No DARTs between Pearse & Dun Laoghaire for a number of days

AlekSmart · 30-10-2011 12:59AM

the groutch wrote: »

is that **** really still going on?

Yes Groutch,that **** is still going on.

I can personally vouch for that.

Attempting to persuade passengers to move down along the Bus or to go upstairs is usually fraught with danger.

Personally,I tend to do my damndest to ensure people do not clamp themselves onto the luggage-pen rail thus forcing all other passengers to clamber over them when entering or leaving.

However this group of people tend to be almost immune to any ordinary communication methods and usually need a touch more "robust" handling to convince them of the benefits inherent in ensuring that each bus carries as many people as possible.

It's one of the reasons why I cannot wait for the return of Dual-Door operation as it remains the only way of educating a sizable rump of Bus users.....:)

Cookie_Monster · 30-10-2011 02:24AM

AlekSmart wrote: »

It's one of the reasons why I cannot wait for the return of Dual-Door operation as it remains the only way of educating a sizable rump of Bus users.....:)

Is that actually going to happen or is it just on your wish list?

murphaph · 30-10-2011 12:27PM

AlekSmart wrote: »

It's one of the reasons why I cannot wait for the return of Dual-Door operation as it remains the only way of educating a sizable rump of Bus users.....:)

Also highly interested to know if this is going to be policy?

The whole singly door business is one of the most insane things in relation to Irish public transport. In a city that looks like it will remain more dependent on buses than should be the case, the bus network should be given every advantage possible.

AlekSmart · 30-10-2011 01:18PM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Is that actually going to happen or is it just on your wish list?

Cookie,the situation as I currently understand it is that from here forward,as the contracting authority the NTA now have complete control over infrastructure specification.

With that in mind,it appears the NTA have decided upon a standard specification for Bus operation in Dublin,which ALL operators will have to meet.

The situation as currently envisaged is for 11.3 mtr Tri-Axle double deck vehicles (Essentially similar to the current VT class) but with Double Doors and Two Wheelchair spaces.

There is also a "standard" double-axle specification which calls for a Double-Door,but with a single wheelchair space.

There appears to be a long awaited recognition that Dublin has a major problem with dwell-time at Bus-Stops,with passenger throughput being far below other Capital's systems.

The specification change has been decided upon in anticipation of a significant move to the LEAP card with NO tag-off,so therefore it can be asumed that a Flat-Fare structure of some level is on the way.

AS yet however,I have no information as to whether the NTA have assessed the situation regarding roadside infrastructure,particularly in the City-Centre as an 11.3 Mtr Dual-Door vehicle operating Safely will require somewhat more complete access and egress to/from BusStops than is currently provided.

In the immediate term,this specific item may prove the most problematical to address,unless the NTA has decided to end the ceasless Buck-Pasing in relation to the implementation of Road Traffic Act requirements regarding bus-stops.

There is absolutely NO sense in ordering another 40 Full Length Tri-Axle high-capacity vehicles and then simply attempting to crudely stuff them into our existing infrastructure,that approach will Fail.

If however,the NTA,DCC and the Garda authorities can come up with a co-ordinated and high-visibility approach to the design and operation of Bus-Stops then maybe,just maybe we may see REAL progress...If not,then its a BIG waste of resources,Full Stop !

foggy_lad · 30-10-2011 01:53PM

Another point worth noting is that the centre doors are more than useless unless they are directly in the path of passengers coming down the stairs who will always go for the front doors if they see no other option directly ahead of them, so the actual positioning of the doors/stairs on any new busses is very important.

murphaph · 30-10-2011 03:05PM

foggy_lad wrote: »

Another point worth noting is that the centre doors are more than useless unless they are directly in the path of passengers coming down the stairs who will always go for the front doors if they see no other option directly ahead of them, so the actual positioning of the doors/stairs on any new busses is very important.

You're right there foggy lad but (sorry if it's getting boring) I reckon the Berliners came up with the best deouble decker layout many years back.

tri-axle, 3 doors, 2 staircases.

Front door for embarkation only, stairs immediately behind driver's partition almost invites one up. Centre doors allow buggys and wheelchair pax to embark and park immediately opposite. Allows them disembark just as easily.

Rear staircase right at the back of the bus intended for disembarkation only directly through rearmost door which is directly opposite the bottom of the staircase.

The "new" London routemaster "clones" are really clones of Berlin's double deckers.

Two pages of pics.

bk · 30-10-2011 03:42PM

murphaph wrote: »

You're right there foggy lad but (sorry if it's getting boring) I reckon the Berliners came up with the best deouble decker layout many years back.

I really like the glass staircases of the new London Routemasters, but you are correct, other then this the Berlin buses look by far the best thought out design.

Pity the NTA don't just specificy a variant of this design.

Actually thinking about it a little, having the front staircase facing the middle door is probably better then the front door. With flat fare you want most people entering though the middle door and going straight up the stairs. The front door should only be used by cash customers, who need to talk to the driver, etc.

