Israeli navy boards irish Gaza-bound boats

Winty · 05-11-2011 03:54PM

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

You obviously missed the Good Friday agreement, weapons decommissioning, the declaration the war was over and the 2008 IMC report.

You obviosly think the IRA has just disappeared, its a fact that IRA supports fly the palestinian flag is it not?

Dudess · 05-11-2011 03:55PM

marcsignal wrote: »

HavingCrack wrote: »

Why is a certain section of Irish society so obsessed with Palestine and Israel, there's literally dozens of conflicts around the globe but you don't see any ships sailing to the aid of the Burmese or indigenous people in South America or the suffers of murder and rape in Africa.

Israel is the only place you hear excuses for barbarity.

My name is URL wrote: »

Plenty of Irish aid gets to those places, and isn't blocked by 3rd party nations.

Crackpot regimes in Darfur, Somalia, Sri lanka, etc. don't starve people to death in a WW2 style Ghetto, and then beat their critics over the head with the holocaust if they mention it..

Ah now, that's just silly. Darfur and Somalia are horrific places.

Einhard · 05-11-2011 03:57PM

Dudess wrote: »

I'd take my hat off to them if they could actually formulate a decent argument as to why Israel's hugely disproportionate defence tactics are a good thing, but until then, "I want to sock it to the hippies and look really tough and right-wing/I hate Muslims" won't wash...

Now that's some generalisation!

marcsignal · 05-11-2011 03:58PM

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Pro-IRA?

Exactly Corvus Maximus. I find that old chestnut laugable

I've never been, and never will be 'Pro IRA' in any context, ever, in my 45yrs.

Son Of A Vidic · 05-11-2011 03:58PM

Winty wrote: »

You obviosly think the IRA has just disappeared, its a fact that IRA supports fly the palestinian flag is it not?

Still obsessing I see, I'll ask you the question again then.

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Pro-IRA? Wtf have they got to do with this thread.

R P McMurphy · 05-11-2011 04:00PM

c_man wrote: »

Shush, nobody wants to hear facts!

While the Palmer report certainly commented on the legality of the blockade, it is still a far cry from the UN declaring it a legal blockade and certainly the report needs to be looked at in relation to Turkish-Israeli relations.

Siuin · 05-11-2011 04:00PM

Is there any support for Israeli claims that there was no actual aid on the ships...?

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4143893,00.html

Einhard · 05-11-2011 04:02PM

R P McMurphy wrote: »

While the Palmer report certainly commented on the legality of the blockade, it is still a far cry from the UN declaring it a legal blockade and certainly the report needs to be looked at in relation to Turkish-Israeli relations.

The UN doesn't need to declare something legal for it to be so, anymore than than the Supreme Court needs to declare your actions legal in order for them to be so. The blockade is recognised as legal under international law. That's fact. Now, whether it's moral is another thing, but its legality is not in question, and to state otherwise is simply disingenuous.

dlofnep · 05-11-2011 04:03PM

Winty wrote: »

You obviosly think the IRA has just disappeared, its a fact that IRA supports fly the palestinian flag is it not?

It's a fact that it's irrelevant, and your posts are full to the brim of logical fallacies.

Allow me to introduce you to Ad Hominem. He is the best friend of those who lack critical thinking skills.

Winty · 05-11-2011 04:03PM

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Still obsessing I see, I'll ask you the question again then.

Please read the WHOLE tread not just the IRA bits.

The question was asked

Why is a certain section of Irish society so obsessed with Palestine and Israel,

IMO its beacuse they are PRO IRA supporters of Palestine.

nacho libre · 05-11-2011 04:04PM

Personally I think Sudan should be excused over Darfur, on the basis, that other nations are also guilty of horrific human rights abuses and we don't hear as much about them. We should also excuse instances of wrong doing by people we support, by citing others have done worse.
It's never right to consistently condemn wrong doing, so deflection should be used when appropriate.

mongoman · 05-11-2011 04:05PM

c_man wrote: »

Shush, nobody wants to hear facts!

