Sold crashed car without airbags - Next course of action?

thom119 · 03-11-2011 08:03PM #1

Not sure if this is the correct forum to post in / allowed, please feel free to delete or move mods

So, I bought a car last November from a dealership in the santry area.
I just brought the car for a first service and afterwards when I spoke to the mechanic he informed me the car was badly crashed. All airbags were deployed upon the crash and never replaced. The bulb on the dash was also removed. I've been driving around for the past year without airbags.

I specifically asked when buying the car if it was ever involved in an accident and was told it was not. My dad was with me when buying the car and can confirm this.

I was literally just informed of this an hour ago and was wondering what you boardsies would advice to be the next course of action.
Who should I contact first? (dealership, gardai, solicitor or insurance company)

Is there any need to contact my insurance company over this issue?
If this is a civil matter should I still submit a report to the gardai?

Would there be any point in even contacting the dealership or should I let my solicitor deal with them?
To be honest, I'd absolutely love to put this dealership out of business. I believe what they did is absolutely disgraceful. Myself or any other passengers I've carried over the last year could have been killed of seriously injured in the event of a crash.

*I am not naming and shaming the dealership under any circumstance

Thanks lads

Bigus · 03-11-2011 08:07PM

I think the dealership should be first point of call "they may have been unaware of the state of the car if it was traded in in that condition"
Nothing less than a full refund if they plead this.

alias no.9 · 03-11-2011 08:08PM

Straight to a solicitor, under no circumstances enter SIMI arbitration, they are a vested interest, not an independent broker. The time elapsed since buying the car may work against you.

CiniO · 03-11-2011 08:23PM

Bigus wrote: »

I think the dealership should be first point of call "they may have been unaware of the state of the car if it was traded in in that condition"
Nothing less than a full refund if they plead this.

They may have been unaware of missing airbags and car being badly crashed in the past?????/

Jesus - who do you think they are.
If they call them selves "car dealer" then they should be professionals about cars.
In this case you don't even need a professional. Missing airbags and car badly crashed can be observed by an amateur.

It's kinda like you went to the butchers, and he would sell you a green meat.
Would you be saying as well that he could have been not aware that beef is normally red, not green?

Bigus · 03-11-2011 08:37PM

CiniO wrote: »

They may have been unaware of missing airbags and car being badly crashed in the past?????/

Jesus - who do you think they are.
If they call them selves "car dealer" then they should be professionals about cars.
In this case you don't even need a professional. Missing airbags and car badly crashed can be observed by an amateur.

It's kinda like you went to the butchers, and he would sell you a green meat.
Would you be saying as well that he could have been not aware that beef is normally red, not green?

Thats why i used " quotation marks"
If the op wants his money back and a quick solution this might be the way to approach the situation.

In the past this is what clockers used to do , write a cheque refund straight away,when found out .

Effectively the op is car-less now as he shouldn't be driving around with the knowledge the airbags are missing.

Retribution would be great but the op needs either a replacement car or money back straight away not a long drawn out court case and the chance the dealer could wind up the company in the meantime.

Not fair or idealistic but a refund would be best scenario in the real world.

mickdw · 03-11-2011 08:53PM

A year has passed since purchase. This may cause you a problem as they could try to claim that you repaired it this way after an accident you had yourself.

You need to get some history on the car. Do a history check - Motorcheck guy posts on here and might help you dig out the details personally. If that check revealed crash damage prior to your ownership, that will be a big help to you.

L-M · 03-11-2011 09:02PM

As my father always said "I don't mind buying a crashed car, as long as it was repaired right".

Your car obviously wasn't repaired right.

Was the NCT done whilst in the garage you purchased it? If so, I'd be asking how it passed the NCT without the airbag light working.

It's very easy spot a car that's been crashed/repaired, I would not accept this as an excuse.

Find out if the car traded the car in or purchased it out right, if it was the latter I'd be somewhat more concerned.

Act fast, but plan how you are going to act. Don't go running into the showroom shouting at roaring at the salespeople.

thom119 · 03-11-2011 09:30PM

Thanks for the replies guys,
I think the best course of action is to go get advice from a solicitor tomorrow morning. If I'm going to go down the legal route would a motorcheck report be sufficient to prove the car was crashed before i bought it?

With regards to the NCT, the car passed an NCT re-test for visual defects the day before I bought it and I have the test certificate in the car.
Surely they should have noticed the car had no airbag? Or the bulb on the dash was removed?

Should I report this incidence to my insurance company? Is it of any relevance to them?

slimjimmc · 03-11-2011 09:42PM

Yes, you should certainly report it to your insurer. The car is not what the insurer expected as and it may also call the car's integrity into question. I imagine those would be important risk factors for any insurer.

L-M · 03-11-2011 09:52PM

thom119 wrote: »

Thanks for the replies guys,
I think the best course of action is to go get advice from a solicitor tomorrow morning. If I'm going to go down the legal route would a motorcheck report be sufficient to prove the car was crashed before i bought it?