Also the advantage of the rare facing stairs is that it empties out onto the big wheel chair area in the middle, so people coming down the front stairs can wait in this area to exit the bus rather then be stuck on the stairs as people currently tend to be.

It would be interesting to trial both designs (front or rare facing stairs) to see which works more efficiently.

As you say, it looks like Dublin public transport is going to continue to be dominated by bus transport so it is very important we make the absolute best use of it (flat fares, leap smart cards, RTPI, on bus stop displays and announcements, tri door, tri axle buses, network direct improvements, more QBC's, bus ways, bus gates, better bus lane enforcement, better control of taxi drivers, remove bottle knecks like the cat and cage, etc.).

CatFromHue · 30-10-2011 05:29PM

It'll be interesting to see how this affects car traffic at the Merrion gates.

murphaph · 30-10-2011 05:36PM

CatFromHue wrote: »

It'll be interesting to see how this affects car traffic at the Merrion gates.

Should have been grade separated years ago. It's difficult but far from impossible.

thomasj · 30-10-2011 08:28PM

I went to get a train at clonsilla. There were no notices of disruption. No mention of maynooth or m3 parkway trains only going to connolly or not stopping at drumcondra or that northside darts were only going from clontarf or that southside darts were only going from sydney parade.

On the train the automatic announcements were saying pearse at broombridge the driver announced the next and final stop was to Connolly

Really badly managed as usual!

zagmund · 30-10-2011 11:17PM

This doesn't make any sense to me.

A pair of points crossing over doesn't require that much space. All that is needed is a set so that every second train approaching Lansdowne from the south can swap and arrive at the southbound platform the train standing at the northbound platform needs another set so that it can cross over onto the southbound tracks. No running around, no accommodating certain train lengths, just running over the points, changing tracks, done.

And as for the 'off chance' thing - well, it's not like outages are rare on the section of track between the city centre & Blackrock. There have been quite a few instances over the last 5 years in my recollection.

z

Losty Dublin wrote: »

It's a very short section of track to fit in a crossover and ample turnback space to accommodate an 8 car DART or DMU set. There is barely half a mile between Lansdowne and Sandymount so at least 200 metres beyond each station is required with a level crossing in the middle of it to complicate matters. It can be done but it's awkward and expensive to anticipate the off chance of an act of God.

zagmund · 30-10-2011 11:19PM

and before someone says "ah, but they didn't know the problem was going to be at Lansdowne", the point is that the lack of a set of points from there out to Dun Laoghaire means that it doesn't really matter where along the line the problem was.

Or Sandymount, or wherever you want.

z

Losty Dublin · 31-10-2011 12:49AM

It's not that the points that take up space, it's the length of track after same that is needed for a train to clear the points. A 8 car set is 160 metres long so at least that distance beyond any set of points plus allowance for braking distance for every set of points. Also, given that a double set would be needed for a double line more distance again will be needed

In any case, points wouldn't have sorted out the current curtailment at Lansdowne as the station is located on the bridge that is causing the current problems.

zagmund wrote: »

This doesn't make any sense to me.

A pair of points crossing over doesn't require that much space. All that is needed is a set so that every second train approaching Lansdowne from the south can swap and arrive at the southbound platform the train standing at the northbound platform needs another set so that it can cross over onto the southbound tracks. No running around, no accommodating certain train lengths, just running over the points, changing tracks, done.

And as for the 'off chance' thing - well, it's not like outages are rare on the section of track between the city centre & Blackrock. There have been quite a few instances over the last 5 years in my recollection.

z

Cookie_Monster · 31-10-2011 07:59AM

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Also, given that a double set would be needed for a double line more distance again will be needed

why would that be the case? Something like this would mean you would not need the double distance wouldn't it?

Losty Dublin · 31-10-2011 01:04PM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

why would that be the case? Something like this would mean you would not need the double distance wouldn't it?

Run around length either side of points is needed.

The one in the photo allows access from one direction only so it would need a second set down track

Edit, iphone pictures just are not clear enough, I can see it better now and it is double entry; apologies.

dowlingm · 31-10-2011 06:16PM

murphaph wrote: »

Should have been grade separated years ago. It's difficult but far from impossible.

Bit of land reclamation south of Merrion Gates, run the road outside the rail and inside the seawall, pop the road over the rail and reconnect to Merrion Road/Rock Road at Trimleston Avenue, then close Merrion Gates level crossing.

Congestion caused by rail movement eliminated, the railway line gets a bit more flood protection by a road/seawall in the way and all you need is the dirt and rock from the Interconnector tunnel...

Oh sh!t I knew there was a catch

:D:D:D

LXFlyer · 31-10-2011 08:57PM

zagmund wrote: »

This doesn't make any sense to me.

A pair of points crossing over doesn't require that much space. All that is needed is a set so that every second train approaching Lansdowne from the south can swap and arrive at the southbound platform the train standing at the northbound platform needs another set so that it can cross over onto the southbound tracks. No running around, no accommodating certain train lengths, just running over the points, changing tracks, done.

