ✭✭✭YouTookMyName


    From RAWK, thought it was a good read and some important points.
    Much has been said about our yesterday's performance and it's been frustrating. Some of the tactics and selections have raised a few eye brows, but the biggest disappointment for me has been the change of attacking style compared to the high standard games we played in the end of last season..namely Man City at Anfield and Fulham at Craven Cottage.

    When Carroll was knocking those crosses down to the box yesterday when we had absolutely no one there and no link between midfield and attack, I was reminded of those 2 spectacular performances which in my opinion are the best football we've played since the end of 08-09 season.

    We were scoring for fun a few months ago, yet we tend to struggle to score these days...Why is that? When watching extended highlights of those games, I decided to take snap shots as it truly and very effectively shows the difference between Liverpool of yesterday and Liverpool of April-May of 2011.

    ktcgo.png
    This is 30 seconds in at Craven Cottage with Suarez breaking through. Notice the amount of runners we are getting into the box and giving Suarez options of whether to pass/shoot. Kuyt is almost shoulder to shoulder with their CB, Raul is lurking just behind the box as well (and gets in the box in the end) and Maxi which seem to far behind in this snapshot, is actually the player scoring from that move 5-6 seconds after that since he continues his run find a space in the box and finishes well. Lack of runners from midfield in behind the strikers was so frustrating to watch yesterday it was unbelievable.

    Here is another example. For the second goal in the same game:
    2gt4293.png
    This is just after Johnson has delivered his cross into the box. You can see Meireles is in the box already, and Suarez is joining as well...so even if the Fulham defender manages to intercept the cross (that he couldn't in real life) there is a lo of chance that the ball will fall to one of our players in tons of space available, because we've attacked the space around their box perfectly.


    Now, 2 quick snapshots for the move that resulted in our 3rd goal.
    vmr5mr.png

    Perfect pass and move play. Lucas, Maxi, Spearing and Suarez are quite narrow there and you'll see Lucas moving into the space between Fulham midfielders with Spearing coming into the space Lucas is at in this picture, while the balls gets distributed to the right. Meireles , Suarez and Maxi all attack the box when Shwarzer doesn't expect Kuyt to just shoot when this snapshot happens:
    2hozkus.png
    It doesn't show Maxi and Suarez but they are in the box, occupying defenders and waiting for a possible pass/rebound. Spearing is well positioned in the middle so in case the ball is intercepted and they counter, we'll have enough cover.


    2 More examples in build up of Dirk's goal vs City:
    1zbe89z.png
    This is absolutely fantastic. Suarez with the ball and 3 PLAYERS IN FRONT OF HIM. Each running toward one direction to make themselves available for a pass, and confuse City defenders. The ball ends up with Raul in this case. City defenders can't risk and and try to block Suarez since those 3 LFC players ahead of Luis could massively take advantage if the killer pass made at the right time. I can't recall Luis attacking opposition with the ball this season and having 3 attackers (from his own team) ahead of him as passing options.

    and finally the goal.
    21mgguw.png
    Once again we've got plenty of bodies into the box. It shows Luis and Andy, but Fabio is outta the frame, Spearing in tons of space just behind the box...and this time Lucas protecting the midfield in case they made an interception and countered (just like Jay was doing it in build up move to Kuyt's goal at Fulham)




    All of those snapshots and build ups had a few things in common:
    1) Dynamism of players which gives options to the person in possession.
    2) All players wanted the ball at SPACE or FEET....at the moment 90% of our passes are to feet since we play "Pass and stay" as opposed to "Pass and move"
    3) Crowding the box. Eying those incomplete blocks or interceptions by opposition defenders, a lot of presence and causing havoc by movement in the box.

    Unfortunately, at the moment...we don't hav any of the 3...and 3 players who were at heart and soul of all those brilliant plays aren't playing for us anymore. The Portuegese Lampard is in London....Jay and Maxi play only once a month in CC, and have played 35 minutes in the league combined.

    I hope KK gets the squad to watch those 2 games over and over again, and goes through the importance of movement and attacking the box. Hell, I hope Kenny himself watches it first !