With regards to the NCT, the car passed an NCT re-test for visual defects the day before I bought it and I have the test certificate in the car.
Surely they should have noticed the car had no airbag? Or the bulb on the dash was removed?

Should I report this incidence to my insurance company? Is it of any relevance to them?

They should of noticed, at least you know it's not unsafe structurally... That's if you trust NCTS.

If you have the white sheet along with the cert, have a look at "No. of inspections" and see how many is there.

Owen · 03-11-2011 09:54PM

Most airbags can be replaced by a 4 Ohm resistor, that's enough to fool the ECU into thinking they're fitted.

Mr Benevolent · 03-11-2011 09:58PM

Owen wrote: »

Most airbags can be replaced by a 4 Ohm resistor, that's enough to fool the ECU into thinking they're fitted.

So how do you prove they are in the car?

thom119 · 03-11-2011 10:09PM

Limerick man wrote: »

They should of noticed, at least you know it's not unsafe structurally... That's if you trust NCTS.

If you have the white sheet along with the cert, have a look at "No. of inspections" and see how many is there.

Just got the white sheet, up top it says there were 2 inspections.
To be honest when i bought the car I had a lot of faith in the NCT, and that was before I started reading this boards forum.
The fact it passed a couple of days before I bought it was a big selling point for me...how very wrong i was!

Pov06 · 03-11-2011 10:32PM

thom119 wrote: »

Just got the white sheet, up top it says there were 2 inspections.
To be honest when i bought the car I had a lot of faith in the NCT, and that was before I started reading this boards forum.
The fact it passed a couple of days before I bought it was a big selling point for me...how very wrong i was!

To be honest the NCT means nothing with dealers these days. Dealers themselves know people who they can pay to get the car through no problem.

The thing that shows this will happen is when it says on an ad something like "car will come with a new NCT once you buy it". Suspicious right? How they just happen to know it WILL pass etc.. Obviously it's possible but unlikely.

trepasers · 03-11-2011 11:12PM

Dont mean to hijack the thread but just wondering what's the easiest way to check if the car has all its air-bags....I bought a car similar to the one stated above and am afraid that one of the air bags (if not more ) is missing

L-M · 03-11-2011 11:15PM

trepasers wrote: »

Dont mean to hijack the thread but just wondering what's the easiest way to check if the car has all its air-bags....I bought a car similar to the one stated above and am afraid that one of the air bags (if not more ) is missing

No way to yourself really. You could get it scanned for faults and see does anything show up, also check if your airbag light is working.

unkel · 03-11-2011 11:20PM

Selling a car knowing it doesn't have airbags anymore is criminal. Go to the Gardai, to report this crime. They will be able to check when the car was crashed (provided it is in their PULSE system)

And do not drive your car anymore and notify your insurance company asap. What is the car (year, make, model)?

mickdw · 03-11-2011 11:28PM

Pov06 wrote: »

The thing that shows this will happen is when it says on an ad something like "car will come with a new NCT once you buy it". Suspicious right? How they just happen to know it WILL pass etc.. Obviously it's possible but unlikely.

Thats a silly statement. They are saying that they will get it through - as in whatever it needs to pass. It would be a very poor car that couldnt be got through.

I do agree though that an NCT that is arranged by a dealer might not be as reliable as one you would have carried out yourself

scotty_irish · 03-11-2011 11:56PM

trepasers wrote: »

Dont mean to hijack the thread but just wondering what's the easiest way to check if the car has all its air-bags....I bought a car similar to the one stated above and am afraid that one of the air bags (if not more ) is missing

crashing it tends to determine if they're working properly!

trepasers · 04-11-2011 12:05AM

could you go after a private seller regarding missing airbags ??

thom119 · 04-11-2011 12:10AM

unkel wrote: »

Selling a car knowing it doesn't have airbags anymore is criminal. Go to the Gardai, to report this crime. They will be able to check when the car was crashed (provided it is in their PULSE system)

And do not drive your car anymore and notify your insurance company asap. What is the car (year, make, model)?

I asked a garda for advice there a while ago. I told him the story I told you lads and he said it was a civil matter and to contact a solicitor. I thought he might've at least taken a statement from me as I thought it was a criminal offence.

I brought the car home from the garage and i'm not planning on making any trips in it. I'll give the insurance co. a call in the morning and tell them the story and that i will be contacting a solicitor.

It's a '00 VW Golf, 1.4L

I'll keep ye updated

jhud · 04-11-2011 12:28AM

Someone bought from a dealer near me and the car was just traded in. They bought the car for cash and later had the car pulling to the left so went to get tracking done he was told that the car was written off and repaired but not very well. On further inspection of car found scrapped sheets in glove box for uk and the car was imported here and traded for a new car. Owner had to get solicitor to get his money back off the dealer. You should find out if it was imported as well.