And as for the 'off chance' thing - well, it's not like outages are rare on the section of track between the city centre & Blackrock. There have been quite a few instances over the last 5 years in my recollection.

z

Frankly all that is needed is to restore the two crossovers south of Merrion Gates that were removed some time ago but not reinstated due to a slightly rotund gentleman refusing the engineers permission to have a weekend possession to reinstate them.

However you can't simply magic a set of points out of thin air - they have to be constructed separately and then installed. It does require a bit of planning and time.

Keary1979 · 31-10-2011 09:07PM

its got nothing to do with the tracks the disruption is due to one of the pillars and the underneath the dart station in lansdowne its safety
reasons..

dowlingm · 31-10-2011 09:58PM

How are units south of Sydney Parade being serviced/fuelled?

LXFlyer · 31-10-2011 10:22PM

Keary1979 wrote: »

its got nothing to do with the tracks the disruption is due to one of the pillars and the underneath the dart station in lansdowne its safety
reasons..

I wasn't saying it was. I'm fully aware of why the line is closed.

My comments were on the poor frequency south of the closed section. What I was saying is the cause of the 30-minute frequency is the lack of any crossover north of Dun Laoghaire. People were talking about putting in crossovers closer to Lansdowne Road.

What I am saying is that if the crossings at Merrion were still there a 15 minute frequency service could have operated south of Sydney Parade.

LXFlyer · 31-10-2011 10:24PM

dowlingm wrote: »

How are units south of Sydney Parade being serviced/fuelled?

Fuel trucks at Rosslare refuel the trains.

Presumably toilet tanks are being discharged there also.

Cookie_Monster · 31-10-2011 10:34PM

lxflyer wrote: »

Normal fuel trucks.

what does an electricity tanker look like?

Losty Dublin · 01-11-2011 11:30AM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

what does an electricity tanker look like?

Like this

zagmund · 01-11-2011 05:01PM

I wasn't talking about just magicking up a pair of points to address this issue specifically - I was talking about the lack of foresight involved in not having provision a situation like this.

As referenced above, replacing the points at Merrion would have been a start.

z

patrickbrophy18 · 02-11-2011 10:47PM

This ordeal seems to have lead to a jump in use of the number 8 bus as I was on it today and yesterday. By the time it got to southern end of Upper Glenageary Road, there were at least 10 people on it. Nevertheless, it will probably revert back to a ghost loading when DARTs return to normal. We'll wait and see. This could probably be the promotion and big break the number 8 bus has long waited for. A similar move occurred when the Malahide Viaduct collapsed where people continued using the bus despite the restoration of the Northern Commuter and DART service.

brokenhinge · 05-11-2011 01:46AM

Absolute nightmare getting home this evening-forgot about the match-waited about an hour at Sydney Parade as bus after bus whizzed past full to the brim. They were going at the same frequency as they were scheduled to, clearly didn't put any extra on for the match.

Eventually gave up-got a DART and then walked the rest.

Cathaoirleach · 05-11-2011 11:34AM

Got the 12:40 DART from Bray yesterday. There was a French couple on the train so I though it would be interesting to see this from a tourist's perspective.

At Booterstown, the driver announced that a shuttle bus service would take us to Pearse Station, even though the shuttle bus doesn't run at that time.

No shuttle bus outside station, no signage, no staff. Walked up to the main road - still no signage. There are three bus stops in view. Which one do we take? What direction? We'll have to take a gamble.

A number 4 bus arrives 15 minutes later with "Heuston Stn". Have flag it down and ask the driver if it goes to Pearse Station. It does.

Bus arrives at Pearse Station but there is no announcment from the driver. I have to let the French couple know that this is where to get off.

Nothing short of embarrassing. :rolleyes:

Cookie_Monster · 05-11-2011 11:42AM

Cathaoirleach wrote: »

Got the 12:40 DART from Bray yesterday. There was a French couple on the train so I though it would be interesting to see this from a tourist's perspective.

At Booterstown, the driver announced that a shuttle bus service would take us to Pearse Station, even though the shuttle bus doesn't run at that time.

No shuttle bus outside station, no signage, no staff. Walked up to the main road - still no signage. There are three bus stops in view. Which one do we take? What direction? We'll have to take a gamble.

A number 4 bus arrives 15 minutes later with "Heuston Stn". Have flag it down and ask the driver if it goes to Pearse Station. It does.

Bus arrives at Pearse Station but there is no announcment from the driver. I have to let the French couple know that this is where to get off.

Nothing short of embarrassing. :rolleyes:

Top class integrated, informative PT alright :rolleyes:

markpb · 05-11-2011 12:02PM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Top class integrated, informative PT alright :rolleyes:

About what you'd expect. Don't worry though - somewhere next year, some lucky station master will win a prize for the best hanging baskets and floral display.

foggy_lad · 05-11-2011 12:14PM

markpb wrote: »

About what you'd expect. Don't worry though - somewhere next year, some lucky station master will win a prize for the best hanging baskets and floral display.

For a station with several employees but only one or two trains a day:D

No DARTs between Pearse & Dun Laoghaire for a number of days

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