Greeks having a referendum on bailout

caseyann · 03-11-2011 04:37PM

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Yeah they're having a great laugh in Greece alright!

Stick to watching Corrie.

Child :rolleyes:

Greece deserves what it gets and so does Ireland for being pussies.

bauderline · 03-11-2011 04:40PM

So he realises, they can't hold elections because they will go bust, they can't hold a referendum because they will go bust.

They know their only option now is to cling on to the EU or else as a country they are finished....

It's a kind of paradox... Democracy is not an option it would appear...

03-11-2011 04:40PM

caseyann wrote: »

Child :rolleyes:

Greece deserves what it gets and so does Ireland for being pussies.

I don't know about you, but I haven't seen Irish people out lighting themselves on fire. Things are pretty sweet for us Irish and we would be doing ourselves a big bloody favour by realising how lucky we are when looking at Greece.

Of course I'm sure you're a proponent of an Irish default. You'll complain about a few billion in cuts even though your own views, if they came to pass, would leave us cutting maybe 20 billion off the budget in one go and would essentially shut down the country.

Anyway I'm a busy man and I have to leave it there, not all of us are on the social.

caseyann · 03-11-2011 04:51PM

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

I don't know about you, but I haven't seen Irish people out lighting themselves on fire. Things are pretty sweet for us Irish and we would be doing ourselves a big bloody favour by realising how lucky we are when looking at Greece.

Of course I'm sure you're a proponent of an Irish default. You'll complain about a few billion in cuts even though your own views, if they came to pass, would leave us cutting maybe 20 billion off the budget in one go and would essentially shut down the country.

Anyway I'm a busy man and I have to leave it there, not all of us are on the social.

Yeah you are right leave it there stuck up asshole.:)

Duke Leonal Felmet · 03-11-2011 04:59PM

caseyann wrote: »

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Yeah they're having a great laugh in Greece alright!

Stick to watching Corrie.

Child :rolleyes:

Greece deserves what it gets and so does Ireland for being pussies.

So Greece decide to act unilaterally and deserve what they get. Ireland act multilaterally and deserve what they get.

Interesting.

caseyann · 03-11-2011 05:03PM

Duke Leonal Felmet wrote: »

So Greece decide to act unilaterally and deserve what they get. Ireland act multilaterally and deserve what they get.

Interesting.

No the bending over and taking it,rather than standing up for their country and people.
Irish are not performing at all on any stage,they are a non point in EU as are Greeks.

bauderline · 03-11-2011 05:28PM

What we are actually doing is buying our sovereignty back, which it not something we should have to do, but nonetheless do due to a little decision made by the previous minister for finance that merged our bank debt with our sovereign debt.

We could have done it differently but we have now come so far down the road now it would be beyond pointless to start complaining about it now.

Scofflaw · 03-11-2011 05:30PM

bauderline wrote: »

Scrambling for a way out of this... How many lives does this cat have left ?

"(Reuters) - Greek Prime Minister George Papandreou on Thursday offered to hold talks with the opposition to resolve the country's political crisis and softened his stance on a referendum on the country's vital bailout package.

In a speech to his cabinet on Thursday, Papandreou said he would assign the task of discussions with the opposition to two senior party members and praised their support of the bailout deal. If the opposition agreed to back the deal in parliament, no referendum would have to be held, he said.

"I will be glad even if we don't go to a referendum, which was never a purpose in itself. I'm glad that all this discussion has at least brought a lot of people back to their senses," he said in the text of his speech released to media.

"I will talk to (opposition leader Antonis) Samaras so that we examine the next steps on the basis of a wider consensus."

He reiterated that Greece's euro zone membership was not in question and that heading to elections immediately would entail a big risk of the country going bankrupt."

So, a very fine piece of brinksmanship?

I think he's saying there that he had to backpedal pretty quick.

Unless you want to entertain conspiracies that this was to make Greece pass austerity measures.

I don't think a 'conspiracy theory' is necessary - Papandreou has more or less said just that.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Scofflaw · 03-11-2011 05:32PM

OK - now he's saying it's still on, and still about the bailout:

16.27 On elections, Papandreou says:

Quote a national election would lead us to a situation where society is under a lot of pressure and I doubt that we would get to the end of this election without a bankruptcy.

16.23 He adds:

Quote turning down this package would be the beginning of coming out of the euro - and that is certain.

