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Advantages/ Disadvantages of Joining The Reserves before Full Time AGS

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    #122
    wiger toods
    Closed Accounts Posts: 813 ✭✭✭wiger toods


    Hi all!

    How long does it take to complete the garda reserve training?


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    #123
    tweedledee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 435 ✭✭tweedledee


    The numbers who drop out in the early days is very little.
    I also know several GR who barely passed their Junior Cert, failed the Fulltime Garda tests and interviews,failed medical and were accepted into Reserves???????? can you explain that?? The selection criteria for GR is a lot less formal than for Fultime service.


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    #124
    kerry4sam
    Registered Users Posts: 15,127 ✭✭✭✭kerry4sam


    tweedledee wrote: »
    The numbers who drop out in the early days is very little. I also know several GR who barely passed their Junior Cert!!

    :confused:

    what does this have to do with anything?


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    #125
    tweedledee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 435 ✭✭tweedledee


    To join fulltime service there are educational requirements. To join the reserves the requirements are a lot lower, thats all I meant.


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    #126
    kerry4sam
    Registered Users Posts: 15,127 ✭✭✭✭kerry4sam


    tweedledee wrote: »
    The numbers who drop out in the early days is very little.
    I also know several GR who barely passed their Junior Cert, failed the Fulltime Garda tests and interviews,failed medical and were accepted into Reserves???????? can you explain that?? The selection criteria for GR is a lot less formal than for Fultime service.

    you decided to edit your post, okay.

    explain what? explain something you are claiming in here without any actual proof or evidence :confused: Are you serious?

    You say the selection criteria is "a lot less formal than for the Fulltime service" well then tell that to the thousands who are unsuccessful for the reserves tweedledee. Not everyone who applies for the Garda Reserves are successful.
    That is a fact! a known fact that HQ will tell you Monday morning if you like.

    Take another look at the info booklets on publicjobs to educate yourself also on the educational requirements for both again tweedledee.


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    #127
    Hill St Blue
    Registered Users Posts: 258 ✭✭Hill St Blue


    tweedledee wrote: »
    The numbers who drop out in the early days is very little.
    I also know several GR who barely passed their Junior Cert, failed the Fulltime Garda tests and interviews,failed medical and were accepted into Reserves???????? can you explain that?? The selection criteria for GR is a lot less formal than for Fultime service.

    Well, there are also well educated Garda Reserves who did complete the Leaving Cert (the overwhelming, majority I'd imagine before you tar them all with the un-educated brush! Tbh, that just smacks of lazy sensationalism in my opinion!) and hundreds of Reserves with Further Education Certs, Degrees, Masters' and PhD's. I'm sure you'll acknowledge that these people meet the standards that are required to apply for a full time job with AGS.
    I agree that whilst some parts of the selection process for the Garda Reserve may be less formal than than that for the full time service (the initial aptidude test and fitness test spring to mind...they are different, but the background checks and medical, for example are exactly the same) it's pretty obvious that Reserves who do not meet the current full time requirements, will not be accepted anyway. The Reserves you speak of who have 'barely passed their Junior Cert' will not get through the selection process due to educational limitations, and thus will never become full time Gardai.
    You also ask an explanation as to why there are members of the GR who have previously failed the recruitment process for the full time and yet got into the Reserves. There are many reasons why this may have happened (far too many permutations to outline here) but here are a couple of valid reasons...(and hypothetical scenarios)

    1. A person fails the aptitude test for the full time service. Said person decides to work on improving his/her aptitude test scores ahead of the next recruitment campaign (various courses/seminars available.) He/she works hard, and dramatically improves (mock) test scores. Come the next campaign, said person is better prepared for the aptitude test and should get through this part of the recruitment process. Since there has'nt been a fresh recruitment campaign in several years, he/she decides to join the Reserves and passes the selection process. Here you have a person who technically failed the fulltime Garda test, is now in the Reserves and who, come the next campaign, will reapply for the full time.