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    yayamark wrote: »

    5th the defence was good enough today enrique is extremely fast attacking on the ball but reminds me of a K Kilbane can only run straight. id love to see him cut in sometime with the ball. maybe a bit harsh on him.

    YNWA

    Ah, come off it :pac:

    Along with Cole he's up there with being the best LB in the league.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,100 ✭✭✭tommyhaas


    rarnes1 wrote: »
    Ah, come off it :pac:

    Along with Cole he's up there with being the best LB in the league.

    What about Baines? He's better then both over the last year IMO


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21,235 ✭✭✭✭flahavaj


    tommyhaas wrote: »
    What about Baines? He's better then both over the last year IMO

    Going forward maybe. Defensively he is not quite as good as he is offensively.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,595 ✭✭✭Giruilla


    I'm loving Carroll this season.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,361 ✭✭✭YouTookMyName


    Giruilla wrote: »
    I'm loving Carroll this season.

    954-not-sure-if-serious.jpg


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,595 ✭✭✭Giruilla


    /QUOTE]

    I enjoy his style of play.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    Think he's a United fan so he is being serious.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,432 ✭✭✭willmunny1990


    Giruilla wrote: »
    /QUOTE]

    I enjoy his style of play.

    What opposition fan wouldn't like his style of play?:P


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Leiva


    rarnes1 wrote: »

    We've had 33 on target and only scored 3 times in the last three home games. That's very odd I think everyone will agree.

    See it's just me but I don't care much for statistics .

    I just want quality players at the club .

    See if I did care for statistics this one would really get up my hole;
    Spurs tonight had only 3 shots on goal and scored 3 goals .
    That's 30 shots less than us with the same return .

    Now as I said the "statistic" doesn't bother me because it's all down to the quality of player(s)in front of goal ... that's were we have failed .

    Statistics change quality stays .
    It's crazy to think that God forbid Suarez gets injured tomorrow then we are totally fooked for scoring options..No exaggeration , fact .

    I know the past few days I have come across as a right moany bastard but it's just the time has elapsed for me when it comes to Andy Carroll.
    I said I would give it time before I judge him , but he has started most games and has not shown one sign of quality be it - scoring , assists , passing , awareness , tactics .. Nada !

    I'm sorry I just dont see were this potential is gonna come from as he hasnt shown one bit of it .

    People go on about him during yesterday's game saying " he headed down crosses but no one there " .... He done it twice , big swing .
    The Swansea centre forward Danny Graham put him to shame FFS.

    He is just not good enough and never will be ... sooner the better people (inc management) see it the quicker we move on from the massive mistake .

    Again I never mentioned the fee which had nothing to do with Andy Carroll . I'm discussing his ability as a top drawer EPL striker to play along side the likes of Luis Suarez.

    Rant over .


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,299 ✭✭✭BERBA


    mixednuts wrote: »
    ;
    Spurs tonight had only 3 shots on goal and scored 3 goals .
    That's 30 shots less than us with the same return .

    Thats what its all about mixednuts;)


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,006 ✭✭✭donfers


    in spite of yesterday I still think we have a decent chance of fourth, i think the two manchester sides will pull away and unless AVB completely screws up chelsea they should be safe in third, so it's between us, spurs and arsenal for fourth as I am very confident that newcastle will fade away despite a fine start

    we have played well in most games this season and dominated in almost all of them bar spurs away when we went down to 9, we also have visited spurs and arsenal already and both must visit anfield which could be absolutely key, we have dropped silly points, missed a hatful of chances, hit the woodwork numerous times, had gerrard out for almost the whole season and still have 19 points off 11, our luck will turn and more chances will be taken


    you look at arsenal, a mini revival at the moment but still major doubts about their defense

