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British poppy: should the Irish commemorate people who fought for the British Empire?

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Comments

  • #362
    Madam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,501 ✭✭✭Madam


    No (I'm Irish)
    seagull wrote: »
    Why do so many people insist that the poppy is purely a British symbol? It's used in many countries that were involved in both world wars. Are you opposed to all the Australians, Canadians, South Africans, New Zealanders, Indians, Americans and others who are happy to wear the poppy in memory of their war dead?

    Americans nor Indian people tend not to wear a poppy :)


  • #363
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,069 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    No (I'm Irish)
    slapbangwallop wrote: »
    what am I dealing with here? :rolleyes:

    Yes, I have already said that the Lily is loaded, but so is the Poppy!

    The Poppy implies support for the British Army today, it implies a Unionist agenda,it implies Britishness.

    Well you say that "it implies a Unionist agenda,it implies Britishness" but then I'm not so sure that all CoI people are automatically 'Pro British', indeed many CoI people are very Nationalistic in their thinking, and yet they wear the poppy! My now deceased Uncle for example, who was honoured in "the Irish Merchant Navy", a true Nationalist if ever there was, yet he & his mates always wore the poppy, and in the coming weeks Churches up & down the length of this country (Ireland) will receive their poppy boxes in readyness for Remembrance Sunday.


  • #364
    Morlar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    LordSutch wrote: »
    ...My now deceased Uncle for example, .... & his mates always wore the poppy, and in the coming weeks Churches up & down the length of this country (Ireland) will receive their poppy boxes in readyness for Remembrance Sunday.

    You do acknowledge the difficulty many Irish people would face in honouring the British Army war dead given the abysmal track record of the British Army on this island ?

    Is it really so difficult for you to grasp the reluctance on the part of nationalists to honour a group which would include the Black and Tans, the Bloody Sunday Paras who murdered unarmed fellow Irishmen, etc.,? How do you expect nationalists to reconcile that ? Could you similarly see the unionist community someday wearing an Easter Lilly ? Do you wear an Easter Lilly ?


  • #365
    LondonIrish90
    Closed Accounts Posts: 882 ✭✭✭LondonIrish90


    No (I'm British/not Irish)
    slapbangwallop wrote: »
    Agh OK, I gotcha, you consider the ROYAL BRITISH Legion to not have a Unionist/British agenda and couldnt care less about the opinions of the University of Ulster and the Arts & Humanities Research Council back Conflict and Politics in Northern Ireland Project (CAIN).

    Logical lad!

    There is a huge amount of difference between a unionist and a british agenda, and you have only in this post entered the word british. Even then, the RBL are not interested in promoting unity, nationalism or patriotism, they are interested in promoting the plight of former soldiers and the fact that they need financial aid at times. There is a distinct difference between the two and I'm sure you know the difference. Are you saying that the head of fundraising at the british legion is plotting on how best to keep Northern Ireland british?? You are off your head if you are.

    And yes, after finding out what cain is, I will still take the line of the RBL 100% over theirs.

    Nodin will be about in a bit promoting world peace and anti britishness.


  • #366
    Leftist
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,230 ✭✭✭Leftist


    Anyone who wears an easter lilly is embarrrasing themselves.


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  • #367
    Morlar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    Leftist wrote: »
    Anyone who wears an easter lilly is embarrrasing themselves.

    How exactly do you reckon that ?


  • #368
    Leftist
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,230 ✭✭✭Leftist


    Morlar wrote: »
    How exactly do you reckon that ?
    Giving yourself away immediatly as a republican. Obviously depends on the circles you keep but imagine you're having a drink with some friends and some seamus waltzes over with an easter lilly and then starts directing convo towards 800 years and plantations, you'd think he was a boring clown.

    That's what you expect from armchair republicans and wearing an easter lilly just screams a.c.r.

    Also it's very anglo, using a lilly in place of a poppy.