    2. A person fails the medical due to a high BMI and eyesight issues. Said person works hard on fitness and diet and lowers his / her BMI to within the acceptable level. This person also decides to have lazer eyesight surgery to correct the problem and afterwards has perfect vision. Since there has been no fresh recruitment campaign in several years, this person decides to apply for the Reserves while waiting for the next one. He / she now passes the medical (which is the same for full timers or reserves remember) and is a successful applicant. Here you have a person who technically failed the fulltime Garda medical examination, who is now in the Reserves and who, come the next campaign, will reapply for the full time

    Just because someone in the Reserves has failed a part of the full time application process does'nt necessarily mean they're not suited to a career as a Garda in time. Everyone deserves the chance to learn from mistakes and improve themselves in order to achieve their goals. I personally know quite a few people who failed various parts of the full time selection process and had to go at it again (if at first you don't succeed and all that!) who now are fine Gardai. They worked hard to reeducate / upskill / etc and were eventually successful. What's different about them is that there were frequent recruitment campaigns at the time and they had another chance to apply before too long. If it was now, they'd be in limbo like the rest of us, and many would be in the Reserves.


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    #128
    tweedledee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 435 ✭✭tweedledee


    Wow very twitchy people here,very quick to start getting defensive. Ye guys read sooooo much into one sentence.
    I'm not knocking the GR at all,personally I think they are about saving money and giving the public the impression that there are plenty of Gardai on the streets. GR are very limited in what they can and can't do.
    Its great that people want to give their free time to the state and try and make a difference.
    I admire that but the selection process is vastly different for both. Selection for fulltime service is much harder and more in-depth than GR. Of course there are excellent, well educated GR, I didn't say there wasn't. And obviously not everybody gets accepted in the GR, just like in Fulltime service.Not everybody can pass all the tests, but its waaaaay easier to get into the reserve than fulltime(when they were recruiting).
    But saying that the selection for both services is the same is wrong.
    Again I'll say, I respect people for wanting to give up their free time.


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    #129
    Hill St Blue
    Registered Users Posts: 258 ✭✭Hill St Blue


    tweedledee wrote: »
    Wow very twitchy people here,very quick to start getting defensive. Ye guys read sooooo much into one sentence.
    I'm not knocking the GR at all,personally I think they are about saving money and giving the public the impression that there are plenty of Gardai on the streets. GR are very limited in what they can and can't do.
    Its great that people want to give their free time to the state and try and make a difference.
    I admire that but the selection process is vastly different for both. Selection for fulltime service is much harder and more in-depth than GR. Of course there are excellent, well educated GR, I didn't say there wasn't. And obviously not everybody gets accepted in the GR, just like in Fulltime service.Not everybody can pass all the tests, but its waaaaay easier to get into the reserve than fulltime(when they were recruiting).
    But saying that the selection for both services is the same is wrong.
    Again I'll say, I respect people for wanting to give up their free time.

    Ah no, I would'nt see it as being 'twitchy' tweedledee...just putting forward a different viewpoint which I consider factual, that's all (such is the nature of debate!)
    Regarding one point of your post, I never said that the selection process for both GR's and full timers was the same but only pointed out that various elements are exactly the same (eg background checks and medical) and other elements are not (eg aptitude test.) What I said is not in fact 'wrong' (when I am wrong I happily admit it, but this is'nt the case here!)


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    #130
    itsallgood
    Closed Accounts Posts: 587 ✭✭✭itsallgood


    You need to relax. I know a Garda that wasn't accepted to reserves while at the same time was accepted into full time. He applied for reserved in case he didn't get through full time process and wanted something to help him in the future.
    There are different criteria for both and all your bickering won't change that.


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    #131
    gardapa
    Registered Users Posts: 101 ✭✭gardapa


    The selection for both is different but the criteria in the interview is the same. IMO anyone can pass both aptitude tests with a bit of preparation. Candidates normally fail at stage 2, interview.

    Depending how the person performs on the day will affect how the interview goes and we all know we can have off days. Also it depends on who is on the interview board and what their personality is like so if we don't click with them we will fail at this stage. Just because someone fails the reserve selection doesn't mean they will fail garda selection and vice versa.


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    #132
    kerry4sam
    Registered Users Posts: 15,127 ✭✭✭✭kerry4sam


    itsallgood wrote: »
    You need to relax. I know a Garda that wasn't accepted to reserves while at the same time was accepted into full time. He applied for reserved in case he didn't get through full time process and wanted something to help him in the future.
    There are different criteria for both and all your bickering won't change that.