16.19 Papandreou says the referendum question would NOT be whether Greece wants to remain in the euro, but if it wants the Brussels bail-out package.

16.17 Papandreou continues:

Quote It's never happened before that a countrty has had its debt written off by 50pc and is still complaining.

cordially,
Scofflaw

bauderline · 03-11-2011 05:45PM

So who would you rather hand over 8bn to Greece or Somalia ?

bauderline · 03-11-2011 05:46PM

Finance Minister just declared oh no we won't...

Punch N Judy Show now...

Scofflaw · 03-11-2011 05:49PM

bauderline wrote: »

Finance Minister just declared oh no we won't...

Punch N Judy Show now...

He's either completely off his trolley, or he's playing a blinder:

16.45 Papandreou is sending slightly mixed messages here. His speech was rambling and lacking in a firm answer on whether or not we can expect a Greek referendum.

On one hand he's saying that he's willing to drop a referendum if the Greek parliament shows unity tomorrow. But on the other, there was plenty of pro-referendum talk in his speech.

He said that it could be a "solution that could form a clear decision by the Greek people".

Quote I trust the wisdom and the maturity of the Greek people and I trust it more than what is now called the political establishment. I believe deeply in democracy and this is my principle, this is well-rooted in our poliical party.

So when I announced this initiative, apart from the reactions, Greek people heard for the first time in many years that we'll listen to what they have to say, but we'll ask them. We believe in their opinion.

16.30 Papandreou:

Quote The effort that has been made in the last two years is not my effort or your effort, it's the effort of the Greek people.

16.28 He praises opposition leader Antonis Samaras for accepting the Brussels deal. He labels it a "new political position for all of us"

"I'm delighted everyone is voluntarily cooperating with me, and I have put down my gun...this gun...although there's a lot to be said for the gun, which I have here, but have definitely put down...and am certainly not waving at you, like this..."

amused,
Scofflaw

Thrill · 03-11-2011 05:51PM

Sounded to me after listening to his speech, that a referendum may still be an option if things don't work out with a unity government.

I may have picked it up wrongly though.

Mr.Micro · 03-11-2011 05:58PM

bauderline wrote: »

Finance Minister just declared oh no we won't...

Punch N Judy Show now...

Are we sure FF have not emigrated to Greece. At the moment Greece is holding us all to ransom with its simplistic and pointless approach to resolve its crisis and now the Euro crisis. Rather than facing up to its own failure it pretends it has a choice. It does not, either way, accept the bailout or not, it will be still in incredible debt. I would not loan it another cent as it will never pay it back, simply because it cannot. Why does the EU insist on trying to treat a patient who will not respond to any treatment, but insists on infecting everybody else.

Scofflaw · 03-11-2011 06:05PM

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Are we sure FF have not emigrated to Greece. At the moment Greece is holding us all to ransom with its simplistic and pointless approach to resolve its crisis and now the Euro crisis. Rather than facing up to its own failure it pretends it has a choice. It does not, either way, accept the bailout or not, it will be still in incredible debt. I would not loan it another cent as it will never pay it back, simply because it cannot. Why does the EU insist on trying to treat a patient who will not respond to any treatment, but insists on infecting everybody else.

Solidarity, partly - doing everything possible for another EU country.

Also, as long as you keep someone on life support, they might one day pay you back and you don't have to crystallise the losses relating to what they owe you, whereas if they're dead, you do.

cordially,
Scofflaw

bauderline · 03-11-2011 06:06PM

Gentlemen,

This is quite remarkable when you think about it, for a situation that requires unequivocal clarity and decisiveness I don't think it would have been feasible to obtain a greater degree of ambiguity or confusion.

P.

bauderline · 03-11-2011 06:09PM

Thrill wrote: »

Sounded to me after listening to his speech, that a referendum may still be an option if things don't work out with a unity government.

I may have picked it up wrongly though.

Yes, he is still trying to manipulate a situation that is out of control, madness.

Mr.Micro · 03-11-2011 06:12PM

Scofflaw wrote: »

Solidarity, partly - doing everything possible for another EU country.

Also, as long as you keep someone on life support, they might one day pay you back and you don't have to crystallise the losses relating to what they owe you, whereas if they're dead, you do.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Well said. I think that the EU never envisaged such a scenario and are unwilling and unable to face up to it now. I do not think it even has a strategy to deal with it. Unfortunately this patient will be sick for some time, and more and more medicine will be required. Lets hope none of the others become sicker as well, Portugal, Spain, Ireland.