  • #369
    Morlar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    Leftist wrote: »
    Giving yourself away immediatly as a republican. Obviously depends on the circles you keep but imagine you're having a drink with some friends and some seamus waltzes over with an easter lilly and then starts directing convo towards 800 years and plantations, you'd think he was a boring clown.

    That's what you expect from armchair republicans and wearing an easter lilly just screams a.c.r.

    Also it's very anglo, using a lilly in place of a poppy.

    I am so glad I asked. I'll be sure to know for next time.


  • #370
    Leftist
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,230 ✭✭✭Leftist


    Oh no, you wear one? :o
    soz. Do you carry an phoblacht about with you? back pocket jobbie?


  • #371
    Notorious97
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,479 ✭✭✭Notorious97


    Leftist wrote: »
    Giving yourself away immediatly as a republican. Obviously depends on the circles you keep but imagine you're having a drink with some friends and some seamus waltzes over with an easter lilly and then starts directing convo towards 800 years and plantations, you'd think he was a boring clown.

    That's what you expect from armchair republicans and wearing an easter lilly just screams a.c.r.

    Also it's very anglo, using a lilly in place of a poppy.

    *hands you a massive spoon to continue stirring the sh*t*

    Fair play on a narrow minded post, congrats!


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  • #372
    Leftist
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,230 ✭✭✭Leftist


    Notorious97 wrote: »
    *hands you a massive spoon to continue stirring the sh*t*

    Fair play on a narrow minded post, congrats!
    Another one? :)

    Seriously I never seen anyone wear them.


  • #373
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Leftist wrote: »
    Another one? :)

    Seriously I never seen anyone wear them.

    Then why are you saying
    "Obviously depends on the circles you keep but imagine you're having a drink with some friends and some seamus waltzes over with an easter lilly and then starts directing convo towards 800 years and plantations, you'd think he was a boring clown.

    That's what you expect from armchair republicans and wearing an easter lilly just screams a.c.r. "
    ?

    Is it based on a vivid dream?


  • #374
    Tiocfaidh Armani
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,335 ✭✭✭Tiocfaidh Armani


    Leftist wrote: »
    Giving yourself away immediatly as a republican. Obviously depends on the circles you keep but imagine you're having a drink with some friends and some seamus waltzes over with an easter lilly and then starts directing convo towards 800 years and plantations, you'd think he was a boring clown.

    That's what you expect from armchair republicans and wearing an easter lilly just screams a.c.r.

    Also it's very anglo, using a lilly in place of a poppy.

    Okay so it's okay to wear a poppy to commemorate the British Army and their various imperialist jaunts around the world such as Palestine, Kenya and India, but don't wear a lily to commemorate the 1916 Rising:D Oh jeez and this fella claims to be a 'lefty'. Such a confused wee lamb:D


  • #375
    SWL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 574 ✭✭✭SWL


    Leftist wrote: »
    Giving yourself away immediatly as a republican. Obviously depends on the circles you keep but imagine you're having a drink with some friends and some seamus waltzes over with an easter lilly and then starts directing convo towards 800 years and plantations, you'd think he was a boring clown.

    That's what you expect from armchair republicans and wearing an easter lilly just screams a.c.r.

    Also it's very anglo, using a lilly in place of a poppy.


    You should be embarrassed showing your lack of knowledge for Irish history and ashamed for your lack of empathy towards your fellow countrymen


  • #376
    MysticalRain
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭MysticalRain


    I have no strong opinion about people wearing the poppy. But I can't believe some Irish people can be so against British imperialism, and yet still live in Britain and pay taxes to fund wars they disagree with.


  • #377
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    LoL at the "Lilly Fascism"!


  • #378
    Morlar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    LoL at the "Lilly Fascism"!

    Poppycock.


  • #379
    SWL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 574 ✭✭✭SWL


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    LoL at the "Lilly Fascism"!

    Laugh away you’re just laughing at your own ignorance. Another fine example of the British education system.