    Bickering on here changes absolutely nothing, you are right there. I do admire that persons' dedication itsallgood.


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    #133
    Dan1994
    Registered Users Posts: 79 ✭✭Dan1994


    tweedledee wrote: »
    The numbers who drop out in the early days is very little.
    I also know several GR who barely passed their Junior Cert, failed the Fulltime Garda tests and interviews,failed medical and were accepted into Reserves???????? can you explain that?? The selection criteria for GR is a lot less formal than for Fultime service.


    and what you think your great because your on a list at the bottom of some filing cabinet in the public apps office


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    #134
    Hooch
    Registered Users Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭Hooch


    Dan1994 wrote: »
    and what you think your great because your on a list at the bottom of some filing cabinet in the public apps office

    Dan my friend it is quiet obvious you are a troll........however take this as a warning.....I won't infract you this time. Next time however......i'll just ban you. I don't particularly like trolls railroading a thread and trying to rise those on the list

    Warmest regards

    Hooch


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    #135
    sagemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭sagemaster


    The situation when recruitment for AGS proper (professional full time) begins again, probably in a few years, will be a return to the situation that existed in the 80's and 90's where there will be massive interest from highly qualified and motivated applicants in the tens of thousands. (good job in bad times bad job in good times)
    This will reverse the trend in recent competitions where the Dept of Justice had difficulty in recruiting serious proper applicants.
    Some recuitment drives during the late 90's and 00's didn't attract the correct numbers or caliber of applicant. (Celtic Tiger Years)
    As a result the entrance criteria was lowered such as the height requirement, the medical and fitness exam, educational qualifications and the Irish requirement.
    There was a lowering of the bar in regard to recuitment and this can be verified and acceded to by Garda members on the ground...any with more than 10 years service will agree in principal to this argument. The fitness test in Templemore is a joke compared to when it was a proper test that could see you out the door of the college, packing your bags and goodbye if you failed it !!!!
    These recent members were rushed through the training process in Templemore in groups of 300 to 350 at a time, many never residing in the accomadation at the college instead living up the town in digs. Absolute joke!! The exam process at the college was simplified and dumbed down with a more streamlined and multiple choice exam system introduced to churn out recruits to help McDowel achieve in 15000 Garda promise.
    All analytical study of law and policing was effectively abolished resulting in recruits leaving the college with inferior training.
    Not their fault admittedly, but there was a conception that if the bar wasn't lowered and standards dropped recuit numbers wouldn't be achieved.
    The training was simplified, and this has proved evident on the ground with extreme frustration among supervisory middle management having to deal with younger members unable to cope with basic policing and operational matters.
    Some of these incompetents have 5 and 6 years service and bizzarly regard themselves in their own minds as 'experienced' and 'seasoned' Gardai.
    There is a internal reference to them as 'McDowels Muppets'.. 'Funsize Gardai' and 'McDowels Army' ....and there effectively would be a split between these, and Gardai who were recruited before the 'accellerated recuitment' of the noughties...
    This relates directly with the Reserves, as the training Reservists recieve is a cut down version of the idiotic incompetent instruction given to the recently recruited. These are the same Gardai Who are invariably working with the Reserves.... Most don't care enough to be concerned and complacency is a big problem, as it wasn't instilled during training, such was the rush to get them out the gates in Templemore..!!!
    What compounds this issue also, is the perception of some of these junior members, that they are in fact, 'senior' or 'experienced' because they have spent 4 or 5 years on regular policing and feel that's their apprenticeship served and expect lateral promotion into specialised units, office jobs and detective positions when really and truly the haven't got what it takes at all.
    What Garda Reserves are meeting in the large stations where they voulinteer are these junior Gardai who were rushed through Templemore in a hurry, they don't know the job, and most of what's going on is completely over their heads.
    There are of course exceptions, some good young Gardai out there, but the situation is there was a considerable lowering of the bar in the rush to get the Garda force up to 15000...
    What is going to happen now with the recuitment and promotion embargo is increased frustration with Garda reserves who want to become 'Fully Properly Trained Full Time Members' unable to get in and leaving the Reserve as they were told it would help them get in and they feel they were sold a pup... And Full time members, some of whom think there vastly experienced!!!...unable to get promoted... This will lead to disharmony and loss of moral eventually.....