Then you mightn't want to know how many times Israel ignored and flagrantly breached countless UN resolutions. Even Saddam didn't get close.

Winty · 05-11-2011 04:05PM

dlofnep wrote: »

It's a fact that it's irrelevant, and your posts are full to the brim of logical fallacies.

Allow me to introduce you to Ad Hominem. He is the best friend of those who lack critical thinking skills.

Allow me to introduce http://www.crethiplethi.com/ira-plo-cooperation-a-long-cozy-relationship/israel/2010/

marcsignal · 05-11-2011 04:05PM

Winty wrote: »

1 google search has all you need, so simple

http://livewire.amnesty.org/2011/06/14/denying-the-truth-will-not-bury-it/

Israel is doing nothing wrong protecting its people from terrorism

Not the same thing. In Israel we're talking about a foreign army collectively torturing an occupied people.

Nor do Darfur Sri Lanka and Somalia claim to be 'Democracies' so you get what it says on the tin.

Winty · 05-11-2011 04:06PM

dlofnep wrote: »

It's a fact that it's irrelevant, and your posts are full to the brim of logical fallacies.

Allow me to introduce you to Ad Hominem. He is the best friend of those who lack critical thinking skills.

BTW

Thanks thats is very cool

Siuin · 05-11-2011 04:07PM

Winty wrote: »

Allow me to introduce http://www.crethiplethi.com/ira-plo-cooperation-a-long-cozy-relationship/israel/2010/

Oh please, at least use a respectable website. I've seen this guy's work before and he is quite obviously a disturbed, islamophobic bigot

mongoman · 05-11-2011 04:10PM

Winty wrote: »

Please read the WHOLE tread not just the IRA bits.

The question was asked

IMO its beacuse they are PRO IRA supporters of Palestine.

Your the one that dragged the IRA into it last time I checked. But then that's to be expected from some. I'm was never pro-IRA, but I have sympathy for the brutalised, state-less Palestinians alright. So quit your bullshít assumptions and you still haven't answered CM's question.:rolleyes:

R P McMurphy · 05-11-2011 04:10PM

Einhard wrote: »

The UN doesn't need to declare something legal for it to be so, anymore than than the Supreme Court needs to declare your actions legal in order for them to be so. The blockade is recognised as legal under international law. That's fact. Now, whether it's moral is another thing, but its legality is not in question, and to state otherwise is simply disingenuous.

And how is it disingenuous to question whether the blockade is legal or not. The UN adds credence to any claims. The legality of the blockade is not clear cut under international law and to claim that it is that is disingenuous. There are many lawyers that differ on the issue

marcsignal · 05-11-2011 04:11PM

Dudess wrote: »

Ah now, that's just silly. Darfur and Somalia are horrific places.

I completely agree. I'm just saying that the perpetrators there don't blame the fact they were colonised and perhaps persecuted in the past by europeans, to justify what they are doing to each other.

dlofnep · 05-11-2011 04:12PM

Winty wrote: »

Allow me to introduce http://www.crethiplethi.com/ira-plo-cooperation-a-long-cozy-relationship/israel/2010/

That is not relevant. You have made a deliberate attempt to attack the character of supporters of Palestine, rather than discuss or critique the actual merit of their support. It may be true that some supporters of Palestine have supported similar movements to overthrow an oppressive regime - but it is not true that all supporters of Palestine supported the IRA.

Basically, you've not demonstrated any form of critical thinking in this thread, and as such - your views come across as poorly constructed, and of little value.

marcsignal · 05-11-2011 04:13PM

Winty wrote: »

You obviosly think the IRA has just disappeared, its a fact that IRA supports fly the palestinian flag is it not?

And UVF supporters fly the israeli flag ? what about it ?