  • #380
    Batsy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭Batsy


    No (I'm British/not Irish)
    Dionysus wrote: »

    This thread is dedicated to Fratton Fred (whose post today inspired it), Lord Sutch, Batsy and some of our other British-born posters who expect Irish people to accept their political symbols without question and get rather defensive when they don't.

    The British posters would just like the Paddies to stop poking their noses into other people's business and whinge about things which don't concern them.

    The poppy is used to commemorate the heroic war dead not just in Britain but throughout the Commonwealth and wearing one symbolises your respect and gratitude for the thousands upon thousands of brave men who have laid down their lives fighting for their nation.

    If the Irish don't want to wear a poppy then fair enough. It doesn't affect me. But what gets on my irk are the Irish numpties who go onto discussion forums to whinge and moan about people in other countries wearing poppies.


  • #381
    4leto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,940 ✭✭✭4leto


    Besides wasn't it our empire as well, from the act of union weren't we politically part of Great Britain, yes the Irish guards put down natives with distinction all over the world. We should be proud of being part of the conquerors of the greatest empire the world has ever seen.


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  • #382
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    SWL wrote: »
    Laugh away you’re just laughing at your own ignorance. Another fine example of the British education system.

    Ok then

    Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
    Lololololololololololololo
    Rofl
    Roflmfao


    That's better.


  • #383
    Morlar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    Batsy wrote: »
    The British posters would just like the Paddies to stop poking their noses into other people's business and whinge about things which don't concern them.

    You are wrong. Btw this thread is called :

    British poppy: should the Irish commemorate people who fought for the British Empire?


  • #384
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Tiocfaidh Armani wrote: »
    Okay so it's okay to wear a poppy to commemorate the British Army and their various imperialist jaunts around the world such as Palestine, Kenya and India, but don't wear a lily to commemorate the 1916 Rising:D Oh jeez and this fella claims to be a 'lefty'. Such a confused wee lamb:D

    Its not commemorating the army, it is commemorating the individuals.

    The same ones who pulled Irish people out of Linya. The same ones that escort suspect planes through Irish air space at the request of the Irish government. The same ones that carry oit search and rescue missions in Ireland, the same one that are out on Afghanistan at the request of NATO, doing a job that quite frankly the Irish should be helping with.

    The same guys that got Saddam out of Kuwait (where were the Irish) and helped keep the peace in Bosnia.

    To be honest, the morally superior pontificators on here would have a lot more credibility if they tried to persuade their government to step up to the plate a bit more in terms of global commitment.

    Easier though to sit behind a PC and preach bollox.


  • #385
    RepublicanEagle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 399 ✭✭RepublicanEagle


    No (I'm Irish)
    Men from all over Ireland fought for the British Army just to put food on the table for their families, to fight for Ireland because they believed it would help achieve Home Rule, and because they believed it was the war to end wars.

    Some would say it was in vain, but they died for a noble cause that they believed in.

    Some would not be commemerating the British Empire, but we should certainly commemmerate all those brave souls who shed their blood for what they believed in.

    I would gladly wear the poppy in memory, and for those who oppose it, you need to open your eyes.

    It's not just British.


  • #386
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,069 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    No (I'm Irish)
    I agree with all of the above, but just to add 'none of us commerate the British Empire', the poppy is not about Empire.
    The whole idea of the poppy is to commerate the dead who fell in the poppy fields, Irish, British, American, Canadian, & German.


  • #387
    SWL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 574 ✭✭✭SWL


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Its not commemorating the army, it is commemorating the individuals.

    The same ones who pulled Irish people out of Linya. The same ones that escort suspect planes through Irish air space at the request of the Irish government. The same ones that carry oit search and rescue missions in Ireland, the same one that are out on Afghanistan at the request of NATO, doing a job that quite frankly the Irish should be helping with.

    The same guys that got Saddam out of Kuwait (where were the Irish) and helped keep the peace in Bosnia.

