there are more Porsches in Greece than taxpayers declaring 50,000 euro incomes

Gummy Panda · 02-11-2011 12:22AM

suicide_circus wrote: »

The Greeks - a great bunch of lads.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_quCh-Js2mb8/RhMZc3_UjvI/AAAAAAAAAAs/sU-jP5abKHY/s320/Oxford1967.304.jpg

Are they touching mickeys?

Ste_D · 02-11-2011 12:43AM

The Greeks are leaving the EU with no option but to cut them loose. If they think they are f*cked now, they should wait and see the consequences of that happening!!

Kanoe · 02-11-2011 12:46AM

Gummy Panda wrote: »

Are they touching mickeys?

special greek handshake

ejmaztec · 02-11-2011 01:22AM

Give it a few weeks and you'll be able to swap a loaf of bread for a Porsche in Athens.

Victor · 02-11-2011 05:48AM

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Why because they will allow their people to vote on the future of their country?

A large number of people in Greece are living way beyond their means. The average income for the railway company was €65,000. In Irish Rail, it is €56,000 (which is generally considered high) despite much a higher cost of living here.

Son Of A Vidic · 02-11-2011 05:53AM

Immaculate Pasta wrote: »

They invented gayness.

And gave us that creep Oedipus.

im invisible · 02-11-2011 06:00AM

Aye, he was a complex fecker, right enough

blorg · 02-11-2011 07:03AM

Greece does have a major problem with tax evasion but this is utter bullshít from the Telegraph. There are NOT more Porsche Cayennes in Greece than people declaring incomes over €50k. It doesn't pass the smell test. Don't believe everything you read in the UK gutter press.

160,000 Greeks declare incomes of over €50k. This us almost certainly under declaration but that is how many declare it.

There were 1,570 Porche Cayennes sold in Greece. Not per year, since the car was introduced. This is lower than the European average per capita, as you would expect for Greece as it is poorer than the EU average.

1,570 < 160,000.

Source, via reddit

K-9 · 02-11-2011 01:21PM

Just the Telegraph getting its usual dig at the Euro and foreigners then.

TwoShedsJackson · 02-11-2011 01:25PM

There were more Mercedes registered here per head of population than in Germany during the 'boom'. We aren't exactly paragons here.

mathie · 02-11-2011 01:27PM

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

There were more sheds registered here per head of population than in Germany during the 'boom'. We aren't exactly paragons here.

FYP

02-11-2011 01:27PM

blorg wrote: »

Greece does have a major problem with tax evasion but this is utter bullshít from the Telegraph. There are NOT more Porsche Cayennes in Greece than people declaring incomes over €50k. It doesn't pass the smell test. Don't believe everything you read in the UK gutter press.

160,000 Greeks declare incomes of over €50k. This us almost certainly under declaration but that is how many declare it.

There were 1,570 Porche Cayennes sold in Greece. Not per year, since the car was introduced. This is lower than the European average per capita, as you would expect for Greece as it is poorer than the EU average.

1,570 < 160,000.

Source, via reddit

Porches do last a very long time due to the build quality and the favorable climatic conditions in Greece, so some of these cars could easily be 15-20 years old! How much would a 20 year old Porsche cost?

TwoShedsJackson · 02-11-2011 01:41PM

mathie wrote: »

FYP

That extra shed was an investment you know. I'm going to flip it in 400 years.

Wibbs · 02-11-2011 01:51PM

blorg wrote: »

Greece does have a major problem with tax evasion but this is utter bullshít from the Telegraph. There are NOT more Porsche Cayennes in Greece than people declaring incomes over €50k. It doesn't pass the smell test. Don't believe everything you read in the UK gutter press.

Oh I agree Blorg, but Greece has beyond a major problem with tax evasion and sense of public and private service entitlement. The list is long and daft and oft incredible. The swimming pools a good one as mentioned earlier. Something like 800 declared and paid tax on their pools in Athens, yet the city and it's burbs have 10's of 1000's of said pools. The equivalent of Blackrock clinic level doctors and their practices were declaring tax returns applicable to people earning under 20 k a year, when their rent on the premises was twice that. If they were declaring any tax at all. Something daft like a third weren't and that's just one profession. It's very much a cash based culture across the board.

Funny enough we could have learned from their banking sector as they weren't badly run like ours. Their mistake was lending to the greek gov.

dav3 · 02-11-2011 01:52PM

MrMatisse wrote: »

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/ianmcowie/100012894/fast-cars-and-loose-fiscal-morals-there-are-more-porsches-in-greece-than-taxpayers-declaring-50000-euro-incomes/

And we sit here and suck it up while they live it up......:mad:

There are no links to back up the claims in the article.

It hurts my eyes to read anything written in the telegraph, it's right down there with the daily mail and sun in terms of useless uk papers.

Anyway, how dare the Greeks be allowed to have a say in their future, and their childrens future and their grandchildrens future.
Why can't they be subservient like us. Don't they know that extremley wealthy gamblers need to be paid, now!