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    #136
    sagemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭sagemaster


    C-J wrote: »
    I agree somewhat. Parts of your argument are absurd, not to the mention the grammar and spelling inconsistencies that make it hard to decipher. 'Conception' surely is perception?. 'Moral' surely morale? You seem to have a major problem with those who entered the college during accelerated recruitment; believe me if any one of those members was not up to job they would have left by now and their incapacilities sniffed out by ninja reserves!!!

    Good you agree... I can't understand how you are having such a problem with deciphering the content of the post.
    Why do you think incompetent members would leave of their own accord??
    What parts of my argument are absurd?
    What do you mean by 'incapacilities' where did you get this word???
    I don't believe you simply that they would have have left, support you argument.
    What are incapacilities??
    With 120 hours training I don't think ant Reserves are up to Ninja standard!!
    Come on in all seriousness, 120 hours training.. What a joke!!


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    #137
    P.O.S
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16 ✭P.O.S


    What Garda Reserves are meeting in the large stations where they voulinteer are these junior Gardai who were rushed through Templemore in a hurry, they don't know the job, and most of what's going on is completely over their heads.
    There are of course exceptions, some good young Gardai out there
    What is going to happen now with the recuitment and promotion embargo is increased frustration with Garda reserves who want to become 'Fully Properly Trained Full Time Members' unable to get in and leaving the Reserve as they were told it would help them get in and they feel they were sold a pup... And Full time members, some of whom think there vastly experienced!!!...unable to get promoted... This will lead to disharmony and loss of moral eventually.....


    I agree with you sagemaster there are good gardai out there,the same way there's good garda reserve out there but you seem to be putting all reserves on a pedal stool..some reserves only joined the reserves because they were unsuccessful applying for the gardai during accelerated recruitment.So then you insinuate that young full time members are incapable of showing Reserves the ropes because everything is over their heads when some of the reserves themselves couldn't get into the full time.


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    #138
    Galway Elvis
    Registered Users Posts: 108 ✭✭Galway Elvis


    C-J wrote: »
    Parts of your argument are absurd, not to the mention the grammar and spelling inconsistencies that make it hard to decipher.
    The argument is very well made and I had no problem understanding the overall point.
    C-J wrote: »
    grammar and spelling inconsistencies... incapacilities
    ??????????
    C-J wrote: »
    believe me if any one of those members was not up to job they would have left by now
    Factually incorrect.
    C-J wrote: »
    You seem to have a major problem with those who entered the college during accelerated recruitment;
    I took this point as the poster having a problem with the process and the end result of what was comming out of Templemore and not the indivduals entering there.

    C-J wrote: »
    sniffed out by ninja reserves!!!
    If you had ever spent any time in uniform you would very quickly realise that Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder would be able to see the Regular Members of AGS that are incompetitent and lazy.
    sagemaster wrote: »
    With 120 hours training I don't think ant Reserves are up to Ninja standard!!
    Come on in all seriousness, 120 hours training.. What a joke!!

    Reserves are not ment to replace Regular members of AGS but to supplement them from time to time. Ninja standard not required.
    The 120 hours training is only the starting point. After that it is a work in progress. Far from ideal but the whole project is still very young.
    sagemaster wrote: »
    The training was simplified, and this has proved evident on the ground with extreme frustration among supervisory middle management having to deal with younger members unable to cope with basic policing and operational matters.
    Most don't care enough to be concerned and complacency is a big problem, as it wasn't instilled during training, such was the rush to get them out the gates in Templemore..!!!
    What compounds this issue also, is the perception of some of these junior members, that they are in fact, 'senior' or 'experienced' because they have spent 4 or 5 years on regular policing and feel that's their apprenticeship served and expect lateral promotion into specialised units, office jobs and detective positions when really and truly the haven't got what it takes at all.
    I have seen this first hand. The worrying effect this has is the pressure the majority of very competitent and committed Regular members are under to keep the ever increasing volume of work done. Whatever little help I and many others can give is done gladly and without the potential advantages to some hypothetical future job prospects being the primary concern.


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    #139
    P.O.S
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16 ✭P.O.S


    Galway Elvis wrote: »
    [QUOTEWhatever little help I and many others can give is done gladly and without the potential advantages to some hypothetical future job prospects being the primary concern.

