Racism - Mod Note on 1st Post - Read before posting.

Blatter · 19-10-2011 12:14AM

Mr Alan wrote: »

it's not quite that simple, those charges had already been ruined when the Utd coaching staffed contradicted eachother about the remarks. The racial angle was a sinking ship.

However, when the fracas was being reported in the media in the weeks after including the racial angle, he never made any public statement to stop this guy being tarred with an accusation Evra KNEW wasn't true.

If Utd fans are weirdly gonna try & make Evras involvement in that incident a 'positive', it has to be pointed out that Evra allowed that bloke be tarred a racist when he knew it wasn't true.

Nope. Evra just said he didn't hear the racist abuse, it doesn't mean it never happened. It doesn't confirm that the United staff lied.

If the United staff were going to fabricate claims of racist abuse towards Evra, don't you think they would have let Evra in on it, nah?

Blatter · 19-10-2011 12:17AM

Paparazzo wrote: »

I think it's something along the lines of:
If you're a liverpool fan, Evra is making false allegations and should be punished.
If you're a united fan, suarez is racist.

From football 365:

It's not that way at all. Well it hasn't been on here as far as I can see.

I've seen plenty call Evra a liar, but very few(nobody?) call Suarez a racist.

Melion · 19-10-2011 12:18AM

michael999999 wrote: »

I still cant understand how that was a free

K-9 · 19-10-2011 12:25AM

flahavaj wrote: »

Then it appears you all agree that Suarez should very easily be able to use video evidence to show that anyting he said on camera was not racist in nature.

Wtf?

Mr Alan · 19-10-2011 12:32AM

Blatter wrote: »

Nope. Evra just said he didn't hear the racist abuse, it doesn't mean it never happened. It doesn't confirm that the United staff lied.

If the United staff were going to fabricate claims of racist abuse towards Evra, don't you think they would have let Evra in on it, nah?

You may wanna read the report released by the FA's independent regulatory commission about that incident. They dismissed the accusations of racism as Utd staff were contradicting eachother in their statements. They also found it very unusual the people much better placed than the accusers to hear the abuse, didn't hear anything (including Evra). The findings went as far as to say there was sufficient reason to believe they were fabricated afaik.

This is a typical example of why the nature of Evra's comments are so serious, this is a case where the racism charges were basically laughed out of it & the accuser was found to be telling porkies. Yet I bet the majority of Utd fans & probably other fans, still think it was a racial incident.

This is why the severity of Evras comments cannot be understated or excused if it turns out there is nothing to back them up.

K-9 · 19-10-2011 12:33AM

Melion wrote: »

I still cant understand how that was a free

Adam the mad ba*tard, headbutting Suarez.

I thought that free was soft, a yellow very harsh, never mind the corner that never was that led to the goal.

5starpool · 19-10-2011 12:38AM

According to this thread, it seems it's not ok to say that Evra is a liar if no proof is found for his claims, yet it seems to be fine to say that Evra can't be making it up, thus meaning Suarez is a liar for denying it.

Wonderful.

Jesus Wept · 19-10-2011 12:41AM

Melion wrote: »

I still cant understand how that was a free

He can go and sh1te after that.

Blatter · 19-10-2011 12:49AM

Mr Alan wrote: »

You may wanna read the report released by the FA's independent regulatory commission about that incident. They dismissed the accusations of racism as Utd staff were contradicting eachother in their statements. They also found it very unusual the people much better placed than the accusers to hear the abuse, didn't hear anything (including Evra). The findings went as far as to say there was sufficient reason to believe they were fabricated afaik.

This is a typical example of why the nature of Evra's comments are so serious, this is a case where the racism charges were basically laughed out of it & the accuser was found to be telling porkies. Yet I bet the majority of Utd fans & probably other fans, still think it was a racial incident.

This is why the severity of Evras comments cannot be understated or excused if it turns out there is nothing to back them up.

If they believed the claims were fabricated then why didn't they bring relevant charges against Mike Phelan and the United staff?

And I have read the FA's report on the issue. I've also read this article which reasons why the FA's report was flawed. Interesting read actually.

You still have no idea whether a racial incident took place at Stamford Bridge or not and nor do the FA.

Blatter · 19-10-2011 12:53AM

5starpool wrote: »

According to this thread, it seems it's not ok to say that Evra is a liar if no proof is found for his claims, yet it seems to be fine to say that Evra can't be making it up, thus meaning Suarez is a liar for denying it.