Einhard · 05-11-2011 04:15PM

R P McMurphy wrote: »

And how is it disingenuous to question whether the blockade is legal or not. The UN adds credence to any claims. The legality of the blockade is not clear cut under international law and to claim that it is that is disingenuous. There are many lawyers that differ on the issue

Oh come off it. If the Palmer report had stated that the blockade was illegal, you'd be full of support for it. The report was commissioned and accepted by the UN. It's amazing how people can cherrypick so blatantly in cases like this- ie Palmer states that Israel acted disproportionately and people use that to support their cause, Palmer states that blockade is legal and people ignore it.

Son Of A Vidic · 05-11-2011 04:17PM

Winty wrote: »

Please read the WHOLE tread not just the IRA bits.

Do a thread title check, you'll find the clue there. I just seen the same old tired shyte and I merely asked you to rationalise why you brought the IRA into this thread. Unsurprisingly you are incapable of doing this, becasue of course it was illogical of you to do so.

Einhard · 05-11-2011 04:18PM

marcsignal wrote: »

I completely agree. I'm just saying that the perpetrators there don't blame the fact they were colonised and perhaps persecuted in the past by europeans, to justify what they are doing to each other.

I don't think most Israelis use the Holocaust as an excuse for their actions viz Gaza and West Bank.

R P McMurphy · 05-11-2011 04:20PM

Einhard wrote: »

Oh come off it. If the Palmer report had stated that the blockade was illegal, you'd be full of support for it. The report was commissioned and accepted by the UN. It's amazing how people can cherrypick so blatantly in cases like this- ie Palmer states that Israel acted disproportionately and people use that to support their cause, Palmer states that blockade is legal and people ignore it.

Come off what? you have stated that it is a FACT that the blockade is legal. Have you anything to back up that assertion other than the said report, after all you said that the UN does not decide on issues of legality. There are numerous UN experts that have claimed that the blockade is illegal.

Mark27 · 05-11-2011 04:22PM

Why does nobody ever mention that every school, pupil and equipment in Palestine is completly funded by Israel?

And dudess have you a link to these children that you claim Israel killed?

Siuin · 05-11-2011 04:24PM

Einhard wrote: »

I don't think most Israelis use the Holocaust as an excuse for their actions viz Gaza and West Bank.

Having met settlers in person, I can most definitely tell you that they do. They feel that Europe is trying to 'massacre the state just as they did the Jewish nation' etc etc- it's a very commonly occurring theme. Israeli culture and identity places a huge amount of its ideology on the happenings of the Holocaust, and anti-Semitism is exploited repeatedly when it is quite literally just a criticism of Israel. When I expressed my opposition to circumcision I was told that I was an anti-Semite! Ridiculous.

RussellTuring · 05-11-2011 04:24PM

Winty wrote: »

Please read the WHOLE tread not just the IRA bits.

The question was asked

IMO its beacuse they are PRO IRA supporters of Palestine.

Even if some people who support Republican causes also support the Palestinians, this is irrelevant: being a Republican is not a necessary condition for sympathising with the Palestinians, and I tell you this as one of the latter but not the former.

marcsignal · 05-11-2011 04:25PM

Einhard wrote: »

I don't think most Israelis use the Holocaust as an excuse for their actions viz Gaza and West Bank.

The holocaust hucksters in the States who secure their US funding, and claim to represent them, do tho.

Overheal · 05-11-2011 04:28PM

Einhard wrote: »

marcsignal wrote: »

I completely agree. I'm just saying that the perpetrators there don't blame the fact they were colonised and perhaps persecuted in the past by europeans, to justify what they are doing to each other.

I don't think most Israelis use the Holocaust as an excuse for their actions viz Gaza and West Bank.

Discussions over Zionism and reestablishing Israel as a home for the Jewish people predates the holocaust, it doesn't play as important a role in the decision to recognize their statehood as some might think, though indeed the holocaust weighed heavily on public opinion.

Aside from the that even in the diaspora the Jews were hated in Europe in a similar fashion as Muslims today. Long long histories around moneylending and catholicism and all that.

Sooooo no need to.go there. The blockade...

Israeli navy boards irish Gaza-bound boats

Comments