    Galway elvis I presume you mean by the above that most people join reserves without their main aim being to join full time?My opinion is that, its the reason why most people join reserves.My mate is a reserve and at his training,Sergeant asked class how many are interested in joining full time,90% put their hands up.


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    #140
    Geri Boyle
    Registered Users Posts: 1,128 ✭✭✭Geri Boyle


    If this deteriorates into arguments and slagging matches, I will be handing out bans and deleting posts.
    Can we lose the nitpicking over grammar and spelling please, and get on with the conversation.
    Back on topic.


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    #141
    Galway Elvis
    Registered Users Posts: 108 ✭✭Galway Elvis


    I presume you mean by the above that most people join reserves without their main aim being to join full time?
    I am sure a lot of people become Reserve Members of AGS with the aim of becoming Regular Members of AGS. My point is that when you are in uniform and actually helping the cause then the primary concern is not the potential advantage what you are doing will be to future job prospects.


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    #142
    eroo
    Registered Users Posts: 4,084 ✭✭✭eroo


    C-J wrote: »
    I agree somewhat. Parts of your argument are absurd, not to the mention the grammar and spelling inconsistencies that make it hard to decipher. 'Conception' surely is perception?. 'Moral' surely morale? You seem to have a major problem with those who entered the college during accelerated recruitment; believe me if any one of those members was not up to job they would have left by now and their incapacilities sniffed out by ninja reserves!!!

    C-J I'm going to be frank with you here. Your posts as of late are increasingly condescending, and actually have been for some time. You seem to have some attitude problem in your posts when it comes to Reserves. You've either been listening too much to the many people you say you know in the job, or are just ignorant of the good work Reserves are doing out there. Most young, enthusiastic Reserves are treated equally by members on their units; the not so good ones are not!

    Finally, AGS is like any other organisation; there are some Gardai who are incompetent.. but they are in an extreme minority. I don't need to highlight this any further, as AGS is full of good people doing a thankless job for poor pay and conditions. The incompetent ones don't all get 'found out' unfortunately, but it's the same in every job out there.

    I'm not attacking you personally, but you need to re-think your posts from now on and take a teaspoon of reality. Until you actually do a few shifts in a station, whether as a Reserve or Garda, be prepared for a shock because it is nothing like the PR posters, and regardless of how many Gardai you speak to, you wont know if it's the job for you until you put on that uniform.

    EDIT: I'm not attacking anyone, I'm just discussing the purpose of this thread and challenging some peoples views.


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    #143
    Geri Boyle
    Registered Users Posts: 1,128 ✭✭✭Geri Boyle


    eroo wrote: »
    C-J I'm going to be frank with you here. Your posts as of late are increasingly condescending, and actually have been for some time. You seem to have some attitude problem in your posts when it comes to Reserves. You've either been listening too much to the many people you say you know in the job, or are just ignorant of the good work Reserves are doing out there. Most young, enthusiastic Reserves are treated equally by members on their units; the not so good ones are not!

    Finally, AGS is like any other organisation; there are some Gardai who are incompetent.. but they are in an extreme minority. I don't need to highlight this any further, as AGS is full of good people doing a thankless job for poor pay and conditions. The incompetent ones don't all get 'found out' unfortunately, but it's the same in every job out there.

    I'm not attacking you personally, but you need to re-think your posts from now on and take a teaspoon of reality. Until you actually do a few shifts in a station, whether as a Reserve or Garda, be prepared for a shock because it is nothing like the PR posters, and regardless of how many Gardai you speak to, you wont know if it's the job for you until you put on that uniform.

    EDIT: I'm not attacking anyone, I'm just discussing the purpose of this thread and challenging some peoples views.

    Infraction issued for failing to follow mod instruction.
    No further comment on this. Back on topic please.


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    #144
    kerry4sam
    Registered Users Posts: 15,127 ✭✭✭✭kerry4sam


    wiger toods wrote: »
    Hi all!

    How long does it take to complete the garda reserve training?

    pm sent


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    #145
    Geri Boyle
    Registered Users Posts: 1,128 ✭✭✭Geri Boyle


    wiger toods wrote: »
    Hi all!

    How long does it take to complete the garda reserve training?

    Please be advised we also have a Garda Reserve Forum where you will find lots of information about the whole process.