Wonderful.

How many times and by who has it actually been said that 'Evra can't be making it up'.

Quotes please.

5starpool · 19-10-2011 01:14AM

flahavaj wrote: »

I'm merely saying that Evra's mentioning of the camera make little or no sense if he's lying, none at all

flahavaj wrote: »

But in this case, the allegation came out of the blue and there's no thuggush behaviour to excuse or justify, and the accuser follows it up by appearing certain that the abuse will be caught on camera. These to me are extraordinary and inexplicable actions to take if the entire thing is indeed fabricated. It makes no sense at all.

Blatter wrote: »

How many times and by who has it actually been said that 'Evra can't be making it up'.

Quotes please.

I'm not going to count them, but the 2 quotes above clearly states that it makes no sense for Evra to lie in this situation. I only read the last 100 or so posts, and I'll be damned if I'm going to read the rest of the thread.

You also thanked the first post, so to me, you agree with it. Don't use semantics to pretend they are different, because that is what is said.

Blatter · 19-10-2011 01:24AM

5starpool wrote: »

I'm not going to count them, but the 2 quotes above clearly states that it makes no sense for Evra to lie in this situation. I only read the last 100 or so posts, and I'll be damned if I'm going to read the rest of the thread.

You also thanked the first post, so to me, you agree with it. Don't use semantics to pretend they are different, because that is what is said.

What's been said above is, it makes no sense for Evra to mention camera evidence if he was fabricating the claims in the first place. Which is true, are you disputing that?

You said;

5starpool wrote: »

yet it seems to be fine to say that Evra can't be making it up, thus meaning Suarez is a liar for denying it.

Wonderful.

flahavaj or I never said Evra can't be lying, therefore we didn't basically say Suarez is definitely a liar for denying it.

5starpool · 19-10-2011 01:27AM

Blatter wrote: »

What's been said above is, it makes no sense for Evra to mention camera evidence if he was fabricating the claims in the first place. Which is true, are you disputing that?

You said;

flahavaj or I never said Evra can't be lying, therefore we didn't basically say Suarez is definitely a liar for denying it.

Semantics. This squirming shít is why discussion in this thread is pointless.

Blatter · 19-10-2011 01:32AM

5starpool wrote: »

Semantics. This squirming shít is why discussion in this thread is pointless.

No it's not semantics, nor is it squirming.

All that was said that it makes no sense for Evra to mention camera evidence if he was fabricating the claims in the first place.

Are you not allowed make that point, without saying that Evra can't be making it up and Suarez is definitely a racist?

K-9 · 19-10-2011 01:37AM

Blatter wrote: »

All that was said that it makes no sense for Evra to mention camera evidence if he was fabricating the claims in the first place.

True and if said camera evidence, you specifically mention doesn't turn up, your argument starts losing credibility.

J. Marston · 19-10-2011 02:29AM

Melion wrote: »

I still cant understand how that was a free

It's a stupid angle to judge it from. The Sky camera angle from the front clearly shows Suarez kicking him on the knee, it's clear as day.

DOC09UNAM · 19-10-2011 02:36AM

Melion wrote: »

michael999999 wrote: »

I still cant understand how that was a free

Suarez never challenged the decision, because he clearly kicked him.

K-9 · 19-10-2011 02:49AM

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

Suarez never challenged the decision, because he clearly kicked him.

Meh, the French surrendered as usual.

smokedeels · 19-10-2011 02:52AM

K-9 wrote: »

Meh, the French surrendered as usual.

Do you really think stereotyping is a good idea in this thread?

K-9 · 19-10-2011 03:00AM

smokedeels wrote: »

Do you really think stereotyping is a good idea in this thread?

I know, there have been so many great thinkers and ideas in this thread, it brings the tone down.

_blank_ · 19-10-2011 08:54AM

K-9 wrote: »

I know, there have been so many great thinkers and ideas in this thread, it brings the tone down.

Traveller-ist!!

Melion · 19-10-2011 09:32AM

J. Marston wrote: »

It's a stupid angle to judge it from. The Sky camera angle from the front clearly shows Suarez kicking him on the knee, it's clear as day.