Scofflaw · 03-11-2011 06:14PM

bauderline wrote: »

Yes, he is still trying to manipulate a situation that is out of control, madness.

I'm still not sure it is out of control - or at least out of manipulation.

cordially,
Scofflaw

bauderline · 03-11-2011 06:30PM

Scofflaw wrote: »

I'm still not sure it is out of control - or at least out of manipulation.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Maybe I am being to simplistic, but does it really not boil down to the next 8bn.

If they don't get this they are sunk....

I would imagine they have a fair amount of work to do in terms of building confidence in whatever entity will govern the country going forward in order to persuade the EU/IMF folks to handover the cash...

bauderline · 03-11-2011 06:33PM

Sorry couldn't resist this bit of silliness, think of Ken as George...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DInM68YgcC4

Scofflaw · 03-11-2011 06:37PM

bauderline wrote: »

Maybe I am being to simplistic, but does it really not boil down to the next 8bn.

If they don't get this they are sunk....

I would imagine they have a fair amount of work to do in terms of building confidence in whatever entity will govern the country going forward in order to persuade the EU/IMF folks to handover the cash...

I think the EU/IMF are keen to hand over the money, and what Papandreou has done or is doing here is creating a national unity government through a massive piece of brinkmanship. And a key piece of that would seem to be that he probably is willing to go all the way.

cordially,
Scofflaw

NinjaK · 03-11-2011 06:37PM

I knew they wouldnt let the Greece people have their say:rolleyes:

Scofflaw · 03-11-2011 06:40PM

NinjaK wrote: »

I knew they wouldnt let the Greece people have their say:rolleyes:

And isn't it comforting that you've been able to confirm what you already believed? Of course, you need to ignore the fact that Papandreou's proposed referendum has been scuppered by his own party, who I suspect are not who you mean by "they"...

amused,
Scofflaw

bauderline · 03-11-2011 06:44PM

Scofflaw wrote: »

I think the EU/IMF are keen to hand over the money, and what Papandreou has done or is doing here is creating a national unity government through a massive piece of brinkmanship. And a key piece of that would seem to be that he probably is willing to go all the way.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Interesting take on it...... if that were true it would be the biggest gamble of all time...

Arfan · 03-11-2011 06:57PM

So what you're saying Scofflaw is that Papandreou used the threat of a referendum not to call the EU's bluff but his own government's?

I don't want to believe you because I don't want to believe that a politician could be so ruthless and shrewd.

K-9 · 03-11-2011 07:11PM

Arfan wrote: »

So what you're saying Scofflaw is that Papandreou used the threat of a referendum not to call the EU's bluff but his own government's?

I don't want to believe you because I don't want to believe that a politician could be so ruthless and shrewd.

I'd say the opposition as well, either back the referendum or stop populist opposition.

Thrill · 03-11-2011 07:14PM

Greek opposition leader Antonis Samaras calls on Prime Minister George Papandreou to resign
Reuters

8.12pm Samaras has just concluded his speech to parliament in which he has made clear that he has no interest in co-operating with Papandreou. He has also called for snap elections in six weeks. New Democracy is leaving the parliamentary debate on the confidence motion. The consensus only lasted for a few hours.

http://www.athensnews.gr/portal/8/49957

.

opo · 03-11-2011 08:17PM

Arfan wrote: »

So what you're saying Scofflaw is that Papandreou used the threat of a referendum not to call the EU's bluff but his own government's?

I don't want to believe you because I don't want to believe that a politician could be so ruthless and shrewd.

Believe......

But to be fair, he called the oppositions bluff more so, which neutered them.

Greek Bailout Deal Referendum Scrapped

http://news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/16102562

Scofflaw · 03-11-2011 08:36PM

Arfan wrote: »

So what you're saying Scofflaw is that Papandreou used the threat of a referendum not to call the EU's bluff but his own government's?

I don't think he had any need to call the EU's bluff.

Arfan wrote: »

I don't want to believe you because I don't want to believe that a politician could be so ruthless and shrewd.

It's definitely a more fun way of looking at it - a monumental bluff with the whole continent panicking.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Greeks having a referendum on bailout

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