Wertz · 02-11-2011 01:58PM

So they've got porsches... shame they'll not be able to run them on Ouzo, 'cos no c*nt's going to be selling them petrol in a few weeks...

mathie · 02-11-2011 02:04PM

Wibbs wrote: »

Oh I agree Blorg, but Greece has beyond a major problem with tax evasion and sense of public and private service entitlement. The list is long and daft and oft incredible. The swimming pools a good one as mentioned earlier. Something like 800 declared and paid tax on their pools in Athens, yet the city and it's burbs have 10's of 1000's of said pools. The equivalent of Blackrock clinic level doctors and their practices were declaring tax returns applicable to people earning under 20 k a year, when their rent on the premises was twice that. If they were declaring any tax at all. Something daft like a third weren't and that's just one profession. It's very much a cash based culture across the board.

Funny enough we could have learned from their banking sector as they weren't badly run like ours. Their mistake was lending to the greek gov.

+1

In Greece the banks didn't bust the country. The country bust the banks.

Caraville · 02-11-2011 02:10PM

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

And gave us that creep Oedipus.

Yeah, him too. What a mother f**ker.

Captain Darling · 02-11-2011 02:14PM

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

And gave us that creep Oedipus.

Bunch of mother fcukers.

blorg · 02-11-2011 02:57PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Porches do last a very long time due to the build quality and the favorable climatic conditions in Greece, so some of these cars could easily be 15-20 years old! How much would a 20 year old Porsche cost?

The article specifically claims there are more Porsche Cayennes registered there than people declaring income over €50,000, not Porsches in general. As the Cayenne was introduced in 2002 it would be difficult for Greece to have many 15-20 year old ones! The ratio is out by a factor of over 100; the article is just rubbish. It isn't the claim anyway but I would doubt there are 99 other Porsches to every Cayenne.

The best I can imagine is that the author they quoted was using hyperbole, and the Telegraph just took him literally. Greece of course has major problems that they need to address but the Telegraph also has its own agenda, and less than stellar journalistic standards.

hangon · 02-11-2011 03:05PM

MrMatisse wrote: »

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/ianmcowie/100012894/fast-cars-and-loose-fiscal-morals-there-are-more-porsches-in-greece-than-taxpayers-declaring-50000-euro-incomes/

And we sit here and suck it up while they live it up......:mad:

very much like Ireland it is those who did not benefit much from Greek corruption that are paying the highest price for generations of folly by the Greek system(or lack of)

why will people not read about what life is like for the most weakest in their society?
many of them never had the 'high life' but are in dire poverty now,fcuk sake taking money from the old etc to pay billions to people who are so rich they have no idea how much they are worth.

Morality............. What morality?
Humanity..............what Humanity?

have to go i just puked on my keyboard thinking about the injustice of all this.

KerranJast · 02-11-2011 03:12PM

hangon wrote: »

very much like Ireland it is those who did not benefit much from Greek corruption that are paying the highest price for generations of folly by the Greek system(or lack of)

why will people not read about what life is like for the most weakest in their society?
many of them never had the 'high life' but are in dire poverty now,fcuk sake taking money from the old etc to pay billions to people who are so rich they have no idea how much they are worth.

Morality............. What morality?
Humanity..............what Humanity?

have to go i just puked on my keyboard thinking about the injustice of all this.

Everyone in Greece (and to a lesser extent Ireland) benefited from deliquent Govt/Banking behaviour and to say otherwise is revisionism.

Must read on Greek attitudes -> http://www.vanityfair.com/business/features/2010/10/greeks-bearing-bonds-201010

Wibbs · 02-11-2011 03:17PM

blorg wrote: »

Greece of course has major problems that they need to address but the Telegraph also has its own agenda, and less than stellar journalistic standards.

Oh again I agree. The Torygraph is hardly unbiased and this article looks like a stitch up to me. The joke is Greece requires little in the way of stitch ups by biased hacks to make for good and honest copy. I'd have a read of the Vanity Fair link from earlier http://www.vanityfair.com/business/features/2010/10/greeks-bearing-bonds-201010 I've a rellie who lived in Greece for two years in the mid noughties and he was laughing about the tax fraud at the time, he's not shocked by how it went down since and he reckons there's even more daft stuff to come out.

If Ireland had been a person, Mr or Mrs Ireland would have had an OK job, paid their taxes, but maxed the credit cards month after month with the banks OK. Now the bills come in, they can't pay it off in one lump, but will probably be able to pay over a decade and manage the debt. Mr or Mrs Greece would be someone on welfare with the odd nixer, never paying any tax that got a really good credit rating with the help of a hooky accountant and a stupid bank manager who then took out two mortgages on one house and used many credit cards to bounce the debt back and forth. NOw the bills come in they've no hope of ever paying back the debt. I really can't see how they can get out of this mess. Not without taking down the Eurozone with them. Directly too, never mind the other shaky economies catching the Athens flu from them. It's quite worrying. What's also worrying is the political situation in Greece.

Wertz · 02-11-2011 03:26PM

blorg wrote: »

The article specifically claims there are more Porsche Cayennes registered there than people declaring income over €50,000, not Porsches in general. As the Cayenne was introduced in 2002 it would be difficult for Greece to have many 15-20 year old ones! The ratio is out by a factor of over 100; the article is just rubbish. It isn't the claim anyway but I would doubt there are 99 other Porsches to every Cayenne.