Sorry to call bullshít but from that angle it looks as though Suarez' feet never leave the the ground never mind kicking Evra on the knee

Mr Alan · 19-10-2011 09:42AM

Suarez did make contact with Evra's knee (barely), Evra made a meal of it (in the same way Suarez probably would have), but it was a free from memory.

Kerrydude1981 · 19-10-2011 10:26AM

Both players are no angels,It showed clearly on Sky that Saurez did make contact,probably more contact then Rio did on Adam,but as we all know just a slight touch is enough to make some of these players fall down and roll around.

homerjay2005 · 19-10-2011 10:39AM

Melion wrote: »

I still cant understand how that was a free

are you talking about the evra/suarez incident? if you are, then this video sums up you and your club.

suarez was a lucky boy he wasnt sent off, he kicked evra in the back of the knee, not only was it a free, it was a definate yellow and seen as rooney got sent off the week before for the same thing, it could and should have been a red if consistency in reffing is to be respected. but one rule for rooney, another for suarez.

but he got away with it. yet, liverpool fans are call evra a cheat and all this. the man was kicked, badly. the youtube video is laughable, i suggest you watch the replays of the tv footage and it will show a different angle.

Leiva · 19-10-2011 10:41AM

Des wrote: »

Traveller-ist!!

I'm too knacker ed to reply .

Chucky the tree · 19-10-2011 10:51AM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

are you talking about the evra/suarez incident? if you are, then this video sums up you and your club.

suarez was a lucky boy he wasnt sent off, he kicked evra in the back of the knee, not only was it a free, it was a definate yellow and seen as rooney got sent off the week before for the same thing, it could and should have been a red if consistency in reffing is to be respected. but one rule for rooney, another for suarez.

but he got away with it. yet, liverpool fans are call evra a cheat and all this. the man was kicked, badly. the youtube video is laughable, i suggest you watch the replays of the tv footage and it will show a different angle.

Never touched the back of his knee.

Benimar · 19-10-2011 11:15AM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

are you talking about the evra/suarez incident? if you are, then this video sums up you and your club.

suarez was a lucky boy he wasnt sent off, he kicked evra in the back of the knee, not only was it a free, it was a definate yellow and seen as rooney got sent off the week before for the same thing, it could and should have been a red if consistency in reffing is to be respected. but one rule for rooney, another for suarez.

but he got away with it. yet, liverpool fans are call evra a cheat and all this. the man was kicked, badly. the youtube video is laughable, i suggest you watch the replays of the tv footage and it will show a different angle.

Seriously?? There is no comparison between the two incidents. Suarez may or may not have touched Evra, but if he did it was in trying to play the ball. Rooney kicked out twice at a player.

If you really think the two incidents are the same then maybe we really do need to close all threads involving Liverpool V Man U as the level of bias (on both sides) is really staggering at this stage.

This really is a clusterf*ck of a thread.

Thanx 4 The Fish · 19-10-2011 11:38AM

Thread closed for the moment until any new information or evidence comes to light.

niallk · 19-10-2011 11:46AM

Just spent 10 mins writing this post for the Racism thread only to find it had been locked whilst I was typing. Here it is anyway:

Gonna try to look at this from a neutral point of view. I'm a United fan but not a big fan of Evra after his PS3 remark a couple of years ago.

In this case, I personally do believe Evra is telling the truth, purely on an instinctual level looking at the body language of the 2 during the game, however:
Evra should not have made this accusation, without conclusive proof.

Evra gave the interview to Canal+ right after the game and couldn't possibly have known if racial slurs were caught on tape. This does indicate that he was confident that the offences were so blatant that they had to be captured, or he may have said it to display confidence in what he knew to be a lie. Either way, it was silly to go to the press with this straight after the game.
In the likely situation that this accusation goes unproven (I say likely because it is a very hard thing to prove), Evra is guilty of slander. The onus is on the accuser to provide proof of an accusation, not the accused to prove his innocence. If a newspaper accused someone of being a racist without proof, they be sued out the eyeballs. Evra had every right to make a formal complaint against Suarez, but not to publicly accuse him.
Regards to punishment: If proven guilty, I believe Suarez should be punished to the harshest degree, as racism is disgusting and should have no place in the game or anywhere. If no proof is found, Evra can not be punished by the FA, as this would be seen to discourage further instances being reported. However, Suarez would have every right to take legal proceedings against Evra.

Racism - Mod Note on 1st Post - Read before posting.

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