    then spurs, probably the most overrated team around in my opinion, I have never seen any of the old top 4 sides ever outplayed by a side outside the top 4 as spurs were today, fulham absolutely murdered them, it was as blatant a case of daylight robbery as you'll ever see and they were even allowed 2 goalkeepers at the end with kyle walker handling on the ground and nothing done about it, their luck will turn too because by god that was the luckiest three points i have ever seen in the premier league and it was an incredible eye-opener too as spurs were badly exposed in this game, and as I said never have I seen a so-called top premier league side so comprehensively outplayed by someone outside the top 4 - so again i'd say players like bale and modric get a lot of media attention and harry loves to get his mates in the press to big up his team but they are nowhere near as good as people think they are, a good attacking force yes but incredibly fragile and suspect under pressure - they'll bottle it if a good team takes them on

    so in summary, i still think we have every chance of fourth, we just need lady luck to turn our way once in a while and we've every chance, spurs must have used up enough luck for one season in that fulham game so let's hope things even themselves out, a depressing result yesterday but we're not out of this by a long shot just yet


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,299 ✭✭✭BERBA


    donfers wrote: »
    they'll bottle it if a good team takes them on

    to be fair we didnt bottle it against liverpool and arsenal , would love to play City and United again , krancjar and livermore played in central mid against united:eek: and modric didnt want to play an hour before city game.

    7 wins in 8 , and only 4 games played at home to date.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    donfers wrote: »
    in spite of yesterday I still think we have a decent chance of fourth, i think the two manchester sides will pull away and unless AVB completely screws up chelsea they should be safe in third, so it's between us, spurs and arsenal for fourth as I am very confident that newcastle will fade away despite a fine start

    we have played well in most games this season and dominated in almost all of them bar spurs away when we went down to 9, we also have visited spurs and arsenal already and both must visit anfield which could be absolutely key, we have dropped silly points, missed a hatful of chances, hit the woodwork numerous times, had gerrard out for almost the whole season and still have 19 points off 11, our luck will turn and more chances will be taken


    you look at arsenal, a mini revival at the moment but still major doubts about their defense

    then spurs, probably the most overrated team around in my opinion, I have never seen any of the old top 4 sides ever outplayed by a side outside the top 4 as spurs were today, fulham absolutely murdered them, it was as blatant a case of daylight robbery as you'll ever see and they were even allowed 2 goalkeepers at the end with kyle walker handling on the ground and nothing done about it, their luck will turn too because by god that was the luckiest three points i have ever seen in the premier league and it was an incredible eye-opener too as spurs were badly exposed in this game, and as I said never have I seen a so-called top premier league side so comprehensively outplayed by someone outside the top 4 - so again i'd say players like bale and modric get a lot of media attention and harry loves to get his mates in the press to big up his team but they are nowhere near as good as people think they are, a good attacking force yes but incredibly fragile and suspect under pressure - they'll bottle it if a good team takes them on

    so in summary, i still think we have every chance of fourth, we just need lady luck to turn our way once in a while and we've every chance, spurs must have used up enough luck for one season in that fulham game so let's hope things even themselves out, a depressing result yesterday but we're not out of this by a long shot just yet

    In summary, we play well and get held at home, they play crap way and win.

    My money is still on them. It's not the players or the stats, it's pure and simple workrate and attitude. They get players into the box, we don't. They have a focused, determien attitude, we don't.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21,235 ✭✭✭✭flahavaj


    The race for 4th looks fascinating now. A month ago I thought it was Liverpool's to lose, now Spurs and Arsenal are right back in the game. It will chage so many times over the coure of the season - Liverpool have Chelse and City next two games which will tell a lot as to where they really are at the moment.


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 34,960 CMod ✭✭✭✭ShamoBuc


    flahavaj wrote: »
    The race for 4th looks fascinating now. A month ago I thought it was Liverpool's to lose, now Spurs and Arsenal are right back in the game. It will chage so many times over the coure of the season - Liverpool have Chelse and City next two games which will tell a lot as to where they really are at the moment.

    I don't think it will actually. I expect far better performances against those two. It's the 'average' teams that we cannot raise our game for. We should be playing with a far greater urgency/vitality for games like yesterday. Even if we win both those games, we would probably drop points in the next game with a slacker performance.


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