Hope this helps but the owner didnt have the car too long. You having the car a year is a worry hope it works out for you best of luck.

Fishtits · 04-11-2011 12:51AM

unkel wrote: »

Selling a car knowing it doesn't have airbags anymore is criminal.

Rant On!

Prove it... :rolleyes: (Act #?, Statute#?, burden of proof?)

Of course, this being Ireland such an act would not actually be criminal so the "perp" will as usual "walk"

When will we (the proletariat ) actually manage to have our laws reformed to punish the protected classes (business folk, bankers etc ...those who historically influenced said laws) for their crimes.

Sorry for the Sophomoric Thread Drift, its been one of those nights...

Back on topic
OP, talk to a Solicitor, explain what happened, and listen to the advice/options you're given.

THEN decide what you want to do.

fishtits.

mickdw · 04-11-2011 01:14AM

Remember, even a perfectly good 00 1.4 golf is not worth alot. Sure you must chase them but dont end up so far down that road that you will spend more than the value of the car on solicitors etc.

unkel · 04-11-2011 01:16AM

thom119 wrote: »

I asked a garda for advice there a while ago. I told him the story I told you lads and he said it was a civil matter

I'm usually the first on here to tell people not to bother calling the guards because it's a civil matter (like clocked cars, people giving false details about cars they're selling, car crashes, etc. etc.)

This is different. A dealer selling a car knowing the main safety system is disabled is very much like a butcher knowingly selling poisoned meat (as someone stated). It is NOT a civil matter, it is a criminal one. I suggest you try talking to another Garda, as it seems the one you talked to didn't pay too much attention while he was in Templemore...

thom119 · 04-11-2011 01:23AM

mickdw wrote: »

Remember, even a perfectly good 00 1.4 golf is not worth alot. Sure you must chase them but dont end up so far down that road that you will spend more than the value of the car on solicitors etc.

I know the car isn't worth a significant amount of money, but right now it also feels like a matter or principal.
I've been driving around for the past year with a very unsafe car. The potential for serious injury or fatality has been very high. Not only my safety but the safety of my passengers have been at risk.

And unkel, i'll try talking to another garda after the solicitors tomorrow. Also, if anyone could PM me details of one that specialises in this area i'd really appreciate it.

darg · 04-11-2011 09:52PM

unkel wrote: »

I'm usually the first on here to tell people not to bother calling the guards because it's a civil matter (like clocked cars, people giving false details about cars they're selling, car crashes, etc. etc.)

This is different. A dealer selling a car knowing the main safety system is disabled is very much like a butcher knowingly selling poisoned meat (as someone stated). It is NOT a civil matter, it is a criminal one. I suggest you try talking to another Garda, as it seems the one you talked to didn't pay too much attention while he was in Templemore...

Can you quote the criminal legislation relevant to the OP?

slimjimmc · 05-11-2011 02:31AM

unkel wrote: »

I'm usually the first on here to tell people not to bother calling the guards because it's a civil matter (like clocked cars, people giving false details about cars they're selling, car crashes, etc. etc.)

This is different. A dealer selling a car knowing the main safety system is disabled is very much like a butcher knowingly selling poisoned meat (as someone stated). It is NOT a civil matter, it is a criminal one. I suggest you try talking to another Garda, as it seems the one you talked to didn't pay too much attention while he was in Templemore...

While air-bags are indeed an important supplementary safety system the lack of a legislative requirement for them in the EU clearly indicates that none of the EU members considers them to be the main safety system on par with tyres, brakes and seatbelts.

It is however an offence to sell a car to the public if the car is in such a condition as to render it a danger to the public including the car's occupants. You'll have to make a very strong argument to claim that the absence of air-bags makes a car unsafe because at present it's just no more dangerous than any other car that doesn't have air-bags fitted. Maybe that Garda did pay attention and knows his stuff afterall?

I agree that selling a car with a disabled air-bag system should be a criminal matter, I have serious doubts that it currently is so. What is that makes you so sure it is?

JP 1800 · 05-11-2011 03:25AM

It may not be a European legislation but the sale of the car can be considered contrary to the Sale of Goods act 1980 where the car was not as described. Personally I think this surmounts to fraud on behalf of the dealer.

corktina · 05-11-2011 10:42AM

I would tell the dealer you want all your money back instantly or you will sue the bollix off him for putting you at risk. Any arguement or delay, down the solicitor instantly.

opinion guy · 05-11-2011 10:55AM

corktina wrote: »

I would tell the dealer you want all your money back instantly or you will sue the bollix off him for putting you at risk. Any arguement or delay, down the solicitor instantly.

To be honest I would at least talk to a solicitor first. Get him to contact dealer.
If you do go to dealer, don't go on your own - bring somebody with you as a witness. If you go there on your own, this guy cold claim anything - given we know he is ruthlessly unscrupulous already.

I also think try another garda on this.

Sold crashed car without airbags - Next course of action?

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