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    #146
    itsallgood
    Closed Accounts Posts: 587 ✭✭✭itsallgood


    I think we all know that there are no disadvantages in joining the reserves.
    It helps people make a genuine contribution to society and also gives an insight as to how the job is done to those looking for firsthand experience.
    It was not set up as a stepping stone into becoming a full time member as that defeats the whole purpose, reserves would be wiped out and people would be trained up twice.
    When originally set up it was seen as a big failure due to lack of interest as there was large recruitment going on for full time.
    The reason people are joining now is hoping it will help them get into full time force.
    This is the sole reason that 90% of those in a class wanted to become a full time member, 5 years ago they wouldn't be in the reserves as they would apply to become a full time garda.
    It is a great source of experience and back up to gardai on the street but it is by no means a back door into full time.
    You will have to go through the same process as everyone else although background checks will be a lot quicker and you will have firsthand experience to speak of in your interview, you still have to pass initial exams.

    Can everyone cut out the crap as we are all on the same side and want to work alongside each other someday, whether it’s a full time Garda or a reserve, or if you’re on the panel or not.
    We've lost too many people here that are good sources of information because too many be grudgers and ignorant people logging on here to rise genuinely interested people.
    For those of us genuine posters I think it’s time to ignore and disregard the crap being posted, don’t reply to it, just report it.
    Also mods, there are 2 or 3 people constantly trolling on here and are always let back in. Can a longer ban be introduced or maybe get people to apply to certain threads before they can post as in the sports section.
    It’s getting out of hand.

    Sorry for rant, just getting extremely pissed off with the constant crap


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    #147
    kerry4sam
    Registered Users Posts: 15,127 ✭✭✭✭kerry4sam


    Geri Boyle wrote: »
    Please be advised we also have a Garda Reserve Forum where you will find lots of information about the whole process.

    :eek: why thank you :D


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    #148
    Me again!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 72 ✭✭Me again!


    kerry4sam wrote: »
    Geri Boyle wrote: »
    Please be advised we also have a Garda Reserve Forum where you will find lots of information about the whole process.

    :eek: why thank you :D

    Does anyone have any satistics on how many reserves have left or been dismissed from the gardai since it started. I ask because some posters claim that they are getting frustrated at the lack of recruitment to the real force. Is this a problem that might increase?


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    #149
    Me again!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 72 ✭✭Me again!


    I reckon when they do advertise again that the standard of applicant that will apply for the Job will be extremely high as in the 80's and early 90's and to get in the interview groups after the test will be an achievement in itself. Only reserves who get into this group will be then in a position to use their experience as a reserve in the interview. I think many will lose out in this way and in a way maybe it's unfair!


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    #150
    unattendedbag
    Registered Users Posts: 456 ✭✭unattendedbag


    From a mate who joined merseyside police 3 to 4 years ago: "it's pretty much an unofficial rule that anyone applying has to have a few years experience as a special constable to have any chance of getting past the interview stage. Purely based on the amount of interest in the job and the amount of applications they received."

    Considering the amount of interest there will be for AGS when they start recruiting again it's going to be the same way. And anyone who gets to the interview stage without having tried to get into the reserves should be very prepared for the question of why not?! The usual answers of "I haven't got time" or "its just not for me" will not go down very well.


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    #151
    itsallgood
    Closed Accounts Posts: 587 ✭✭✭itsallgood


    unattendedbag wrote: »
    From a mate who joined merseyside police 3 to 4 years ago: "it's pretty much an unofficial rule that anyone applying has to have a few years experience as a special constable to have any chance of getting past the interview stage. Purely based on the amount of interest in the job and the amount of applications they received."

    Considering the amount of interest there will be for AGS when they start recruiting again it's going to be the same way. And anyone who gets to the interview stage without having tried to get into the reserves should be very prepared for the question of why not?! The usual answers of "I haven't got time" or "its just not for me" will not go down very well.

    Im sorry but this will not happen, it beats the whole purpose as having reserves there as a RESERVE to full time members.
    Why pay to train and recruit twice.
    It will help you but bu no means will you be turned away for not being a reserve. Its just wishful thinking of some looking for easier access. Up till 4 years ago some people were being rejected at interview stage for being in the reserves.


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