The best I can imagine is that the author they quoted was using hyperbole, and the Telegraph just took him literally. Greece of course has major problems that they need to address but the Telegraph also has its own agenda, and less than stellar journalistic standards.

I've not read the article myself but from the snippet I heard mentioned on Today programme yesterday morning, the author was referring to a specific region of Greece, that was chiefly agricultural in terms of economy. The Torygraph are a lot of things, but they're rarely inaccurate. No secret that they're euro sceptic though...

hangon · 02-11-2011 03:33PM

KerranJast wrote: »

Everyone in Greece (and to a lesser extent Ireland) benefited from deliquent Govt/Banking behaviour

Yes but who without halo's is going to say no to some euro's that the system sends their way?
don't forget the higher the wage in a Country is gets reflected in the cost of living.
so the most weakest get hit with price increases because the most corrupt do not even have to look at a price tag.
supply and demand etc.

and to say otherwise is revisionism.

5,10,15 euro of a 'fiddle' can hardly be compared to millions/billions/trillions of a fiddle by Gamblers on the markets who play Countries like retired Army Generals play Toy soldiers.
sickening to think that these people can live with themselves instead of even accepting their money back without interest.

[/QUOTE]Must read on Greek attitudes -> http://www.vanityfair.com/business/features/2010/10/greeks-bearing-bonds-201010[/QUOTE]

Vanity fair as a source,C'mon you are joking!:)

LK_Dave · 02-11-2011 03:52PM

The problems in Greece is that they are a cash based economy who don’t pay their taxes, an over bloated public sector, low retirement age and a crazy pension schemes.
I can’t for the life of me seeing them voting yes for the bailout deal. Its great they get their say but at what cost. They are due to receive €8billion in two weeks – can you really see that being handed over now?? So the government will probably run out of money by Christmas.
No ability to pay pensions and public sector workers will result in the total shutdown of the countries institutions within weeks. Food and fuel will be hoarded. The possibility of riots and criminal damage will strangle Athens where 50% of the population reside. The army and police will desert border posts offering Turkey a free run to get some payback for 1979. Greek refugees will flood Europe. With a Turkish flag flying over the Acropolis will NATO intervene to revenge an attack on one of its own? What then for the EU and the rest of Europe and the world?

Them Greeks are noting but a pack of bastards - I just paid off a large chunk of my bank loan last week. I should have spent the money on tinned food and shotgun shells.

KerranJast · 02-11-2011 03:54PM

hangon wrote: »

Yes but who without halo's is going to say no to some euro's that the system sends their way?
don't forget the higher the wage in a Country is gets reflected in the cost of living.
so the most weakest get hit with price increases because the most corrupt do not even have to look at a price tag.
supply and demand etc.

5,10,15 euro of a 'fiddle' can hardly be compared to millions/billions/trillions of a fiddle by Gamblers on the markets who play Countries like retired Army Generals play Toy soldiers.
sickening to think that these people can live with themselves instead of even accepting their money back without interest.

Must read on Greek attitudes -> http://www.vanityfair.com/business/features/2010/10/greeks-bearing-bonds-201010

Vanity fair as a source,C'mon you are joking!:)[/QUOTE]
The author of that article Michael Lewis is one of the most reputable and insightful financial authors going. He's responsible for The Big Short, Moneyball and The Blind Side amongst others.

Also Vanity Fair is regarded as having some of the best feature articles in US print now. I know all that most Irish people know it for it controversial photospreads but they've some of the best contributors in the business.

amacachi · 02-11-2011 03:59PM

mathie wrote: »

+1

In Greece the banks didn't bust the country. The country bust the banks.

As I keep saying, the only "austerity" in Greece is them balancing their books. They're protesting against not ripping every other country off. It's disgusting as far as I'm concerned.

hangon · 02-11-2011 04:04PM

Wibbs wrote: »

.

I really can't see how they can get out of this mess.

Not without taking down the Eurozone with them. Directly too, never mind the other shaky economies catching the Athens flu from them.

It's quite worrying. What's also worrying is the political situation in Greece.

agree on both of these points Wibbs,i am so fed up with a slight feeling of fear since 2008 that all that is important in society is crumbling,afraid to switch on the News each morning for fear of what might be next.
it is like a cancer of our morale.

blorg · 02-11-2011 04:23PM

Wertz wrote: »

I've not read the article myself but from the snippet I heard mentioned on Today programme yesterday morning, the author was referring to a specific region of Greece, that was chiefly agricultural in terms of economy. The Torygraph are a lot of things, but they're rarely inaccurate. No secret that they're euro sceptic though...

It's not a long piece. Here is their direct quote from the academic in question:

“A couple of years ago, there were more Cayennes
circulating in Greece than individuals who declared and
paid taxes on an annual income of more than 50,000
euros.”

They then run with that, it is repeated in the headline and several other places in the article. It is just straight out a lie. It is important to get this sort of thing right; as others have said there is plenty of other stuff to criticise without resorting to making things up.

there are more Porsches in Greece than taxpayers declaring 50,000 euro incomes

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