    To be honest, the morally superior pontificators on here would have a lot more credibility if they tried to persuade their government to step up to the plate a bit more in terms of global commitment.

    Easier though to sit behind a PC and preach bollox.

    Firstly the Easter lily which you were happy to ridicule commemorates the individuals and not the "force" who opposed a foreign force occupying their Country. A political ideology that will or never would occur in Britain.

    The rest of your post is simply propaganda and waffle; you need to stop using Sky news as a source of information.

    Btw members of the Irish Army are in Afghanistan have been for a couple years teaching the Brits and the US how to disarm road side bombs.

    Edit:
    The search and rescue example is also false both the UK and Irelands zones for rescue overlap, so when a British rescue crew rescue someone on a boat usually the first stop is Ireland to drop off the causality and collect fuel there are maps available on the internet. I am not going to post them as it’s off topic.

    Ireland got its own citizens out of Libya some went with the RAF because the Irish could not get permission to land. I am pretty sure UK and other European citizens were on board the Irish jet.

    Sadam eviction from Kuwait had nothing to do with the UK humanitarian relief or as you put it stepping up to the plate. Everyone was there for oil simple as that.

    Does “persuading government s to step up to the place in terms of Global commitment” include starting three wars in three different countries in less than 10 years all in the name of defeating terrorism? Only to find that the terrorist are more likely to be British citizens living in the UK. 7/7 is a chilling example.


  • #388
    Morlar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    LordSutch wrote: »
    I agree with all of the above, but just to add 'none of us commerate the British Empire'. The whole idea of the poppy is to commerate the dead who fell in the poppy fields.

    That is why the symbol was chosen.

    The poppy however, as you know, is not worn exclusively to honour the dead of WWI.


  • #389
    Jimoslimos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,930 ✭✭✭Jimoslimos


    MysticalRain wrote: »
    I have no strong opinion about people wearing the poppy. But I can't believe some Irish people can be so against British imperialism, and yet still live in Britain and pay taxes to fund wars they disagree with.
    I've lived in Britain before, paid taxes and the rest, and will probably do so again in the near future. There's much about the country I admire and think Ireland could take a leaf from....however that doesn't mean that I have to blindly agree with every aspect of their foreign policy, or that their armed forces are always above reproach.

    For the record I wear neither poppy nor lily, even if I discovered a great-grandfather or relative who fought as a 1916 freedom fighter or with the British in WWI I wouldn't be inclined to, nor would I think any less of them.

    Like it or not for many on this island the poppy has political British Unionist symbolism. Take the Irish flag for example, it consists of three colours, one of which, orange, supposedly represents the protestant plantation influence on our country - I don't see or expect unionists up the north to embrace this symbol.


  • #390
    MysticalRain
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭MysticalRain


    Jimoslimos wrote: »
    I've lived in Britain before, paid taxes and the rest, and will probably do so again in the near future. There's much about the country I admire and think Ireland could take a leaf from....however that doesn't mean that I have to blindly agree with every aspect of their foreign policy, or that their armed forces are always above reproach.

    For the record I wear neither poppy nor lily, even if I discovered a great-grandfather or relative who fought as a 1916 freedom fighter or with the British in WWI I wouldn't be inclined to, nor would I think any less of them.

    Like it or not for many on this island the poppy has political British Unionist symbolism. Take the Irish flag for example, it consists of three colours, one of which, orange, supposedly represents the protestant plantation influence on our country - I don't see or expect unionists up the north to embrace this symbol.

    That's not radically different from my own view. I guess it's more of an issue for the people who are 100% against what the British government and it's military institutions stand for.


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  • #391
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,069 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    No (I'm Irish)
    Morlar wrote: »
    The poppy however, as you know, is not worn exclusively to honour the dead of WWI.

    Thats quite correct, the poppy was 'as you know' originally worn to commerate the dead from the Great War, and since then it has come to be a symbol for all war dead, and not just those who fell on the poppy fields.


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